Bartz fights a small child.

[HST_Master]

The showings are outliers though.
If he doesn’t scale physically, and we don’t consider those showings. Why would we consider those showings, only to his magic if we don’t for everything else? If we did he would be 2-A via magic but we don’t and by your own logic, we don’t. If this is Hill you need to die on, then we might as well just put him at #3

No he wouldn't. He wouldn't be 2-A via magic since it only applies to specific magic. Being able to reflect attacks from a 2-A doesn't make you 2-A, being able to seal a 2-A doesn't make you 2-A, it's like saying being able to Mind Manip someone higher than you makes you "insert tier here via mind manip" and you're essentially trying to ignore the difference between offensive and support magic and that not all of it is equal in potency. You don't have to scale physically to someone for abilities to work, that's what hax is.

Either his magic and physicals are 2-A, or neither. Choose, don’t be an idiot.

You're literally arguing a character with abilities beyond their normal statistics. Ironic.

Neither time magic or teleporting will counter those. The homing attacks will still home and the teleport is still pretty much instant. If he teleports in response, so will the summon, and so etc, etc.

Prove it beyond saying "They teleport" or "it's homing" because if they don't have a resistance they have zero answer to time magic.

That says nothing about reflect working on it.

It proves that said ability has nothing to do with magic and can still be reflected.

 

[00potato]

Yeah, but the fight is an outlier. So the 2-A reflection would also be an outlier. Why would only certain defense spell be 2-A when the others aren’t? So his feats of high power reflection is bunk. An outlier is an outlier Henry, you can’t say it is only half. So reflect is bunk and he dies.
Adeline’s stats are consistent and logical . She is 5-A, her summons and sparkler are 4-A. No outliers or inconsistency. The issue is that you use a fight you consider an outlier for his abilities when it suits you, not the idea the he has things above your his tier.

What do I have to prove? Time magic doesn’t stop the homing projectiles from homing or a teleported from teleporting. That seems self-evident.

 

[HST_Master]

Yeah, but the fight is an outlier. So the 2-A reflection would also be an outlier. Why would only certain defense spell be 2-A when the others aren’t? So his feats of high power reflection is bunk. An outlier is an outlier Henry, you can’t say it is only half. So reflect is bunk and he dies.
Adeline’s stats are consistent and logical . She is 5-A, her summons and sparkler are 4-A. No outliers or inconsistency. The issue is that you use a fight you consider an outlier for his abilities when it suits you, not the idea the he has things above your his tier.

Because Offensive abilities =/= Defensive ones. This is a blatant thing in several profiles and abilities like with Barriers and the like. So Reflect indeed works fine. Him scaling to Enuo and Exdeath is purely in regards to dealing damage and taking hits. hax has no bearing on AP or Dura.

And yet you're argument is that since his reflect can reflect a 2-A all of his abilities must be 2-A yet you seemingly ignore her 4-A dura. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

What do I have to prove? Time magic doesn’t stop the homing projectiles from homing or a teleported from teleporting. That seems self-evident.

"Time Magic doesn't stop the homing projectiles or teleportation."

Dude. Time Stop stops time. Stop is Time Magic. Slow is Time Magic. Haste is Time Magic. You're arguing that they can move through time stop/slow easily. So again where is the resistance.

 

[00potato]

What the 4-A isn’t built on an outlier though. The issue isn’t the stat itself. The issue is that the 2-A comes from an outlier fight. You are fine claiming his abilities work on the 2-A despite considering it an outlier. The difference between offense and defense doesn’t matter since the feat is an outlier. This would only work if all he did canonically in the fight was spam reflect and defense spells, so only those scaled. Can you prove that? If not then the outlier fight, is considered and outlier. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Either he is 2-A for fighting a 2-A, or the 2-A is an outlier. Why would it be an outlier for only half of his kit.
Why does her 4-A dura matter? That isn’t based on an outlier fight, which is the issue. I am not scaling half of her kit to something yet also calling it an outlier.
. You are the one who cannot have the cake here, give it to me, your cake, hand it over.

Time slow/Haste does nothing here, Magalor will appear slightly slower but still kill on contact. The sparkler stills homes and kills on contact. Time stop stalls but won’t work unless he starts with it, if he doesn’t Magalor vanishes and he can’t hurt him. Also the sparkler still homes.

