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I agree with OP
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Ayanokouji Full Strength Contextualized
- Thread starter Buzzflightyear
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- ayanokouji kiyotaka
- 160
- 42
- Thread starter
- #42
This would mean they would all be relative that's my point bro.
Neither does Ayanokouji which is what he said himself due to his genetics. But in a fight Manabu would win, the same way Ayanokouji did. Physically stronger doesn't equal better fighter .
But that's the premise of my post, the current narrative isn't consistent with what I posted.
That's assumption without statements to support it. All we can go off of is that he ran with full effort and at the end said he could go faster, which we can't quantify to a number, so I think it would likely get a "likely higher" for his travel speed
But that's what I'm not understanding, I posted dozens of statements and you dismissed the ones I posted?
But every student is also doing this he isn't the only person surviving on the island. I wouldn't say Ichinose has superhuman stamina.No, Ayanokouji remained active for 14 days on that same enviroment, there's no peak human or athletic
Thanks bud
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They are not, Housen massacres Albert in every stat, it literally took the whole Ryuen gang (minus Ibuki) to defeat him
And that was with a well thought out plan
Kouenji as stated in the scans prove he is physically superior in both AP and LS to them and has feats that puts him tied to a supressed and weakened Ayanokouji who out-muscled housen while injured who was stated to be superior in stats compared to Albert and Manabu
See above
And we already showed you several scans on why your "thinking" is not correct, more so when you send scans contradicting your own scans
Brother in christ, Ayanokouji literally said he could accelerate even further and was going to, how is this an assumption???
YOU dismissed the ones disproving your points, let's get that right, this whole CRT is based on your own head canons
Yeah but unlike Koji, they aren't being chased after for the entirety of the exam, they are eating, they are drinking, sleeping and not fighting unlike Koji who is just BARELY capable of doing that because he is being chased
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Ok so even if we can't assume that you do realize if his ligaments are not destroyed that only debunks your argument further. If, according to you, Housen and Ayanokouji are relative in strength and Housen stabs Koji through the hand. If Koji's hand hasn't taken damage that would only prove Koji is way more durable. Either way your argument goes out the window.
This is so wrong it's not even worth elaborating
Proven wrong above
Feeling the impact doesn't mean it hurt him lol. Plus in the Official TL he doesn't say he's in pain, that's your unusable Fan TL again.
And yet Housen can manhandle Albert. It's clearly Koji > Housen > Albert as proven more than once to you.
I think this was already shared.
I'm not even sure what to say to this. I mean you do realize the two of them, especially Hiyori, didn't actually restrain him right?
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Do you mind elaborating how so?
OP has presented a bunch of scans he wants to add to the profile for "increased justifications" but most of them are fan TLs that we can't add anyway because there is an official translation that contradicts them.
Additionally, he is presenting arguments that are not consistent with the narrative and existing feats and trying to adjust the scaling chain of the verse in ways that disregard established facts and which contradict proven scans from the Official TL of the LN.
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- Thread starter
- #46
No, he massacres Ryuuen in stats which was stated . Albert was actually stated to be superior in a fight with similar body types. Also they never jumped him, they snuck up on him held his arm in place and he couldn't free himself, then Ryuuen beat him unconscious by himself while Ichizaki and Albert held his arm. The subreddit also had this discussion before and everyone also says Albert is stronger than Housen
It never said he has stronger punching ability, only that he would defeat them. That's not a stats comparison bro
You haven't provided any scans that disprove my scans, you only called them not official while not showing the official versions with different text showing different context, I even included multiple versions. We can't use "trust me bro" as a source when I'm providing the opposite.
I never said it's an assumption I said it's unquantifiable. Saying you go faster only grants you a "higher" at the end of your stat, doesn't change that they are relative like the other characters
Headcanons don't have scans. I provided a scan for every claim I made. And they haven't been refuted with actual scans, just baseless arguing and hostility
Based on the Albert stuff this likely isn't true because everything you are saying he scans show opposite. You said houseb was superior to Albert but the scans says Albert is superior.
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- Thread starter
- #47
I found more scans that would further support that skill level is what separates characters. Albert after catching Housen's punch during an encounter stated that Housen has equal punching power as Ayanokouji, and then says Housen has equal or greater fighting ability than even Ayanokouji, but Ryuuen corrected him and said if it's just "physical strength" they are comparable but said their "overall strength" likely referring to his experience and skill then there is no comparison to which Albert agrees then remembers Ayanokouji is an opponent who is above the normal standard of weight classes, remembering how Ayanokouji used pressure points to overcome the weight difference of his punches not dealing damage like in my OP post.
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- Thread starter
- #49
My argument is basically that the verse is not separated by Attack strength or durability because Ayanokouji says characters can one shot him and he can one shot them and other characters that he attack with full power and it doesn't do much damage. I believe the only stats that have shown separation by tier level is experience, lifting strength and stamina based on the many scans I listed by categories and how it proves Ayanokouji has abnormal lifting strength and stamina but characters can harm him or even one shot him and he can't one shot everyone like the current narrative implies
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OP wants to add new scans and justifications to Ayanokouji's profile and implement a revised scaling chain for the verse. His main point is that Ayanokouji is not physically stronger than most top tiers in the verse, but just surpasses them in skill. Also that his WR key should not be above his ANHS key.
Counterpoints are that all the scans OP is trying to add are from Fan Translations which don't align with the Official Translations and furthermore are contradictory to feats and statements from throughout the LNs. As for Ayanokouji being physically above everyone else in the verse, this has been established a multitude of times in this thread and many others.
As for the WR vs ANHS key, there are scans in this thread which show in multiple different volumes Ayanokouji directly confirming he is much weaker currently than at his peak in the WR.
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- #51
I believe this is where the stalemate lies. I believe the proper thing to do would be to post the official scans to negate each one instead of just saying it's invalid, that doesn't help anyone get the scans their looking for
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I'll try and show all of them but there are a ton of Fan TL scans that have been posted in this thread and most don't include the volume and chapter to help find them so bear with me. Myself and Zetsu have already done this for many of them in this thread but I'll present this as best as I can to show the OTL vs Fan TL side by side.
I'll have to make this into multiple posts since VSBW won't let me keep linking back to your previous posts forever in one message.
The OTL says that while Non White Room people can be talented in certain areas the White Room aimed to make someone skilled in all areas. The "talent they could never produce" refers to the kind of people at ANHS like Kouenji and his personality.
This is an OTL scan. In the scan Koji says he is now going to go even faster, showing he wasn't going all out like you claim.
Here we again confirm that your scaling chain of Koji = Kouenji = Albert in physical strength is broken because Koji confirms Kouenji is evenly matched with him and Kouenji is FAR ABOVE Albert.
This argument was that since 9 y/o Koji was weaker than professional adult fighters and attacked their weakpoints, therefore ANHS Koji is physically weaker than Albert despite the evidence to the contrary? Just above we establish that Koji is at least equal to Kouenji who is above Albert. He is also above Housen who is above Albert.
