Austin Theory vs Little Mac

[RandomGuy2345]

Theory was able to defeat Finn Balor for the United States Championship, becoming the youngest US Champion in WWE history. Now here's where I go to talking about Finn Balor's skill.

So let’s talk about what is often hugely overlooked about Bálor, his weight. He weighs in at around 190 lbs, but I’m sure you’re asking “hey, isn’t that a little light?” And you’d be absolutely right. You see, WWE had until recently another show, outside of the main roster, 205 Live. This was a show dedicated to wrestlers that are, well, 205 lbs and under. But why were they segregated like this? Well, it’s because, like most combat sports, WWE has weight classes to keep things fair. The general consensus is that most of the time, the < 205 lbs wrestlers are better amongst themselves, than inevitably getting squashed every week on Raw, Smackdown, or even NXT. However, there are exceptions, and Bálor is a prime example. I’m merely setting the context here that Bálor is punching above his weight class (literally) when he does all the amazing things he does in the main roster, which most of his weight couldn’t even reach. Finn Balor is able to give the likes of Roman Reigns and Brock Lesnar a good run for their money.

Roman Reigns has fought against Brock Lesnar on numerous occasions, and has even won 2 of their battles. He's also defeated The Undertaker at Wrestlemania, becoming the 2nd person to do this. Now, let me show you some skill feats for Lesnar and Taker.


The Undertaker is considered the greatest pure striker in Sports Entertainment history. Even the likes of Kurt Angle was scared to take a punch from him.

If ya don't know Kurt Angle, he's notorious for winning a gold medal with a broken neck, who is this skilled, and was named the greatest shoot wrestler ever.

The Undertaker was undefeated at Wrestlemania for 21 straight years, so that also says alot, especially considering that Undertaker defeated some of the best in the business to keep his streak intact (Randy Orton, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, and many more).

The Undertaker also defeated Goldberg (this match was so shit, but just try to ignore that). Goldberg had a winning streak of 173-0 at one point, so even more impressive.

Finn Balor also won a triple threat between Drew McIntyre and Dolph Ziggler, pinning Ziggler.

Ziggler has a great amateur wrestling background. Ziggler set the record for most pins in St. Edward High School with 82 pins. When he was a wrestlers at Kent State University, he at one point, held the record for most career wins in the team's history, earning 121 wins (the record was soon broken, but this still says a lot for how skilled Balor is).

To pour more salt into the wound, Andre the Giant was undefeated for 15 straight years.

Hulk Hogan was able to defeat Andre the Giant, breaking his undefeated 15 year streak.

The Undertaker was able to defeat Hulk Hogan on two different occasions.

Might I mention that The Undertaker has had wars with the likes of Brock Lesnar.

Lesnar had a record of 106-5 in his 4 years of college wrestling at the NCAA, as well as winning the NCAA Division I Heavyweight Championship.

Lesnar also had a UFC career. Lesnar also ended the iconic 21-year Wrestlemania win streak of The Undertaker.

Now, I wouldn't say that Finn is quite on this level of skill, but he was able to hold his own against Roman Reigns, who's defeated The Undertaker and Brock Lesnar, who's done all of this, so he should at best, be comparable to it. Not exactly equal, but for sure comparable.

And this is a guy who shouldn't even be competing against these guys, because he'd get "destroyed" because of the size difference. Theory should also be comparable to this level of skill, as he defeated Balor on numerous occasions.

That should be it. For some reason, I had trouble putting all of the information in one section (haven't had that issue before), but hopefully you can read it well enough.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

My shit is so organized lol

To keep it simple: Theory has defeated Balor on numerous occasions, who has given wrestlers like Roman Reigns and Brock Lesnar a good run for their money, who are this skilled.