 

[HST_Master]

What the 4-A isn’t built on an outlier though. The issue isn’t the stat itself. The issue is that the 2-A comes from an outlier fight. You are fine claiming his abilities work on the 2-A despite considering it an outlier. The difference between offense and defense doesn’t matter since the feat is an outlier.

Yes because abilities do not correlate to AP. You're trying to make his hax apply to his stats and it's not cutting it. Not to mention her Profile states that she can barely do damage to normal enemies yet she can tank their attacks?

This would only work if all he did canonically in the fight was spam reflect and defense spells, so only those scaled. Can you prove that? If not then the outlier fight, is considered and outlier.

This is not how outliers work in the slightest. You're essentially saying all barriers and the like that are able to take hits from a higher tier opponent means that they should scale.

You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Either he is 2-A for fighting a 2-A, or the 2-A is an outlier. Why would it be an outlier for only half of his kit.

Half of his kit? It's literally just reflect and sealing by weapons that already sealed a 2-A previously in-lore. Everything else is either offensive or Dura Negating or not enough to defend against that like along the lines of Protect or Shell or Supportive.

Time slow/Haste does nothing here, Magalor will appear slightly slower but still kill on contact. The sparkler stills homes and kills on contact.

.......Are you legit trying to argue that being slowed to a crawl is "slightly"? The Sparklers can be slowed too

Time stop stalls but won’t work unless he starts with it, if he doesn’t Magalor vanishes and he can’t hurt him. Also the sparkler still homes.

Teleportation counters alongside time stop. And again Sparkler can be stopped as well.

Because I see zero time resistance anywhere for you to say it does nothing. Please show some resistance to say that it'll be, only slightly slower or that they can just "lmao nah" it.

 

[00potato]

That is how outliers and barriers work though. If a barrier takes a hit from a higher tier opponent, the barrier scales. If Shell, his offense, dura, summons, and all other basic abilities don’t scale, why would only reflect scale to the outlier fight?
Even if the sparkler is stopped, it will still home in after time resumes. He can’t hurt magalor while he teleports since he pops into an unkown place in between. So he has to teleport, un-activate time stop, and perfectly time another one while not getting hit. Even if he does kill them, they still have revives.

How long does his time stop even last?

 

[Lou_change]

You still need a CRT it says "Bartz erects a barrier around himself or some other target that bounces oncoming spells back to their owners. However, the spells can only rebound once." All 2-A abilities would make him a smurf.

 

[HST_Master]

You still need a CRT it says "Bartz erects a barrier around himself or some other target that bounces oncoming spells back to their owners. However, the spells can only rebound once." All 2-A abilities would make him a smurf.

And yet I just gave proof otherwise. Not to mention it doesn't rebound once what? He's constantly under the effects via the reflect ring. And no that wouldn't make him a smurf at all since he doesn't have "all 2-A abilities" he could reflect attacks from a 2-A and has the means to seal one. He's not walking around with 4-D Mindhax or something. Being a smurf means you have higher Dimensional stuff while having a 3-D tier. Being able to reflect attacks from a 2-A or seal one =/= having a higher Dimensional ability.

That is how outliers and barriers work though. If a barrier takes a hit from a higher tier opponent, the barrier scales.

And that's being selective about what you will allow or not. By your logic, a barrier should be an outlier given that it's an ability from that user.

If Shell, his offense, dura, summons, and all other basic abilities don’t scale, why would only reflect scale to the outlier fight?

Because they're not defensive spells. If they scaled he'd scale to 2-A. Reflect and his dura negating spells do not, as Reflect isn't taking any hits. It's just sending them back and dura negating spells and abilities, negate dura.

Even if the sparkler is stopped, it will still home in after time resumes.

And he can simply BFR it via Banish afterwards or kill them during the timestop.

He can’t hurt magalor while he teleports since he pops into an unkown place in between.

Then do it before, I doubt it's instant or passive.

So he has to teleport, un-activate time stop, and perfectly time another one while not getting hit. Even if he does kill them, they still have revives.

Why would he ever have to deactivate it himself. And not if he simply does them all at once via Death, Sealing in the void etc., he has the time.

How long does his time stop even last?

