Azathod

[Saiyan40009]

why we keep putting azathod as equal yoth sothod when the same stories show how yoth sothod is an archetype covers everything the only reason is that it is considered superior to other gods

 

[Ovy7]

From the Mythos revision thread:

Given how the whole message of the story is that individuality is nothing but an illusion inherent to lower realities, as well as how Azathoth and Yog-Sothoth themselves act as complementary counterparts to one another in the context of the cosmology (Yog-Sothoth being all-encompassing and holding all of past, present and future as one within himself, while also simultaneously embodying the Ultimate Gate, and Azathoth being the nucleus who resides at the center of its infinity, governing all of existence from his throne), it's reasonable to say that the Supreme Archetype would be a representation of the two of them, as opposed to being exclusively an equivalent to Yog.

Due to that, it will be inserted as a key on both of their profiles, which naturally scales above the other Archetypes.

 

[Saiyan40009]

that is more an interpretation of the wiki since in the same stories azathod yog zothog is never put as equals the carter stories and much lovecrafht is in charge of putting yog zothod as maximum deity or archetype even that is called azathod nuclei of chaos is more alone one mentioned

 

[ShivaShakti]

that is more a baseless interpretation of the wiki since in the same stories azathod yog zothog is never put as equals the carter stories and much lovecrafht is in charge of putting yog zothod as maximum deity or archetype even that is called azathod nuclei of chaos is more alone one mentioned

I mean its not really a baseless interpretation. Azathoth is hyped up just as much as Yog and even stated to be lord of the ultimate void and all powerful. He's even written by Lovecraft to have birthed Yog in the first place.

 

[Guardian_Doge]

Basically what shiva said.
However, they're equal because they're basically opposite sides of the same coin, without azzy existence can't be dreamed, but without yog it can't be maintained.

 

[Planck69]

Yog-Sothoth and Azathoth are only compared once and in that instance, Azathoth is stated to Yog-Sothoth's "progenitor". Of course, this is more for their Ultimate God selves but the idea that Yog-Sothoth is automatically superior has very little basis in my opinion. Not to mention how Azathoth himself is considered lord of all existence anyway and just as hyped as Yog-Sothoth. It's just less apparent since one has a lot more focus put on him than the other


TL;DR Azathoth and Yog-Sothoth being two sides of a coin makes sense.

 

[Guardian_Doge]

Thanks for summing it up Planck.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Tbh I think a big part of TTGOTSK context is ignored with that.

When Randolph put Yog as above everyone and everything, he already encountered Azatoth, meaning he still put below him Yog. If there were any form of complementarity, the moment where your dude is 100% omniscient would definitely mention it.

Also someone being hyped as all powerful only to have a guy stronger isn't rare anyway

 

[Planck69]

When did he encounter Azathoth?

And he puts the Supreme Archetype above everything, not specifically Yog-Sothoth.

 

[QuasiYuri]

When did he encounter Azathoth?

And he puts the Supreme Archetype above everything, not specifically Yog-Sothoth.

The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath (although he was more taken to him).

The Supreme Archetype is blatantly Yog-Sothoth in the story. Like, the name is litteraly given.

"It was an All-in-One and One-in-All of limitless being and self—not merely a thing of one Space-Time continuum, but allied to the ultimate animating essence of existence’s whole unbounded sweep—the last, utter sweep which has no confines and which outreaches fancy and mathematics alike. It was perhaps that which certain secret cults of earth have whispered of as YOG-SOTHOTH"

 

[Planck69]

The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath (although he was more taken to him).

The Supreme Archetype is blatantly Yog-Sothoth in the story. Like, the name is litteraly given.

"It was an All-in-One and One-in-All of limitless being and self—not merely a thing of one Space-Time continuum, but allied to the ultimate animating essence of existence’s whole unbounded sweep—the last, utter sweep which has no confines and which outreaches fancy and mathematics alike. It was perhaps that which certain secret cults of earth have whispered of as YOG-SOTHOTH"

Nyarlathotep failed to take him there though IIRC. He was rescued before that happened. All he knows is what legends circulate of him.

One of the ways of referring to it is Yog-Sothoth, as well as Beyond One, All-in-One etc. That's not its actual name (it probably doesn't even have one). It's all a slight and fractional perception of what it is (as said in the following sentence even).

In the face of that awful wonder, the quasi-Carter forgot the horror of destroyed individuality. It was an All-in-One and One-in-All of limitless being and self—not merely a thing of one Space-Time continuum, but allied to the ultimate animating essence of existence’s whole unbounded sweep—the last, utter sweep which has no confines and which outreaches fancy and mathematics alike. It was perhaps that which certain secret cults of earth have whispered of as YOG-SOTHOTH, and which has been a deity under other names; that which the crustaceans of Yuggoth worship as the Beyond-One, and which the vaporous brains of the spiral nebulae know by an untranslatable Sign—yet in a flash the Carter-facet realised how slight and fractional all these conceptions are.

Given how Azathoth is described, the lord of all existence and progenitor of all things, it's a reasonable interpretation for him to be one of these perceptions as well.

 

[Saiyan40009]

concido with the argument of yuuto the whole story rando carter tells you yogi is supreme archetype

 

[Planck69]

No, it doesn't. It tells you that Yog-Sothoth is one of the fractional perceptions of the Supreme Archetype, as are the Beyond One and the deity with a name in the form of a sign.

Seriously, just re-read the revision thread and KingPin's blog.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Following.

No, it doesn't. It tells you that Yog-Sothoth is one of the fractional perceptions of the Supreme Archetype, as are the Beyond One and the deity with a name in the form of a sign.

Yeah, that ending portion of TTGoTSK makes it clear that Yog Sothoth is just a snippet of the Supreme Archetype, or just it's lower avatar

 

[QuasiYuri]

No, it doesn't. It tells you that Yog-Sothoth is one of the fractional perceptions of the Supreme Archetype, as are the Beyond One and the deity with a name in the form of a sign.

Seriously, just re-read the revision thread and KingPin's blog.

Reading both doesn't really prevent from being against the use of interpretations which aren't already implied. Although I don't really care much since it changes nothing anyway.

 

[Planck69]

I suppose so.

 

[Saiyan40009]

would give you reason but it is implicit that yog sothog is only a fraction of the supreme archetype the true yog sothod as all history tells you yogh sothod is only known by many names but all entities
Fractionalists like randol cartwr that archetypal randor exists

 

[ShivaShakti]

Tldr

Azathoth is the center and the point, whilst Yog-Sothoth is the circumference. They are the dyad of infinitely large and infinitely small, while The Supreme Archetype is the Monad which bore the dyad.

 

[Planck69]

would give you reason but it is implicit that yog sothog is only a fraction of the supreme archetype the true yog sothod as all history tells you yogh sothod is only known by many names but all entities
Fractionalists like randol cartwr that archetypal randor exists

This is just gibberish so I'm not exactly answering it.

 

[BleedingPeach]

"Content Revision"? This seems more like something that should be in "Questions and Answers". Even "Fun and Games" seems like a good place to be moved this thread.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I'm so confused as to what this is about.

 

[BleedingPeach]

I'm so confused as to what this is about.

Doubts regarding the lovecraftian-verse. I don't think that anything is revised here so... yeah, I'm confused as you are.