BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[Trihexa102]

The 3 realms are already accepted as universes

I mean there aren't really anything definite that says they are just assumed for now, but it would be scrutinized much more when trying to get garganta to being a higher dimensional structure, well hopefully cour 4 gives enough info for most of this.

 

[Trihexa102]

Pretty sure the garganta is straight up called infinite and not infinitely expanding like the muken. In the novel the narrator desribes it as the 'infinite expanse' of the garganta and that time flows differently here. In one of the old threads this was also translated by the site translator and had the proper kanji used.

The anime card says infinitely expanding am pretty sure.

 

[Torsin]

The anime card says infinitely expanding am pretty sure.

There was a title card for the garganta? I dont recall it tbh. Need to check it out. But would that be contradictory? it can be infinite and keep expanding? Why discard the novel statement when they don't contradict?

 

[Trihexa102]

There was a title card for the garganta? I dont recall it tbh. Need to check it out. But would that be contradictory? it can be infinite and keep expanding? Why discard the novel statement when they don't contradict?

something infinitely expanding is vastly different from something being inherently infinite.
edit: it might be from the anime card or cfyow not sure though will check to be sure.

 

[Torsin]

something infinitely expanding is vastly different from something being inherently infinite.
edit: it might be from the anime card or cfyow not sure though will check to be sure.

The only title card for the garganta I can find was in episode 5 but dont see any infitely expanding statements in it. You sure you are not confusing it for the muken? If you have the epsiode number it would be helpful.

黒腔現世と虚圏をつないでいる穴。虚や破面が現世と虚圏を行き来する際に開かれ、普段は閉じている。
中に道はなく霊子の乱気流が渦巻いているため、通行者は霊子を固めて足場を作りながら進まなければならない。
藍染との戦いへの備えとして尸魂界から指令を受けていた浦原喜助は、「我が右手に界境を繋ぐ石 我が左手に実存を縛る刃 黒髪の羊飼い 縛り首の椅子 叢雲来たりて 我・鴇を打つ」という口上と共に術を発動することにより開いて、調整・安定させることができる。
また、涅マユリは虚圏にてザエルアポロの資料を用い黒腔の機構を 解析、より高い精度で黒腔を開く装置を開発。
尸魂界と虚圏を繋ぐことを可能とした。


Also edit: Pretty sure as stated earlier the CFYOW novel calls it an infinte expanse not infinitely expanding.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

doubt it unless there are statements of it encompassing all the realms and if there realms are universes.

???
1. The Garganta surrounds all of reality as of now.
2. The realms are accepted as universes already?

If you had evidence to suggest otherwise please show us.

 

[Trihexa102]

???
1. The Garganta surrounds all of reality as of now.
2. The realms are accepted as universes already?

If you had evidence to suggest otherwise please show us.

1. The garganta is just a void that fills the realms up, unless it's stated to possess a geometric axis, above standard 3d space.
2. It's isn't accepted as a thread or cosmology setting from what i have seen in the profiles, just assumed but it's better till more info drops.

 

[Trihexa102]

The only title card for the garganta I can find was in episode 5 but dont see any infitely expanding statements in it. You sure you are not confusing it for the muken? If you have the epsiode number it would be helpful.

黒腔現世と虚圏をつないでいる穴。虚や破面が現世と虚圏を行き来する際に開かれ、普段は閉じている。
中に道はなく霊子の乱気流が渦巻いているため、通行者は霊子を固めて足場を作りながら進まなければならない。
藍染との戦いへの備えとして尸魂界から指令を受けていた浦原喜助は、「我が右手に界境を繋ぐ石 我が左手に実存を縛る刃 黒髪の羊飼い 縛り首の椅子 叢雲来たりて 我・鴇を打つ」という口上と共に術を発動することにより開いて、調整・安定させることができる。
また、涅マユリは虚圏にてザエルアポロの資料を用い黒腔の機構を 解析、より高い精度で黒腔を開く装置を開発。
尸魂界と虚圏を繋ぐことを可能とした。


Also edit: Pretty sure as stated earlier the CFYOW novel calls it an infinte expanse not infinitely expanding.

Just checked it aura says infinitely expanding, and yea it's prob from cfyow am remembering.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

1. The garganta is just a void that fills the realms up, unless it's stated to possess a geometric axis, above standard 3d space.
2. It's isn't accepted as a thread or cosmology setting from what i have seen in the profiles, just assumed but it's better till more info drops.

1. Dude the cosmology is inside this void. Are you suggesting something is outside the Garganta..?
2. You must be looking at outdated profiles like Soul King or Yhwach. Ichibei has 2-C range with his abilities. It is not an assumption it is a fact.

Universal to Interdimensional with Reiatsu (His Reiatsu would be able to shake the three realms of existence as it is comparable, if not superior, to Senjumaru's), Low Multiversal with Ichimonji (Ichimonji is capable of affecting the future of the realms)

 

[Trihexa102]

1. Dude the cosmology is inside this void. Are you suggesting something is outside the Garganta..?
2. You must be looking at outdated profiles like Soul King or Yhwach. Ichibei has 2-C range with his abilities. It is not an assumption it is a fact.

