Ayanokoji fix (debunk)

[Dark_Soul20189]

Hello, I was cruising around and saw some abilities that left me mindblown... (Part 3) So yeah, I decided to make this.


Verse - Classroom of the Elites
Profile - Ayanokoji



Part 1 - Whiteroom Key
This part is for the Whiteroom keys' abilities.

This part is nothing with the ability, but rather just the description is deceiving.

• Perfect Memory (Was implied to have a perfect memory by a White Room instructor. Was able to remember positions of 45 cards and was 100% correct in naming them. In 3 years, he was implied to never forget anything, not even the memories made just after his birth. He could remember the first memory of him discovering his own hands and the ceiling of the White Room, when he was only a newborn and couldn't speak, He has shown the ability subconsciously absorb information and recall any of it at will. This is different from just a photographic memory where he can retain images since his perfect memory isn't limited in that way)

The card parts fail to mention that it was only 5 at a time, with 10 rounds. (45/9=5 and 5x10 is 50, this math doesn't require much math skill.) What Ayanokoji did was not memorize a position of 45 cards; what he did was memorize 5 different cards in groups of 5 for 10 rounds.

The entire last part of it being different from photographic memory is just "wank", and should just be renamed from "perfect Memory" to the normal ability.


Just straight out removal

• Enhanced Senses (Enhanced Awareness - Should highly upscale this feat done by Yagami due to vastly superior training and the same curriculum till level 4)

I don't see anywhere how it mentions that this is a property of the Whiteroom, nor is it on its wiki page. So I don't see why it's assumed to also be a part of Ayanokoji's whiteroom key.


I don't see any issues with the AD outright, but I don't see a reason why to keep the "enhanced" rating on it, so that should be removed.


Oh boy, now this is truly something...

• Information Analysis (Got an idea of his opponents being much stronger than the adults he had fought before and having been in an uphill battle just upon analyzing their movements, chose a weapon to fight them upon looking at the pros and cons of a given weapon upon the information)

First of all, the entirety of the description for the first scan doesn't match the scan... Second of all, I don't see how this ability meets the requirements for the ability since it's not supernatural.. Not to mention (I may be wrong), but this is the scene where some "mercenaries" were gonna fight him as a kid, so it's natural to say they are stronger than the average adult...

Now the 2nd scan is even worse... I don't think I even need to comment on this, why it doesn't even deserve its own ability, nor to be an additional feat for it?


Part 2 - Current key abilities
The abilities for the Current key

While I don't disagree with the ability, some key parts are extremely wanky. (Analytic prediction)

Can determine each and every possibility to visualize the future to some extent.

(This is from Y2 volume 6 btw, so even that is wrong)...
While the novel uses some flowery language, it doesn't make up for how deceiving this is... Not only are they talking about a specific event, but they are also talking about the event where the classes are forced to expel someone. (Though I have to say, I don't think it would be that hard for Ayanokoji to realize that Arisu was planning)
Either way, this needs to be removed or heavily altered to better fit the actual feat.

I am explaining that this feat is basically just overplayed, and much more concentrated than the current description makes it seem.

Ayanokouji was able to determine that Manabu was aiming to throw his sister when he was still pinning her and even asked him to confirm it

I just don't think this is a valid feat for the ability.

Ayanokouji also analyzes Hōsen from the sides and predicts that he was aiming to harm himself, something which cannot be predicted from the posture Hōsen was in)

Just wanna remove the bold part, since it has no real prof.


Now onto this...

• Better Enhanced Senses (Enhanced Awareness - Knew Kei was following him without even seeing her, Knows someone is following him by sensing their presence. Said it himself that he was capable of fighting Tsubasa Nanase even with his eyes closed and Ibuki too.)

First of all, I don't think we are seeing the same thing...

Said it himself that he was capable of fighting Tsubasa Nanase even with his eyes closed and Ibuki too.)

This part is completely and utterly misleading again. The first one clearly said "dodge", and the other one implies that he won't even be able to fight Ibuki blindfolded.. Now, to give the devil's advocate, the Ibuki one is hard since the "struggle" part is undefined...

So yeah, this also needs to be reworded or removed.


Now this is mostly fine.