Depends on the enemies resistances. Sometimes only up to a minute, sometimes to the end of battle. Either way it's more than enough to set up some Dio shenanigans.

 

[00potato]

Your only proof was an outlier by your own admission. You can’t have that cake and eat it too. Give me your cake John

Being able to reflect 2-A attacks does make you a smurf though. Reflect would be 4-D if it can reflect that. 3-D defense can’t protect from 2-A attacks. It is still an outlier. If you want Reflect to be 4-D I still win since he is a smurf then and Adeline gets the spot.
How could he send forward an attack far stronger then any non-outlier statement

This isn’t selective logic. You are being selective by choosing what from a fight is and isn’t an outlier. Either it is an outlier or it isn’t.

You could say “he could do this.” But what makes that more likely then a buff or a summon or Libra on Adeline’s summons? Death can be revived from, when has he sealed anyone but the main villains? I don’t see how it in character.
This assumes that he times it properly and doesn’t get one shot beforehand by ribbon, sparkler or a summon

 

[HST_Master]

Your only proof was an outlier by your own admission. You can’t have that cake and eat it too. Give me your cake John

Yes they did, as they fought Neo Exdeath as well. They don't scale them to Enuo and Neo Exdeath because we consider it an outlier statwise,

These are my exact words.

Being able to reflect 2-A attacks does make you a smurf though. Reflect would be 4-D if it can reflect that. 3-D defense can’t protect from 2-A attacks. It is still an outlier. If you want Reflect to be 4-D I still win since he is a smurf then and Adeline gets the spot.
How could he send forward an attack far stronger then any non-outlier statement

No it doesn't. Being able to affect a 2-A in any fashion does not mean you are one, as he's still a 3-D being with 3-D attacks. And what non outlier statement, there's never been a statement on what he can or cannot reflect. Only showings from the likes of Shinryu, Omega, Neo Exdeath, a 2-A and Enuo another 2-A.

This isn’t selective logic. You are being selective by choosing what from a fight is and isn’t an outlier. Either it is an outlier or it isn’t.

No I'm not. I directly said statwise he doesn't scale. That includes any attack that doesn't negate dura.

You could say “he could do this.” But what makes that more likely then a buff or a summon or Libra on Adeline’s summons?

Why would he use Libra again on them or a buff if he's aware how much stronger they are from Libra? That's not only redudant but there in a time stop. Even if he does do those things there's literally nothing stopping him from doing anything offensive.

Death can be revived from, when has he sealed anyone but the main villains? I don’t see how it in character.

And not if he simply does them all at once via Death, Sealing in the void etc., he has the time.

Its almost like you're not seeing the "all at once" part. Who's going to revive them if he attacks them all in a time stop? Bartz? They went to get them specifically to stop exdeath before he got any access to the void like Enuo did, so there's zero reason he'd be against using them against enemies also far stronger than him.

This assumes that he times it properly and doesn’t get one shot beforehand by ribbon, sparkler or a summon

The same can be said for your argument. You act as if he has to pull out some book and flip through the pages for it. He just has to use the spell and time stops for everything but him.

 

[00potato]

1 If it is an outlier stat wise, why would it not also be for reflect for the same reasons. Why would only some of his abilities scale? Reflect being able to work on 2-A stuff is just as far if a jump as him having 2-A dura. Unless his reflect is consistently far above him, and is shown as working on beings infinitely above him, sure. But the only time that happen is in a fight you consider an outlier.
Stop being hypocritical. If you want to scale him to 2-A, don’t do it half way. You can’t have something only be an outlier for everything but one spell.

You forget how many spells he has. Why would he immediately go for time stop instead of death, time slow, etc.

Don’t act like his spells are just thought based. I checked FF5, they clearly aren’t. They aren’t any faster then pointing and shooting or a quick gesture, it is always at best a quick gesture. One wrong move kills him here and he can’t spam his spells more then Adeline and her summons can spam one shot attacks.

 

[HST_Master]

1 If it is an outlier stat wise, why would it not also be for reflect for the same reasons. Why would only some of his abilities scale? Reflect being able to work on 2-A stuff is just as far if a jump as him having 2-A dura. Unless his reflect is consistently far above him, and is shown as working on beings infinitely above him, sure. But the only time that happen is in a fight you consider an outlier.