 

[Pikaman]

He actually beat Reigns once, and also won a fatal four-way through pinning John Cena

 

[RandomGuy2345]

He actually beat Reigns once,

Tbf, this was before Reigns turned heel and went completely god mode. Every other time Balor and Roman faced (aside from The Demon), Balor has lost, though I'm not knocking that one victory Balor has over Roman. He should at least comparable to Roman in skill, as well as Theory.

and also won a fatal four-way through pinning John Cena

Cena was already hit with a finisher before getting hit with another finisher, but this is valid enough.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Some of us would like to have a debate without devolving into being a dick, which is what you were being. I do not feel the need to debate you, so I won't. I'm not saying others can't debate you, but I won't any further. At least not on this thread.

That should be it. For some reason, I had trouble putting all of the information in one section (haven't had that issue before), but hopefully you can read it well enough.

Finn seems impressive, but in terms of weight class, that... let's just say Mac is 120 pounds soaking wet in winter clothes fighting people who range from over 200 pounds(Disco Kid) to 400 pounds(Bear Hugger), the ladder of which is so far above any weight class it's not even really quantifiable, he's just "heavyweight"

As for the others, you'd frankly need to make a skill blog detailing everything cause I feel there's a lot of feats that aren't being explained well(I'm not readin a Wikipedia article for God's sake) or require a lot more explanation than a summary, so while I'd say Mac would be comparable due to facing greater odds of sheer weight class and long no-loss records and winning, I need a lot more explanation before I'm actually sure about that

 

[Pikaman]

Some of us would like to have a debate without devolving into being a dick, which is what you were being. I do not feel the need to debate you, so I won't. I'm not saying others can't debate you, but I won't any further. At least not on this thread.

Eh, if you wanna feel that way you can. I do think you’re being incredibly harsh by talking of “devolving into being a dick” when you laughed in my face and your argument that prompted my admittedly in poor taste response was a poor and heavily debunked one that showed disrespect towards the verse. Neither of us are knights in shining armour here lol, though I think I myself have probably let my frustrations get the better of me more than I should have, and very much more than you, I apologise for that.
I agree it’s best to drop this however, matches getting toxic leaves a grand total of 0 winners, and I really don’t think anyone will benefit from us continuing to go over this. I will continue to argue your points though, even if I’m not expecting you to reply

Finn seems impressive, but in terms of weight class, that... let's just say Mac is 120 pounds soaking wet in winter clothes fighting people who range from over 200 pounds(Disco Kid) to 400 pounds(Bear Hugger), the ladder of which is so far above any weight class it's not even really quantifiable, he's just "heavyweight"

Yes, the weight class advantage thing gets cancelled out or even trumped by Mac, but it doesn’t take away from his skill feats in their own right, which are still hugely impressive.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Finn seems impressive, but in terms of weight class, that... let's just say Mac is 120 pounds soaking wet in winter clothes fighting people who range from over 200 pounds(Disco Kid) to 400 pounds(Bear Hugger), the ladder of which is so far above any weight class it's not even really quantifiable, he's just "heavyweight"

Bro, Balor vs Mac would've been the better matchup lol. Both are basically underdogs in their verse. Hold on. I might find some feats that can match what you just mentioned for Mac.

Balor fought against Braun Strowman, who weighs 384 pounds, and was seemingly about to beat him before Brock interfered and stopped the match. It's not quite up there with Bear Hugger, but it's pretty damn close. Actually, I have a feat Braun Strowman has shown that can debunk this.

I already said how Balor was seemingly about to win against Strowman, so let's see what Strowman can do.

Strowman had wars with the likes of Bobby Lashely. Not only is Lashely experienced in mixed martial arts, he has also was able to fight on par with Omos, who weighs in at 399 pounds.

Balor actually had a match with Lashley, and had the match in control before Lio Rush distracted him.

Also, I would like to mention that Austin Theory is currently in a rivalry with Bobby Lashley, and is about to face him tonight with the US Title on the line, so this should add even more to Theory's resume.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Bro, Balor vs Mac would've been the better matchup lol. Both are basically underdogs in their verse. Hold on. I might find some feats that can match what you just mentioned for Mac.

Balor fought against Braun Strowman, who weighs 384 pounds, and was seemingly about to beat him before Brock interfered and stopped the match. It's not quite up there with Bear Hugger, but it's pretty damn close. Actually, I have a feat Braun Strowman has shown that can debunk this.