He can't completely destroy a steel elevator door in one attack but can he make a hole in it. That's textbook wall level.
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He coughed...
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He isn't immune to pain and she stabs him. Idk what the point here is?
That isn't what he said. Ayanokouji never says that he can't take more hits. He says it isn't wise to underestimate someone whose strength he doesn't know.
He was never attacking Ryuuen at full force in this fight.
Not what he said. He didn't say Ryuuen could critically injure him but that he wouldn't take damage by blocking.
Above, he wasn't trying to KO Ryuuen yet.
The problem here is Ayanokouji's goal is to stall Tsukishiro for time without him realizing he is stalling. Plus after several minutes of fighting Tsukishiro says "you will need to catch your breath any minute now" meaning Koji isn't even yet breathing hard but he implies he will be soon.
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Yes, again not sure what this is trying to prove.
I covered a lot of this now. You can also look at these prior posts where I brought up some of your other specific points
or
or
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- #55
Every single scan you listed is the same scans i used. Every single one lol
The first scan you linked says the same thing as the scan i provided so that proves my scans are indeed valid. And he isn't talking about personality. he said "talent" which is physical ability(which I will explain is different than physical strength). He is referring to Koenji having natural gifts. Talent isn't a personality which is why he references sports and academics. not sure where you get personality from.
The albert dura scan you gave also says he dealt minimal damage with his punch validating my point. Just like the first one.
You still aren't understanding the difference between "physical strength" and "physical ability". He says "the two of us really were evenly matched in PHYSICAL STRENGTH, then mentions Koenji's ENTIRE physical ability. including fighting ability, athleticism, flexibility, coordination, and balance. Which is why he said right after than calling him an "Ultra High School Student" isn't enough to describe how talented he is(which goes back to the first reply i said about the school having talented people with physical abilities the WR cant produce). It also proves my point again that Ayanokouji has non white room comparables like that Tsukishiro point made. You want to downplay Albert by using Koenji but it just further proves that the Ayanokouji is quite even in most aspects with different characters while superior to all in experience.
The first scan you linked says the same thing as the scan i provided so that proves my scans are indeed valid. And he isn't talking about personality. he said "talent" which is physical ability(which I will explain is different than physical strength). He is referring to Koenji having natural gifts. Talent isn't a personality which is why he references sports and academics. not sure where you get personality from.
The albert dura scan you gave also says he dealt minimal damage with his punch validating my point. Just like the first one.
He says this race is the first time he ran seriously including the white room. If we will get any progress you have to be genuine, he is clearly going all out, going faster doesnt negate the effort he is putting in.
You still aren't understanding the difference between "physical strength" and "physical ability". He says "the two of us really were evenly matched in PHYSICAL STRENGTH, then mentions Koenji's ENTIRE physical ability. including fighting ability, athleticism, flexibility, coordination, and balance. Which is why he said right after than calling him an "Ultra High School Student" isn't enough to describe how talented he is(which goes back to the first reply i said about the school having talented people with physical abilities the WR cant produce). It also proves my point again that Ayanokouji has non white room comparables like that Tsukishiro point made. You want to downplay Albert by using Koenji but it just further proves that the Ayanokouji is quite even in most aspects with different characters while superior to all in experience.
Nothing was established as I just proved this incorrect once again. Physical strength is not the same as physical ability, which is what i keep trying to make you guys understand. Physical strength and Physical Ability is 2 different things.
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Already debunked this point about physical ability
He never said he can, he said he might be able to. Thats only valid for a "possible". Its not definitive so you can't scale it.
What does this Manabu statement prove? Yes he can go faster but that doesn't negate the fact he said he ran seriously for the first time in his life. He only realized that he could go faster while doing it, which in full context proves he was doing what he told Manabu to do. Go all out. Also and why is this scan valid when you post it but called a fan translation when I use it? i posted this exact same scan and you called it fan madeimgur.com
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My point is that im showing a consistent theme of characters being able to harm him or cause pain regardless if they use heavy force or slight force, because everyone in this verse is around the same physical scaling and only are seperated by their experience and or physical lifting strength. If Koji was 9-Band Suzuna 9-C she shouldn't be able to harm him with a playful punch and he wouldn't emphasize and highlight it if it didn't really hurt him.
Yes he was, and everytime he hit Ryuuen harder than normal he would emphasize by calling it "heavy" or stating how he is by tanking such a hard punch, it would be pointless to highlight it otherwise. You cant ignore parts that make him relative him then highlight others from the same scan.
Im stating these things verbatim with what's written, we can't say he didn't say it when it's right there. That's headcanon
Doesnt deny my point and I already says Koji can one shot Ryuuen but not Albert who Kouji and Albert say is above Ryuuen.
The first scan you provided Ayanokouji is saying if he "trades" with Shiba he would be "stopped" by him then says Shiba has the same power as his own. Which is the same exact scan as mine where I said Shiba has the same AP as Koji. My point was proven again.
Just being honest, every single scan you guys deem as "official" say the exact same things as my scans but was somehow deemed "headcanons". So im even more validated by the response. I will wait for mods to comment and approve of the scaling chain changes.
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RoggerReggor
He/Him- 2,443
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Let's not forget this is the same volume where Kiyotaka introduced himself as a mere normal high schooler with his background even leading to a middle school and was even performing plot deception (a technique where a character deceives the reader).
In reality, Kiyotaka managed to stop Housen who was equipped with a knife at once with a severed hand to the point where Housen couldn't even budge him forward. You are simply proposing an AP =/= Durability here which in fact, is just bad to prove in a verse with characters having human bodies.
LMFAO, why do people still use this after Y2V11?
In Y2V11, Albert compared Kiyotaka to Housen in terms of strength, and that the weight in Housen's attacks was almost the same to that of Kiyotaka, which is correct.
Kiyotaka transcends the concept of heaviness or lightness, and even if he's going "all out" and "not holding back", he's possibly still holding back, because the source of his strength is narratively said to be not that simple, and he can go beyond and deliver damage above his weight of the arm allows him to.
So no, this statement is invalid, Albert never really took an attack from a Kiyotaka who was actually not holding back.
Albert possesses crazy amount of muscle mass, yes. But nowhere in the text you have highlighted or the one I can read says that Kiyotaka outright declared Albert as a physically superior individual.
Secondly, he's talking about the nature of pressure points in general, it's not about Albert. Pressure Points use the application of pain and attack the endurance of a character rather than conventional durability. If the character has high endurance, then they can endure a hit to the pressure points as well.
What? The scan reads that RYUUEN was the one who RECEIVED the blow lmfao. It's just a scan to say that Ryuuen had received a "heavy" blow but still was able to stand up well and not be really disoriented too much. Here's the full one:
By the way, don't misunderstand, Kiyotaka never used his full strength against Ryuuen, he himself said that he could oneshot him, but that he didn't want to:
"Stop me in my tracks" doesn't mean the same thing as him being able to one shot him.
Plus, Kiyotaka compared Shiba's attack's attacking power to the attack of his own, and the attacks he had delivered weren't at his full strength either.