Because Reflect isn't a stat? It's not a far jump at all because one is taking hits and another is reflecting attacks before they connect are 2 different things. Considering there's fighting Neo Exdeath, Enuo, and Shinryu and Omega, no it's an outlier statwise, they're very much still vulnerable to his dura negating and reflect.

Stop being hypocritical. If you want to scale him to 2-A, don’t do it half way. You can’t have something only be an outlier for everything but one spell.

There's nothing hypocritical about it. Aside from Reflect and Sealed Weapons, nothing outside of those 2 that aren't dura negating in some manner scale to him, as that'd make him 2-A.

You forget how many spells he has. Why would he immediately go for time stop instead of death, time slow, etc.

Because he's aware he's dealing with 4 people far stronger than him? The only one who wouldn't be is Adeleine herself. And you say "instead of death/time slow" as if they wouldn't be effective as well even though I've already mentioned that they have multi target versions like Iainuki and Slowaga and work on supposedly non organic beings like Golems.

Don’t act like his spells are just thought based. I checked FF5, they clearly aren’t. They aren’t any faster then pointing and shooting or a quick gesture, it is always at best a quick gesture. One wrong move kills him here and he can’t spam his spells more then Adeline and her summons can spam one shot attacks.

I never said they were. I said they weren't as slow as you were making them out to be, which you just openly admitted they weren't and they're just as fast as what her crew can do. Alongside I've looked at some of Magolor's Gameplay and those shockwaves are nowhere near as big as you make them out to be, they barely leave from his body aside from being shaped like a star and is easily dodgable. Also you made the Star Allies Sparkler seem like a 1st move thing when it's only available in the final boss. That doesn't sound like a 1st move at all.

 

[00potato]

Because Reflect isn't a stat? It's not a far jump at all because one is taking hits and another is reflecting attacks before they connect are 2 different things. Considering there's fighting Neo Exdeath, Enuo, and Shinryu and Omega, no it's an outlier statwise, they're very much still vulnerable to his dura negating and reflect.

There's nothing hypocritical about it. Aside from Reflect and Sealed Weapons, nothing outside of those 2 that aren't dura negating in some manner scale to him, as that'd make him 2-A.

Because he's aware he's dealing with 4 people far stronger than him? The only one who wouldn't be is Adeleine herself. And you say "instead of death/time slow" as if they wouldn't be effective as well even though I've already mentioned that they have multi target versions like Iainuki and Slowaga and work on supposedly non organic beings like Golems.

I never said they were. I said they weren't as slow as you were making them out to be, which you just openly admitted they weren't and they're just as fast as what her crew can do. Alongside I've looked at some of Magolor's Gameplay and those shockwaves are nowhere near as big as you make them out to be, they barely leave from his body aside from being shaped like a star and is easily dodgable. Also you made the Star Allies Sparkler seem like a 1st move thing when it's only available in the final boss. That doesn't sound like a 1st move at all.

Reflect is still stat based in nature though. As it is well absorbing and reflecting 2-A damage.

Even then dura negating hax that works on a tier 2/ Higher D beings are still tier 2/ Higher D in nature.

Bartz still has to
1 Gesture to Libra (While avoiding Ribbon’s gun.) and take in all that data (does it work on multiple enemies at the same time?) Also still shorter then Adeline’s 4-A summons and third one shot.
2 Gesture to attack while dodging the homing attacks and teleports, make the right decision (again these are slower then Ado’s attacks, which he needs to dodge constantly while doing these.)
The sparkler is used all the times you have it and it’s her best tool, she would probably bring it out after summoning.

 

[HST_Master]

Reflect is still stat based in nature though. As it is well absorbing and reflecting 2-A damage.

And again it's not absorbing anything. It takes the attack and reflects it before it hits.

Even then dura negating hax that works on a tier 2/ Higher D beings are still tier 2/ Higher D in nature.

Um no? because not all tier 2s are Higher D, ala Goku.

Bartz still has to
1 Gesture to Libra (While avoiding Ribbon’s gun.) and take in all that data (does it work on multiple enemies at the same time?) Also still shorter then Adeline’s 4-A summons and third one shot.
2 Gesture to attack while dodging the homing attacks and teleports, make the right decision (again these are slower then Ado’s attacks, which he needs to dodge constantly while doing these.)
The sparkler is used all the times you have it and it’s her best tool, she would probably bring it out after summoning.

