Bakugo fights a really explosive kid GRACE

[Ronin119]

So basically i see this fight in 3 ways:

1. Bakugo kills Klee before she can use sparks n' splash with his superior AP, skill and range

2. Bakugo kills Klee after she used sparks n' splash and both end up dying

3. Klee puts up a shield and basically ends with a stalemate

There's no real way i see klee winning because of the massive range difference, and although bakugo can win, it's the most unlikely way for the fight to end, the other 2 are incon with the most likely being the shield stalemate.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

May I see an image for Tartaglia no selling a hit from someone comparable to him as well as where the claim that they can keep shields up forever comes from.

 

[Ronin119]

Ok, so is he immune to all physical damage or not

Basically long stroy short, hes a boss in the game and also a playable character, in his boss fight he can put up a shield that no sells physical and hydro attacks coming at him, you need other elements to break it like electro, pyro, cyro, anemo and geo, or its unbreakable until he brings the sheild down on his own term

 

[Solacis]

So basically i see this fight in 3 ways:

1. Bakugo kills Klee before she can use sparks n' splash with his superior AP, skill and range

2. Bakugo kills Klee after she used sparks n' splash and both end up dying

3. Klee puts up a shield and basically ends with a stalemate

There's no real way i see klee winning because of the massive range difference, and although bakugo can win, it's the most unlikely way for the fight to end, the other 2 are incon with the most likely being the shield stalemate.

Match can't end in a stalemate cuz supposedly Bakugo's body is breaking down from having OFA. So if Klee uses the shield at all, which is extremely likely if Bakugo attacks first, then Klee wins via outlasting him.

And again, Klee's C4 isn't activated on death, even in-game. It's just a special explosive formula that's over 5x stronger than her normal bombs.

 

[Solacis]

Basically long stroy short, hes a boss in the game and also a playable character, in his boss fight he can put up a shield that no sells physical and hydro attacks coming at him, you need other elements to break it like electro, pyro, cyro, anemo and geo, or its unbreakable until he brings the sheild down on his own term

Even with other elements, that shield doesn't go down easy.

 

[Solacis]

May I see an image for Tartaglia no selling a hit from someone comparable to him as well as where the claim that they can keep shields up forever comes from.

Shields are equivalent with blocking for Vision-users, as is displayed by both Amber and Childe. The bigger the AP gap, the harder to maintain the shield, which is why Amber was exhausted whereas Childe found it easy. Considering Bakugo has lower AP than Klee, her shield would be effortlessly maintained.

Childe's shield no-sells several attacks from the Traveler, who is notably stronger AP-wise than the latter's base form.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Basically long stroy short, hes a boss in the game and also a playable character, in his boss fight he can put up a shield that no sells physical and hydro attacks coming at him, you need other elements to break it like electro, pyro, cyro, anemo and geo, or its unbreakable until he brings the sheild down on his own term

Is this a common thing for EVERYONE that makes these shields or just him? Is it not possible he just has a different shield for that boss fight? Or that it’s just game mechanics? Do all the characters in Genshin also become just flat out immune to physical damage if they have this shield?

Shields are equivalent with blocking for Vision-users, as is displayed by both Amber and Childe. The bigger the AP gap, the harder to maintain the shield, which is why Amber was exhausted whereas Childe found it easy. Considering Bakugo has lower AP than Klee, her shield would be effortlessly maintained.

Childe's shield no-sells several attacks from the Traveler, who is notably stronger AP-wise than the latter's base form.

My issue here is why does anyone else scale to his shield specifically. From what I’m understanding, this guy amps himself and then has a shield that blocks attacks. Isn’t that simply they can’t break his shield because he’s stronger than them? Could his base form negate physical attacks too? Do all bosses do that? If not, why?

 

[Solacis]

Is this a common thing for EVERYONE that makes these shields or just him? Is it not possible he just has a different shield for that boss fight? Or that it’s just game mechanics? Do all the characters in Genshin also become just flat out immune to physical damage if they have this shield?



My issue here is why does anyone else scale to his shield specifically. From what I’m understanding, this guy amps himself and then has a shield that blocks attacks. Isn’t that simply they can’t break his shield because he’s stronger than them? Could his base form negate physical attacks too? Do all bosses do that? If not, why?

Childe's shield is in no way indicated to be different from the normal shields used by all Allogenes. Those with special shields are people like Noelle, Diona or Zhongli. Childe's is a basic elemental shield of the same nature as Amber's.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Childe's shield is in no way indicated to be different from the normal shields used by all Allogenes. Those with special shields are people like Noelle, Diona or Zhongli. Childe's is a basic elemental shield of the same nature as Amber's.

So does every boss with a shield also negate physical attacks? Did his base form negate physical attacks?