Crazily, he stated that he needed Kiryuuin to keep Shiba busy only for 1 or 2 seconds, meaning that if she could keep him busy, he would be taking on Tsukishiro in the meantime, the same Tsukishiro who roughly equals Shiba in physical ability, and that means that Shiba/Tsukishiro vs Kiyotaka is a 1/2 second matchup lmfao. THAT is the difference in their true abilities:
Yes, he has incredible Information Analysis ability listed on his profile and he can completely give someone's measure of abilities without seeing them in a fight.
Both are highly irrelevant as statements and only amount to "plot deception" or an improper narrative giving.
In reality, Kiyotaka stopped both Ibuki and Suzune at once while using only a single hand, and Ichika, who was highly weakened in Y2V4 literally took a punch from Ibuki on the face and that only managed to shake her up.
And a kick from Ibuki couldn't even knock down a weakened Suzune:
And I don't think I need to mention the difference between Ichika and Kiyotaka. Kiyotaka scales MASSIVELY above Ichika to the point where he toyed with her, blitzed her, knocked the air out of her, opposed her strength with an extreme superiority and literally let her go and proved his levels in Y2V7, and he even DIRECTLY cleared it up with her that the differences between them were big:
Either way, the Suzune one is an obvious GAG scene so...
I don't disagree with the fact that Kouenji isn't a White Room student, but that's literally KOUENJI, a character who's trained on levels which are as crazy as White Room.
I don't know where it does even state that she nearly blitzed him lmfao. Are we even reading the same novels?
All that scan means is that Nanase had just improved her abilities to the point where he would need to put at least some effort from that point on, otherwise he was really just toying with no efforts in the entire fight.
Plus, I don't even want to go against the "knock out adult men which would include himself" argument.
It's so wild because it is literally just a general statement and doesn't even apply to him. It's even funnier because he uses the article "an" which even refers to the fact that he's talking about the general adult.NO, I'M NOT EVEN EXPLAINING WHY IT'S WRONG.
LMFAO, the scan you have attached directly states:
This means that he could faster, and that means he still wasn't going all out. Before he could, a student fell into his way.
Bro what? Kiyotaka in ANHS is far weaker than his self in the White Room. And it is probably common sense, and you don't even need that statement that you grow weaker if you aren't hitting the gym daily.
But yes, that statement is fully correct and you have given ZERO reasoning to prove why it's wrong.Kiyotaka literally equals Kouenji in tug-of-war and stated that if it wasn't for his body weight, then he could have won, meaning that his LS was still a little bit higher than Kouenji's and this means that Kouenji, a character who can swing extremely heavy boars with relative ease would be slightly upscaled by Kiyotaka and thus, Kiyotaka not only goes far beyond 100 kg as his LS but also goes insanely above any other character in COTE.
In fact, a much higher feat than any of the feats you listed is Ichika being able to fracture Kushida's arm which is an accepted feat by the way, and the same Ichika got brutally mogged in LS by Kiyotaka in Y2V7 as well.
Albert is not above Kiyotaka due to the Y2V11 statement supporting the fact that Kiyotaka wasn't at his full power.
NO. ANHS Kiyotaka is getting stronger time by time as he works out in the gym, but yes, he does get weaker and he indirectly confirmed it to Mashima without needing to mention about the White Room and just mentioning it as "where I was before".
This DOESN'T help in establishing superiority of ANHS Kiyotaka over White Room Kiyotaka in any way though?
And where the hell is it written that he couldn't hurt them even when wielding a baton? It's literally nowhere. Instead, he said that he would be hitting the weak points because BROTHER, HE WAS literally fighting 6 FIGHTERS at ONCE. This means that he would need to get it over with quickly, so any way you see it, hitting weak points is the optimal way.
Please interpret the scenes correctly at least.
Talent =/= Abilities. You can have talent of all sorts but it doesn't matter if you are not polishing it.
Plus, this statement doesn't mean crap. White Room gives overall superiority. It doesn't matter if a character is superior in one of two aspects if a White Room subject completely demolishes them.
Plus, you need to actually think this through and know that giving examples of intellect, academics, athletics, durable body, fighting and running, and a general talent statement doesn't make it enough for you to prove your non-difference in physical abilities between White Room subjects and non-White Roomers.
It's just your interpretation and no part of the scan supports. In reality, talking with common sense, repeatedly slamming a part of your body can create microfractures in bones which can lead to re-calcification making them stronger, or exercising creates microtears in muscles, making them stronger.
THIS IS SUCH A HEADCANON OF ALL TIME.
"Ayanokouji views adults such as his white room instructions as superior in "size, strength and skill until he was 9 years old where the upped his training even more" - No, just no, yes they are superior in size but by the age of 9, he defeated all of his instructors in both strength (a 9 y/o btw) and skill:
(also, a statement showing that pure physical strength was enough to beat the instructors)
Bro.
When you are getting weaker, both striking and lifting strength are affected. And, Kiyotaka's striking strength equals his AP, so yes, his AP is also decreasing. Durability-wise, he's getting weaker too because he would begin to lose the muscle mass and the calcification of his bones would gradually be getting weaker with time.Kiyotaka is NOT a natural genius; he literally adapts with time and starts with knowledge application. If you don't understand that, then you need to start reading novels.
But yes, here:
So yes, this thread is almost completely wrong because:
- It assumes that the White Room/Kouenji's training advantage is due to narratives mainly.
- It assumes that some areas where non-WR students are superior to WR subjects means total superiority, which is obviously false.
- A large part of the criticism in the OP comes from statements which are completely proven wrong later on or are plot deception or in a GAG scene.
RoggerReggor
He/Him- 2,443
- 957
The OP is basically using arguments from GAG scenes or arguments from scenes which get completely proven otherwise later on in the series in different encounters between characters to establish that the verse doesn't go in an AP = Durability relation (he is doing it unknowingly btw).
But from what I read, he's just trying to establish that the gaps in AP and Durability in the verse are narrow which is obviously wrong too because every statement he used has actually gone completely differently later on in the series and doesn't match the feats and the outcomes of the combat between characters.
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Despite making largely the same arguments I did you managed to explain everything much better than I did lol.
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You just cosigned his thread without replying to a single point I made for hours. Very disingenuousDespite making largely the same arguments I did you managed to explain everything much better than I did lol.
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Let's not forget this is the same volume where Kiyotaka introduced himself as a mere normal high schooler with his background even leading to a middle school and was even performing plot deception (a technique where a character deceives the reader).
In reality, Kiyotaka managed to stop Housen who was equipped with a knife at once with a severed hand to the point where Housen couldn't even budge him forward. You are simply proposing an AP =/= Durability here which in fact, is just bad to prove in a verse with characters having human bodies.
LMFAO, why do people still use this after Y2V11?
In Y2V11, Albert compared Kiyotaka to Housen in terms of strength, and that the weight in Housen's attacks was almost the same to that of Kiyotaka, which is correct.