1. No am merely saying there is not enough proof, you would need to prove the garganta possess a geometric axis like i stated when it's just a void(along with other characteristics).
2. That's my point there is nothing that explains or proves them being universes, like a blog or accepted thread. It's logically assumed because nothing Definitively justifies it yet. which am guessing people are waiting for cour 4 for proper confirmation.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

1. No am merely saying there is not enough proof, you would need to prove the garganta possess a geometric axis like i stated when it's just a void(along with other characteristics).
2. That's my point there is nothing that explains or proves them being universes, like a blog or accepted thread. It's logically assumed because nothing Definitively justifies it yet. which am guessing people are waiting for cour 4 for proper confirmation.

Nah I think you trolling now bruh. Imma leave it at that.

 

[Trihexa102]

Nah I think you trolling now bruh. Imma leave it at that.

what ever you think man, sure we can agree to disagree.

 

[HelloThere1089]

The realms are accepted as universes already?

are they accepted to be infinite on the wiki? or just the size of the observable universe.

 

[Torsin]

Just checked it aura says infinitely expanding, and yea it's prob from cfyow am remembering.

The statement from Aura in the official translation is endless expanse but when the raws are taken infinite is mentioned.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

are they accepted to be infinite on the wiki? or just the size of the observable universe.

Our universe I think.

 

[HelloThere1089]

Our universe I think.

Then the container doesn't need to have a higher axis then does it? A 3D contained is capable of containing 3 finite universes. Spatially speaking

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

That doesn't really debunk what i said, Yhwach was in combat too, he still get backstabbed, Young Sasakibe > Old Sasakibe (That is also headcanon, most of shinigami don't get extremely weaker) still doesn't prove he is on Yhwach level.

I'm not saying "Yhwach wasn't in combat, so Chojuro wouldn't scale him." I'm saying it's either a drop in Yhwach's level because Chojuro stopped training, or he's an outlier. Still, that doesn't refute Grimmjow being able to hit Askin.

Dealing damage to Yhwach doesn't level him up anyway. He might still be much weaker in terms of speed. He might only scale him in terms of AP and LS.

 

[Trihexa102]

The statement from Aura in the official translation is endless expanse but when the raws are taken infinite is mentioned.

Think it's wrong translation plus endless might contextually mean infinitely exapnding.

raws when translated verbatim says "Infinitely expanding" not "Infinite".

 

[Overvoid69]

Think it's wrong translation plus endless might contextually mean infinitely exapnding.

raws when translated verbatim says "Infinitely expanding" not "Infinite".

Wouldn't "あのまま無限に広がる黒" translate to "the blackness that stretches out infinitely"

 

[Soulking22334]

look around post-ch130, she mentioned how interacting with the kotosu/cleaner sent them a bit off the time axis but urahara's inventions saved them the hassle and allat, she was thinking abt if Ichigo can achieve bankai given their short time. As for Isshin iicr its around ch420

this?

That's wrong though you need to prove an additional spatial axis or have it stated to be HD.

budddy there is no doubt bleach has hyper-timelines

[Original Past] ───> [Present] ───> [All Futures in which the bankai is Broken by Yhwach] │
└─── (Tsukishima inserts new past) │
└───> [New Present] ───> [New Futures (Unbroken)] ───> Orihime Rejects Event

that proves my point

statements of it encompassing all the realms

graganta contains every post primordial sea dimension

if there realms are universes.

ohh the old card

all the realms have starry sky's and no its not like the realms are planets in different dimensions the realms are the dimensions

the sun is inside wotl

constellation exists

Think it's wrong translation plus endless might contextually mean infinitely exapnding.

無限に広がる (mugen ni hirogaru) , the word 広がる (hirogaru) is used here for describing the vastness of graganta

Infinitely Expanding or Infinite Expanse both can be true ( The official translation went with the latter option, so I don't think there should be any debate here)
the text describes how vast it is not the state of it

 

[Soulking22334]

Wouldn't "あのまま無限に広がる黒" translate to "the blackness that stretches out infinitely"

infinitely extending / endlessly stretching / infinitely vast all are possible answers

but we have the official translation

 

[Trihexa102]

Wouldn't "あのまま無限に広がる黒" translate to "the blackness that stretches out infinitely"

Would still be wrong as it's trying to become infinite, it's not yet infinite.

 

[Trihexa102]

this?

budddy there is no doubt bleach has hyper-timelines

[Original Past] ───> [Present] ───> [All Futures in which the bankai is Broken by Yhwach] │
└─── (Tsukishima inserts new past) │
└───> [New Present] ───> [New Futures (Unbroken)] ───> Orihime Rejects Event

that proves my point

graganta contains every post primordial sea dimension



ohh the old card

all the realms have starry sky's and no its not like the realms are planets in different dimensions the realms are the dimensions

the sun is inside wotl

constellation exists

無限に広がる (mugen ni hirogaru) , the word 広がる (hirogaru) is used here for describing the vastness of graganta

Infinitely Expanding or Infinite Expanse both can be true ( The official translation went with the latter option, so I don't think there should be any debate here)
the text describes how vast it is not the state of it

I disagree with this but lets just agree to disagree for now, nothing here you showed is proof/evidence i asked for.