• Better Information Analysis (Can gauge the opponent strength by mere glancing and know what martial arts they are using with a glance)

Just remove the better, and change the "strength" to "Physical capability" (I can't see the scan, but from my experience with the verse, it should be more proper.)




Part 3 - Current key resistances
This part is the most self-evident and made me do this CRT in the first place.

This should be pretty straightforward.

• Information Analysis (Ayanokouji notes exactly how Tsukishiro had read 99% of his mind which was him feeding Tsukishiro false information and that he won't let him analyze his true thoughts/intentions which was the 1%)

Just reading the description should be a massive red flag, since we know well enough that no supernatural abilities exist within the verse, so the mind-reading thing is entirely flowery language made by Ayanokoji, something he does a lot in the story.

(Not to mention that Tsukihiro's profile is extremely "raw", and doesn't even have "Information Analysis" as an ability on the page.


Now moving on to a self-evident debunk

• Analytical Prediction (Ayanokouji used fluid movements to make it impossible for him to be read against Albert who tried to predict Ayanokouji)

First of all, the current description is extremely misleading, since the scan says that he threw a feint (fake attack), and then after Albert reacted to it, he did his actual attack, so yeah...

The worst part is that this is not even the worst part... Here is the more concerning manner, and it's bolded.

Analytical Prediction is typically achieved through methods of fighting skill and/or psychological skill, often overlapping with Martial Arts and/or even Genius Intelligence. The most mundane examples of Analytical Prediction are scarcely better than what's achievable in real life

I don't see how throwing a fake attack is anything impossible to do in real life... Hell, we can do that even as kids.



Votes
Agree - @MrTayman616, @Treeztarz, @TWILIGHT-OP, @Vzearr, @CastoriceTheFifth (I think?), @RoggerReggor (Some stuff), @FinePoint, @Dinozxd (Everthing else), @Vietthai96,
Disagree - @XxZetsuxX (Most stuff), @RoggerReggor (Some Stuff), @Dinozxd (Perfect memory)
Neutral - @Dinozxd (On kei scene and visualizing future scene)


Notes
This is a lot longer than I expected...
What is to be just deleted, and what's moved to intelligence feats, needs to be discussed.
Not touching SI, since I have not gained enough knowledge on that ability.
As normal, I will update the proposal alongside the CRT to improve it.

Regarding sleight of hand, I will handle it in my next CRT for the verse unless someone beat me to it.

 

[MrTayman616]

Everything looks good.

Also an addition if can be used, Ayanokoji's AP scales to Koenji right now as "Superior to Koenji". I don't think there is any statement or anything like that about it. His AP as no real scaling chain or statement that compares him to Koenji.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Also an addition if can be used, Ayanokoji's AP scales to Koenji right now as "Superior to Koenji". I don't think there is any statement or anything like that about it. His AP as no real scaling chain or statement that compares him to Koenji.

Funnily enough, I think I made a thread about it in the past, but forgot about it?

Also, I am planning not to touch any statistics for now, since I prefer to keep abilities and stats in separate threads. (This CRT is already long enough.)

(Though I would love it if you made a quick thread about it)

 

[MrTayman616]

Funnily enough, I think I made a thread about it in the past, but forgot about it?

Also, I am planning not to touch any statistics for now, since I prefer to keep abilities and stats in separate threads. (This CRT is already long enough.)

(Though I would love it if you made a quick thread about it)

I'm racist. Only doing OPM threads. (Also the thread is literally named Ayanokoji fix)

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

I'm racist. Only doing OPM threads. (Also the thread is literally named Ayanokoji fix)

Fair enough, I will do it in a follow-up CRT, I also found the thread I talked about...

 

[Treeztarz]

looks pretty good (if it matters i agree)

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Oh boy, now this is truly something...

First of all, the entirety of the description for the first scan doesn't match the scan... Second of all, I don't see how this ability meets the requirements for the ability since it's not supernatural.. Not to mention (I may be wrong), but this is the scene where some "mercenaries" were gonna fight him as a kid, so it's natural to say they are stronger than the average adult...

Since when info analysis needs to be supernatural????

Also the WR instructors are not "average adult" they are professionals in their on field, Karate, Jeet kune do and so on, Koji was able to know they are way above the instructors just by seeing their movements and knew that the instructors and other people had no chance against them

Now the 2nd scan is even worse... I don't think I even need to comment on this, why it doesn't even deserve its own ability, nor to be an additional feat for it?