Kiyotaka transcends the concept of heaviness or lightness, and even if he's going "all out" and "not holding back", he's possibly still holding back, because the source of his strength is narratively said to be not that simple, and he can go beyond and deliver damage above his weight of the arm allows him to.
So no, this statement is invalid, Albert never really took an attack from a Kiyotaka who was actually not holding back.
Albert possesses crazy amount of muscle mass, yes. But nowhere in the text you have highlighted or the one I can read says that Kiyotaka outright declared Albert as a physically superior individual.
Secondly, he's talking about the nature of pressure points in general, it's not about Albert. Pressure Points use the application of pain and attack the endurance of a character rather than conventional durability. If the character has high endurance, then they can endure a hit to the pressure points as well.
What? The scan reads that RYUUEN was the one who RECEIVED the blow lmfao. It's just a scan to say that Ryuuen had received a "heavy" blow but still was able to stand up well and not be really disoriented too much. Here's the full one:
By the way, don't misunderstand, Kiyotaka never used his full strength against Ryuuen, he himself said that he could oneshot him, but that he didn't want to:
"Stop me in my tracks" doesn't mean the same thing as him being able to one shot him.
Plus, Kiyotaka compared Shiba's attack's attacking power to the attack of his own, and the attacks he had delivered weren't at his full strength either.
Crazily, he stated that he needed Kiryuuin to keep Shiba busy only for 1 or 2 seconds, meaning that if she could keep him busy, he would be taking on Tsukishiro in the meantime, the same Tsukishiro who roughly equals Shiba in physical ability, and that means that Shiba/Tsukishiro vs Kiyotaka is a 1/2 second matchup lmfao. THAT is the difference in their true abilities:
Yes, he has incredible Information Analysis ability listed on his profile and he can completely give someone's measure of abilities without seeing them in a fight.
Both are highly irrelevant as statements and only amount to "plot deception" or an improper narrative giving.
In reality, Kiyotaka stopped both Ibuki and Suzune at once while using only a single hand, and Ichika, who was highly weakened in Y2V4 literally took a punch from Ibuki on the face and that only managed to shake her up.
And a kick from Ibuki couldn't even knock down a weakened Suzune:
And I don't think I need to mention the difference between Ichika and Kiyotaka. Kiyotaka scales MASSIVELY above Ichika to the point where he toyed with her, blitzed her, knocked the air out of her, opposed her strength with an extreme superiority and literally let her go and proved his levels in Y2V7, and he even DIRECTLY cleared it up with her that the differences between them were big:
Either way, the Suzune one is an obvious GAG scene so...
I don't disagree with the fact that Kouenji isn't a White Room student, but that's literally KOUENJI, a character who's trained on levels which are as crazy as White Room.
I don't know where it does even state that she nearly blitzed him lmfao. Are we even reading the same novels?
All that scan means is that Nanase had just improved her abilities to the point where he would need to put at least some effort from that point on, otherwise he was really just toying with no efforts in the entire fight.
Plus, I don't even want to go against the "knock out adult men which would include himself" argument.
NO, I'M NOT EVEN EXPLAINING WHY IT'S WRONG.
LMFAO, the scan you have attached directly states:
This means that he could faster, and that means he still wasn't going all out. Before he could, a student fell into his way.
Bro what? Kiyotaka in ANHS is far weaker than his self in the White Room. And it is probably common sense, and you don't even need that statement that you grow weaker if you aren't hitting the gym daily.
Kiyotaka literally equals Kouenji in tug-of-war and stated that if it wasn't for his body weight, then he could have won, meaning that his LS was still a little bit higher than Kouenji's and this means that Kouenji, a character who can swing extremely heavy boars with relative ease would be slightly upscaled by Kiyotaka and thus, Kiyotaka not only goes far beyond 100 kg as his LS but also goes insanely above any other character in COTE.
In fact, a much higher feat than any of the feats you listed is Ichika being able to fracture Kushida's arm which is an accepted feat by the way, and the same Ichika got brutally mogged in LS by Kiyotaka in Y2V7 as well.
Albert is not above Kiyotaka due to the Y2V11 statement supporting the fact that Kiyotaka wasn't at his full power.
NO. ANHS Kiyotaka is getting stronger time by time as he works out in the gym, but yes, he does get weaker and he indirectly confirmed it to Mashima without needing to mention about the White Room and just mentioning it as "where I was before".
This DOESN'T help in establishing superiority of ANHS Kiyotaka over White Room Kiyotaka in any way though?
And where the hell is it written that he couldn't hurt them even when wielding a baton? It's literally nowhere. Instead, he said that he would be hitting the weak points because BROTHER, HE WAS literally fighting 6 FIGHTERS at ONCE. This means that he would need to get it over with quickly, so any way you see it, hitting weak points is the optimal way.
Please interpret the scenes correctly at least.
Talent =/= Abilities. You can have talent of all sorts but it doesn't matter if you are not polishing it.
Plus, this statement doesn't mean crap. White Room gives overall superiority. It doesn't matter if a character is superior in one of two aspects if a White Room subject completely demolishes them.
Plus, you need to actually think this through and know that giving examples of intellect, academics, athletics, durable body, fighting and running, and a general talent statement doesn't make it enough for you to prove your non-difference in physical abilities between White Room subjects and non-White Roomers.
It's just your interpretation and no part of the scan supports. In reality, talking with common sense, repeatedly slamming a part of your body can create microfractures in bones which can lead to re-calcification making them stronger, or exercising creates microtears in muscles, making them stronger.
THIS IS SUCH A HEADCANON OF ALL TIME.
"Ayanokouji views adults such as his white room instructions as superior in "size, strength and skill until he was 9 years old where the upped his training even more" - No, just no, yes they are superior in size but by the age of 9, he defeated all of his instructors in both strength (a 9 y/o btw) and skill:
(also, a statement showing that pure physical strength was enough to beat the instructors)
Bro.
Kiyotaka is NOT a natural genius; he literally adapts with time and starts with knowledge application. If you don't understand that, then you need to start reading novels.
But yes, here:
So yes, this thread is almost completely wrong because:
- It assumes that the White Room/Kouenji's training advantage is due to narratives mainly.
- It assumes that some areas where non-WR students are superior to WR subjects means total superiority, which is obviously false.
- A large part of the criticism in the OP comes from statements which are completely proven wrong later on or are plot deception or in a GAG scene.
I responded to all of these points already. The overall disconnect is people think physical strength is the same as physical ability when it is not as the definition and breakdown of both state. The only difference by tiering is their lifting strength, stamina and experience or talent level, which Tuskishiro and Ayanokouji state can be equal or superior to White Room in certain aspects as academics, sports or natural talent.
Ayanokouji hiding his true self from regular students in regular classes doesn't mean he is hiding himself in combat when he is explicitly stating the opposite every time he does it, even in the scans being sent by you guys, which is where I'm confused because I'm proving more than context I'm basically expaining the entire character with proof and it's being dismissed
RoggerReggor
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Despite making largely the same arguments I did you managed to explain everything much better than I did lol.
