BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[Arc7Kuroi]

Idk if I’d agree that Adyneus was manipulating the literal concepts of life and death, but rather it’s that there was no mechanism for rebirth and recycling of souls. Hence the stagnation, they remained in the same state. Like he’s not manipulating life and death itself, but by creating a cycle for rebirth of souls, he provided a mechanism that facilitated living beings to die, pass on, and be reborn as souls, rinse and repeat.

Admittedly, it’s been a while since I read CFYOW. Maybe if there’s a statement that’s pretty clear in interpretation that Adyneus manipulated the literal concepts of life and death which gave rise to a transmigratory cycle, as opposed to the inverse (like I stated above) then yeah. But rn I’d lean to disagreeing, based on my understanding of CM1.

 

[Adam1396]

Ehh idk about space time not existing, I believe this needs a very liberal interpretation to reach with the limited information we have right now.

You may be right about soace time not existing but we do have very clear evidence about that strongly suggests even if space time existed, it existed in a different way. So the concept of it has been altered.

 

[Adam1396]

Idk if I’d agree that Adyneus was manipulating the literal concepts of life and death, but rather it’s that there was no mechanism for rebirth and recycling of souls. Hence the stagnation, they remained in the same state. Like he’s not manipulating life and death itself, but by creating a cycle for rebirth of souls, he provided a mechanism that facilitated living beings to die, pass on, and be reborn as souls, rinse and repeat.

Then you should know such introduction of rebirth, recycle would also guarantee CM1 due to verse mechanism if we are being honest about it.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Then you should know such introduction of rebirth, recycle would also guarantee CM1 due to verse mechanism if we are being honest about it.

I don’t think that’s how it works, but you should seek out more knowledgeable people on CM for a concrete answer

 

[Adam1396]

I don’t think that’s how it works, but you should seek out more knowledgeable people on CM for a concrete answer

I myself is knowledgeabke enough on this. I am pretty confident on almost every abilities, only thing I lack knowledge about is tier 1B, 1A on this wiki.

It works exactly like that. That's why you see characters having CM1 because of manipulating magic circle, rules, source etc depending on the verse.
Here in bleach all of em are participating in the concept of rebirth. Remove it everybody would become immortal.

How it worked doesn’t matter. Death didn’t exist, now exist that's what matter.
It would be a stupid idea to think just removing the boundaries would alter the laws and concepts of the worlds. Even if that's how yhwach gonna achieve it, he would still gain those abilities.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Well if that’s the case, it should have no problem getting accepted

 

[Infinite9Luck]

I was reading through the abilities pages on the wiki, and I do think that Bleach characters who possess transcendent reiatsu or can become the Soul King should be considered for some level of conceptual manipulation.

However, a proper post should be created bringing together all the relevant examples. For instance, the Soul King may have created the concepts of life and death by separating the worlds and applying different laws to them. Before his intervention, Hollows were erasing each other from existence entirely, without the cycle of souls that exists now with laws applied by the Soul King.

Aizen being able to erase the Kototsu completely when normal reiatsu can't, should also help this case since Gin stated the Kototsu is a being of reason.

This should show Bleach characters can influence to a degree some concepts, at leats the one with transcendent reiatsu.

Wouldn't be strange as well since Ichibei can, and the Soul King was stated to transcend him.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

What would happen if Ichibe used his bankai to write 無/nothing; naught; nought; nil; zero on his opponent?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

What would happen if Ichibe used his bankai to write 無/nothing; naught; nought; nil; zero on his opponent?

They become zero on a metaphysical level

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Probably the same thing that would happen to them as with Futen Taisatsuryo, where he completely erases his opponent

 

[Adam1396]

I myself is knowledgeabke enough on this. I am pretty confident on almost every abilities, only thing I lack knowledge about is tier 1B, 1A on this wiki.

It works exactly like that. That's why you see characters having CM1 because of manipulating magic circle, rules, source etc depending on the verse.
Here in bleach all of em are participating in the concept of rebirth. Remove it everybody would become immortal.

How it worked doesn’t matter. Death didn’t exist, now exist that's what matter.
It would be a stupid idea to think just removing the boundaries would alter the laws and concepts of the worlds. Even if that's how yhwach gonna achieve it, he would still gain those abilities.

I guess so. But let us know if you have any more info from novels that can help with that.