I already said how Balor was seemingly about to win against Strowman, so let's see what Strowman can do.

Strowman had wars with the likes of Bobby Lashely. Not only is Lashely experienced in mixed martial arts, he has also was able to fight on par with Omos, who weighs in at 399 pounds.

Balor actually had a match with Lashley, and had the match in control before Lio Rush distracted him.

Also, I would like to mention that Austin Theory is currently in a rivalry with Bobby Lashley, and is about to face him tonight with the US Title on the line, so this should add even more to Theory's resume.

Then change the match to that, or change the match to Super Macho Man vs Austin Theory, and make a thread for Balor vs Mac

I'd note Balor is 195 pounds from what you've said while Mac is only 107 pounds, and considering King Hippo is bigger than Bear Hugger I'd say he's fought people literally 4x his size, so not entirely comparable but still impressive from Balor

 

[DaReaperMan]

Also I just looked it up and Bear Hugger is 440 pounds, so Mac has actually fought people 4x his size and won

 

[Pikaman]

Bálor vs Mac would've been the better matchup lol.

Yeah that’s what I’ve been thinking...

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Then change the match to that, or change the match to Super Macho Man vs Austin Theory, and make a thread for Balor vs Mac

Nah lol. I'll make these matchups after this.

I'd note Balor is 195 pounds from what you've said while Mac is only 107 pounds, and considering King Hippo is bigger than Bear Hugger I'd say he's fought people literally 4x his size, so not entirely comparable but still impressive from Balor

I guess that's fair.

Also I just looked it up and Bear Hugger is 440 pounds, so Mac has actually fought people 4x his size and won

Makes sense, but size doesn't really matter in this matchup.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Nah lol. I'll make these matchups after this lol


I guess that's fair.


Makes sense, but size doesn't really matter in this matchup.

I'll just vote for Theory to make Mac lose so we can make those matches

It doesn't, but like I said, I'm gonna need more context on WWE skill feats than a summary and such to really say

 

[Pikaman]

Also, I would like to mention that Austin Theory is currently in a rivalry with Bobby Lashley, and is about to face him tonight with the US Title on the line, so this should add even more to Theory's resume.

Match begins like around now right? Will keep tabs on it for sure, good luck, I’d much prefer Theory retains over Lashley getting another title.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

It doesn't, but like I said, I'm gonna need more context on WWE skill feats than a summary and such to really say

Aside from the feats I mentioned about Goldberg's 173-0 streak, as well as Andre the Giant's 15 year undefeated streak, everything I said was pretty well explained.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Match begins like around now right? Will keep tabs on it for sure, good luck, I’d much prefer Theory retains over Lashley getting another title.

Agreed. I believe the MITB PPV already started, so we're likely to see the match later on.

I do think Theory should retain, as WWE are very clearly building up to Cena vs Theory for the US Title at Summerslam. Lashley doesn't really need to win this (though I know for a fact that 90% of wrestling twitter are going to pressed asf if Theory wins. Wrestling twitter hates Theory with a passion lol).

 

[DaReaperMan]

Aside from the feats I mentioned about Goldberg's 173-0 streak, as well as Andre the Giant's 15 year undefeated streak, everything I said was pretty well explained.

It, however, doesn't give me a good idea on a lot of those wins, for all I know they coulda just been apsolute stat stomps

 

[RandomGuy2345]

It, however, doesn't give me a good idea on a lot of those wins, for all I know they coulda just been apsolute stat stomps

I know. Aside from those two things I mentioned, the rest of the skill feats I mentioned are explained pretty well.