Brooo...I can't care lesser about what Google definition says about physical strength or ability. I have already gone on these things many times that COTE, or for that matter, any series doesn't go with the exact terminologies. They can use the term "force" to describe AP which is mainly energy or work. Authors aren't meant to be pro-scaling.
And no, I already gave enough feats to prove the massive AP difference between characters and already gave counter proofs to all the stuff which you regarded as AP similarities.
I already mentioned why I think that Kiyotaka wasn't giving it his all against Albert using the Y2V11 scan, and in fact, even Albert himself agreed with that afterwards, so yes, all this thread brings is mostly nothing. A lot of these points are something I used to see daily in literal YT comments and most of them original from a non-scaler perspective.
As of this point, Kinugasa-sensei has managed to indirectly retcon or directly go against almost every scaling incoherence which could somehow be made out in COTE scaling some years ago, that's what he actually started doing after the interview where he stated that he would actually focus on COTE combat aspects more.
UnstoppableObject
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AP is measured in joules, because it's simplified (even to the point where some people just take the total energy and think that it's usable as it is - one example is in this thread, no offense meant towards anyone). The actual stuff that determines the damage is impact force and pressure.
You definitely should, unless you want to get a character as high as possible based on misinterpreted terms.
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You are trying to push realism when the wiki doesn't work that way, can you please stop trying to insist on that?
Zefra among others have explained to you why that doesn't work
UnstoppableObject
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If you don't like realism then maybe don't use the Potential Energy formula to calculate the energy in the first place. You're using a value that's based on a character jumping down an object. It results in humans being Street Level (thousands of joules) according to the same logic.
I have genuinely no idea why you wouldn't want to get some other durability feat (for example taking the 29.4 kilojoule and using the Dura = AP).
You don't even need to go too much in detail. It's literally only one more step to make it more accurate and you're making tons of excuses only to justify the 49.3 kilojoules when you know very well that it's just incorrect to use it.
The original claim was this:
You're straight up taking the entire 49.3 kJ value and assuming that he'd be able to withstand it in a punch despite almost no part of his body neccesarily being tough enough to withstand that kind of energy only due to the fact that the energy is handled differently when you fall compared to when you're punched.
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UnstoppableObject
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In that case you're abusing the fact that this wiki doesn't explicitly state "energy density matters in cases like falling from a high place" to the point where you incorrectly take the 49.3 kilojoules just to get him that high then. If you know that it's completely wrong then why do you keep using it?
The wiki only says something like this:
"For example, if a character withstands an explosion as their primary durability justification than the energy of the explosion that they tanked has hit them over a large surface area of their body. However if all of that energy were focused in an extremely narrow area of effect such as the width of a blade or the point of a needle - then the energy would more than likely pass through the character's body much easier. Even a weaker attack than the aforementioned explosion could do more visible damage by being concentrated.
This can also be an issue with giant-sized characters being harmed by somebody much smaller than them. A bee can inflict pain on a human without possessing attack potency anywhere comparable to a human's durability."
A bee attacks lower surface area than a fist is.
A punch has lower surface area than the surface area which you use to land from a high place.
UnstoppableObject
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Look at what I said for a moment, please. You are genuinely wrong and as incorrect as much as you can be in this case. Even in the "the wiki does not work like this part". The only problem is that it's not explicitly stated. It's stated as a general example.
Like... what am I wrong in at this point? I checked both the physics and the rules to make sure I didn't say anything wrong.
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We geniuely consider bones to be able to tank up to 9 kj, so yeah, we treat human to be capable to, in some circumnstances, tank (at least survive without massive damage) up to thousands of joules.
UnstoppableObject
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I don't deny that, but you wouldn't scale all parts to 9 kj. Those 9 kJ would only apply for one bone and it would still damage it to some extent.
I was replying to this the whole time:
"Not to mention Nanase scales to 4.6 KJ AP while Koji is 49,3 KJ in durability which would make no sense that she would've made dmg to him"
And that was using energy from falling and scaled it to the 49.3 kilojoules as if it's regular durability that applies to all parts of his body.
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Dismissal of a fact doesn't make it any less correct. The fact of the matter is you confused physical strength with physical ability which is why you don't seem to understand that these characters are not superior by strength even after it's repeatedly listed. You can be physically stronger than somebody while being inferior in physical ability, that's the fact of the matter. Example. In wrestling. Big Show is physically stronger than Roman Reigns, but Roman Reigns overall is the better wrestler when you add all factors which is why he would have a higher overall on the wrestling game
That doesn't apply to this verse. This is not a fantasy verse with verse specific concepts, and we cannot simply create a headcanons for the verse because you "could care less" that's an even bigger problem if you're willing to purposely midscale the verse even after proven incorrect
And I gave quadruple that debunks it proving the opposite yet you want to dismiss them and even in the scales you sent which I said multiple times it literally says what im saying after being told my scans were "fan made" so that was a lie told by the zesty guy. That's not helping anyone.
And that's the problem what you think is actually different than whats being told and described over and over and over and over again. Simply going through them 1 by 1 dismissing source material is not helping and even when you guys send scales it's the exact same scales I already sent making the conversation go in circles.
The source of where it comes from doesn't change the validity of it. YouTube has videos about every anime. Not just cote.
This isn't true at all as shown you are purposely dismissing statements that prove he's human then using the ones that you think upgrade him just for the scans to be proven in favor of my point being physical strength and physical ability are not the same things. There are characters in the verse physically stronger than others while being inferior in total physical ability. That won't change and dismissing it when it's said over 20 times is bad faith.
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This is what I believe is happening, they are just repeating the same arguments as the last person while not addressing that the stuff they're sending is also proving my point while trying to dismiss my points
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I'm not sure, but I think the bones absorb most damage from a fall. Can't say for sure.
UnstoppableObject
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They probably absorb most of it (unless you bend them to lower the impact force). It's just that my point was that this:
(imgur stuff not working, so here's the entire blog)
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...enji_jumps_a_mountain:_Classroom_of_the_Elite
Is very much comparable to a regular human jumping off of something (except for the height of course). And since we know that regular humans get hurt with hundred joule punches, despite being able to survive kilojoule falls, it shouldn't even apply in the case of those 49.3 kilojoules (and therefore we shouldn't use it as a durability value to begin with).
Another annoying thing to point out is the fact that it would be your legs absorbing most of the energy and the upper body barely gets affected, so it's impossible to say that your durability is equal to the energy you gain from falling.
(I was really just trying to put the value into some sort of context, so it wouldn't be used incorrectly. Didn't mean to start some sort of argument, but looks like I already did, so I'm sorry for that).
The fact that it's used as "at least Wall Level" with the 49.3 kilojoules on the profile is already not a really good look, because that's probably one of the highest values and it's both used as a lower bound and based on a questionable assumption. There must be other feats that are far more reliable, so why not use those instead?
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UnstoppableObject
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I feel like a lot of this has been bad faith arguing (I'm not saying this randomly. This is based on a pattern that's way too repetitive). The only response I kept getting for my point was "this wiki doesn't work like this" (which is btw incorrect, because there's a paragraph on the durability page talking about surface area) which still doesn't justify using incorrect values and assumptions just to put a character even higher.