I will have grand kids by the time decieve finishes his conceptual bleach threads.

 

[Adam1396]

I was reading through the abilities pages on the wiki, and I do think that Bleach characters who possess transcendent reiatsu or can become the Soul King should be considered for some level of conceptual manipulation.

However, a proper post should be created bringing together all the relevant examples. For instance, the Soul King may have created the concepts of life and death by separating the worlds and applying different laws to them. Before his intervention, Hollows were erasing each other from existence entirely, without the cycle of souls that exists now with laws applied by the Soul King.

Aizen being able to erase the Kototsu completely when normal reiatsu can't, should also help this case since Gin stated the Kototsu is a being of reason.

This should show Bleach characters can influence to a degree some concepts, at leats the one with transcendent reiatsu.

Wouldn't be strange as well since Ichibei can, and the Soul King was stated to transcend him.

Good suggestion.

There's already an ongoing thread on this.
It directly coincides with wiki definition for needing CM to destroy such abstract beings. How npi potent enough to interact with AE 1 (memory) is irrelevant to kototsu. It's also similar to ichibei's zankpakuto.
While we literally have characters on this wiki having CM1 for interacting with mental abstraction AE 1 without any exclusive verse settings.

Reason destroyer Aizen

In the link you can see aizen destroys dangai cleaner , which is a being of reason and can't be interaxted with reatsu as stated by Gin. It was further clarified by databook dangai cleaner is the governor of space time. And aizen destroyed dangai cleaner to demonstrate his power surpasses...

vsbattles.com

They should have decent degree of CM and resistance to it. Their feats implies as such yeah.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Ichigo with no toes vs Naruto with no fingers

Narutoes vs Ichy Fingers, who's will get sucked first?

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Probably the same thing that would happen to them as with Futen Taisatsuryo, where he completely erases his opponent

Know where there is a good clip of the Futen Taisatsuryo that isn't an AMV?

 

[AppleLord]

Nice. Humans don’t breathe ectoplasm. Souls in Bleach do.

ChatGpT:

If a Bleach character says something like “the ectoplasm is so thin it’s hard to breathe,” they’re not talking about oxygen—at least, not in the normal human sense.

Instead, it’s most likely a metaphorical way to say the spiritual energy (reishi) in the area is weak, thin, or unstable. Since spiritual beings in Bleach “breathe” or exist through reishi, a place with low spiritual density might feel suffocating, weakening, or disorienting—like how humans feel at high altitudes with low oxygen.

So, he’s not talking about oxygen, but he might be using the word “breathe” metaphorically to express how hard it is to function spiritually in that place.

 

[AppleLord]

I would implore you to think about what is being stated by Yammy.

He is saying that the "ectoplasm" is so thin within the atmosphere, that it is hard for him to breathe. What thing would a being who has lugs, and uses those lugs to breathe a particular substance that allows them to continue on living, be called? It cannot be this hard for you to understand that it would be Air...

Like, it's the reason why characters throughout the series, when they're tired, start breathing in and out to replenish themselves.

It's the reason why particular techniques even work in the first place, like fire-based abilities.

Hell, it's even directly stated to exist in Zangetsu's spiritual world.

Are you genuinely going to hold the position that Reishi constitutes literal atoms and sub-atomic particles like Sunlight or Electricity, but for some arbitrary reason, it wouldn't constitute one of the most prominent and important molecule for continued survival on planet Earth?

The double standard to just wank Bleach characters the most unsupported ways possible never ceases to amaze me...

That link doesn’t mention anything about reishi oxygen.

 

[GOATMAN1232000]

Idk if I’d agree that Adyneus was manipulating the literal concepts of life and death, but rather it’s that there was no mechanism for rebirth and recycling of souls. Hence the stagnation, they remained in the same state. Like he’s not manipulating life and death itself, but by creating a cycle for rebirth of souls, he provided a mechanism that facilitated living beings to die, pass on, and be reborn as souls, rinse and repeat.

Admittedly, it’s been a while since I read CFYOW. Maybe if there’s a statement that’s pretty clear in interpretation that Adyneus manipulated the literal concepts of life and death which gave rise to a transmigratory cycle, as opposed to the inverse (like I stated above) then yeah. But rn I’d lean to disagreeing, based on my understanding of CM1.

Hisagi's Bankai is said to be similar the conditions of the primordial world.