It's literally analysing information, that's what information analysis is

Part 2 - Current key abilities
The abilities for the Current key

While I don't disagree with the ability, some key parts are extremely wanky. (Analytic prediction)


(This is from Y2 volume 6 btw, so even that is wrong)...
While the novel uses some flowery language, it doesn't make up for how deceiving this is... Not only are they talking about a specific event, but they are also talking about the event where the classes are forced to expel someone. (Though I have to say, I don't think it would be that hard for Ayanokoji to realize that Arisu was planning)
Either way, this needs to be removed or heavily altered to better fit the actual feat.

I am explaining that this feat is basically just overplayed, and much more concentrated than the current description makes it seem.

I wil leave this to Reggor

I just don't think this is a valid feat for the ability.

That's a you problem lol

Just wanna remove the bold part, since it has no real prof.


Now onto this...

First of all, I don't think we are seeing the same thing...

How did he know she was there and she was stalking them after splitting up?

Kei and Hirata split ways with her and Koji

Koji was on a date with the girl, Kei finished early and then started stalking them without revealing her location, Koji sensed her the whole date, after koji rejected the girl, he called her out, i don't see what's wrong here?

This part is completely and utterly misleading again. The first one clearly said "dodge", and the other one implies that he won't even be able to fight Ibuki blindfolded.. Now, to give the devil's advocate, the Ibuki one is hard since the "struggle" part is undefined...

"Struggling" doesn't imply he can't, he would have a hard time, that's all, and he also says that against someone inexperienced he can totally do it as he said "it would be a different story"

So yeah, this also needs to be reworded or removed.

It doesn't really

Now this is mostly fine.

Just remove the better, and change the "strength" to "Physical capability" (I can't see the scan, but from my experience with the verse, it should be more proper.)

No difference, it's legit the same thing, but go ahead?

Part 3 - Current key resistances
This part is the most self-evident and made me do this CRT in the first place.

This should be pretty straightforward.

Just reading the description should be a massive red flag, since we know well enough that no supernatural abilities exist within the verse, so the mind-reading thing is entirely flowery language made by Ayanokoji, something he does a lot in the story.

It's called cold reading and psycho analysis for you information, no one said it's supernatural

Cold reading is the ability to know about your opponent based on information you get from them upon meeting them for the first time, you know someone likes football because, say, they are wearing a cristiano ronaldo shirt

Someone is thinking about ice cream, because they are looking at an ice cream truck, what Tsukishiro is doing is basically that but on a another leave of whats possible IRL (i think)

(Not to mention that Tsukihiro's profile is extremely "raw", and doesn't even have "Information Analysis" as an ability on the page.

Every COTE profile is outdated, so i don't know where you want to go with this

Now moving on to a self-evident debunk

First of all, the current description is extremely misleading, since the scan says that he threw a feint (fake attack), and then after Albert reacted to it, he did his actual attack, so yeah...

The worst part is that this is not even the worst part... Here is the more concerning manner, and it's bolded.

I don't see how throwing a fake attack is anything impossible to do in real life... Hell, we can do that even as kids.

I agree with this, this should be switched with Sleight of Hand (Feint)

 

[XxZetsuxX]

For photographic memory part, i will post here what my friend told me;

"Ayanokouji’s memory isn’t just a “photographic memory” because what he shows goes way beyond the capability of a photographic memory. Photographic memory, even at its best, is short-lived and mostly limited to images. Ayanokouji’s recall covers everything from sight, sound, touch, including everything he experiences and it sticks with him permanently. The card test shows this being applied at a very young age, he didn’t just memorize five images at a time, he tracked how the cards moved through ten full rounds without a single mistake.

Furthermore, a photographic memory can not overcome infantile amnesia, the natural inability of humans to recall experiences from early childhood due to underdeveloped memory structures. Ayanokouji, however, is able to recall the earliest moments of his life, such as discovering his own hands or observing the ceiling of the White Room as a newborn. Both are something that no eidetic/photographic memory could ever account for. His memory is also operates subconsciously, allowing him to passively absorb details without needing deliberate focus or effort which again breaks from a photographic memory. His ability to recall the events from his infancy and to even perfectly recall information such as conversations between people from before he understood language and show the ability to translate what was said later in life once he learned language is well beyond any form of photographic memory.