And in your case I can see how they're not even hiding the fact that they're dismissing it.
This is literally the average response you got:
"All of this can be resumed to you just taking everything at face value without taking narrative, statements and feats into consideration"
That's almost an insult and it doesn't even engage in the provided evidence and arguments. It just labels you as "taking everything at face value" and even that claim isn't backed up.
I also don't see any good response to your question (which should also tell you something): "Where are you getting "official translations" because the scans I'm using come from the exact same sites. I'm not sure why you believe there is some secret translation that isn't available to all readers."
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I finally fixed the full scaling chain and the statement below will be used as the benchmark statement for my entire premise that the verse is mainly separated by experience, and that Ayanokouji is not physically superior to every single character, he is only more skilled, smarter with better pain tolerance, physical ability and lifting strength. Not Attack Potency and Durability. The only time Ayanokouji has ever mentioning holding back was during a written test. People misconstrued him hiding his "real identity" as him "holding back" in every fight, when he explicitly states when he is going all out. Also another big reason for this problem is people confuse physical capabilities and physical strength.
I split the tiers and feats that apply by each characters tier which prove a consistent scaling chain in the verse
Here is the statement: Ayanokouji and Tsukishiro agree that there are Non white room people as talented as white room members. Tsukishiro even says there is talent the white room cant even produce
Skill level God: Ayanokouji >>
God: White Room Ayanokouji > Current Ayanokouji = Koenji = Tsukishiro = Shiba = Albert = Housen = Takuya = Sudo (possibly Shiro)
High: > Manabu > Nagumo > Ryuuen = Kito > Ichizaki > Amasawa >
Mid: Kiryuin > Nanase > Ibuki ≥ Horikita = Kushida
Mid: Ryuuen = Kito > Hashimoto = Ibuki ≥ Horikita > Kushida > Albert > Ichizaki > Akito
Speed (Travel)
God: Ayanokouji ≥ Koenji = Manabu = Albert = Takuya = Amasawa > Tsukishiro > Shiba (possibly Shiro)
Attack Potency God: Tsukishiro = Shiba > Albert > Ayanokouji = Koenji = Manabu = Housen (unknown: Takuya, likely atleast ANHS Ayanokouji)
Durability: Albert >> Housen > Koenji = Ayanokouji > Tsukishiro > Shiba > Takuya > Manabu
As you can see there is a consistent theme with the verse as nobody besides Albert has statements that would put their durability above every other character due to his superior genetics being half black. Which is something he was likely taught when learning about USA.
Performance Stamina/Ability + Endurance:
God: WR Ayanokouji > Current Ayanokouji >> Takuya > Amasawa > Koenji
I split the tiers and feats that apply by each characters tier which prove a consistent scaling chain in the verse
Here is the statement: Ayanokouji and Tsukishiro agree that there are Non white room people as talented as white room members. Tsukishiro even says there is talent the white room cant even produce
- Examples with scans:Sakayanaki's intellect, Sudo's athletic ability, Albert's durable body, Manabu Horikita academic , fighting + running and Koenji's prodigious talent, plus more are all non white room members and has shown superior or comparable skill to non white room members.
Skill level God: Ayanokouji >>
- Ayanokouji is the standard of performance for members of the White Room. A facility whose goal was to produce extra-ordinary outstanding people. There was not a single person in the facility who didn't know his name as he was viewed as the "perfect specimen" who no one could ever pass in performance to the point they viewed him as a myth.
- White Room students were trained to be superior to Olympic athletes in their suggested sports, which is in line with what Ayanokouji is talking about as far as physical PERFORMANCE. Not how hard he punches or tanks hits, which as Ayanokouji stated is moreso genetics, than training as you can only train the tolerance of taking the pain, and they are smarter than the smartest students at Japanese universities. This is because every teacher was hand picked for not being ordinary with their teachings.
- Defeated all of his White Room Instructors by the time he was 9 after defeating all of the 4th gen members and they dropped out
- Ayanokouji being viewed as the peak for every generation and standard for achievement.
- Ayanokouji is viewed as a "monster" when Tsukishiro looked at his info Y2V1 page 3
- Manabu says Ayanokouji is superior in brute force and fighting ability and is the last person he would ever want to fight.
- Ayanokouji cant be reproduced by the White Room after he was originally imperfect in the beginning whether it was Karate, Boxing etc. He would either score unremarkable or ordinary results. He is great at absorbing power and sublimating it into his ability, then after learning the basics would use his extraordinary learning ability to apply it.
- By age 8 the White Room instructors stated Ayanokouji would be outperforming them soon and it was a certainty and stated that he would be a "monster" and that the concept of what he became shouldn't exist.
- Ayanokouji has "uncanny" ability to learn, adapt and apply and is referred to as a "true mutation".
- White Room instructors wanted to discontinue the Beta curriculum because they would only see the number of dropouts and not any progress besides Ayanokouji.
- Ayanokouji purposely hid his real abilities from the White Room instructors so his actual peak is still unknown.
- Instructors stated no matter how harsh the curriculum he showed adaptability sooner or later and is viewed as an anomaly.
- Ayanokouji adapt his strength to match his opponent to always be superior.
- Tsukishiro taunts Ayanokouji and says with his skill level and intelligence that its foolish to even compete with ANHS students because its basically beneath him as he was nurtured to take over the world (Nanase did something similar)
- A 2 vs 1 with professional level agents is not considered "unfair" for Ayanokouji. (2nd version ) Tsukishiro is considered a "jack of all trades" and who has committed murder before
- Full White Room Curriculum for every generation.
- The White room strives to create mass-production of geniuses regardless of genetics or talent.
- Takuya was scared to face Ayanokouji mentally or physically after joining ANHS and preparing for it.
- Nagumo stated Ayanokouji is the only type of person he has trouble dealing with. here.
- Kushida says what Ayanokouji did to Amasawa "wasnt normal".
- Ayanokouji says Amasawa is a 25 or 30 on the scale and he is 100.
- Ayanokouji states its a "Gulf" difference in skill between him and Ryuuen Y1V7 page 175
- Nanase thinks Ayanokouji athleticism is good but he says he didn't really do much, meaning his athletic floor are higher than hers.
- Ayanokouji is not above killing if the fight calls for it. Y1V7 page 172 (Another example)
- Ayanokouji Says he has fought in "disadvantageous" situations since he was a kid and is as unconsciously used to it as a human it breathing.
- Albert says Housen has equal or greater fighting ability than Ayanokouji but Ryuuen tells him OVERALL there is no comparison, then they both agree Ayanokouji is an opponent who is above the standards of weight classes.
- By age 7 had. 144 total fights with 127 wins 19.
- White Room Instructors said they cant find his "upper limit" because of how fast he adaps to tbe Beta curriculum, however they state if ue never got his training he would likely be an ordinary kid. Upper limit explained.
- Ayanokouji will be a politician by age 25.
- Ayanokouji is an excellent swimmer.
- Ayanokouji has a perfect memory recall.