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

Klee FRA

 

[Solacis]

So does every boss with a shield also negate physical attacks? Did his base form negate physical attacks?

It's a forcefield. It's less so outright invulnerability and more so just manifesting a barrier that can be forcefully broken given a strong enough hit.

It just so happens that Bakugo is nowhere near strong enough to break Klee's shield.

Also no, Childe is the only boss with a shield. But yes, he can use his shield in base form. As I've said before, it is literally the same as Amber's shield except Hydro. Idk why you keep bringing up Childe when we're scaling shield potency to Amber, and he was only an example of how easily shields are used.

 

[Jackpact]

Well we are assuming that Klee instantly use her shield here and it's not the case, also wouldn't her moral mess with her as Jean teach her to not hurt people only monster? Anyway the way i see it fight start off Bakugo throw an explosion that launch Klee of and ragdoll her around, this would cause confusion and headache as she has not fought against anything that can ragdoll her around or attack from great distance, Bakugo do that many time and eventually Klee goes unconcious and he could just nuke her body and he win. If Klee pull up barrier immediately cause it's a human not a monster than she win cause she will know that he is normally stronger than her, her bomb won't reach him while her spark will only cause Bakugo to be more aware of his surrounding and fight cautiously which will be the end of him due to OFA.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

It's a forcefield. It's less so outright invulnerability and more so just manifesting a barrier that can be forcefully broken given a strong enough hit.

It just so happens that Bakugo is nowhere near strong enough to break Klee's shield.

Also no, Childe is the only boss with a shield. But yes, he can use his shield in base form. As I've said before, it is literally the same as Amber's shield except Hydro. Idk why you keep bringing up Childe when we're scaling shield potency to Amber, and he was only an example of how easily shield are used.

Ok, but the claim is that she can keep it up for extended periods of time, enough so that she cannot ever be harmed the entire fight if she just does that. Where is that claim coming from. If the shield is just somewhat stronger than she is, why can he not break it by punching it repeatedly? It’s not so much stronger than her that the strength difference is absurd, isn’t it? Or is it? You’re not exactly telling me the important details of this shield.

Also, you keep bringing him up as an example for them using their shields a lot, but why does what he do matter for Klee?

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Also, the boss guys shield does matter, because the claim that Bakugo’s punches don’t affect the shield come from the boss no selling physical attacks with his shield, which I’m certain is just an effect of his amp considering his base doesn’t seem to do this.

From what I’ve gathered, the shields they make are for blocking their respective elements, not someone running up and punching them. If that’s incorrect, please direct me to where they do use it in that manner.

 

[Jackpact]

Well for starter all basic allogenes shield are identical and only differ if they made it from their skill like Noelle, Zhongli and diona, just like ingame the shield can absorb both physical and elemental damage as the monster that fought Amber have knowledge about alogenes and it doesn't immediately attack her physically which mean the shield can block physical contact.
The shield can be put up as long as the allogenes have the elemental energy for it and she have alot judging from her damage output, the shield also is stronger than her in her entirety which include that 5.55x amp and it can withstand attck from character that can stomp them as shown with Amber.
Childe boss fight have him errect 2 barrier, one when he change into his dillusion which make him completely invulnerable either from magical or physical while the other is one can be destroyed by elemental or extreme physical attack as it only break under claymore user attack which is the hardest hitting physical attack among all the known weapon type.

 

[Jackpact]

It can also break if the physical attack is strong enough and numerous enough to overpower it which isn't the case here as he doesn't come any close to her shield minimum output.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Well for starter all basic allogenes shield are identical and only differ if they made it from their skill like Noelle, Zhongli and diona, just like ingame the shield can absorb both physical and elemental damage as the monster that fought Amber have knowledge about alogenes and it doesn't immediately attack her physically which mean the shield can block physical contact.
The shield can be put up as long as the allogenes have the elemental energy for it and she have alot judging from her damage output, the shield also is stronger than her in her entirety which include that 5.55x amp and it can withstand attck from character that can stomp them as shown with Amber.
Childe boss fight have him errect 2 barrier, one when he change into his dillusion which make him completely invulnerable either from magical or physical while the other is one can be destroyed by elemental or extreme physical attack as it only break under claymore user attack which is the hardest hitting physical attack among all the known weapon type.

So did the monster not attack her physically BECAUSE the barrier would block it or because it had another way around the barrier? It just not choosing a certain way to get past it doesn’t mean the sole reason for that is because other methods wouldn’t work. Exception of usage doesn’t mean an absence of possibility.

Ok, but that’s in reference to attacks that are pyro, correct? Why would it be the same level of effectiveness for just straight physical attacks? Like, if an opposing element that was 8x her in strength crashed against the barrier, would she just get one shot? Why is the assumption that physical attacks are just as negated as pyro?