As such, the separate classification is warranted."

 

[Vietthai96]

I don't see how this ability meets the requirements for the ability since it's not supernatural

You don't need to be supernatural to get Information Analysis, but yeah i agree, you can't get it via analyze things that is obvious

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

Looks good to me.

You don't need to be supernatural to get Information Analysis

Almost everytime it's either supernatural or technological means to get info analysis.

 

[Vzearr]

It's sad, but I kinda have to agree here.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Anya FRA

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

Anya FRA

This is not a match bruh

 

[Doggo]

Everything looks good.

Also an addition if can be used, Ayanokoji's AP scales to Koenji right now as "Superior to Koenji". I don't think there is any statement or anything like that about it. His AP as no real scaling chain or statement that compares him to Koenji.

I thougth they were supposed to be equal?

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

I thougth they were supposed to be equal?

Funny story, actually, that has never actually been stated, just "narratively implied" according to the fandom (we also have the part that constantly takes either one's side)

 

[Doggo]

Funny story, actually, that has never actually been stated, just "narratively implied" according to the fandom (we also have the part that constantly takes either one's side)

Well nothing has yet to indicate one is above the other so at best they should be comparable

 

[MrTayman616]

Well nothing has yet to indicate one is above the other so at best they should be comparable

It doesn't matter as it's never shown or anything like that. Since there is no statement or feat that fully compares them, it can't be used.

 

[RoggerReggor]

I highly appreciate your efforts to fix his profile, even though the VSBW verse community is mostly dead and inactive.

I agree with some things and also disagree with some, though I understand the lack of correct and to-the-point scans also facilitates the need for threads like this. I am open to more asking for scans or elaborations if needed, but as of now, here are my thoughts:

Part 1 - Whiteroom Key
This part is for the Whiteroom keys' abilities.

This part is nothing with the ability, but rather just the description is deceiving.

The card parts fail to mention that it was only 5 at a time, with 10 rounds. (45/9=5 and 5x10 is 50, this math doesn't require much math skill.) What Ayanokoji did was not memorize a position of 45 cards; what he did was memorize 5 different cards in groups of 5 for 10 rounds.

The entire last part of it being different from photographic memory is just "wank", and should just be renamed from "perfect Memory" to the normal ability.

Perfect Memory is an ability which Kiyotaka wasn't trained in, he simply had it from his birth. It was tested via many tests in the White Room, with it also determining that he had a lack of infantile amnesia, perfect memory retrievals (and the card game also tests that instead of it simply being a test of memorization only).

While the card game did have 9 rounds of 5 cards, it is more of a guessing game. Then afterwards, he proceeded to collect all the 50 cards again, via having memorized microdetails on cards like scratches and intricate details, and lined them up as soon as he received information from the intercom in his ear.

So, no, the card game isn't limited to the only first 45 cards, and sadly, the scan also fails to capture this, it should be replaced.

Secondly, his perfect memory still fundamentally works differently than photographic memory. Photographic memory is just an aspect of perfect memory in which photographic memory is included (photographically memorizing huge sets of information), retrieval of information, lack of infantile amnesia (lack of natural erasure of memories which takes place in children where they forget memories of their early childhood) and conscious erasure of memories.

You can see all of that from scans. I suppose what you should be proposing for should be an elaboration in text of all of these abilities.

Just straight out removal

I don't see anywhere how it mentions that this is a property of the Whiteroom, nor is it on its wiki page. So I don't see why it's assumed to also be a part of Ayanokoji's whiteroom key.

I would have surely agreed with this if this was done some months ago, but the release of Y2V12.5 made it clear that enhanced awareness was a training segment in the White Room curriculum, where we see many activities which pushed Kiyotaka's awareness (it's just that the proper time wasn't revealed). Since Takuya never reached the level of Kiyotaka even when he was at the age of 9 (i.e. beating instructors in both academics and combat), we can easily say that Kiyotaka would still upscale this heavily.

And we know that White Room simulations also began before Kiyotaka aged 9. (Below: Y2V12.5)

However, I am open to a change in this, and instead of it being a flat-out removal, an elaboration on this in text is also necessary.

