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Base Jean Grey Revision

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So I believe that Jean at base returning to 4B is the correct thing.

 
Hunterzillas said:
I mean, yeah, this is basically what I was going for, but with actual feats.
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I tried to find as much as I could... There are more. And nowadays she is going to be even more powerful.

Also there is going to be a huge Phoenix revision. So even Phoenix Jean will get upgrated.
 
If base Jean is 4-B, then Storm should be too. They have shown to be equal in or match each other in power. Storm with her powers have harmed just about the same tier 4-B characters and other tier 4 consistently. So maybe they would think it is PIS like Storm. Also If Jean is 4-B, then Sue Storm should upgraded too, it was shown their power is about equal.


Also Rachel defeating Thor is capital PIS when Thor defeated Phoenix Rachel without breaking a sweat.

So Basically if Base Jean is getting this upgrade, then these ladies should get it. It is only fair.
 
Kasyacarey said:
If base Jean is 4-B, then Storm should be too. They have shown to be equal in power. Storm with her powers have harmed just about the same tier 4-B characters and other tier 4 consistently. So maybe they would think it is PIS like Storm. Also If Jean is 4-B, then Sue Storm should upgraded too, it was shown their power is about equal.
Also Rachel defeating Thor is capital PIS when Thor defeated Phoenix Rachel without breaking a sweat.
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Times change... Rachel grew stronger and Thor defeating Phoenix Rachel is PIS too since Rachel has gone against stronger opponents. Also Rachel in the new comics is stated to becoming stronger then ever before (without Phoenix)

I don't remeber Storm taking on Apocalypse or Juggernaut like Jean. And as for Jean and Susan being equal... Its not like Jean hasn't grown stronger over the Years.
 
Welp, Like who? Please do not mention the Beyonder because did not fight her at even a fraction of his powers. Don't mention Galactus too because he was starving.

She never fought Apocalypse to my memory but a lightning bolt from Storm was able to knock Juggernaut down. Also its not like Sue Storm powers haven't grown over the years either.
 
Kasyacarey said:
Welp, Like who? Please do not mention the Beyonder because did not fight her at even a fraction of his powers. Don't mention Galactus too because he was starving.
She never fought Apocalypse to my memory but a lightning bolt from Storm was able to knock Juggernaut down. Also its not like Sue Storm powers haven't grown over the years either.
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Even starving Galactus is 4A here.

I remeber Strom vs Juggernaut going like this.

Unlike Sue or Storm, Jean is an Omega Level Mutant and was been stated many times to have unlimitted potential to grow.
 
Alrighty then but He was not trying to fight her

I'm pretty sure that was Storm first ever fight and she cried the entire time. I mean like literally her first showing and she did nothing.

I'm pretty sure later on Storm actually fighting was able to keep him down with a lightning bolt. She was able to make him scream in power with her bolts at the end of the issue.

6787687687687676768


That's funny last time I check Sue is so powerful that she does not even want to expand her powers. Also Storm has been confirmed omega in comics and in an interview. As stated by Chris Clarement (marvel/X-menwriter, who also created the phoenix) Storm has the raw power to match the phoenix but has not tapped into that potential.


Either way Storm and Sue powers have shown to match Her on more than one occasion.
 
@The 2nd Existential Seed

That would be helpful.

@Kasyacarey

I have seen what Chris Claremont said but now it holds no value. Why? Because writers for years don't see Storm that way and back then Phoenix was considered Jean's Ulitmate potential but it was retconned to the all powerful Phoenix Force.

Jean has shown many times that she holds back because she is scared of what she can do when she is not in control...
 
I pretty sure Storm was able to stalemate Phoenix force Emma, tank a magical shot from being that ate thousands of dimensions, channeled and manipulated the magic from Mystic users, who are the most powerful beings in their dimension to open a portal to get to limbo to fight the World eater. The blast knock him back and harmed him. Not to mention she healed a dimesion, called on the full power of million of suns along with the power of living stars and planets. She was shown in space to fight on par with Dr. Stange, Silver Surfer, The Thing, Johnny Storm and Sue Storm against aliens that was giving them a hard time and fight a cosmic powered Gamora and that is not even all of it.

Storm has lost control once and she had nigh unlimited power comparable to the dark phoenix. She has to keep her emotion is check because her power is tied to it. Same with Sue Storm unless you want Malice to come out again.
 
We have already repeatedly talked about Storm elsewhere, and I am thoroughly sick and tired of it at this point. I would appreciate if you stop bringing up the topic. Thank you.
 
Storm did nothing to 50% Phoenix Force Emma who was fighting the Avengers...

Storm lost control in only one of Cleremonts stories which holds no value anymore since in that story as I mentioned Dark Phoenix = Jean which was retconned. 20% Phoenix Emma stomped Thor without much effort and even if taking into account that story you keep mentioning, in that Storm said that Thor could dispel the huge storm she created with a thought. Here we have a Phoenix way weaker than Dark Phoenix stomping Thor and Hulks many times.

As I said that Storm doesn't matter anymore because the power levels have changed. Apart form Doctor Strange (whose power level changes form story to story most times) and Sliver Surfer the others are reasonable since they are >= 5B.

Cosmic Gamora vs Storm was a sword fight...
 