So he had specific barriers barricading physical attacks, something Klee doesn’t have. So she’s operating purely on her base forcefield blocking physical attacks. So any feats from him are a non factor.

It can also break if the physical attack is strong enough and numerous enough to overpower it which isn't the case here as he doesn't come any close to her shield minimum output.

So wait, it CAN break? When has this occurred? You’re claiming that the barrier can tank hits over 5x herself in AP, when does it break then? Who has broken these barriers with physical strength?

 

[Kingofwolves999]

To begin with, I think you guys need to make a crt for these forcefields to put them on their profiles. You’re claiming that these characters have durability over 5x what is on their profile via force fields, that’s quite an important fact you should take into account before hopping into vs battles.

 

[Jackpact]

The monster straight up didn't attack her physically or elementally until she drop her barrier which mean it does stop both, the assumption can be made if there are alot of visual clue pointing toward it and also gameplay mechanic does sometime apply like the character skill or elemental reaction, the shield which is also the same thing as the one created via geo crystalisation also block both though it's weaker than an actual elemental shield as it only is a remnant of elemental energy crystalise into a temporary shield that will vanish once it duration hit.

Nope it's both, it took the same level of damage in either elemental or physical to break the shield. Well no as some of the damage would already dissipate and the shockwave would just send her flying. Beacause it take as much damage in physical as it took from elemental to break childe weaker more frequent shield ingame but the base one that he erect in base to change form is straight up can't as there isn't enough time and that is the full power shield that are discussing not the flimsy one in the second phase.

The barrier that block physical is the same one that block elemental and is also the same one he use in base albeit weaker cause he didn't erect it full force like in base to change form.

A simple demonstration is the abyss mage who got one shoted by Diluc using Dawn which is a total of 8x his ap which is massively upscale from 4.08 megaton while the abyss mage is only baseline 2.04 megaton and also have a elemental shield on them, those are basically the same shield if not weaker than the normal one as the abyss mage need to do a small ritual to create it while allogenes only need to summon it, but it can still block elemental and physical attack, some are weaker than other in certain aspect but they're still the same elemental shield. Heck Diluc was so above them in base ap and elemental abilities that he literally overpower the flame shield flame resistance, the same Diluc that Klee scale above as Klee is the one with the most firepower in monstadt, which would translate to stronger even stronger shield.

 

[Jackpact]

Yeah we need to discuss about the barrier and ap amp more to be honest, i brought it up but no one seem to care.

Edit: there are those who do but we need way more opinion than like 3, me included.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Yeah we need to discuss about the barrier and ap amp more to be honest, i brought it up but no one seem to care.

Edit: there are those who do but we need way more opinion than like 3, me included.

Bro, just make a crt and find a mod

 

[Jackpact]

I don't know how to make the crt and if the rest in the discussion thread doesn't agreed to it then it would just be pointless to make something that would get shut down instantly, it need to be discussed further or we can't make it. If the match won't be concluded unless we have the correct value for the barrier than just postpone it until genshin amp and barrier multiplier are settled.

 

[Solacis]

Yeah we need to discuss about the barrier and ap amp more to be honest, i brought it up but no one seem to care.

Edit: there are those who do but we need way more opinion than like 3, me included.

There's nothing to discuss. The barrier's potency and ease of use is established. And as for the AP boost, we only use clearly stated multipliers, not talent scaling which only you are using.

Ok, but the claim is that she can keep it up for extended periods of time, enough so that she cannot ever be harmed the entire fight if she just does that. Where is that claim coming from. If the shield is just somewhat stronger than she is, why can he not break it by punching it repeatedly? It’s not so much stronger than her that the strength difference is absurd, isn’t it? Or is it? You’re not exactly telling me the important details of this shield.

The shield works like any forcefield does. I don't see what's so complex about this. It works exactly like a wall: you can't hurt the person on the other side until you break it.

And it CAN break. No one here has said it can't, just that it takes a lot more than what Bakugo can dish out in a short span of time, because Klee's shield can tank attacks much stronger than her full power before it breaks, and this is even more so the case with fire or explosion-based attacks like Bakugo's. Bakugo most certainly can run up and punch the shield instead to break it significantly easier, but when it does, she can easily recast it only a short time later.

Bakugo can certainly land some hits in the time her shield is broken, but let's not forget that Klee has bombs over 4x stronger than Bakugo's explosions which are capable of obliterating him the moment he gets close, which he'll have to in order to break her shield with his punches.

 

[Jackpact]

I don't see any harm in using skill scaling when we use constellation, but if we aren't using it this match then i won't argue that, still some of my point about Diluc still stand even without the multiplier. Anyway looking closely at it, i vote for Klee, she could try to fight Bakugo but since they are in-character and in character Klee doesn't want and is afraid of hurting people which Bakugo is, chances are she will put up the shield and just stay there and play defensively unless she is pressed.