I don't see any issues with the AD outright, but I don't see a reason why to keep the "enhanced" rating on it, so that should be removed.

I agree, instead of "enhanced", it should be "constantly increasing" or "enhancing", but surely, "enhanced" isn't the correct word to describe it.

But since AD itself describes wild accelerations in development, I suppose the need for an adjective reduces and it isn't needed, so I agree with the removal of "enhanced".

First of all, the entirety of the description for the first scan doesn't match the scan... Second of all, I don't see how this ability meets the requirements for the ability since it's not supernatural.. Not to mention (I may be wrong), but this is the scene where some "mercenaries" were gonna fight him as a kid, so it's natural to say they are stronger than the average adult...

"Average adult", the adults he fought were instructors from the White Room.

I don't see how the description doesn't match the scan.
It is mentioned that his physical strength wouldn't be enough to fight the adults (which means that the physical strength of his opponents as of this statement is greater), so it's just an obvious thing to interpret.

They aren't stronger than an "average adult", they are stronger than White Room instructors, characters who are professionals in their field.

This feat is much more ridiculous than it actually seems (since the scan is maybe cropped).

He saw them walk in in suits, determined that they had better physical strength than what he showed before and won with it via seeing their muscle masses through literal suits, and more so, he was able to determine the nature of their movements (via just seeing them walk) and the odds of winning via probabilistic measures "naturally".

Now the 2nd scan is even worse... I don't think I even need to comment on this, why it doesn't even deserve its own ability, nor to be an additional feat for it?

The second scan isn't even independently Information Analysis.

The way information analysis works is simply analysis, which consists of observation fueled by perception (in short, sensory), which then takes makes it take place of a second step which is "scheming", which isn't independently IA, but makes a fundamental foundation for its relevance.

Information Analysis, or Scanning, is the ability to gain information on a character or object by analyzing them. A basic analysis can grant only rudimentary data on the target, such as their level of strength, speed, durability, or intelligence, while more powerful analyses can grant extensive information on the target's abilities and even personal history. This ability often overlaps with Power Mimicry, allowing a character to copy another after analyzing them.

The IA page itself describes two types of IAs, which are basic and "more powerful", while his adult key does include his IA of him scanning an unrealistic ability of Nanase, his 9 y/o key still fits the description of a high-level basic analysis since he was able to scan their strengths via suits and seeing their simple build, plus, he determined the nature of their movements, even though all they had done was merely walking into the room (much more crazier than just determining strength).

The abilities for the Current key

While I don't disagree with the ability, some key parts are extremely wanky. (Analytic prediction)

To be fair, upon more analysis and connection of feats, I have realized that his current profile actually presents a low-level of Analytical Prediction compared to what he should actually possess. (So, this would be one hell of a fun thing to do lol.)

(This is from Y2 volume 6 btw, so even that is wrong)...
While the novel uses some flowery language, it doesn't make up for how deceiving this is... Not only are they talking about a specific event, but they are also talking about the event where the classes are forced to expel someone. (Though I have to say, I don't think it would be that hard for Ayanokoji to realize that Arisu was planning)
Either way, this needs to be removed or heavily altered to better fit the actual feat.

Why should it even be altered? It just clearly mentions what the scan presents. It mentions his psychological warfare AnPr, where he predicts psychological moves of his opponents which is a narrative description of his foresight, I don't really need to elaborate on how VSBW isn't really a wiki which clearly needs a Proven Ability sort of description when a narrative side is already presented such clearly.

I am explaining that this feat is basically just overplayed, and much more concentrated than the current description makes it seem.

I suppose you would be happier with it mentioning that he cannot fully figure out the future? This is actually unneeded considering how the scan clearly mentions it, and the description itself follows the scan word-to-word. I don't really understand how you come to the conclusion that the description of his psychological foresight (NOT COMBAT) is overplayed here.

I just don't think this is a valid feat for the ability.

How so?
Manabu attacked Suzune. He was just moving forward but still Kiyotaka predicted that he was going to throw her, and Manabu even outright mentioned that Kiyotaka figured it out before he did it, CLEARLY so, so I don't see how this isn't valid.

Just wanna remove the bold part, since it has no real prof.

