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Bartz fights a small child.

Barry has a lot of stuff, what would he start with.
Ado probably starts with 4-A summons and freind hearts.
(How good is his mind resist?)
 
Isnt Bartz far weaker, less than the 7.5x gap?

Anyway, couldnt Bartz inflict Doom on the summons and Adeleine?
 
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1 I don’t know the AP gap for them but the summons one shot anyway.

Could he kill the summons? Will it work on painting based beings? Does he tend to start with that?
 
I mean it is also a Massively FTL+ vs a Sub-Relativistic and speed is not equal so Ado wins before he even thinks much less speaks or ribbon can do it.
 
But it isn't besides can't we do ado speed unequal/Bartz speed equal. But if I have to Bartz do to speaking being faster than painting even if we say he doesn't choose a instant win spell he has higher range so unless ribbon shoots him first thing which would one shot and he doesn't dodge he should have time to choose the winning spell. Unless friend heart is more in character but it probably lacks the range.
 
Yeah we can. (Since this is strongest, I should allow her optional stuff.)
Her painting is very fast, enough to be combat applicable so it should come out only a bit after the attack. She also has other summons like Dedede, Magalor and others with the dream rod, she has invuln with candy, can he get by that? Her dream rod summons also can revive her too and they one shot him as well.
 
What's stopping him from copying the summons for himself? On a side note, her vs Relm would be great thematically.
 
In Dissidia he's shown to be able to copy people's summons and iirc we're allowed to use abilities from so long as it doesn't contradict the source game (Like Kefka being able to switch to his God of Magic form at will)
 
I mean has he been shown to copy summons that much stronger then him? Will that work on her painting since it works differently? Will it work if the summon is a one of a kind character like Magalor (pretty much all of the dream friends are individuals anyway.)

Even then is is Dissidia considered canon now? I don’t see much evidence for that assertion of viability.
They start far enough away the he won’t see her use the summoning, can he still copy then.
 
I mean has he been shown to copy summons that much stronger then him?
Currently, no.

Will that work on her painting since it works differently?
He's capable of copying her painting ability, since if it's based on an object he can simply create a version for himself.
Will it work if the summon is a one of a kind character like Magalor (pretty much all of the dream friends are individuals anyway.)

Even then is is Dissidia considered canon now? I don’t see much evidence for that assertion of viability.
He's able to copy Yuna's Aeons, which only exist one at a time (For example another summoner shouldn't be able to summon Ixion if he's already summoned)

And so long as it doesn't involve directly scaling the characters stats to it or it doesn't contradict their respective game, we're allowed to use abilities from it.
 
Honestly you probably are right about Yuna’s summons (I played 10, pretty good.) It doesn’t matter too much.
Anyway since most of her summons are tier 4 he probably can’t copy them since you would need proof about him summoning beings that strong. Even the painting, being generous assuming she summoned a 5-A, he would need to know how to paint well and summon from the painting like her.
 
Thats fine, after all he does have other wincons
Knowing how to paint wouldn't be a problem given he's also stated to be able to use said mimic'd ability/weapon better than the original user mid battle.
 
But the strengths gap would invalidate that. That applies for weapons but painting? If he could wouldn’t he have similar powers via Relm (they are from the same game right?) Unless it has feats of giving him something lien subjective reality then I don’t think it will work.
 
I mean his wincon isn't soley based on copying her, he has enough in his own arsenal, he just usually fights with his own stuff + whatever he copies.

Relm is from FF6. Bartz is from 5.
 
Ok but what is his win-con? He would have to deal with folks that have 4-A AP and Interstellar range such as DeDeDe and Magalor since she just needs to hold up the staff to summon. They can revive her, candy gives her invuln, and damage can be healed. What is his first move?
 
Whatever suits the situation. He doesn't have anything he specifically starts with. That said he has several counters to deal with her summons and dura-negating abilities himself like Death, Break which petrifies, his own summons like Shiva who can freeze someone down to absolute zero, time slow and stop, power null her before she can do anything, transmuting into a frog or seal them away in the void via the Sealed Weapons which were even able to seal away Enuo who was 2-A.
 
Would he be able to do that before dying to 4-A shockwaves? Death isn’t a problem since the summons can be revived or aren’t even alive. Many of her summons such as Magalor can escape the BFR via teleporting. He doesn’t have much time to make a choice and a quick mistake
Transmutation is resisted also. Not sure about shiva.
He has a lot of options but few win before he gets one shot. Also do they even start in freezing range?
 