Edit: unless sba mean they break their moral code and character to go in and kill each other which i guess Bakugo then as one blast and the unsuspected Klee would be flung into a knock out combo.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Bump

 

[Jackpact]

What are the vote count?

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Well no one has really made actual votes in a while or changed their votes unless I scanned pst the arguments to quickly
So it’s
Bakugo: 0
Klee : 1 Solacis
Incon: Ronin (Since he didn’t actually change his vote to my knowledge or confirm he’s sticking with incon)

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

I voted for Klee earlier

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

I voted for Klee earlier

I'll count that now

 

[Jackpact]

Well no one has really made actual votes in a while or changed their votes unless I scanned pst the arguments to quickly

Really, i literally change my vote above your bump comment. Any way change my vote to Klee for Her mentality would lead her to put up barrier first thing.

 

[Ronin119]

Can 100% full cowl kill Bakugo if he over uses it? if so then I'll change my vote to Klee and if not then I'll keep incon

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Really, i literally change my vote above your bump comment. Any way change my vote to Klee for Her mentality would lead her to put up barrier first thing.

lmfao damn i really didn't look that hard did I
But counted

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Can 100% full cowl kill Bakugo if he over uses it? if so then I'll change my vote to Klee and if not then I'll keep incon

Yeah hes basically dying as he uses it pretty much
And big attacks from him weaken him more and more and doesn't have the pain tolerance of deku to shrug it off as well

 

[Ronin119]

Well I guess Klee's shield really does screw Bakugo over then,

Klee FRA

 

[Kingofwolves999]

From what I’m understanding, there is no win condition for Bakugo and the match is a stomp, as would be literally any match with a Genshin character that directly negs his entire power.

You’ve put a version of Bakugo that is dying every second and can’t fight for long against someone with not only higher stats than him, but perfect counters to literally the only things he is capable of doing. In what scenario other than pipe dreams where she acts out of character does she lose? He literally is going to die in minutes, what is he expected to do to win here? Even assuming she doesn’t use the barrier ever, he at best gets incon considering he’s going to die in this state regardless.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Like, this ability legit shuts down any Low 7-B character attempting to fight any Genshin character unless they have hax. You’re claiming they have a shield that’s like 30 megatons in durability from any attack, yet isn’t mentioned on any of their profiles. That’s quite a ridiculous thing to spring mid debate that “oh the opponent can’t actually hurt them because they block with a shield 6x stronger than themselves that they can keep up indefinitely.”

 

[Jackpact]

Not really, an immortal can go play hide and seek till the allogenes die of old age or stall the battle to extremity with limitless stamina to wait for them to tire out and kill them.

 

[Jackpact]

And he do have a wincon, it's just that said wincon need Klee to act out of character but still a wincon anyway.

 

[Solacis]

Like, this ability legit shuts down any Low 7-B character attempting to fight any Genshin character unless they have hax. You’re claiming they have a shield that’s like 30 megatons in durability from any attack, yet isn’t mentioned on any of their profiles. That’s quite a ridiculous thing to spring mid debate that “oh the opponent can’t actually hurt them because they block with a shield 6x stronger than themselves that they can keep up indefinitely.”

There's nothing ridiculous about it. It's just a particularly strong forcefield. Compared to death hax and similarly broken abilities, this is nothing but a hard counter.

Also this is not a stomp. Bakugo theoretically has a chance if he manages to do something like blind Klee with one of his flashbang explosions, it's just unlikely. Nevertheless, a wincon is a wincon.

 

[Ronin119]

From what I’m understanding, there is no win condition for Bakugo and the match is a stomp, as would be literally any match with a Genshin character that directly negs his entire power.

You’ve put a version of Bakugo that is dying every second and can’t fight for long against someone with not only higher stats than him, but perfect counters to literally the only things he is capable of doing. In what scenario other than pipe dreams where she acts out of character does she lose? He literally is going to die in minutes, what is he expected to do to win here? Even assuming she doesn’t use the barrier ever, he at best gets incon considering he’s going to die in this state regardless.

I mean with his speed amp he might blitz Klee at the beginning before she can shield or sparks n' splash, but its unlikely, but genshin characters aren't immortal with their shield, let's say Todoroki was the same level of power as 100% Bakugo and fought Klee, Todo would probably mid-dif Klee because he has ice attacks that can break the shield, and with his range too he'd win, plus as shown by the tartaglia fight, if a shield does break, the user is left open with no defenses and lost elemental energy from it breaking, if Bakugo used literally anything but explosions like some electric attack, he would break Klee's shield and no dif her from there, the problem is that he has no ability to break the shield and gets screwed because of it.