Author Statements: A Different Tier Change

[Angry_Dummy]

Being the one who wrote about 57% of this page, explaining how we can determine if a statement is good enough to justify a tier-upgrade for a new member, but now I have a question of my own regarding the subject: Can an author "Joss" a tier statement and, in doing so, bring their tier down?

Let me give some different scenarios for contrast and demonstration, using my imaginary, wish-fulfillment filled future self as the example. I will also provide suggested responses.


Let's say that I became a lead writer, director, animator, or whatnot for an urban fantasy series, using the knowledge I gained here at this site to help me develop better and more consistent stories, lacking in Outliers and Inconsistencies, producing incredibly popular stories which quickly became well known. Because I'm a sucker for heroes on the low end of the spectrum who are forced to win using wits and trickery to defeat their destructively potent adversaries, the main characters are all psuedo SWAT team members who I averaged in at around tier 9, the strongest of them being room level, and the weakest being peak physical human.

Feeling rather full of myself, having done almost all of the work on the franchise, I decided to check by this site and see what you guys were doing with them in VS debates, possibly while singing the theme song for Cannon Fodder ("Go up to your brother. Kill him with your gun. Leave him lying in his uniform, dying in the sun!"). I find myself elated to see that every single character has a page, and then shocked to see that my plucky sniper lead is registered as small city level, faster than light, and tough enough to tank a flaming meteor twenty-thousand times her size. Upset by this, I decide to notify you and request a change. I do this by saying...

1) "These tiers are WAY too overblown..." with no further explanation.

Maybe I was just busy and felt like putting my two cents on your work as quickly as possible and then left. Maybe I just didn't care. Regardless, I didn't give much detail. Am I to be trusted?

If I were you, I would ask myself to elaborate. Next up...

2) "The tiering for Sling is way too overblown. While he was able to injure his sorceress sister Ruby, who could easily create and destroy planes of existence wth her magic, which clocks her in at low 2-C (they were pretty small ones), she's not much tougher than is normal for their race. He shouldn't hit on par with the 3-A to possibly 1-B god tier characters."

The most likely response I would give in this scenario. I have provided a Word of God explanation for the calcs present that elevated the character that reasonably explains the situation and shines less brightly on the character. Do we allow that explanation?

Once again, if I were you, then I would take my words to heart and change the tiering to better reflect the characters, thus resulting in an impressivly brave/foolish 9-A character and an oddly delicate low 2-C character.

3) "The Basilisk Twins are not 8-A for slicing through entire city blocks with their razor-sharp wings."

I have a weakness for alcoholic beverages. That's the only reason why I would dare claim such a thing, ever.

This logic is not actually logic. It's ignorance, stupidity, and a mark of laziness.

If I were you, I would mark down this ruling right after the base ruling, scribed in the key as "According to author," and then leave a note about what I said and pointing out exactly how wrong it is.

4) "This whole site is the dumbest thing I have ever seen."

Also a drug-induced statement. I don't actually think this, but drugs might... err... overemphasize certain beliefs of mine.

If I were you, I would remove the comment and deal with people who actually have something meaningful to contribute. Insulting people who enjoy your work is not okay, me! I thought you learned this over a decade ago! >_<

5) "My characters are too weak."

Please write some stories where they're stronger, me. THEN you can come back and ask for upgrades.

And besides, we're dealing with downgrades. This is about humility.


So, how do we handle authors who do this, if they care?

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Feats are considered greater than author statements unless in rare cases (like a franchise filled with Plot Induced Stupidity).

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Depends.

If author makes a statement about a new feats, thus putting the character higher, or if they clarify a vague statement, they can be in. But usually, Feats > WoG

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Feats are always regarded above statements. If feats contradict statement several times, often the statement is considered hyperbole. Author's intentions are irrelevant

 

[Antvasima]

Well, feats and in-universe explanations are considered superior, but WOG can be useful as well, if sufficiently detailed.