 

[Pikaman]

It, however, doesn't give me a good idea on a lot of those wins, for all I know they coulda just been apsolute stat stomps

It included wins over Hulk Hogan and sting off the top of my head

 

[DaReaperMan]

The rest of it is saying X defeated Y without going into their techniques, the details of each fight, and why they won, which is why I said there probably needs to be a blog for skill of WWE

 

[RandomGuy2345]

It included wins over Hulk Hogan and sting off the top of my head

Btw, Hulk Hogan was the guy that ended Andre the Giant's 15-year winning streak.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

The rest of it is saying X defeated Y without going into their techniques, the details of each fight, and why they won, which is why I said there probably needs to be a blog for skill of WWE

I mentioned who the wrestler fought against and/or defeated, and I listed a shit ton of skill feats said wrestler has done or scales to.

 

[Pikaman]

The rest of it is saying X defeated Y without going into their techniques, the details of each fight, and why they won, which is why I said there probably needs to be a blog for skill of WWE

I mean most of the time it is brought up how Y was considered the greatest z wrestler of all time, which is the definition of Peak Human Skill, does Mac scale to that in boxing, and is there evidence that he could adjust to wrestling quicker than Theory could adjust to boxing?

 

[DaReaperMan]

I mean most of the time it is brought up how Y was considered the greatest z wrestler of all time, which is the definition of Peak Human Skill, does Mac scale to that in boxing, and is there evidence that he could adjust to wrestling quicker than Theory could adjust to boxing?

Well let's see, Mac consistently beats those stronger than him, faster than him, and skilled boxers in their own rights, 9/10 being capable of beating every boxer before them, and Mr. Sandman is a world champion who beat literally everyone else of the competition besides Mac, and keep in mind, even an old boxer who's out of shape and such can apsolutely floor people stronger than them IRL, let alone boxers in their prime who can beat other boxers and rise to the top. Plus the fact Mr. Sandman has practically perfect boxing technique and such.

I mentioned who the wrestler fought against and/or defeated, and I listed a shit ton of skill feats said wrestler has done or scales to.

With what details of the fights, we need to know how they did it.

 

[Pikaman]

Match begins like around now right? Will keep tabs on it for sure, good luck, I’d much prefer Theory retains over Lashley getting another title.

Sigh

First Theory beats Bálor, and then he loses when I actually want him to retain, to Bobby Lashely, who does not need this at all, and he’ll probably lose it to someone like Lesnar who holds it for a year and then Reigns beats him at Wrestlemania or smth smth because WWE REALLY loves putting those two against each other even though the rivalry hit its expiration date years ago, the only connection they have now is that they’ve both been pushed too long.

 

[Pikaman]

With what details of the fights, we need to know how they did it.

Well I’m assuming by Pinfall or Submission lol

Well let's see, Mac consistently beats those stronger than him, faster than him, and skilled boxers in their own rights, 9/10 being capable of beating every boxer before them, and Mr. Sandman is a world champion who beat literally everyone else of the competition besides Mac, and keep in mind, even an old boxer who's out of shape and such can apsolutely floor people stronger than them IRL, let alone boxers in their prime who can beat other boxers and rise to the top. Plus the fact Mr. Sandman has practically perfect boxing technique and such.

Would you say Mac is the greatest boxer of all time measuring by skill alone? If not, he is at best even to Theory

 

[DaReaperMan]

Would you say Mac is the greatest boxer of all time measuring by skill alone? If not, he is at best even to Theory

I would, I doubt there's another boxer who can face those odds and overcome them will skill and effort alone at the ripe age of 17.

 

[Pikaman]

I would, I doubt there's another boxer who can face those odds and overcome them will skill and effort alone at the ripe age of 17.

“At the age of” I’m talking about NOW. Is Little Mac, come the end of Punch Out!! Wii, already definitively the greatest boxer to ever live irrespective of his age?

it should also be noted boxing does not have the offensive varieties Wrestling has, so Theory gains a slight leeway in the skill debate there as Little Mac will likely have a tougher time of it adjusting.

 

[DaReaperMan]

“At the age of” I’m talking about NOW. Is Little Mac, come the end of Punch Out!! Wii, already definitively the greatest boxer to ever live irrespective of his age?

it should also be noted boxing does not have the offensive varieties Wrestling has, so Theory gains a slight leeway in the skill debate there as Little Mac will likely have a tougher time of it adjusting.