The official illustration from both the LN and the manga are pretty much real proofs:

LN:

Neither of the images make it clear that Housen was going to attack himself. Housen confirmed that he was going to attack himself, and Kiyotaka predicted it. He analytically determined all the possibilities and actions of Housen before he did it, even ranging as far as his connection with Ichika in Y2V1.

This feat actually shows how superior he is in AnPr, which is not limited by just his upper limit analysis (Y1V7 vs Ryuuen, Y2V4 vs Shiba + Tsukishiro), intuitive upper limit guessing (Y2V4 vs Shiba + Tsukishiro) but also includes him formally analyzing all the moves of his opponents, even outside just combat scenarios.

Now onto this...

First of all, I don't think we are seeing the same thing...

We are seeing the same thing? Kei is hiding behind a bush, literally trying to hide herself and Kiyotaka still senses her, and points her out without even looking at her.

In fact, he has done this 4 times in total in the anime itself. I don't really think it's a need to include ALL OF THEM, unless we really want to make his profile an actual bible which it already is.

This part is completely and utterly misleading again. The first one clearly said "dodge", and the other one implies that he won't even be able to fight Ibuki blindfolded.. Now, to give the devil's advocate, the Ibuki one is hard since the "struggle" part is undefined...

The scans clearly imply that he CAN fight both of them blindfolded. Him "struggling" should be a completely different matter, and doesn't invalidate the fact that he can still fight back or do valid moves while being BLINDFOLDED.

So yeah, this also needs to be reworded or removed.

Maybe.

Now this is mostly fine.

Just remove the better, and change the "strength" to "Physical capability" (I can't see the scan, but from my experience with the verse, it should be more proper.)

Agree. The scan is also missing, so can be put.

"Better" is needed if we add the feat of him gauging the ability of Nanase of having an extraordinary dynamic visual acuity which somehow also proves that he can actually analyze even unrealistic abilities of another characters. The "better" is simply for a comparison with his 9 y/o key.

Part 3 - Current key resistances
This part is the most self-evident and made me do this CRT in the first place.

This should be pretty straightforward.

Just reading the description should be a massive red flag, since we know well enough that no supernatural abilities exist within the verse, so the mind-reading thing is entirely flowery language made by Ayanokoji, something he does a lot in the story.

(Not to mention that Tsukihiro's profile is extremely "raw", and doesn't even have "Information Analysis" as an ability on the page.

I agree with this.

But it is still bold of you to assume that even the description containing the words of "reading thoughts" is literally telepathy or a supernatural, when it is also possible that you can predict someone's thoughts by analyzing them.

But yes, this is a counter, not a resistance.

Now moving on to a self-evident debunk

First of all, the current description is extremely misleading, since the scan says that he threw a feint (fake attack), and then after Albert reacted to it, he did his actual attack, so yeah...

The worst part is that this is not even the worst part... Here is the more concerning manner, and it's bolded.

I don't see how throwing a fake attack is anything impossible to do in real life... Hell, we can do that even as kids.

True, this is just a counter again, instead of it being a resistance.

 

[RoggerReggor]

I thougth they were supposed to be equal?

Not really. Y2V3 had them doing a tug of war fight where Kouenji and him were described to be comparable to each other.
Y2V11 confirms that Kouenji only had wincons if the rules were modified in some extent.

In Y2V8, Kiyotaka himself said that he was doing efforts to regain his strength.

Due to this, it is easy to say that Current Kiyotaka should mostly be above Current Kouenji. Current Kouenji upon narrative implications should also be in his prime, while Kiyotaka isn't anywhere near his prime.

 

[MrTayman616]

Not really. Y2V3 had them doing a tug of war fight where Kouenji and him were described to be comparable to each other.

None of them were going all out. No way to explain if Koenji used more strength against Ayanokoji here than he did to the bear.

Y2V11 confirms that Kouenji only had wincons if the rules were modified in some extent.

Ayanokoji still doesn't know how strong Koenji is. His statement can't be used for AP here. He also states if there were specific rules, Koenji would have advantages based on the body, means he has more raw power regardless.

“If it's a fight based on specific rules, I think you’d have the advantage.” In terms of physique and muscle mass, Kōenji would undoubtedly be superior.This was a number that couldn’t be overturned.

