BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[Peter1129]

I explained the reason. Kira, Nanao, and Wounded Shunsui all have counter-feats. Just because the attack's area of effect is larger doesn't necessarily mean it will be more powerful.

Bruh. Kira never fought Lille in his 3rd/Final Volstandig. He fought a heavily weakened Lille after losing his powers as stated by himself. Shunsui dodged via his shadow ability which has always had some fast transportation speed. Not to mention by this logic Lille in his 2nd Volstandig couldn't tag a less tired Shunsui outside of the first time he shot Shunsui that also paralyzed him in place even though that form is clearly stronger than Base Lille. And Lille clearly reacts faster than Nanao multiple times and only gave her a chance to get close and cut him because he was arrogant and allowed her to get close. You'll need to make a CRT if you actually believe the golden Volstandig form is somehow weaker than his normal green Volstandig.

 

[Specterxxxx]

All this information just puts lille above Askin which you could probably get to 4A from scaling to urahara, it doesn't do anything else besides that

 

[Peter1129]

All this information just puts lille above Askin which you could probably get to 4A from scaling to urahara, it doesn't do anything else besides that

That's still way better than what Lille is at right now in that form. It's always been weird seeing Lille in his 3rd Volstandig not being tier 4 when Askin is even though he should be weaker than Lille based on how the narrative treats the two of them. Though I was originally thinking more so scaling him to Chrysalis Aizen which seems to be where the base transcendence scaling began.

 

[Soulking22334]

All this information just puts lille above Askin which you could probably get to 4A from scaling to urahara, it doesn't do anything else besides that

a transcended lille shoud scale to ts ichigo

 

[Specterxxxx]

That's still way better than what Lille is at right now in that form. It's always been weird seeing Lille in his 3rd Volstandig not being tier 4 when Askin is even though he should be weaker than Lille based on how the narrative treats the two of them. Though I was originally thinking more so scaling him to Chrysalis Aizen which seems to be where the base transcendence scaling began.

him scaling to aizen doesn't make sense, that's like scaling shikai yama to aizen because ukitake said yama's flames are transcedent.

a transcended lille shoud scale to ts ichigo

haha

 

[Peter1129]

him scaling to aizen doesn't make sense, that's like scaling shikai yama to aizen because ukitake said yama's flames are transcedent.

haha

Lille's 3rd Volstandig never had any scaling outside of being ridiculously powerful than his previous forms. And even before this Q&A with how often they said he had the power of god which was something only the transcendents like Aizen was said to have in the Unmasked guidebook it always felt to me that Lille in his final form was far above all his previous forms and should've scaled much higher than wherever he's currently at. And I'm pretty sure Chrysalis Aizen was also the one that was stated to be beyond Shinigami limits which seems to be the beginning of transcendence where they transcend one race (Shinigami/Qunicy). Hence why I said I initially assumed he could be scaled to around 2nd Fusion Aizen's level in his 3rd Volstandig.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Bruh. Kira never fought Lille in his 3rd/Final Volstandig. He fought a heavily weakened Lille after losing his powers as stated by himself. Shunsui dodged via his shadow ability which has always had some fast transportation speed. Not to mention by this logic Lille in his 2nd Volstandig couldn't tag a less tired Shunsui outside of the first time he shot Shunsui that also paralyzed him in place even though that form is clearly stronger than Base Lille. And Lille clearly reacts faster than Nanao multiple times and only gave her a chance to get close and cut him because he was arrogant and allowed her to get close. You'll need to make a CRT if you actually believe the golden Volstandig form is somehow weaker than his normal green Volstandig.

Kira's fighting form doesn't just have haxes like abstraction. I don't think Nanao sealing his power gives him an AP-dura reduction.

Furthermore, there's a bigger contradiction. Lille Barro has been a Sternritter for over 1000 years. This means he was defeated in the first Gotei 13 battle. Even if we assume Yamamoto defeated him in that battle 1000 years ago, Yamamoto isn't Transcendent. Or, in that case, he shouldn't have activated this form 1000 years ago. I see no reason why he wouldn't have activated it until his death.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

All this information just puts lille above Askin which you could probably get to 4A from scaling to urahara, it doesn't do anything else besides that

Even if Urahara were interpreted as a 4-A, Askin wouldn't be. Askin fought a Urahara weakened by poison. Besides that, he has counter-feats like taking damage from Grimmjow. According to Part 4 spoilers, Askin was pierced by Grimmjow despite using Blut Venn.

