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Auswahlen and Light of Lille

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USklaverei said:
I love how you ignore the whole context to force a single isolated scan.
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Ignoring scans and therefore ignoring context is what you are doing. I am showing that it is objectively incorrect to act as if the attack only moves on a straight line.

It doesn't. It curves. Ergo, it cannot be argued to be real light based on that.

And once again, I'm gonna ask you to stop being confrontational.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
Please don't.
The light in all other scans is straight, your evidence relies on perspective as Warren pointed out. But we see that exact beam as a straight line in all other scans of it consistently.
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It isn't perspective. I saw Warren's posts and his example of the birds is nothing like that.
 
Normally I'd agree with you on that regard, I don't quite enjoy that argument myself but in this particular case I'd say that it's valid. This differs from the pixel scaling vs statements argument for the sizes for things in Bleach but this one is relatively straightforward. The light is drawn perfectly straight all but once, so it's much more consistent than one inconsistent drawing. From what I know of this verse people have issues with how the pixel scaling is treated against the statements for sizes and such. So essentially those are art vs statements, this is different however. It's one showing of inconsistent art vs the rest of the consistent art, using the one showing of it bending slightly seems like cherry picking and grasping for straws to me since the rest of the art shows the light traveling straight. Under normal circumstances I wouldn't agree with using the inconsistently of the art as an argument however in this case the light is shown to be consistently straight as compared to one showing of it being curved slightly.
 
@Rin

That's not really what's going on at all, it's not cherrypicking.

In one scene the light beams are shown moving in straight lines. In all the other scans posted it is unclear. Then in this scene they bend. It's not a matter of inconsistency.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
That isn't my point. It curving doesn't impede it from moving straight. But if it was real light it would only move straight.
I love that the people are immediately jumping to the "Kubo Artwork" defense, however.
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My argument is saying that it isn't curving, but that each light beam is moving at a different angle because they are aiming for different targets across the Seireitei- meaning from that perspective, the beams of light looked curve, not that the beams are curving.


But even if I am wrong, and the light is curving, so what? I don't get your logic. Why would one small instance of what looks to be light curving, invalidate the fact that the same light is shown straight in numerous other panels.

It's like saying that Goku can't be 3-A because he got scratched by a bullet in one random Slice-of-Life episode.

Inconsistencies exist, but they should be ignored and the more consistent feats and showings should be used and applied because they are that, consistent.

Again, I would concede if your point is consistent as I said before, but it isn't.
 
Going by the rest of the scans that Warren posted the light seems to be going straight. Could someone list off the arguments for the light being valid vs the light not being true light? I'm not exactly familiar with the verse myself since I tend to stay away from Naruto and Bleach threads but this case seems rather black and white.
 
How are other scans unclear? at least 3 of the scans show a straight beam. Unless you expected to see a collage of images decipting the beam entirely from seireitei to the palace.

In your nitpicked scan you show us 1 of 8 that are potentially curved.
 
Rin The Dragon Empress said:
Normally I'd agree with you on that regard, I don't quite enjoy that argument myself but in this particular case I'd say that it's valid. This differs from the pixel scaling vs statements argument for the sizes for things in Bleach but this one is relatively straightforward. The light is drawn perfectly straight all but once, so it's much more consistent than one inconsistent drawing. From what I know of this verse people have issues with how the pixel scaling is treated against the statements for sizes and such. So essentially those are art vs statements, this is different however. It's one showing of inconsistent art vs the rest of the consistent art, using the one showing of it bending slightly seems like cherry picking and grasping for straws to me since the rest of the art shows the light traveling straight. Under normal circumstances I wouldn't agree with using the inconsistently of the art as an argument however in this case the light is shown to be consistently straight as compared to one showing of it being curved slightly.
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I agree with Rin, and think that it was just artistic license. My apologies Matthew.
 
For Auswhalen

1. Called light by everyone

2. All but 1 scan show the light moving in a straight line

3. The light manages to pass through two different barriers that absorb reishi/reiryoku (everything else in the dimension) without obstruction, twice

For Lille

1. Stated to be light

2. Always moves in straight lines

3. Reflects off of a reflective surface (sword)

4. Used to dispel shadows
 
"It's like saying that Goku can't be 3-A because he got scratched by a bullet."

False equivalency. That's an outlier equivalency of scale. Art is something else entirely and you can't look at so called artwork "inconsistencies" like that. The beam being shown to bend is a depiction of it literally bending, that is not something you can argue against. To insist with absolute certainty that it's something else is to extrapolate from authorial intent without any proof whatsoever.

It is a headcanon.
 
Rin The Dragon Empress said:
Going by the rest of the scans that Warren posted the light seems to be going straight. Could someone list off the arguments for the light being valid vs the light not being true light? I'm not exactly familiar with the verse myself since I tend to stay away from Naruto and Bleach threads but this case seems rather black and white.
Click to expand...
From my knowledge...

Pro-Light:

  • It's described as light
  • It's said not to be made of Reishi
  • All panels sans one show it moving in a straight line, like light.
  • The beams are able to pass through the Shakonmaku barrier without resistance. The barrier is specifically there to keep out foreign people/things/etcetera, and the only thing that was shown to pass through it without resistance is sunlight and Auswählen.
Anti-Light:

  • In one panel the beams are slightly curving, and thus not acting like real light, so the beams aren't really light.
 