In the circumstance where life was forced into stagnation, there was, ironically, a world with no boundary between life and death.

It may have resembled the form of the world before the Soul Society had been born.

 

[Adam1396]

Can someone tell me how can I highlight some specific lines from a wiki page?

 

[Adam1396]

I'm thinking of make a CRT for CM1 type for Prime Adyneus and by extension Yhwach. Looking at the definition of CM1 it seems pretty obvious to me. What do yall think?

You can think of ichibei's governing over blackness.
1. It's reality predating concept. Ichibei also owned that before the creation of realities literally as stated he appeared with his special power along with others.

2. Blackness is nothingness. Ichibei summoned blackness from future century night as well (not just from physical things from present), blackening name affected inner world zangetsu as well. Which shows his absolute dominion over the concept.

3. Blackness can technically outdate the realities as well.

(Shikai, bankai was also modeled after his zankpakuto. I don’t know how it works since the concept of such weapon also predates realaties though it probably was refered as zankpakuto after reality creation. Still shows the concept was taken from a predating concept)

 

[Adam1396]

I have another thing to discuss.

1. Space time and other concepts like progression, regression etc esisted in primordial world. But the concept of it was vastly different than as it is now since it was chaos. No progression, regression. But swayed and pro. Nothing was defined properly.
So he had to define such platonic concepts properly.
CM1 manipulation

 

[Ebihara]

Can someone tell me how can I highlight some specific lines from a wiki page?

like linking to a spefiec part like this https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/M...rally cannot do anything due to being a point. ?

if so highlight the part of the text you wish to link to and highlight and then right click "copy link to highlight"

 

[Adam1396]

like linking to a spefiec part like this https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/M...rally cannot do anything due to being a point. ?

if so highlight the part of the text you wish to link to and highlight and then right click "copy link to highlight"

This works. Or directly linking some lines which would directly appear as lines in the comment instead of a link

 

[Johner2133451]

Ok guys I gave Yhwach his conceptual absorption in his Almighty key due to a recently accepted CRT. Need any minor changes?

Yhwach

Yhwach (ユーハバッハ, Yūhabahha?) is the Father of the Quincy, the monarch of the Wandenreich, and the son of the Soul King, known by the designation "A" - The Almighty. As a baby, Yhwach was incapable of sight, speech, or even the slightest movement, but never feared or despaired, as he knew he would...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Johner2133451]

This works. Or directly linking some lines which would directly appear as lines in the comment instead of a link

Btw Finepoint closed the thread so Yhwach's CM absorption stuck at type 3. But we can have @Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye's upcoming CM type 1 CRT to upscale the CM absorption type

 

[Adam1396]

Btw Finepoint closed the thread so Yhwach's CM absorption stuck at type 3. But we can have @Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye's upcoming CM type 1 CRT to upscale the CM absorption type

It won't upscale Concept absorption beyond type 2.

Yes. OG reio I forgot his name and ichibei should have CM1 due to blackness concept. I thought about making it today. I will wait for sig's CRT.

Btw did you see aizen's revision thread. They literally just going against it for the sake of it (politicizing as someone mentioned) instead of addressing my points. They even made up something like it's aizen's reatsu killed the kototsu when it's complete against the evidences lmfao

 

[Johner2133451]

It won't upscale Concept absorption beyond type 2.

Yes. OG reio I forgot his name and ichibei should have CM1 due to blackness concept. I thought about making it today. I will wait for sig's CRT.

Btw did you see aizen's revision thread. They literally just going against it for the sake of it (politicizing as someone mentioned) instead of addressing my points. They even made up something like it's aizen's reatsu killed the kototsu when it's complete against the evidences lmfao

I saw some were rimuru fans that were mad at your comments, threatening to downgrade their verse

We shouldn't pick a fight atm as upgrades can be attacked via stonewalling

 

[PedjaTarzan]

I saw some were rimuru fans that were mad at your comments, threatening to downgrade their verse

We shouldn't pick a fight atm as upgrades can be attacked via stonewalling

powerscaling is NOT that serious

 

[Hellscream]

powerscaling is NOT that serious

some people do take it that serious lol

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

It won't upscale Concept absorption beyond type 2.

Yes. OG reio I forgot his name and ichibei should have CM1 due to blackness concept. I thought about making it today. I will wait for sig's CRT.

