Axl Ro Vs Lucy(Elfin Lied)

[Abysswalker2126]

Trying again to complete a match with Lucy
Axl Ro Vs Lucy
Speed Equalized
Both start 10 meters apart
Lucy has prior Knowledge of Civil War’s Final ability while Axl has knowledge of her vectors
Fight takes place at Gettysburg,PA
Teen Lucy is used

Axl:

Lucy:

Incon:4

 

[Abysswalker2126]

Bump

 

[Cyberblader90]

bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

What is the range between them? Remember, Civil War itself is intangible but the user isn't

Also, does Lucy feel guilt for her kills (I've seen the kill count. It was gruesome and had very high numbers but does she really regret any of them?). This is important since Axl's immortality is based off that. If she feels guilt for all those deaths, Axl wins. If she had no remorse whatsoever, Axl doesn't stand a chance

 

[Abysswalker2126]

What is the range between them? Remember, Civil War itself is intangible but the user isn't

Also, does Lucy feel guilt for her kills (I've seen the kill count. It was gruesome and had very high numbers but does she really regret any of them?). This is important since Axl's immortality is based off that. If she feels guilt for all those deaths, Axl wins. If she had no remorse whatsoever, Axl doesn't stand a chance

She does have moments of regret such as when she felt that she failed to save the puppy she was taking care of saying she wasn’t robust enough to protect it apologizing to it at its grave

At one she has a haunting hallucination at one point of the mutilated corpses of the bullies that killed the said puppy taunting her how society would never except her after her past actions

Kouta demands she stop killing, a plea that seems as much for her as for Yuka. Whatever the source of it, Lucy quickly realizes that she misread Kouta, and now has caused him unforgivable harm. Like Javert in Les Miserables, a world of grays is too much for her to bear, and she flees the murder scene. Unlike Javert, her goal is not suicide but to one day find the means and courage to apologize to Kouta.

 

[Abysswalker2126]

Also I already stated they start 10 Meters apart

 

[Peppersalt43]

Well in that case, my vote's on Axl. He almost killed Hot Pants using one single memory. If her guilt is strong enough to make her consider to stop killing, something she's done pretty often, it's probably strong enough for Civil War to use against her or at least grant Axl the ability to come back as a manifestation.

There are two ways this can go wrong. One, the fight somehow leads them to a bathroom or water source meaning that Lucy can dispel Axl's manifestation, rendering his immortality and manifestations useless (I don't actually remember something like this happening. I should probably read the arc again).

Two, Lucy gets the jump on Axl and kills him first. She's killed countless people in brutal ways. What's one more going to do? With how quick and efficient vectors kill, it's probably not so bad. Though it is pretty hard to do anything when you're being strangled and wrapped by a giant plastic bag. At that point, Axl can probably tell her his tragic backstory to make her feel guilty for killing him.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

The problem is, once you got caught by Civil Wars, there's no escape from it unless you embraced and admitted your guilt/sin

Lucy mental and sanity are really unstable af so it would hard for her to accepted her sin and guilt, then again her vector are still a problematic for Axl

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Isn't being caught in Civil Wars effect basically mean you cannot kills Axl since he will created a new body after being killed?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Isn't being caught in Civil Wars effect basically mean you cannot kills Axl since he will created a new body after being killed?

From what i remember yeah, unless Lucy accepted her sin/guilt she can't escape from Civil Wars and Axl can ressurected as much as he want

If she accepted it then Axl would get reckt, just like what Johnny did after he accepted his sin by shooting himself

 

[Jamesthetaker]

It depend on her character, i think but i know nothing about Lucy so i'll leave to someone else.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I already contacted @Migue79 to come here

 

[Chariot190]

What is the range between them? Remember, Civil War itself is intangible but the user isn't

Also, does Lucy feel guilt for her kills (I've seen the kill count. It was gruesome and had very high numbers but does she really regret any of them?). This is important since Axl's immortality is based off that. If she feels guilt for all those deaths, Axl wins. If she had no remorse whatsoever, Axl doesn't stand a chance

You don't need to feel guilt, it's more along the lines of if it's considered a "sin". If you feel guilt, it obviously counts but that's because it's considered a sacrifice one made, but you can not feel guilt and it'd still count none the less if it falls under the definition of a "sin" or a sacrifice. Johnny for example didn't give a shit he killed Axl, he also didn't give a shit about half the things that came to **** him up, but it counted because he did it in a way it counted as a sin or a sacrifice. Funny got away with it because he didn't actually kill Axl, merely injured him to save someone else, didn't count as a sin nor a sacrifice as Axl didn't die.