1. Reflect and the fact she doesn't even start with the sparkler. Not to mention, I've literally repeated at least 10 times now, that he doesn't take at all that long to process the info he scans.

2. The teleportation isn't as big of a deal as you made it to be, the range is terrible, and time magic. And no, the statement that these are slower than anything she does is completely subjective. Not to mention her Paint summons range are far too limited except for like 1 that can fly to be of any real use before they get haxed.

prove it. Because it's quite literally only available against the final boss and by your own admission she already has the advantage in numbers and ap and has zero need to start with this, unlike Bartz who I've given my reasons for. It being her best tool is a poor reason for why she'd frame one start with it, even having her immediately start with optional equipment for no other reasoning but "it's there" is pretty iffy.

 

[Lou_change]

If reflect stops a 2-A power from harming him it has to be 2-A.

You are arguing that the guy whose most often used power is mimic will not use mimic but one of his instant kill moves and one that works, attack speed doesn't get equalized he won't even see the shard be shot as his brain won't have time to comprehend it even then speed unequalized is the natural rules so she should have second place anyway.

 

[HST_Master]

If reflect stops a 2-A power from harming him it has to be 2-A.

Um no? because not all tier 2s are Higher D, ala Goku.

And to boot, his reflect has worked on guys like Shinryu and Omega, and Omega MK II.

You are arguing that the guy whose most often used power is mimic will not use mimic but one of his instant kill moves and one that works,

Mimic Job gives him access to literally everything in his arsenal without need for changing jobs. Not to mention I argued he'd mimic in conjunction with his own abilities. Not soley mimic. And considering she doesn't have resistance to even half of his dura neg stuff and can literally see what works on her or not, it's irrelevant to say this.

attack speed doesn't get equalized he won't even see the shard be shot as his brain won't have time to comprehend it even then speed unequalized is the natural rules so she should have second place anyway.

A. Reflect Ring is always active.

B. "Assume Speed Equal" is like the 6th thing posted.

 

[Lou_change]

Mimic Job gives him access to literally everything in his arsenal without need for changing jobs. Not to mention I argued he'd mimic in conjunction with his own abilities. Not soley mimic. And considering she doesn't have resistance to even half of his dura neg stuff and can literally see what works on her or not, it's irrelevant to say this.

A. Reflect Ring is always active.

And to boot, his reflect has worked on guys like Shinryu and Omega, and Omega MK II.

Ok so in every final fantasy fight it is life or death right please tell me then why most boss fights implies that they beat the boss to death.

Neat, being 3-C would disqualify him as would reflecting 2-A magic. So those two don't matter.

 

[HST_Master]

Ok so in every final fantasy fight it is life or death right please tell me then why most boss fights implies that they beat the boss to death.

Nice strawman. I never said that. I said specifically...

he's aware he's dealing with 4 people far stronger than him

Unlike Ado he has more than enpugh reason to use abilities that can even the odds from the start. And again, he's already WtK in mindset.

Neat, being 3-C would disqualify him as would reflecting 2-A magic. So those two don't matter.

And now you're arguing for a girl with 4-A summons. Not to mention your argument against Reflect initially was that it worked against 2-As, so he couldn't use it. There should be zero issues given that 3-C is not only solidly 3-D without a doubt, but just a tier above 4-A. There's zero arguments for calling him a smurf, because by that logic, so is Ado.

 

[Lou_change]

I was bringing up a new point. I know nothing about Bartz. I am sorry if me trying to find out his first move is a problem.

How spells takes time likely more than it takes to fire a gun. Will to kill removes never kill morals, if they give an opponent 5000 chances to give up before killing he won't kill until the 5000 chance if it is never kill all restrictions that causes are removed.

If you're tier 3-C you aren't 5-A, that was you who said it was 2-A first I was barely involved. I mean the hypothetical 2-A reflect gets him ban, but gets one shot without.

 

[HST_Master]

I was bringing up a new point. I know nothing about Bartz. I am sorry if me trying to find out his first move is a problem.

And I've already repeated it several times with it at this point being simply ignored or deflected.