Btw did you see aizen's revision thread. They literally just going against it for the sake of it (politicizing as someone mentioned) instead of addressing my points. They even made up something like it's aizen's reatsu killed the kototsu when it's complete against the evidences lmfao

You can make it if you like, I’ve not started on anything. If I see anything missing in your crt I can just post it

 

[Adam1396]

You can make it if you like, I’ve not started on anything. If I see anything missing in your crt I can just post it

I just closed my laptop
I am planning on only ichibei's one first.

Reio's one needs a lot of scans which would take time.

Reio defined and set up the orders of things like soul flow, progression, stagnation, space, time. He literally set everything in motion from a chaotic world.
He should have CM 1 as well. When I see others getting CM1 for dimbest feats, this shouldn’t hurt

 

[Adam1396]

You can make it if you like, I’ve not started on anything. If I see anything missing in your crt I can just post it

But are you sure names are type 2 concept?
Because ikkomikidomoe has CM 3 resistance for resisting ichibei's ability.

Also reio title itself is different than other names. This single name is literally holding all of realities.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

But are you sure names are type 2 concept?
Because ikkomikidomoe has CM 3 resistance for resisting ichibei's ability.

Also reio title itself is different than other names. This single name is literally holding all of realities.

• Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2; Yhwach was able to restore his own name and powers after Ichibē had cut it with Ichimonji.

Yhwach already had CM2 in Base for restoring his name.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

How would Zanka no Tachi: South work if Yama had never met his opponent before no killed anyone they knew?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

How would Zanka no Tachi: South work if Yama had never met his opponent before no killed anyone they knew?

It resurrects people Yamamoto has killed, so if he’s killed 0 people it won’t do anything

 

[Adam1396]

• Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2; Yhwach was able to restore his own name and powers after Ichibē had cut it with Ichimonji.

Yhwach already had CM2 in Base for restoring his name.

I know that. But why is it type 3 on ikomikidomoe's profile?

Also can you slightly share your thoughts on reio's CM 1?

 

[Giannysmag]

Hey all, I recently started reading through the series (just finished Vol 9 infact) and I'm really enjoying it so far but I do have one question about the scaling. After unlocking Zangetsu Ichigo's slash is so strong that it would have cut Urahara's arm off if he didn't shield himself. However Soul Society Arc Ichigo is rated 7-B while Kisuke's first key is 6-B, is there a reason for this?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Hey all, I recently started reading through the series (just finished Vol 9 infact) and I'm really enjoying it so far but I do have one question about the scaling. After unlocking Zangetsu Ichigo's slash is so strong that it would have cut Urahara's arm off if he didn't shield himself. However Soul Society Arc Ichigo is rated 7-B while Kisuke's first key is 6-B, is there a reason for this?

His 6-B key is based on the Arrancar arc onwards.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I know that. But why is it type 3 on ikomikidomoe's profile?

Also can you slightly share your thoughts on reio's CM 1?

I believe this is likely outdated. You can ask Arc or Decieved I believe one of them made that profile. It was probably forgotten when Ichibei was upgraded to type 2.

As for Reio CM1, I believe because life and death were separated by Adyneus. This too me seems to be an all encompassing concept since it affects all of creation. Unless there is something I’m missing regardless wether he created the very concepts or simply altered them it would scale to him if accepted as CM1.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Hey all, I recently started reading through the series (just finished Vol 9 infact) and I'm really enjoying it so far but I do have one question about the scaling. After unlocking Zangetsu Ichigo's slash is so strong that it would have cut Urahara's arm off if he didn't shield himself. However Soul Society Arc Ichigo is rated 7-B while Kisuke's first key is 6-B, is there a reason for this?

That scene is foreshadowing Ichigo’s potential, rather than being a consistently accurate portrayal of his power at the time. You’ll see as you keep reading that Urahara states that that Ichigo there is only like 3rd-4th seat level, and Kisuke is blatantly captain level. So it’s just not consistent to say Ichigo’s normal power is there yet. Kisuke also gets stronger throughout the series too, he begins the series in a rusty state similar to Yoruichi.

But if you’re still not buying it, Kisuke’s 6-B scaling comes from the Arrancar arc which happens after Soul Society anyway

 

[Giannysmag]

I see thanks yall. Glad to hear Urahara actually gets stronger through the series, this guy is way too cool to be powercrept by Ichigo two arcs in.