 

[Angry_Dummy]

Well, I'm focusing more on DOWNGRADING the characters.

Can an author tell our site that their calculations are false and have us listen?

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, but they would have to be thorough in their explanations, and if said explanations strongly contradict what is shown in the series, we would likely have to politely tell them that in-series evidence is prioritised in such situations.

Of course, then they could easily incorporate some new evidence into the series, which would leave us with contradictory evidence, and a potential headache to deal with.

 

[Angry_Dummy]

Yes, but they would have to be thorough in their explanations, and if said explanations strongly contradict what is shown in the series, we would likely have to politely tell them that in-series evidence is prioritised in such situations.
Of course, then they could easily incorporate some new evidence into the series, which would leave us with contradictory evidence, and a potential headache to deal with.

Okay, I see then.
So...

If the author comes up with a thorough explanation for the event that raised the characters up, then they're golden.

If the author isn't talking sense, then we don't pay heed. We don't snark behind their backs like I would, but we don't pay heed.

If the author comes up with new, canonical evidence for a lower tier that directly contradicts previous statements, we then stick it in the "Inconsistencies and Outliers" bin and pretend it doesn't exist, just like we did the Multi-Galaxy level tiny laser pointer that took out Goku.


Now my question is, "What counts as a thorough WoG hand wave?"

 

[Antvasima]

I don't have answers to every type of hypothetical generalised scenario. We would have to evaluate it on a case-by-case basis while asking the community for input, as usual.

 

[KamiYasha]

Well, It depends.

If tomorrow Kishimoto (creator of Naruto) says: well, Naruto is a 4000 D being. (aside that is ridiculous) It does't fit into the whole series.

Then you have statements like Kinoko Nasu's (fate series, novels and etc) that are far contrary to what they show in tye games/series/novels, etc.

Mostly depends if it's contradictory or not. At least IMO.

 

[Angry_Dummy]

...Maybe I shouldn't have brought up that last example...


I'd like some more focus on authors suggesting a downgrade, as opposed to the upgrades that are constantly getting supported and suggested.

"I like what you're tying to do here, but I think you're overestimating my toons..."

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

The same thing would apply. If it's contradictory to the standing of the series or feats, it will be discarded.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

If a character is consistently shown to be universe level, and author tries to downgrade it to city buster it will obviously not be counted.

 

[Angry_Dummy]

If a character is consistently shown to be universe level, and author tries to downgrade it to city buster it will obviously not be counted.

I already had that figured out, as example 3 shows.

I was asking the question with the thought-process of, "Their work seems all over the place, some feats are confusing, figuring out the viability of certain calcs and deciding what's an outlier is a pain, but the author is happy to help set the tone of the series: ...a lot lower than many were expecting. "

"He has a solid explanation for the larger feats (e.g. "Glenda threw her back out when she lifted and threw that eightteen wheeler truck twenty yards at the mutant supervillain Anansi, and she was under the influence of a temporary magical enhancement, which she took before the fight and rarely pops, and a truckload of adrenaline. She may be the world champion wrestler and a ten-foot tall, regenerating troll, but she isn't that strong all the time. Keep her at Wall-level for the most-part, but feel free to keep the new score for when she eventually has to pop her energy-drink in case someone wants to use it!"), and he's read the rules of the site and is obviously on the same page as us."

Would we accept his WoG explanation on this matter?

I ask, mostly, because I dream of being this guy, but I don't want to leave this site behind. I'd love to help it grow and offer my support in any way I can. I might be somewhat dense at times, but if I see that people are interested in examining my work beyond the MST3K mantra and on a level higher than I intended, I will happily cooperate to help ya'll out, and use your input to make my work better and more consistent (and fun to debate)!

 

[Antvasima]

This is a hypothetical scenario, and as such isn't really worth spending any more time examining, as far as I am concerned. We have plenty of other issues to take up our time and attention.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Okay Antvasima. I'll close this then.