Ribbon is also here and can one shot if we don't know if he will choose the right move I am going to vote incon.
 
Would he be able to do that before dying to 4-A shockwaves?
Even if he can't he has arise to revive himself. Not to mention one of his summons, Phoenix also do this.

Death isn’t a problem since the summons can be revived or aren’t even alive.
Then he can simply petrify them instead. Or PN before they get the chance
Many of her summons such as Magalor can escape the BFR via teleporting.
Enuo could also teleport and was stuck. Not to mention unless they have resistance to Void Manipulation, they'll die in the void anyway.
He has a lot of options but few win before he gets one shot. Also do they even start in freezing range?
SBA has them start in Central Park no? Cuz that's a definite yes if so, and even then her presence itself is enough.
 
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They also can revive. The summons would also get one shot so they can’t help him.

His revival isn’t exactly instant so that gives time to attack as he gets up or use friend hearts (too strong for him to resist.)

The summons also resist transmutation, petrification should also be resisted as well since they are the same thing mostly.
Invuln should protect her from a lot of it (he would not know about it so he might use something she resists or is invulnerable to.)
Enuo’s teleportation has what range exactly? Magalor’s is inter dimensional. Regen should allow him to survive long enough to think and teleport.
He has wincons but a good chunk of them are resisted while
 
They also can revive. The summons would also get one shot so they can’t help him.
They don't need to contest AP wise. Their abilities are sufficient which either support him or are dura negating like Shiva's AZ or Odin's Zantestsuken inflicting death on all of them, leaving Bartz to be able to simply petrify, time stop, or seal etc. whoever's left.
His revival isn’t exactly instant so that gives time to attack as he gets up or use friend hearts (too strong for him to resist.)
It is instant, it's just casted and he gets back up.
The summons also resist transmutation, petrification should also be resisted as well since they are the same thing mostly.
Transmutation's not the same thing as petrification. One can result in the other but not vice versa.
Invuln should protect her from a lot of it (he would not know about it so he might use something she resists or is invulnerable to.)
Why would invulnerability stop anything other than AP and isn't it from an item she actually has to use before hand? Also he has Libra which tells him how strong she is and what she does or doesn't resist.
Enuo’s teleportation has what range exactly? Magalor’s is inter dimensional. Regen should allow him to survive long enough to think and teleport.
Multiversal+ and looking at his profile, his regen is only Mid-High, which is nowehere near enough to regen from being in a void, not to mention everyone else including Adeline would be erased from being in the void
He has wincons but a good chunk of them are resisted while
The only thing she really resists is transmutation. That said what are the reasons for death not working on some of the summons she uses?
So, dispel doesn't work like that it only works on stat amps and they resist transmutation.
He has more than one form of PN via Silence as well, which stops from using both magic and inherent abilities.
 
They don't need to contest AP wise. Their abilities are sufficient which either support him or are dura negating like Shiva's AZ or Odin's Zantestsuken inflicting death on all of them, leaving Bartz to be able to simply petrify, time stop, or seal etc. whoever's left.

It is instant, it's just casted and he gets back up.

Transmutation's not the same thing as petrification. One can result in the other but not vice versa.

Why would invulnerability stop anything other than AP and isn't it from an item she actually has to use before hand? Also he has Libra which tells him how strong she is and what she does or doesn't resist.

Multiversal+ and looking at his profile, his regen is only Mid-High, which is nowehere near enough to regen from being in a void, not to mention everyone else including Adeline would be erased from being in the void

The only thing she really resists is transmutation. That said what are the reasons for death not working on some of the summons she uses?

He has more than one form of PN via Silence as well, which stops from using both magic and inherent abilities.
(how do you split quotes like that?)
it doesn’t matter if they just get one shot. Unless summoning is nigh instant hers will be their first and 4-A shockwaves will one shot.
Will he be able to be revived from a 4-A attack? That should be enough to vaporize him.

Petrification is a type of transmutation and should be resisted. Turning you into stone is still turning you into a thing.

Enuo only has Multi-plus range in void form. I don’t see how he scales to the 2-A form from the void in anyway.

Silence doesn’t stop 4-A shockwaves or AP. Or a 4-A gun from ribbon. That alone should kill all his summons/Bartz himself honestly.
 