Yes.

Also being the greatest don't mean shit if you get ******* folded like right after the statement is made

 

[Pikaman]

Sigh

First Theory beats Bálor, and then he loses when I actually want him to retain, to Bobby Lashely, who does not need this at all, and he’ll probably lose it to someone like Lesnar who holds it for a year and then Reigns beats him at Wrestlemania or smth smth because WWE REALLY loves putting those two against each other even though the rivalry hit its expiration date years ago, the only connection they have now is that they’ve both been pushed too long.

Hopefully Theory has a rematch clause and he rips it straight out of Lashley’s hands come next PPV

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Well let's see, Mac consistently beats those stronger than him, faster than him, and skilled boxers in their own rights, 9/10 being capable of beating every boxer before them, and Mr. Sandman is a world champion who beat literally everyone else of the competition besides Mac, and keep in mind, even an old boxer who's out of shape and such can apsolutely floor people stronger than them IRL, let alone boxers in their prime who can beat other boxers and rise to the top. Plus the fact Mr. Sandman has practically perfect boxing technique and such.

Most WWE wrestlers have these same disadvantages in a fight. Speed, LS, AP, Skill, you name it. Theory has defeated people who are faster, more skilled/experienced, and he's about to face someone tonight who has higher LS than him.

Also, a wrestler would defeat a boxer more times than not IRL. It's a proven fact. A wrestler just has more versatile offense than a boxer, whose whole entire shtick is dodge and punch, which brings me to my next point.

Theory has a far more versatile move set than Yu. Here's his entire move set. Keep in mind that it's game over if Theory hits either his Ataxia, ATL, or A-Town Down, which are KO moves.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Same thing if Mac hits a Star Uppercut at the right time, and Mac has adapted to Aran Ryan literally cheating over 20 ******* fallacies including the use of a ******* flail pretty much instantly. And to King Hippo using body armor.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Hopefully Theory has a rematch clause and he rips it straight out of Lashley’s hands come next PPV

Nah. I think they're going to let Theory retain it. WWE is really, really is putting their all on this kid lol. Lashley will have another moment some time soon. Right now, it's Theory's time to shine.

Though, I think Theory is going to retain it through heel shenanigans to protect Lashley. Mabe they'll have a rematch on RAW or something like that.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Same thing if Mac hits a Star Uppercut at the right time, and Mac has adapted to Aran Ryan literally cheating over 20 ******* fallacies including the use of a ******* flail pretty much instantly. And to King Hippo using body armor.

Fair point.

So both have moves that can end the fight if hit.

Interesting...

 

[DaReaperMan]

Honestly I think I'm inclined to vote incon, Mac can get his one-punch off more often than Theory his finishers but Theory has more versatility.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Mac can get his one-punch off more often than Theory his finishers

Doubt it.

Honestly I think I'm inclined to vote incon, Mac can get his one-punch off more often than Theory his finishers but Theory has more versatility.

There's more to this matchup than just skill and techniques (i.e. Theory's very noticeable LS advantage), but I agree with this overall.

Incon FRA

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Hey @DaReaperMan guess what?

This might actually be our first ever versus debate that actually went well!

Let's give ourselves a pat on the back.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Doubt it.

I mean Mac has conditions to getting stars to do star Uppercuts but I'm inclined to call those game mechanics cause they're different for every fighter

 

[DaReaperMan]

Hey @DaReaperMan guess what?

This might actually be our first ever versus debate that actually went well!

Let's give ourselves a pat on the back.

I mean the last ones had you in denial so that's not an accomplishment, it's just you git gud at debating reasonably

 

[Pikaman]

Theory’s LS advantage only comes into play for a submission, where it’s a case of an instant win that isn’t particularly in character.

But yes, Mac has reliability of win-cons, while Theory has versatility of them, so I’ll vote incon too FRA

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I mean the last ones had you in denial so that's not an accomplishment, it's just you git gud at debating reasonably

Agree to disagree. Besides, you are known to be quite annoying for other debaters, so I don't think I'm the only one in the wrong here.