 

[Peter1129]

Kira's fighting form doesn't just have haxes like abstraction. I don't think Nanao sealing his power gives him an AP-dura reduction.

Furthermore, there's a bigger contradiction. Lille Barro has been a Sternritter for over 1000 years. This means he was defeated in the first Gotei 13 battle. Even if we assume Yamamoto defeated him in that battle 1000 years ago, Yamamoto isn't Transcendent. Or, in that case, he shouldn't have activated this form 1000 years ago. I see no reason why he wouldn't have activated it until his death.

Bruh wtf are you even talking about. Lille straight up says he lost his powers which is clear indication that he got weakened.

Dude did you even read what Kubo said.

Q: How come Lille was able to come back in a weird form despite being decapitated and dismembered?

Kubo: Lille is the oldest Quincy to have received Yhwach’s power and has never once lost it since then. For that reason, because the power inside of him had grown excessively, it had started to change his body into something more than human.

Lille's 3rd Volstandig is the result of his powers growing over the course of 1000 years. He never had this power 1000 years ago. Not to mention we don't even know the specifics of what happened 1000 years ago. We don't even see Lille in the original Schutzstaffel.

 

[Specterxxxx]

Lille's 3rd Volstandig never had any scaling outside of being ridiculously powerful than his previous forms. And even before this Q&A with how often they said he had the power of god which was something only the transcendents like Aizen was said to have in the Unmasked guidebook it always felt to me that Lille in his final form was far above all his previous forms and should've scaled much higher than wherever he's currently at. And I'm pretty sure Chrysalis Aizen was also the one that was stated to be beyond Shinigami limits which seems to be the beginning of transcendence where they transcend one race (Shinigami/Qunicy). Hence why I said I initially assumed he could be scaled to around 2nd Fusion Aizen's level in his 3rd Volstandig.

again whatever applies to barro applies to yama and yama doesn't scale to aizen so barro shouldn't either. being called a god or being called transcendent once doesn't compare to the literal narrative and consistent backing aizen has.

 

[Specterxxxx]

Bruh wtf are you even talking about. Lille straight up says he lost his powers which is clear indication that he got weakened.

Dude did you even read what Kubo said.

Q: How come Lille was able to come back in a weird form despite being decapitated and dismembered?

Kubo: Lille is the oldest Quincy to have received Yhwach’s power and has never once lost it since then. For that reason, because the power inside of him had grown excessively, it had started to change his body into something more than human.

Lille's 3rd Volstandig is the result of his powers growing over the course of 1000 years. He never had this power 1000 years ago. Not to mention we don't even know the specifics of what happened 1000 years ago. We don't even see Lille in the original Schutzstaffel.

I agree with this logic, he should scale above any sternrriterr that isn't pernida, gerard, jugram, uryu and gremmy.

 

[Peter1129]

again whatever applies to barro applies to yama and yama doesn't scale to aizen so barro shouldn't either. being called a god or being called transcedence once doesn't compare to the literal narrative and consistent backing aizen has.

Dude Yamamoto's so called transcendent statement clearly isn't talking about him transcending the limits of a race like Aizen. Stop pulling at straws with Yamamoto when he clearly doesn't have any evidence of being transcendent.

Lille actually has narrative backing from Kubo stating he's surpassing human (Quincy) in conjunction with his statement of stepping into the realm of god which only Aizen was ever stated to do in the Unmasked guidebook upon the beginning of his fusion. 3rd Volstandig Lille clearly has far more evidence of being transcendent than Yamamoto.

Also what the heck are you even talking about right now? I'm saying I assumed he would be treated as being around 2nd Fusion Aizen level due to this implied transcendent statement not that he is equal to him. From what I can tell just Lille scaling above Askin is already close enough to where I think he scales with him surpassing the limits of one race.