- Ayanokouji has only stated he held back to keep 4th gen students around longer to study them.
- Ayanokouji says Tsukishiro is one of the strongest people he ever fought.
- Ayanokouji says Tsukishiro hasn't shown all his capabilities.
- States he can't hold back against Tsukishiro or else he could be caught by surprise.
- Kiryuin says Tsukishiro fighting ability is at a "ridiculous" level.
- Ayanokouji says he never searched for the White Room students because they were never a threat from the start.
- Amasawa has better fighting ability than Ryuuen and Sudo but they are physically stronger than her(from book).
- Amasawa can beat Ryuuen.
- Amasawa is considered stronger than most boys in fighting ability.
- Amasawa said with his combat ability he should be able to compete with Ayanokouji.
- Koenji can beat Ryuuen gang.
- Koenji knows Chinese martial arts.
- Koenji was able to capture a wild boar. (anime version)
- Koenji is considered a delinquent.
- Manabu says he has an ability to learn faster than others but Ayanokōuji and Manabu are better.
- Utomiya is confused as a White Room Student, meaning his abilities should be similar. He is viewed as one of the strongest first years.
- Nagumo is the only ANHS student with AS across the board on OAA.
- Ayanokouji said Kiryuin could defend herself well against Shiba.
- Nanase cant go toe to toe with White Room students.
- Albert says Housen has equal or greater fighting ability than Ayanokouji but Ryuuen tells him OVERALL there is no comparison, then they both agree Ayanokouji is an opponent who is above fhe standards of weight classes.
- Housen was considered more exceptional than Sudo because of his combat experience.
- Ryuuen knew his gang would be at a disadvantage against Housen in a fight and Told Ichizaki to back down if he didnt want to die.
- Serious Nanase actually is an A in physical ability.
- Housen would beat Manabu and Albert in a fight.
- Housen is stated he would have an advantage in a fight against Amasawa.
- Housen is confirmed stronger than Nanase.
- Housen Albert has more combat power than Ryuuen.
- Ryuuen stated to have far higher fighting ability than Tokito.
- Kanzaki is a black belt in judo and karate and a genius.
- Kitou stated he was confident in his fighting ability against Albert and Ichizaki.
- Suzune says she can't beat Koenji or Sudo with her bare hands.
- Horikita says Ibuki is stronger than equal to her.
God: White Room Ayanokouji > Current Ayanokouji = Koenji = Tsukishiro = Shiba = Albert = Housen = Takuya = Sudo (possibly Shiro)
High: > Manabu > Nagumo > Ryuuen = Kito > Ichizaki > Amasawa >
Mid: Kiryuin > Nanase > Ibuki ≥ Horikita = Kushida
- Ayanokouji says his "physical strength" had weakened since he left the white room since he wasn't training.
- Ayanokouji had a stalemate in Tug Of War with Koenji.
- Horikita and Kushida notice now muscular Ayanokouji is and says he is more fit than Sudou. (manga version)
- Purposely scored 60.6 after hearing thats average, and said he someone get up to 100kg with the right training. (manga version) (anime version)
- Ayanokouji talks to Sudo about his real strength and how his stamina is leaving (manga version)
- Ayanokouji catches Ichizaki fist and squeezes it casusing pain Y1V7 page 169 - He collapses in pain 170 - (version)
- Ayanokouji catches Albert fist and feels pain without even taking a direct blow Y1V7 page 169 - (anime version)
- Housen stabs Ayanokouji in the palm and he halts his hand with brute strength Y2V1 pages 299-309. (manga version)
- Housen says Ayanokouji calmly stopped his fist and didnt be in pain being stabbed.
- Nanase stated he didn't budge when she tried to slam Ayanokouji. (manga version)
- Ayanokouji restrained by Albert and Hiyori, mentions how strong Albert is.
- Albert grabs Ichizaki arm and hurts him.
- Albert held Akito hand in place.
- Sudo and Katsuragi cant compare to Albert physique and genetics, and states that foreigners are just made different than Japanese men. Also compares them by using pro baseball players builds.
- Housen lifts Sudo by his collar off the ground even though Sudo is considered someone eith high strength. (manga version)
- Pushed Sudo down and claims he barely touched him.
- Considered more exceptional than Sudo who has athleticism and a honed body.
- Housen has more raw strength than Amasawa.
- Albert and Housen are equals in "pure strength".
- Housen cant free himself from Albert.
- Utomiya makes Housen compliment his strength after he stopped his punch.
- Koenji strength was considered "half baked" or "half effort" after he playfully pulled away from his senior without effort.
- Koenji can bench press 200kg.
- Koenji physical ability is considered "extraordinary".
- Koenji as a student impressed Mashima the teacher with it.
- Mashima can bench press from 80kg to 100kg.
- Amasawa has better fighting ability than Ryuuen and Sudo but they are physically stronger than her(from book).
- Takuya overpowers Amasawa. She couldnt free herself from his grip.
- Ryuuen and Kito has same throwing strength.
- Tsukishiro says Ayanokouji has abnormal reaction time.
- Ayanokouji dodges projectile orange juice from Ryuuen to prove he has abnormal reactions.
Mid: Ryuuen = Kito > Hashimoto = Ibuki ≥ Horikita > Kushida > Albert > Ichizaki > Akito
- Kito dodges an attack from Utomiya.
- Hashimoto dodges a kick from Ibuki.
- Ibuki away Kito's hand.
- Akito barely dodges Ibuki.
Speed (Travel)
God: Ayanokouji ≥ Koenji = Manabu = Albert = Takuya = Amasawa > Tsukishiro > Shiba (possibly Shiro)
- Raced Manabu Horikita with full speed after making a bet with him to go all out, which he then states this being the first time he ran seriously in his life, and he tied with Manabu until someone fell in his lane but said he could go faster even though someone fell in his lane making him lose the race. (2nd version)(anime version)
- Albert is an extremely fast runner. But he lacks stamina.
- Basically punched Nagumo before he could perceive it and only felt the pain afterwards.
- Koenji runs so fast he could put sprinters to shame.
- Koenji runs so fast his legs are practically a blur.
- Koenji Dodged 3 athletic seniors who attempted to grab him in 1 stride.
- Housen punches were too fast for Sudo to get on the offensive.
- Ayanokouji was nearly blitzed by Nanase after she switched personalities and had to use what he calls "emergency evasive action" which means he was being serious.
- Housen is considered quick on his feet despite his size.
Attack Potency God: Tsukishiro = Shiba > Albert > Ayanokouji = Koenji = Manabu = Housen (unknown: Takuya, likely atleast ANHS Ayanokouji)
- Ayanokouji's analysis of Shiba punch made him think he had comparable AP to Shiba, then corrected himself and said Shiba hits harder. , (2nd version) , (3rd version book)
- Albert hit Ayanokouji and he said damage would accumulate after letting it happen to gauge his striking power, which means Albert has higher AP and Durability than Ayanokouji, but lost due to not having the experience.