How spells takes time likely more than it takes to fire a gun. Will to kill removes never kill morals, if they give an opponent 5000 chances to give up before killing he won't kill until the 5000 chance if it is never kill all restrictions that causes are removed.

Reflect Ring is literally always active. It's a ring that passively generates reflect.

If you're tier 3-C you aren't 5-A, that was you who said it was 2-A first I was barely involved. I mean the hypothetical 2-A reflect gets him ban, but gets one shot without.

No.

You argued that because he's able to reflect attacks from a 2-A it shouldn't be allowed, which I already proved otherwise.

Then I give examples of 3-Cs and now you're arguing that'd it'd make reflect 3-C so it shouldn't count even you're ironically arguing for a 5-A with 4-A summons. There is no excuse for why his reflect shouldn't be usuable this point.

 

[Lou_change]

Give me prove of his first move.

Neat do to the following reasons.

If you think that a 5-A reflecting a 2-A isn't a smurf power go to the strongest non smurf character for every tier and ask.

Thd 3-C characters scale to Bartz if they are 3-C so is he mean he can't be second strongest non smurf for 5-A.

 

[HST_Master]

Give me prove of his first move.

His is whatever suits his situation alongside copying his opponent's equipment and or powers.

And he blatantly does so as well in games with more context such as dissidia.

Neat do to the following reasons.

If you think that a 5-A reflecting a 2-A isn't a smurf power go to the strongest non smurf character for every tier and ask.

Thd 3-C characters scale to Bartz if they are 3-C so is he mean he can't be second strongest non smurf for 5-A.

They scale from each other and gilgamesh. And yet again it's convenient you're saying nothing about Ado having 4-A dura or summons. Pick your poison.

 

[Lou_change]

Great what "suits" the situation, how does he know what it is, and can he do it faster than pressing the trigger of a gun.

His magic isn't massively above his physical stats meaning if reflect is 3-C he is 3-C as we have a character's defensive magic scale to their offensive magic unless we have a reason not too. Ado doesn't scale to her summons as such she is 5-A

 

[HST_Master]

Great what "suits" the situation, how does he know what it is, and can he do it faster than pressing the trigger of a gun.

Depends on his opponent, such as what they resist, numbers, etc.

His magic isn't massively above his physical stats meaning if reflect is 3-C he is 3-C as we have a character's defensive magic scale to their offensive magic unless we have a reason not too. Ado doesn't scale to her summons as such she is 5-A

No we don't. Or else characters durability and ap would always scale to each other as well and Glass Cannons and tanks wouldn't exist. Like Ado with 4-A durability.

 

[Lou_change]

How does he know?

You can look into if you want I don't make the rules but I try to follow them.

 

[HST_Master]

How does he know?

Libra which lets him see his opponents strength and resistances.

You can look into if you want I don't make the rules but I try to follow them.

And that's not a rule. Like at all. We assume it's like that unless shown otherwise, which is completely different. The bevy of characters who are Tier X in AP yet Tier Y in Dura disagrees with you.

 

[Daddybrawl]

So uh, may have missed a few things. This entire thread has essentially been a back and forth, ‘You win’ ‘No they win’ over and over again, so I apologize if I missed something crucial. However, from what I’ve read from the posts, I have to say Potato makes the most sense to me here, so I will vote Adeline FRA

 

[00potato]

I mean this is specifically the 5-A lowball, scaling him to the 3-C highball makes no sense. (This was done for the list so it must be 5-A.) 3-C reflect only applies to 3-C Bartz pretty much.
More of a rules issue then anything else. Understandable but still flawed.

 

[Lou_change]

From the creation page: Note that this only applies to the character's capacity to harm other characters if their Creation is connected to their other abilities; for example, it can be reasoned that a mage who can conjure a city with little mana can destroy one with the same amount of mana, however a character who can create objects without other ways of harming their opponents wouldn't be able to harness that power to hurt another character, and would fall under a light form of Environmental Destruction.

 

[HST_Master]

From the creation page: Note that this only applies to the character's capacity to harm other characters if their Creation is connected to their other abilities; for example, it can be reasoned that a mage who can conjure a city with little mana can destroy one with the same amount of mana, however a character who can create objects without other ways of harming their opponents wouldn't be able to harness that power to hurt another character, and would fall under a light form of Environmental Destruction.