Due to this, it is easy to say that Current Kiyotaka should mostly be above Current Kouenji. Current Kouenji upon narrative implications should also be in his prime, while Kiyotaka isn't anywhere near his prime.

From a reading perspective, yes. But from a scaling perspective, not at all.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

I would prefer to keep the scaling aspect to my next thread (I plan to do a Physical capability one, and an intelligence one). The intelligence CRT will not be a debunk, since I wanna just separate the combat from overall intelligence.

 

[RoggerReggor]

None of them were going all out. No way to explain if Koenji used more strength against Ayanokoji here than he did to the bear.

Ayanokoji still doesn't know how strong Koenji is. His statement can't be used for AP here. He also states if they were specific rules, Koenji would have advantages based on the body, means he has more raw power regardless.


From a reading perspective, yes. But from a scaling perspective, not at all.

I don't really take any of this considering how both V0 and the scans in his current key just show that he has enough information analysis and even metacognition to deliver statements on the many more aspects than just overall strength. So yes, I do really take his statements in which he determines outcomes of the fight as true.

I would prefer to keep the scaling aspect to my next thread (I plan to do a Physical capability one, and an intelligence one). The intelligence CRT will not be a debunk, since I wanna just separate the combat from overall intelligence.

It's fine. Sure.

 

[FinePoint]

looks pretty good (if it matters i agree)

It technically does not for the sake of the thread being approved.

However, knowing if other members of the community (especially if they're knowledgeable of the verse) agree can still be helpful in influencing the opinions of those whose vote does matter.

Speaking of, I essentially agree with the OP.

In regards to what should be moved to intelligence, I'd say pretty much all of the things being removed hint at some level of intelligence if not an actual ability.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

looks pretty good (if it matters i agree)

This crt is pretty much a good example why non staff input is really important

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Bump

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Bump

 

[Vzearr]

Bump.

 

[Dinozxd]

The entire last part of it being different from photographic memory is just "wank", and should just be renamed from "perfect Memory" to the normal abability.

While I agree that "Perfect Memory" does sound kinda wanky, I'd say that it describes the ability Koji has better than the normal ability name so I'm gonna have to disagree with this.

I don't see anywhere how it mentions that this is a property of the Whiteroom, nor is it on its wiki page. So I don't see why it's assumed to also be a part of Ayanokoji's whiteroom key.

Agreed. Having higher training than the other character shouldn't give automatically give you the abilities of that character unless it's specifcally stated.

supernatural

Just let some abilities be non-supernatural man... Something as basic as Info Analysis shouldn't have to be supernatural or outright superhuman.

(This is from Y2 volume 6 btw, so even that is wrong)...
While the novel uses some flowery language, it doesn't make up for how deceiving this is... Not only are they talking about a specific event, but they are also talking about the event where the classes are forced to expel someone. (Though I have to say, I don't think it would be that hard for Ayanokoji to realize that Arisu was planning)
Either way, this needs to be removed or heavily altered to better fit the actual feat.

Neutral on this as I don't really know the context.

I just don't think this is a valid feat for the ability.

Especially considering the manga adaptation of the scene.

This part is completely and utterly misleading again. The first one clearly said "dodge", and the other one implies that he won't even be able to fight Ibuki blindfolded.. Now, to give the devil's advocate, the Ibuki one is hard since the "struggle" part is undefined...

So yeah, this also needs to be reworded or removed.

Agreed with this, neutral on the Kei scene.

Just reading the description should be a massive red flag, since we know well enough that no supernatural abilities exist within the verse, so the mind-reading thing is entirely flowery language made by Ayanokoji, something he does a lot in the story.

Agreed with this. Always thought that "reading 99 percent of his mind" thing was bs.

First of all, the current description is extremely misleading, since the scan says that he threw a feint (fake attack), and then after Albert reacted to it, he did his actual attack, so yeah...

I think Zetsu proposed a pretty good way to fix this. I agree with him.

 

[Vietthai96]

Look fine to me, unless of course supporters can bring up evidences and arguments to counter the OP

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Then I will implement all of this in a bit. I would like to request the help of the supporters, though, to move the relevant feats to the "feats section" or the "intelligence section."

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Also, would love it if they could replace the card-game scan.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

I have now implemented the changes. Please feel free to look over them and correct them if I messed something up.