- Housen sends Sudo flying. (manga version)
- Albert said Housen has the same AP as Ayanokouji after catching his fist and remembering the fight with ayanokouji.
- Ayanokouji punched Albert in the abdomen with his full strength stating he couldn't hold back not knowing the full extent of his abilites, and said he only dealt "shallow" damage. (Did the same thing to Tsukishiro)
- Ayanokouji says he cant break open the door completely but can "possibly" make a hole. (Since Koji is now wall level this is just more justification) Y1V4.5 page 37
- Ayanokouji describes the punch he gave Ryuuen as a vicious right. Y1V7 page 176
- Ayanokouji Put all his strength into punch and Tsukishiro calls it "absolutely magnificent".
- Ayanokouji punch would KO most but not Ryuuen. Y1V7 page 176
- Stated he could use all his strength to try to punch out everyone in the bathhouse to escape which included Koenji, Ryuuen, Ichizaki, Albert, Miyake and others.
- States he could "seriously injure" Nanase if he struck back unwisely.
- States his first strike would knock her out. (2nd version). Does it again.Says the same will happen to his next strikes.3rd time.
- Makes Tsukishiro face tear up from his jabs.
- Ayanokouji temporarily knocks out Tsukishiro.
- Ayanokouji dodges an attack and grab from Manabu Horikita, but stated his kick could one shot him. Y1V6 page 194 (Manga version) (anime version)
- White Room Koji: When fighting the Yakuza in the White Room he stated he had to attack their weak points, even while wielding the baton because be knew he could barely hurt them.
- Ayanokouji views adults such as his white room instructions as superior in "size, strength and skill until he was 9 years old where the upped his training even more to fighting trained gangsters that are willing to kill children who have even bigger "muscular physiques". He even states he'd have no chance of winning a "head on" fight with them, which is why weapons were included, regardless if Koji didn't "need" them and This validates my point that he just like when he fought Albert, his punches would do little damage stated he has to attack the weak points due to their physique, him "breaking the skull" of one of them came after he was down and defenseless.
- Ayanokouji stated the blow he received from Ryuen was "heavy", but suppressed the pain.
- Ryuuen sends Hashimoto flying with a kick.
- Ayanokouji stated Ibuki could give him a concussion with a roundhouse kick.
- Said Horikita with a bottle stuck on her hand could kill him due to her athletic assessment. (2nd version)Y1V4.5 page 121
- Assessed that Nanase karate attacks had enough power to knock out adult men, which would include himself since he is a teen and has similar durability to other teens in the verse.
- Ayanokouji Coughed after being hit by Horikita and said he didn't expect a woman to hit that hard. Y1V6 page 62
- Ayanokouji takes a knee to the face and feels pain throughout his entire body after staggering back and tells Ryuuen he doesn't feel fear, just pain. Y1V7 page 174
- Ayanokouji Avoids Ryuuens attacks that he thinks could cause himself "critical injuries". Y1V7 page 175 -
- Ayanokouji says Nanase has AP to knock out grown men. She makes him take evasive action from how strong he notices her attacks became after she switched personalities. (2nd version.
- Ibuki dents an elevator wall with a kick.
- Sudo punches Hirata to the ground in anger. (manga version)
- Ryuuen sends Hashimoto flying with a kick.
- Mashima hit to Ayanokouji's back was considered powerful even though he didn't try to.
Durability: Albert >> Housen > Koenji = Ayanokouji > Tsukishiro > Shiba > Takuya > Manabu
- Ayanokouji stated that even using pressure points wouldn't always work on Albert due to his superior genetics.
- Stated to be blessed with a remarkable body (Statements that have only been stated about Albert meaning his durability stands out the most)
- Ayanokouji punched Albert in the abdomen with his full strength stating he couldn't hold back not knowing the full extent of his abilites, and said he only dealt "shallow" damage. (Did the same thing to Tsukishiro)
- Was hit by Albert and said damage would accumulate after letting it happen to gauge his striking power, which means Albert has higher AP and Durability than Ayanokouji, but lost due to not having the experience.(2nd version) Y1V7 page 170 -Ayanokouji stated Albert was swinging with all his might. Y1V7 page 170
- Ayanokouji stated the blow he received from Ryuen was "heavy", but suppressed the pain.
- Assessed that Nanase karate attacks had enough power to knock out adult men, which would include himself since he is a teen and has similar durability to other teens in the verse.
- Horikita stabs Ayanokouji with her compass to wake him up as he's dozing off in class and he accidentally lets out a cry of pain, and then rubs the pain. Y1V6 page 153
- Ayanokouji Coughed after being hit by Horikita and said he didn't expect a woman to hit that hard. Y1V6 page 62
- Ayanokouji kicks ryuen in the gut and is surprised how well he tanked it and even compliments him for it. Y1V7 page 173
- Ayanokouji stated the blow he gave from Ryuen was "heavy", but Ryuuen showed no signs of "kneeling over".
- Ayanokouji would KO most but not Ryuuen. Y1V7 page 176
- Sudo tanks a tackle from Housen.
As you can see there is a consistent theme with the verse as nobody besides Albert has statements that would put their durability above every other character due to his superior genetics being half black. Which is something he was likely taught when learning about USA.
Performance Stamina/Ability + Endurance:
God: WR Ayanokouji > Current Ayanokouji >> Takuya > Amasawa > Koenji
- White room students built peak human levels of pain tolerance from the repeated slamming to build endurance.
- Many people believe from the statement Ayanokouji says his physical ability is deteriorating at ANHS since he cant train like in the White Room, but that's not the context. Ayanokouji is talking about his deteriorating lifting strength and stamina from the intense workouts in the white room, it has nothing to do with having superior AP or durability as I will further explain as you scroll further. White Room students were trained to be superior to Olympic athletes in their suggested sports, which is in line with what Ayanokouji is talking about as far as physical PERFORMANCE. Not how hard he punches or tanks hits, which as Ayanokouji stated is moreso genetics, than training as you can only train the tolerance of taking the pain, and they are smarter than the smartest students at Japanese universities. This is every teacher was hand picked for not being ordinary with their teachings.
- Took Ayanokouji multiple days to recover his performance stamina.
- Ayanokouji breaks out into a cold sweat for the first time in years after having to fight Tsukishiro and Shiba seriously.
- Tsukishiro notices Ayanokouji is tired and smugly says he should be "reaching his limit" to which Ayanokouji calls him difficult to deal with because of how well he reads him. (2nd version)
- Albert and Ichizaki has more stamina than the average student because they dont smoke even though they're delinquents. But Albert's stamina is still considered only above average.
Fallen_Angelicx
He/Him- 4,085
- 988
It always baffles me how the profiles for Ayano and the content threads made on him make it seem like his pinky finger alone upscales from the whole verse. Like, Ayano needs 0.001 percent of his full capabilities to annihilate everybody else. It's hilarious to me
- 14,994
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blame the staff accepting this nonsense
Fallen_Angelicx
He/Him- 4,085
- 988
Like I don't see similar treatment towards statistics for other God tier characters who unironcally solo their verse 10x over on here.