Antvasima said:
We have already repeatedly talked about Storm elsewhere, and I am thoroughly sick and tired of it at this point. I would appreciate if you stop bringing up the topic. Thank you.
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Yes, It is not like I made millions of threads everyday. I made like 2 threads for storm each months apart because I was told by to find some more feats. If it is PIS for Storm and Sue to be higher for hurting tier 4 character consistently why would Jean get a pass?
 
Well, maybe it was other members who have repeatedly taken up the subject of Storm as well. I do not remember so well, but I am always the one who has to deal with it.

Anyway, I would prefer Matthew's input here, but do not think that Jean without the Phoenix is anywhere near 4-B, based on her measurable power displays.
 
Antvasima said:
Anyway, I would prefer Matthew's input here, but do not think that Jean without the Phoenix is anywhere near 4-B, based on her measurable power displays.
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She could hold Binary and she is comperable to Cable who is 4B...

Teen Jean with her TK and TP combined was an Pink form won against Gladiator.
 
Gladiator has a variable power level, and has lost to Cannonball.

Has it been stated that regular Jean without the Phoenix is stronger than Cable's full potential?

Was she completely Phoenix-less when fighting Binary?
 
I checked the Binary scans, and no raw power struggle took place there. Jean tried to control Binary's mind.
 
╬Ü╬ƒ╬£╬Ö╬× said:
Storm did nothing to 50% Phoenix Force Emma who was fighting the Avengers...
Storm lost control in only one of Cleremonts stories which holds no value anymore since in that story as I mentioned Dark Phoenix = Jean which was retconned. Phoenix Emma stomped Thor without much effort and even if taking into account that story you keep mentioning, in that Storm said that Thor could dispel the huge storm she created with a thought. Here we have a Phoenix way weaker than Dark Phoenix stomping Thor and Hulks many times.

As I said that Storm doesn't matter anymore because the power levels have changed. Apart form Doctor Strange (whose power level changes form story to story most times) and Sliver Surfer the others are reasonable since they are >= 5B.

Cosmic Gamora vs Storm was a sword fight...
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure I stated they stalemated as I stated.


Either She was had nigh unlimited power and was connected to the Earth itself

Phoenix Emma stomping Thor is PIS considering the fact. He fought the whole phoenix in space not a small fraction of a fraction but a whole piece.

RCO006 1475729951


and even smacked around the Phoenix Namor

if We go by your logic then everyone should get an upgrade

Okay but they are still planet level characters.

Also she fought a cosmic Gamora, who powers, strength, and speed was upgraded without getting stomped.
 
Antvasima said:
I checked the Binary scans, and no raw power struggle took place there. Jean tried to control Binary's mind.
Click to expand...
Her tk did shield her from a blast from Binary I think it was a white hole
 
>Jean being 4-B

"Eh, I guess.."

>Suddenly Storm and Sue Storm being 4-B too

"Wait, what."

>Soon everyone is 4-B.

"Please no".
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
>Jean being 4-B
"Eh, I guess.."

>Suddenly Storm and Sue Storm being 4-B too

"Wait, what."

>Soon everyone is 4-B.

"Please no".
Click to expand...
Ony Jean being 4B is the issue please...
 
@Kasyacarey

Hmm... No. Thor fighting the whole Phoenix is HUGE PIS. Emma has fought the whole avengers squad. Namor fought many of the Avengers and only Scarlet Witch had an effect on him...
 
Well, the main problem is that we have rarely seen Jean completely without the Phoenix Force.
 
Actually, we have two other females, who matched her in power and shown similar feats by hurting tier 4 characters.

It would not work like that. She can not get an upgrade to that level if the other who do the same things with their own power like her are at possibly planet level or likely planet level.
 
Antvasima said:
Gladiator has a variable power level, and has lost to Cannonball.
Has it been stated that regular Jean without the Phoenix is stronger than Cable's full potential?

Was she completely Phoenix-less when fighting Binary?
Click to expand...
Jean in the 90s was completely Phoenix-less. The Phoenix Jean returned to New X-Men title in 2003.
 
I'm pretty sure that Thor fought the Phoenix first. That would make him fightning and losting to a small fraction of already a fraction the phoenix PIS.

Last time I check Scarlet Witch only affected them because of Chaos Magic. That does mean she would win a battle.

Also Namor got taken out easily by the Avengers.

RCO011 1475729903


RCO012 1475729903
 
Well, the problem with Marvel's extremely variable power levels is that one character can be more powerful than normal in a story wherein another is far less powerful than normal, and so onwards, which makes our job of scaling them from each other extremely difficult, if they have no good measurable feats of their own.

Matthew is better than me at gauging what is appropriate for the Marvel characters though.
 
 
The point was Thor still able to hurt him. Thor was not even fightning at full power like the actual Phoenix in space. The Phoenix 5 has done nothing to be compared with Phoenix Rachel. It called the power of PIS. Thor is written down so other characters can shine.

First of all Galactus was not even trying to fight her. If she is 4-A for that, then everyone one who help stomp Phoenix Namor should be 4-B.
 
Please stop with the enormous quotes.
 
Off Topic But I think during this time Jean was WPTOC. Using the Phoenix Force was able to stop or compete the Chaos Wave in power.

RCO004 1475730126
 
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