Asriel Dreemurr vs Prime Bolas

[Macosten]

We know Frisk had a physical form because Frisk could still move their soul while the game was stating that they couldn't move their body. Existing in a physical form beyond the multiverse is something Bolas was never capable of.

That's not entirely accurate, as Bolas simply chose to abandon his (broken) body before pursuing Tetsuo, which was a mistake that led to his downfall:
The dragon had abandoned his body, unaware of the trap, and followed Tetsuo to the Meditation Plane, where he was killed by Umezawa in this weakened state.

^Keeping in mind that Tetsuo, as Bolas' champion, had an intimate understanding of Bolas' nature and tactics, and so planned accordingly. Asriel does not possess this knowledge.

Keep in mind, too, that even after this, Bolas eventually came back to life. (Thus, Prime Bolas does have a Regenerationn feat.)

[Keep in mind that "keep in mind" is something I overuse ]

Also, "that gem" keeps getting thrown around. Are we talking about the Gem of Becoming that Bolas has between his horns? Because I'm not sure how Asriel is going to go about destroying it behind his back.

 

[Northern_Wind00]

That's not entirely accurate, as Bolas simply chose to abandon his (broken) body before pursuing Tetsuo, which was a mistake that led to his downfall:

The dragon had abandoned his body, unaware of the trap, and followed Tetsuo to the Meditation Plane, where he was killed by Umezawa in this weakened state.

^Keeping in mind that Tetsuo, as Bolas' champion, had an intimate understanding of Bolas' nature and tactics, and so planned accordingly. Asriel does not possess this knowledge.

I'm not referring to the meditation plane with Tetsuo. I'm referring to the place he retreated to during the madaran rift.

Bolas said that he created a place where to go in case of the Multiverse collapses. He left there after closing the Madaran rift. This place thus must have been outside the multiverse, and therefore, he would not be there when the Mending happened.

To go to this place he was forced to abandon his unbroken body, and when he returned to it he becane neowalker Bolas due to the change in the multiverse. Existing ourside of the multiverse, in magic lore, requires Bolas to shed his body. That's just a fact.

 

[Macosten]

That's not entirely accurate, as Bolas simply chose to abandon his (broken) body before pursuing Tetsuo, which was a mistake that led to his downfall:

The dragon had abandoned his body, unaware of the trap, and followed Tetsuo to the Meditation Plane, where he was killed by Umezawa in this weakened state.

^Keeping in mind that Tetsuo, as Bolas' champion, had an intimate understanding of Bolas' nature and tactics, and so planned accordingly. Asriel does not possess this knowledge.

I'm not referring to the meditation plane with Tetsuo. I'm referring to the place he retreated to during the madaran rift.
Bolas said that he created a place where to go in case of the Multiverse collapses. He left there after closing the Madaran rift. This place thus must have been outside the multiverse, and therefore, he would not be there when the Mending happened.

To go to this place he was forced to abandon his unbroken body, and when he returned to it he becane neowalker Bolas due to the change in the multiverse. Existing ourside of the multiverse, in magic lore, requires Bolas to shed his body. That's just a fact.

... But that doesn't mean that Bolas dies OR that Asriel can defeat him in such a form. If Bolas sheds his body then he just becomes some sort of abstract/energy being, not far removed from Yawgmoth, no?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Bolas wins if he's willing to pay several thousand dollars to buy some copies of Black Lotus and hardcast himself on turn one.

Okay, lame card game jokes aside, I'm still personally leaning towards inconclusive.

 

[Macosten]

Bolas wins if he's willing to pay several thousand dollars to buy some copies of Black Lotus and hardcast himself on turn one.
Okay, lame card game jokes aside, I'm still personally leaning towards inconclusive.

That's the vibe I'm getting from this thread

Too many unknowns, and I think it really just boils down to Asriel's mental integrity (thus his resistance to Bolas's Touch).


Also, yeah. Bolas uses 3 Black Lotus, Hardcasts himself, then uses his -2 on Asriel, taking control of him. Duh.