That prevents only speaking based powers of which she has none that. Even then friend hearts and the crystal gun aren't inherent powers.
 
I just quote it and cutting out the parts I'm answering with Enter.

Unless summoning is nigh instant hers will be their first and 4-A shockwaves will one shot.
It is nigh instant. That said her summons aren't exactly already summoned are they?
Petrification is a type of transmutation and should be resisted. Turning you into stone is still turning you into a thing.
Regardless it works on those that can resist toad.
Enuo only has Multi-plus range in void form. I don’t see how he scales to the 2-A form from the void in anyway.
He was 2-A because of being in the void and gaining it's power like exdeath did. And he still couldn't escape until the seal was broken from the worlds merging back together.
Silence doesn’t stop 4-A shockwaves or AP. Or a 4-A gun from ribbon. That alone should kill all his summons/Bartz himself honestly.
That depends on if she has the chance to use it. I'd say it just as much as Bartz does with any of his arsenal.

That prevents only speaking based powers of which she has none that. Even then friend hearts and the crystal gun aren't inherent powers.
It also seals away abilities like Jump and the like, which don't have to be spoke at all. And how likely is she to use this over her painting?
 
Supposedly friend hearts are first thing that all the other dream friends do in character and the crystal gun is her main weapon if she can't paint.
 
She is honestly just as likely to use it as the painting if not more. Ribbon is always with her, so the 4-A gun is always a factor, even with silence. He won’t even cast silence before knowing what she can do, since he won’t know if she can activate it. Also ribbon is a separate character, she could just shoot him to distract or kill him because of the one shot. That allows Adeline to summon goons who also one shot by shockwaves. Friend hearts turn the summons against him and some of the summons have a sort of low godly if that CRT went through.

Few of Bartz things can work against multiple goons at once, he gets one shot, and probably vaporized as well do to the AP gap. He can’t revive from vaporization most likely.

They did not fight the void one or they would be 2-A themselves so the scaling doesn’t seem right anyway.
 
She is honestly just as likely to use it as the painting if not more. Ribbon is always with her, so the 4-A gun is always a factor, even with silence. He won’t even cast silence before knowing what she can do, since he won’t know if she can activate it. Also ribbon is a separate character, she could just shoot him to distract or kill him because of the one shot.
And again what's stopping death manip? As the death spell isn't the only way he can use it, from weapons and items as well.
That allows Adeline to summon goons who also one shot by shockwaves. Friend hearts turn the summons against him and some of the summons have a sort of low godly if that CRT went through.
Low Godly wouldn't help either as that's regeneration from the soul. And he's already beaten his own summons before, in fact that's how he gains them, and can simply be dismissed.
Few of Bartz things can work against multiple goons at once, he gets one shot, and probably vaporized as well do to the AP gap. He can’t revive from vaporization most likely.
He has several that can, from his summons, Iainuki, Dark Spark which can "half" their stats, and more.
They did not fight the void one or they would be 2-A themselves so the scaling doesn’t seem right anyway.
Yes they did, as they fought Neo Exdeath as well. They don't scale them to Enuo and Neo Exdeath because we consider it an outlier statwise, regardless ot wouldn't matter eitherway, because the Sealed Weapons were what kept Enuo sealed away even as he became 2-A, which are in Bartz' possession.
 
Then why mention it if you consider it an outlier? We can’t exactly use that here.

Did he fight the summons alone? Did the summons fight with a small army of 4-A’s? If not then him beating them before doesn’t matter. Could he dismiss them while they are fighting against him? If he took the time to, then that would leave him open to a one shot.

Cutting stats in half isn’t much help since he still gets one shot.

Death can be counterd by resurrection, revival. I don’t see how it works when someone is invulnerable too.
 
Then why mention it if you consider it an outlier? We can’t exactly use that here.
Because the sealed weapons still sealed Enuo away. It being an outlier doesn't affect that, it just means Bartz isn't 2-A himself.
Did he fight the summons alone?
He can fight them alone or with hus party.
Did the summons fight with a small army of 4-A’s? If not then him beating them before doesn’t matter.
He can dismiss them so it doesn't really affect much.
Could he dismiss them while they are fighting against him? If he took the time to, then that would leave him open to a one shot.
It's not a long process to summon or dismiss them so he'd be fine. Nearly none of his abilities take a long time or are nigh instant. Not to mention she'd have to do this before they're all frozen solid by absolute zero which again is simply by Shiva being in the area, even if she does control Shiva, she and her summons end up getting frozen regardless due to lacking the resistance to AZ Bartz has.
Cutting stats in half isn’t much help since he still gets one shot.
Considering that it also cuts her stats it does seeing as it making them slower to act than he is. Not to mention this is forgetting his Time Magic like Slow and Stop to incap as well.
Death can be counterd by resurrection, revival. I don’t see how it works when someone is invulnerable too.
Because they are limits to invulnerability. We don't assume that someone's invulnerability makes them invulnerable to everything anymore, without feats to back it up. And again isn't this via optional equipment she actually has to use? What's saying she'll immediately use it?
 