Lucy would need to kill Axl in a way that's 100% justified, without guilt, and for it to considered not a sin or a sacrifice.

Meaning, yeah no Lucy is ******. But then again so is Axl, he can't win this even if he can't lose it.

Axl can't kill Lucy either, if he does, it gets put back on him. Axl isn't made for vs matches, he's highly specific and niche and isn't meant to fight.


Also yes, Civil War has nothing to do if you feel "guilty", hell that word isn't even used once in the arc, it's entirely dependent on if it's a "sin" or a "sacrifice". But either way, this doesn't end in a win for either parties, they literally can't kill each other even if they have the means to, or even if they do, they just get brought back, they can't do **** all, swap Axl out for someone else tbh.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

A bad matchup, huh?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

To be fair, Axl had a pretty much a bad match-up potential like Lightning Mcqueen

@Chariot190 Thanks for the correction, my knowledge on Part 7 are so limited le

 

[Chariot190]

Axl is cool and has cool abilities, but he can't really ever win, his main goal was never to kill Johnny, because he couldn't. It was just "get corpse, get sins past over to someone else, **** off with corpse and escape".

Axl can only ever lose or tie, unless you put him against someone he could reasonably kill or injure enough to where he can safely deactivate his Stand and have his foe die outside of the effects, which is probably limited to tier 9 dudes only.

 

[Peppersalt43]

You don't need to feel guilt, it's more along the lines of if it's considered a "sin". If you feel guilt, it obviously counts but that's because it's considered a sacrifice one made, but you can not feel guilt and it'd still count none the less if it falls under the definition of a "sin" or a sacrifice. Johnny for example didn't give a shit he killed Axl, he also didn't give a shit about half the things that came to **** him up, but it counted because he did it in a way it counted as a sin or a sacrifice. Funny got away with it because he didn't actually kill Axl, merely injured him to save someone else, didn't count as a sin nor a sacrifice as Axl didn't die.

Lucy would need to kill Axl in a way that's 100% justified, without guilt, and for it to considered not a sin or a sacrifice.

Meaning, yeah no Lucy is ******. But then again so is Axl, he can't win this even if he can't lose it.

Axl can't kill Lucy either, if he does, it gets put back on him. Axl isn't made for vs matches, he's highly specific and niche and isn't meant to fight.


Also yes, Civil War has nothing to do if you feel "guilty", hell that word isn't even used once in the arc, it's entirely dependent on if it's a "sin" or a "sacrifice". But either way, this doesn't end in a win for either parties, they literally can't kill each other even if they have the means to, or even if they do, they just get brought back, they can't do **** all, swap Axl out for someone else tbh.

Huh, must've interpreted the arc wrong then. I genuinely thought there was a tactical reason Axl explained his tragic backstory. Turns out my brain messed up my memory. Axl told his backstory AFTER being killed

Anyway I just found the arc, I got to read it and the part where Johnny removed the manifestation with water. I also found out that Civil War could make lots of manifestations (The part where Johnny gets surrounded by multiple instances of Danny the mouse). This means that even if you remove a manifestation, another copy of it will haunt you again.

So yeah, I change my vote to inconclusive unless one side is willing to retire to a beach or something

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

If that's the case then i'll go with Incon as well

 

[Popted2]

just a question how does it work civil war?

 

[Chariot190]

just a question how does it work civil war?

It creates a weird dimensional space, and then sacrifices/sins/etc go brrrr. Also you cant kill a foe or vice versa as if you do, they become sacrifices and basically respawn out of nothing via the killer's sin.

Also the sacrifices can be made to attack and they can fuse and asphyxiate the target but that part is eh as water can purify it and wash it away (Though JoJoveller notes that water doesnt work on "large sins" only minor ones).

 

[Abysswalker2126]

You don't need to feel guilt, it's more along the lines of if it's considered a "sin". If you feel guilt, it obviously counts but that's because it's considered a sacrifice one made, but you can not feel guilt and it'd still count none the less if it falls under the definition of a "sin" or a sacrifice. Johnny for example didn't give a shit he killed Axl, he also didn't give a shit about half the things that came to **** him up, but it counted because he did it in a way it counted as a sin or a sacrifice. Funny got away with it because he didn't actually kill Axl, merely injured him to save someone else, didn't count as a sin nor a sacrifice as Axl didn't die.