You're reaching now. This is applying to creation feats.

I mean this is specifically the 5-A lowball, scaling him to the 3-C highball makes no sense. (This was done for the list so it must be 5-A.) 3-C reflect only applies to 3-C Bartz pretty much.
More of a rules issue then anything else. Understandable but still flawed.

Omega MK II doesn't have a 5-A lowball. He's 3-C.

 

[00potato]

This isn’t Omega MK II, this is Bartz.

 

[Lou_change]

Reflect isn't massive above all his other magic abilities.

Great, no profile so I am not inclined to believe you even then Omega MK II would be thousands of times stronger and unless you are arguing fighting him not being an outlier in the first place, NO.

 

[HST_Master]

Reflect isn't massive above all his other magic abilities.

I never said it was. In fact I repeatedly say it's not taking any attacks, it's reflecting something before it comes into contact with it. You're asserting your own mechanics into it.

This isn’t Omega MK II, this is Bartz.

Who's reflected attacks from Omega MK II. You know what I mean.

Great, no profile so I am not inclined to believe you even then Omega MK II would be thousands of times stronger and unless you are arguing fighting him not being an outlier in the first place, NO.

Great no profile"

Omega MK II literally does? He's >> Omega. This is just willful ignorance at this point.

 

[Lou_change]

I know you didn't. Ok if someone yeeted a galaxy at him reflect would have to use magic from Bartz to make it hit the guy whose tried that if it isn't massively above his other powers he would be 3-C.

Ok then perhaps I pulled up the wrong profile please give me a link.

 

[00potato]

The Bartz that would have fought Omega would be plain 3-C, this is the 5-A lowball, the fact that you have to mix them shows that you are getting kinda desperate.
There is a reason it isn’t just plain 3-C, if we were using 3-C Bartz then you would be right but we aren’t, don’t mix the possibilities like that.

 

[HST_Master]

The Bartz that would have fought Omega would be plain 3-C, this is the 5-A lowball, the fact that you have to mix them shows that you are getting kinda desperate.
There is a reason it isn’t just plain 3-C, if we were using 3-C Bartz then you would be right but we aren’t, don’t mix the possibilities like that.

Not at all. I've now given at least 4 different showings of him being able to use reflect against enemies stronger than he is and it's simply been the runaround ranging from saying that it only works on magic to somehow trying to tier his reflect.

I know you didn't. Ok if someone yeeted a galaxy at him reflect would have to use magic from Bartz to make it hit the guy whose tried that if it isn't massively above his other powers he would be 3-C.

He's not a shonen protagonist. The volume of mp he has does not correlate to his strength or the strength of his magic.

Ok then perhaps I pulled up the wrong profile please give me a link.

There's tabbers to separate them. Like right on the profile dude.

 

[00potato]

Your only examples were either outliers, or apply to 3-C Bartz, not 5-A Bartz.

 

[Lou_change]

Then give me the link.

 

[HST_Master]

Your only examples were either outliers, or apply to 3-C Bartz, not 5-A Bartz.

Except it's not an outlier it is only one statwise as in he can't scale ap and dura wise. And again Omega MK II not to mention reflect doesn't have a tier. It's hax and nothing I've said isn't not in the realm of what's happened in game. And before the "but that would make him a smurf" 2: electric boogaloo, that would soley apply if Enuo and Exdeath had HDE. They don't.

Then give me the link.

Omega (Final Fantasy)

Omega is powerful automaton rumored to have been designed to hunt the Lord Dragon, Shinryu. It serves as an optional superboss in several games of the franchise ever since its first appearance in Final Fantasy V. It serves no purpose in the plot, and simply exists to challenge the player after...

vsbattles.fandom.com

There's literally tabbers visually separating like 4 different versions alone.

And I haven't forgotten the lack of evidence on your parts about her usage of the sparkler + optional equipment.

 

[00potato]

The profile just says 5-A possibly 3-C.
Even then that doesn’t make 5-A Bartz scale to the 3-C’s with anything.
Why do they specifically need HDE? There attacks and dura are still 2-A. If it’s an outlier stat-wise, it also it for his abilities. They were in all the same situations. (Even then I think they do have that considering that they are one with the 2-A void.)