Unless he can canonically fight them alone then we shouldn’t use it for an argument. you are usually supposed to use the party, that is likely more canon.
Anyway it doesn’t matter since he isn’t just fighting his summons, he is fighting a whole squad of 4-A

Why would she get frozen? If she befriended shiva, Shiva would avoid freezing them, they can escape by turning into energy or teleporting.

>What is she doesn’t immediately use it.
The same could be said for any of Bart’z moves. Why would he start with death hax over stat debuffs, or shiva or sealing that he only used against the final bosses in an outlier fight, over transmutation, over literally any other of his almost a thousand options?
Many of them end up poorly for him. If it doesn’t instantly end the fight, he gets one shot (even with stat debuffs since that gives them an opening to shoot at him and summon 4-A shockwaves.), if he guards, one shot. If he summons, hearts gg, transmutation is resisted and so is mind hax (if he uses those first he dies. Would he first try to kill this little kid with a paintbrush?) All of his first options are an unknown, inconsistent selection, while all of Adeline’s first moves one shot.
 
Unless he can canonically fight them alone then we shouldn’t use it for an argument. you are usually supposed to use the party, that is likely more canon.
They scale to him anyway so it's irrelevant to say the least.
Anyway it doesn’t matter since he isn’t just fighting his summons, he is fighting a whole squad of 4-A

Why would she get frozen? If she befriended shiva, Shiva would avoid freezing them, they can escape by turning into energy or teleporting.
Because it's a passive ability, it's not something Shiva can just turn off. Not to mention it's instant, so there's not much she can do once Shiva's out.
>What is she doesn’t immediately use it.
The same could be said for any of Bart’z moves. Why would he start with death hax over stat debuffs, or shiva or sealing that he only used against the final bosses in an outlier fight, over transmutation, over literally any other of his almost a thousand options?
Libra. It allows him to see weaknesses and resistances, alongside her strength, he can freely change his fighting style depending on the situation. And again being an outlier does not affect the sealed weapons one bit. The weapons sealing Enuo is not the outlier. Bartz and co scaling to Enuo is.
Many of them end up poorly for him. If it doesn’t instantly end the fight, he gets one shot (even with stat debuffs since that gives them an opening to shoot at him and summon 4-A shockwaves.)
Again her stats are still cut in half includes her speed, meaning she'd be slower than him.
, if he guards, one shot. If he summons, hearts gg,
That can be dismissed or in case of Shiva, freeze them anyway because they lack resistance. Shiva can't just turn off her AZ, hence why Bartz has resistance.
transmutation is resisted and so is mind hax (if he uses those first he dies. Would he first try to kill this little kid with a paintbrush?) All of his first options are an unknown, inconsistent selection, while all of Adeline’s first moves one shot.
Being a kid doesn't really affect much seeing as he fights alongside Krile, another child regularly, not to mention SBA means he's willing to kill her regardless of her age. And I didn't say anything regarding mind hax. And I've addressed Bartz fighting style above.
 
I already explained why the half speed isn’t a big deal. He is still outnumbered and one shot and taking the time to summon the guy still leaves him open to a shockwave or a teleport kill.

Shiva is the exemption from the rule, not the rule itself, he would just as easily summon Odin, who gets befriended, or any other summon. Even then turning into energy

Casting Libra would probably leave him open if he has to take the time to use it and comprehend all of that info, giving Adeline the chance to summon and Ribbon time to shoot at him. So he probably dies, especially since Libra probably doesn’t tell him the strength of both her, ribbon and all the summons at once. Even if it did that would be all the more info to comprehend in a short timeframe before he gets one shot:

Sba doesn’t completely change what he would do in character though. Would he first think to kill her? Directly answer the question.
 
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