Lucy would need to kill Axl in a way that's 100% justified, without guilt, and for it to considered not a sin or a sacrifice.

Meaning, yeah no Lucy is ******. But then again so is Axl, he can't win this even if he can't lose it.

Axl can't kill Lucy either, if he does, it gets put back on him. Axl isn't made for vs matches, he's highly specific and niche and isn't meant to fight.


Also yes, Civil War has nothing to do if you feel "guilty", hell that word isn't even used once in the arc, it's entirely dependent on if it's a "sin" or a "sacrifice". But either way, this doesn't end in a win for either parties, they literally can't kill each other even if they have the means to, or even if they do, they just get brought back, they can't do **** all, swap Axl out for someone else tbh.

I actually talked to the Jojo YouTuber Hamon Beat and he said that dying to the manifestations don’t count as a sin

 

[Chariot190]

And? Based on what exactly? That's never stated anywhere nor is it shown, at all, not in the manga and definitely not in the guides.
It's at best an assumption, an assumption based on a arbitrary distinction not actually made in any canonical material.

If we want to avoid entering the realm of speculation, then no, that isn't a thing. It may be a somewhat reasonable assumption, but we don't have any info to confirm it, but we do know that if Axl does something to cause an opponent's death, it's qualified as a sin, and we know indirect deaths can be considered sins based on other characters, need a statement here to confirm that Axl commanding his foe to be ripped apart by hordes of pasts sins doesn't fall under a thing he's responsible for.

 

[Abysswalker2126]

And? Based on what exactly? That's never stated anywhere nor is it shown, at all, not in the manga and definitely not in the guides.
It's at best an assumption, an assumption based on a arbitrary distinction not actually made in any canonical material.

If we went to avoid entering the realm of speculation, then no, that isn't a thing.

What if Axl has prior knowledge of Lucy’s heinous acts of mass murder and atrocities would it then be viewed as justified as it would be in the name of saving the human race?

 

[Chariot190]

Maybe? But at that point that's gonna end up as a stomp in his favor, because he still won't be able to die by Lucy's hands, and even if he does, he'd come back, but if he kills her, it'd be fine, assuming he truly believes it's good and it's an actual good act (For example, he thought killing Johnny was needed to save the corpse, still counted as a sin, even if the corpse was good for humanity).

Like, let's say it DOES count and he can kill her safely, it's probably a stomp because Lucy can't kill him so it's just a matter of time till she's like asphyxiated by fusionism or torn apart by all those she's wronged.

Idk seems a bit unfair.

 

[Migue79]

I was asked to give my input here.

So… Something I would like to correct about Lucy here:

Ironically, she didn’t stop killing after she killed Kouta’s sister & father and that whole carnival incident (the former is the only couple of sins she regrets). In fact, it was right after that that she went on to kill thousands of people and take their homes to live in (savage Ik lol).

I am aware that the whole guilt stuff was misinterpreted for Civil War, but I still feel like I needed to correct this.

Anywho, if Civil War works the way Chariot190 illustrates, then this is another inconclusive lol. And if Axl’s given prior knowledge, then he stomps.

I’ll go ahead and vote for Incon in the meantime.

 

[Abysswalker2126]

I was asked to give my input here.

So… Something I would like to correct about Lucy here:

Ironically, she didn’t stop killing after she killed Kouta’s sister & father and that whole carnival incident (the former is the only couple of sins she regrets). In fact, it was right after that that she went on to kill thousands of people and take their homes to live in (savage Ik lol).

I am aware that the whole guilt stuff was misinterpreted for Civil War, but I still feel like I needed to correct this.

Anywho, if Civil War works the way Chariot190 illustrates, then this is another inconclusive lol. And if Axl’s given prior knowledge, then he stomps.

I’ll go ahead and vote for Incon in the meantime.

If Lucy can incap Axl without killing him and get away it’s her win and I did already give her prior knowledge of what killing him would do unless she’s just too unhinged to really care about what happens if that’s the case then it’s fair play that she knowingly disregards her win con

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

BUMP!!

 

[Abysswalker2126]

Bump

 

[Abysswalker2126]

Bump

 

[Sonicflare9]

incon fra

 

[Abysswalker2126]

Bump