 

[Foriaa]

all the realms have starry sky's and no its not like the realms are planets in different dimensions the realms are the dimensions

This is very obvious, new cour showed the WoL with a starry sky again, anybody arguing that the dimensions are planets is odd

Spoiler: Spoiler

 

[Trihexa102]

This is very obvious, new cour showed the WoL with a starry sky again, anybody arguing that the dimensions are planets is odd

Spoiler: Spoiler

I think it's more that people think they are planets in dimension's, there is another cut that shows the planets merging in the trailers.

 

[Foriaa]

I think it's more that people think they are planets in dimension's

I mean, it can refer to more than just the dimensions, like the literal planet they're on, I'd assume it would be context based. It would be kinda weird for the destruction of the realms to refer only to planets

 

[Soulking22334]

I think it's more that people think they are planets in dimension's, there is another cut that shows the planets merging in the trailers.

and i debunked this via this

do you think a planet can contain a star??

 

[Soulking22334]

I disagree with this but lets just agree to disagree for now, nothing here you showed is proof/evidence i asked for.

buddy you asked about higher dimension , hyper timeliness mean what???

you guys are strange

 

[Soulking22334]

5 KM/H x 24 Hours x 6 Days = Circumference: 720km/Diameter: 229.18 km/Radius: 114.59 km

using this can someone calc this

?

 

[NeonTxme]

doubt it unless there are statements of it encompassing all the realms and if there realms are universes.

the realms not being universal is a wild take to have nowadays
All three realms are mentioned to be triplets made of separating the Infinite primordial sea. Both the SS and TWOTL had direct statements and showings about celestial bodies and astronomical objects (be it ranging from outerspaces to other galaxies)--both had direct conformations about being a universe through direct statements. (cough cough)
Both are disconnected by the Dangai which makes traveling between them possible as there is no conventional/physical way of doing so, Dangai on its own is separated from time and space. Even the Masked guidebook mentioned how SS works under different set of logic which necessities it being a different universe completely.
Both had individual significant spacetimes through either statements or stuff like Almighty and Book of the End (honorable mention being Kotosu which throws you off the time-axis in SS)
If you want to stretch it you can ever argue Muken being infinite therefore granting all of them infinite size (HM on its own has ceaseless Reishi which we know it to be spiritual matter and something which forms the structures there) + supported by the fact that primordial sea was said to be endless/infinite and dividing it leaves us with infinite sized realms.
Garganta is also mentioned to be infinite in expanse and acts as the boundary of realms with a separate time axis that works differently compared to all 3 realms, it encompasses all the realms through Yoruichi's slideshow and SAFWY/CFYOW explanations and you can travel to any of them via the Garganta. It wouldn't be too wild for assuming it having a significant axis over all the realms making it 5D.

 

[NeonTxme]

this?

mb i cant see the screenshots attached this way- lol

 

[Soulking22334]

mb i cant see the screenshots attached this way- lol

here

 

[NeonTxme]

5 KM/H x 24 Hours x 6 Days = Circumference: 720km/Diameter: 229.18 km/Radius: 114.59 km

using this can someone calc this

?

we already have calcs for Las Noches size linked in the main page, and maybe some other calcs in character's profiles. But all of them are quite outdated as of now Ig

 

[NeonTxme]

here

oh I meant the Yoruichi scan

 

[HelloThere1089]

All three realms are mentioned to be triplets made of separating the Infinite primordial sea. Both the SS and TWOTL had direct statements and showings about celestial bodies and astronomical objects (be it ranging from outerspaces to other galaxies)--both had direct conformations about being a universe through direct statements. (cough cough)

Could you please send me these scans or a link where all of them are? Also the thread where the realms being universal was accepted in the wiki? Thanks in advance.

 

[Soulking22334]

we already have calcs for Las Noches size linked in the main page, and maybe some other calcs in character's profiles. But all of them are quite outdated as of now Ig

its based on the statement < kubo doesn't draw the backgrounds himself

oh I meant the Yoruichi scan

https://ek10.wowpic1.store/i5/bEqPbYfoMT0Gm23kc1KfoApMzrEFZuKi3R0VvpbI6y4EkS5FIHyEz7PI11FmpSw?8

 

[NeonTxme]

its based on the statement < kubo doesn't draw the backgrounds himself

we have a direct size for columns in the guidebooks... lemme find it rq

 

[Soulking22334]

Also the thread where the realms being universal was accepted in the wiki? Thanks in advance.

where do you think 2-c yhwach and psk came from?

 

[HelloThere1089]

where do you think 2-c yhwach and psk came from?

I am literally asking for a link to that CRT......what do you not understanding in this? I never questioned the ratings themselves.

 

[PizzaDante67]

Are we seriously arguing about the size of the realms now???