 

[ConsumingFire]

Alright so, after a week's worth of debate, it's a 4 - 5 vote with 1 tie/inconclusive, which is extremely close. Anyone in favor of just calling this match Inconclusive for both characters due to the amount of unknown factors?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Alright so, after a week's worth of debate, it's a 4 - 5 vote with 1 tie/inconclusive, which is extremely close. Anyone in favor of just calling this match Inconclusive for both characters due to the amount of unknown factors?

Honestly this seems like the best route, to me.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Really? Isn't Bolas like 1 vote above Asriel here? I don't mind inconclusive but still....

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Really? Isn't Bolas like 1 vote above Asriel here? I don't mind inconclusive but still....

I mean, technically my inconclusive vote was initially slightly in favor of Asriel, but I feel inconclusive is more likely.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Really? Isn't Bolas like 1 vote above Asriel here? I don't mind inconclusive but still....

I mean, technically my inconclusive vote was initially slightly in favor of Asriel, but I feel inconclusive is more likely.

Got'cha.

 

[The_Everlasting]

I mean, more people are voting for Bolas. Whether or not this fight is really inconclusive is not my business, but more people are favoring Bolas.

 

[Macosten]

I mean, more people are voting for Bolas. Whether or not this fight is really inconclusive is not my business, but more people are favoring Bolas.

1 is not much of a margin, imo.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Asriel: Saikou, Northern, Blahblah, Kenneth, Me (Maybe?)

Bolas: Aparajita, Wolfe, Everlasting, Shiny, Maco (Maybe?)

Fully inconclusive: Alice

This seems more inconclusive to me, especially since me (and I think Maco, though I don't want to speak for him) were shifting to the inconclusive position.

 

[Macosten]

Yeh. We've got 4.5 point for each side and 2 point for neither. Seems like nobody wins.

 

[ConsumingFire]

Yeh. We've got 4.5 point for each side and 2 point for neither. Seems like nobody wins.

So you're voting Inconclusive? I just want to be sure before changing the voting numbers.

EDIT: I am also shifting to Inconclusive.

 

[Macosten]

I'm shifting to whatever makes the end result inconclusive

 

[ConsumingFire]

I'm shifting to whatever makes the end result inconclusive

I'll take that as a 'yes'.

EDIT: nvm, I see what you did there.

 

[Wolfe1235]

I can agree with inconclusive.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I have added the match.

 

[Northern_Wind00]

I have added the match.

Could you please specify Oldwalker Bolas there?

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

This was an amazing match! Another inconclusive for Asriel.. Is Asriel's battle with U.Madoka listed as inconclusive?

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

Oh and to avoid confusion, I am also shifting to inconclusive. Not that it matters now though.

 

[Cropfist]

Nicol. He has far more experience and hax.

 

[Inertio]

I say Asriel with the Hyper Goner & Angel of Death

 

[Fllflourine]

This was an amazing match! Another inconclusive for Asriel.. Is Asriel's battle with U.Madoka listed as inconclusive?

No, but he'd likely win given Madokas new weakness

Also, this threads already resolved with inconclusive. @Crop and @Inertio

 

[HaveSomeBlade]

If Asriel can use SAVE/LOAD, my vote is for him.

No matter how many times Bolas manage to win this via his bullshit-level of intelligence, Asriel would return with a counter measure for that and would eventually outplay Bolas after some resets.

Also "At least 2-A > 2-A".

Asriel is probably stronger than Bolas in both, power and hax. The latter's most powerful weapon here is his intelligence/experience, which would become less effective after every reset once Asriel is learning about his foes' power, hax, attacks and patterns.

Some guy wrote about Asriel not being able to bypass Bolas' regen.

That is certainly irrelevant. Being who they are, I'm pretty sure both would be able to one-shot each other. The real deal is: If Bolas can kill Asriel, he will just come back with more knowledge of his enemy. Now if Asriel kills Bolas once, it's over.


If Asriel can't use SAVE/LOAD, my vote is for Bolas.

 

[ConsumingFire]

Seeing as this thread is almost a year old and has already been concluded, I request that an admin or mod please close it.

 

[HaveSomeBlade]

Seeing as this thread is almost a year old and has already been concluded, I request that an admin or mod please close it.

I thought it was still open due to the inconclusive victory.

That's why I voted.