Then it should be good to use and consider as light speed at least for the Mustache man. I don't see anything that suggests that his light isn't valid considering it's been called light by everyone, moves in a straight line, is intangible and phases through objects that absorbs the verses energy. There's more than of it being true light than it being fake light from the information I've gathered on this thread. There's multiple pieces of evidence going for it being true light vs one anti feat ( If you can call it that, I'd say it's just an inconsistent art error since it's shown to be traveling straight in the rest of the scans. ) so I'd say it should apply to Mustache man. I won't speak on Lillie for the time being but he doesn't seem to have as much going for him.
 
@Antvasima

I think we should make this a consensus soon. The only thing being persisted here is a game of one who comments last.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
"It's like saying that Goku can't be 3-A because he got scratched by a bullet."
False equivalency. That's an outlier equivalency of scale. Art is something else entirely and you can't look at so called artwork "inconsistencies" like that. The beam being shown to bend is a depiction of it literally bending, that is not something you can argue against. To insist with absolute certainty that it's something else is to extrapolate from authorial intent without any proof whatsoever.

It is a headcanon.
Click to expand...
I don't see why the same logic can't apply.

An inconsistency is and inconsistency - no matter what form.


And to say that art can't be inconsistent between panels is just wrong. And to call out someone saying that the art is inconsistent as them simply using their headcanon is also wrong.

To bring up another Dragon Ball example, in the twenty-second chapter of the manga "The End of the Tale".

Goku's size within his Oozaru form is wildly inconsistent.

In one panel, you can see Goku burst through the upper floors of the castle, in other panels he is as large as the entire castle itself, and in other panels, he is only about three times the size of Yamcha.

Does this mean that Goku is changing sizes randomly as an Oozaru? No, the artwork is just inconsistent.


The same logic can apply to Bleach, and the light of Auswählen - consistency is key and should be what is used.
 
There is also the possibility of it not even being called light on the original japanese as there is inconsistency with how the term "light" is handled in Bleach translations. A lot of times it actually means "energy" in Japanese.
 
There is not much to talk about.
The light emitted by Lille is being reflected by the Sword , this is shown,but even Nanao herself says that the light is being reflected . How is this not a refraction?
 
It is being reflected by the sword through its reflective abilities. It isn't actual light reflecting of an actual mirror and the same character displays light attacks which in no way, shape or form fit the criteria for real light. You cannot seriously argue for this point US.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
It is being reflected by the sword through its reflective abilities. It isn't actual light reflecting of an actual mirror and the same character displays light attacks which in no way, shape or form fit the criteria for real light. You cannot seriously argue for this point US.
Click to expand...
You have to prove it, your word is not rule.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
ShinyLille
Nanao sword
Clearly it's real reflection here, her paddle has metal in it which is probably a diamond.
Click to expand...
Could you send me the link to those colorful chapters?
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
They literally explain that the sword has the power to reflect attacks. It's not a legitimate feat, this is pure dishonesty.
Click to expand...
Why does it having the ability to reflect a God's power back at him mean it isn't light? The power of the sword is Reflection, a mirror's sole purpose is to reflect an image back towards the viewer.


Lille's light is stated to be Light and illuminates shadows and darkness, and has shown to move in straight paths, as Light does.

It was reflected by Nanaos's blade in the same manner that light is reflected off a mirror.

While it doesn't have as much proof as Auswählen, I don't see anything debunking it as Light.
 
I means that it isn't a legitimate mirror reflection feat. It's a supernatural ability to reflect attacks. That's all it is.
 
Everything else that gets hit with the light gets erased so .... yeah. Thats why the Shinken is important, it doesn't get destroyed by the light.
 
There are some sites that have some of the Bleach scans raw. I found one that has a few of the Bleach chapters in Japanese including most of the Lille fight but the ones with Yhwach using Aushwalen to revive the elite guards can't be found online for free. https://sakuramanga.net/truyen-tranh-tieng-nhat-japanese-manga/bleach-truyen-tranh-tieng-nhat/bleach-ÒâûÒâ¬Òâ╝Òâü-chap-651/

AA864DD4-038D-49DF-AC5F-04F6FD81C730
Here Nanao says light of god or god's light. Not entirely sure which but I know light is mentioned here.

And just saying I'm only gonna be posting the scans. I don't really want to get involved in the Bleach light shenanigan.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
You're the only one that claims it isn't legitmate, the diamonds on the paddle are metallic.
Click to expand...
If there was a crowd of 30 people and everyone was leaping off a building but one would you go with the other 29?
 
Peter1129 said:
AA864DD4-038D-49DF-AC5F-04F6FD81C730
Here Nanao says light of god or god's light. Not entirely sure which but I know light is mentioned here.

And that's all I'm gonna comment I don't want to get involved in this Bleach light shenanigan.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the scan. Light is Õàë, pronounced Hikari, which appears in this scan a couple times so there goes mistranslation argument.
 
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