Ashi and Jack Possible upgrades

[Buttersamuri]

Ok. So I bring in a few things I question for Jack and Ashi. I'll do it by a list, to make it more organized

1. Ashi Scaling to Akus MFTL speed, We know Aku has to be a degree of MFTL+ as both he and his minions have taken over different parts of the Galaxy and apparent different galaxies as a whole (as stated by creatures who claim to be from different galaxies that Aku took over.) as well. We even seen a MFTL feat he had the the form of flying out of the Milky Way. Since Ashi is a special case of essentially being Aku. Shouldn't she be able to move and scale to similar speeds. She is a special case after all. It seemed she should, especially since once she mastered her abilities, she could match Aku and had his same powers and AP. So I would say her speed scaling (for travel) would make sense to give to her. (I seriously doubt Jack would get the scaling, since he doesn't have that special case. Granted, he had dodged Aku charging at him a lot. So I don't know. I'm iffy there)

2. Oh boy. Here's the big one. Jack scaling to Aku. I already here people cry "he doesn't scale as his sword is designed to hurt Aku, meaning that his Power shouldn't scale. It's the sword," But a few things I see with this. One, jack has fought evenly with Aku without his sword before in the episode. Matching him in some blow for blow sword attacks, blocking attacks, and getting hit and getting back up. Shown at these markers

1:59 to 2:14 he matches Blow for blow with Aku when wielding another sword

2:22 to 2:26 He blocks several hits from Aku

3:05 to 3:09 he blocks several more direct attacks from both ends from aku

0:28 to 0:32 he blocks a blow and tanks a direct hit from Aku

1:02 to 1:08 few more blocking

2:39 to 2:42 He literally rolls away with enough physical force to break Akus Grip

Two, Jacks sword may take the fact he can hurt Aku as just being its specific counter. That doesn't necessarily mean that he couldn't scale strength wise. There are many times where jack has had to block blows with the sword. And while the sword wouldn't break by akus attacks. Jack would still feel the force behind the blow itself and still need to be some degree of strong to be able to even hold the thing and block with. Like, if you hand that sword to dan Hibiki, Aku fires a blast at the sword while he holds it. Dan ain't surviving the blocking force on that. As well, brought up in my earlier paragraph. Jack did fight Aku without his sword, using common ware he found in the graveyard and still was strong enough to match and block his blows.

Three, This also becomes more consistent as doing it with Ashi As well.

Four, we also see here, him able to physically push back and fight Akus black magic whatever it would be called. at 3:07

Five, Some of the other characters actually did hurt aku to a degree. Like with the Scottsmans daughters. They damaged and pierced through Aku (the mini Akus. But still damaging him none the less) Shown here at 1:09

Six, Jack fought with The elements of the earth. Fire, Wind, and earth. Creatures able to harm and keep Aku away. And jack was able to combat and beat them. Yes. To finish them he used their own attacks against them. But he managed to deflect attacks, tank a hit, and could physically hold against the tornado formed that was strong enough to suck in both other gods when the element of winds turned into a tornado. And unlike Aku. You can't use the argument that his sword counters or "can't harm good", as it doesn't in this case. Neither side was evil, and neither would be countered by the swords properties. So it came down to if jack could swing hard enough. Which he did to knock some attacks back. And tank a couple hits. Giving much more than Jack has scaling to people who can hurt Aku physically. (he does the usual. Tanks hits, hits attacks back, ect) [Any real damage started at 17:40 but continue on till the end. I would rather not marker ever single time he gets hit or blocks a blow. You get the idea. He can tank and give hits

So there's my argument. Ashi scaling to Akus MFTL speeds, and Jack scaling to Akus country stuff.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

You can use the Samurai Jack (Verse) page to find members to ask to comment here.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Neutral about Ashi scaling to Aku's speed, but Jack shouldn't scale to Aku's AP.

In the graveyard fight the only reason they were "trading blows" was because Aku was playing with him in, because he wanted to finish him off with his own sword.

And I wouldn't call this fighting back, more so just barely surviving, not to mention Aku was fighting at the moment and was distracted.

And I'm pretty sure the elements don't scale to Aku, and even if they did, Jack didn't do anything that would make him scale directly to them.

 

[Dark649]

Aku's MFTL+ is travel speed only, which only Aku has shown and as such it cannot be powerscaled to other characters sans maybe only Ashi.

I also disagree to scale to Jack, which would scale to all the other char. to Aku for many oblivious reasons.

 

[Antvasima]

Dark649 is probably correct.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Nothing proves he was playing with him. And Aku already had his sword, and it was quite clear he was trying to kill him. There is 0 evidence to suggest he was toying with jack. It's more reasonable to say he wasn't trying to hold back considering he finally had the opportunity to kill jack. He wouldn't waste it. There isn't even dialogue to suggest that he was holding back. Had he been spurting out cocky words, then it could be more questionable. But in the fight, Aku was quite clearly just trying to kill jack. It even is again backed up when jack literally rips free from sky's grip without his sword. He does it jut through strength.

He still was managing to fight it back. Maybe not fully yes, but it was clear he could still fight back to some degree.

And the elements to scale to Aku. It is showed them injuring Aku and keeping him away from the Gem he was trying to get. And yes Jack does do stuff to scale to the elements. Taking blows from both the fire and wind creature. Hitting some of the fire creatures attack back at them. And when the tornado element turned into a massive tornado that was strong enough to suck up the other elements, jack was still able to physically hold away from the pull.


Well. That's why I brought it up for Ashi. I said that I highly doubt that jack scaled. But since Ashi is a special case, she should possibly scale. And I'm aware its travel speed. But none the less. I brought it up as I think it is worth bringing up.

 

[Ogbunabali]

The whole fight is actually him toying with Jack so that he can stab him with his own sword.

And like I said before. Even if the elements scale to Aku, Jack did nothing in the fight that warrant him directly scaling to them.

 

[Buttersamuri]

The whole fight is actually him toying with Jack so that he can stab him with his own sword.

And like I said before. Even if the elements scale to Aku, Jack did nothing in the fight that warrant him directly scaling to them.

No, there is 0 reason to believe that. He didn't want to stab jack with his own sword. He just wanted to kill jack. He just managed to finally hold jack down at the end to try and stab him. He didn't want to directly just kill jack by stabbing him with his own sword, or else he wouldn't have tried to kill jack multiple different times in the fight.

And yes he did. He quite literally tanks hits from them and hits their attacks away. And physically could hold against winds that overpowered the elements. That's plenty of reason to scale.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Right.

If by "tanking" you mean him flying when he got hit by one attack. The only other thing is him deflecting like 2-3 attacks with his magical sword. Yeah, no, he doesn't scale from that.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Right.

If by "tanking" you mean him flying when he got hit by one attack. The only other thing is him deflecting like 2-3 attacks with his magical sword. Yeah, no, he doesn't scale from that.

Yes right. He still got hit. It doesn't matter if it sent him flying.

Someone gets punched by Goku and they are sent flying, they still took a hit from him.

And his magical sword is irrelevant to it. This isn't Akus case where the sword counters. He physically could hit the attacks away. That would give scaling. Since it requires physical force to hit the attacks away.

 

[Ogbunabali]

The magical sword is it's own thing it's not only good vs Aku, and him flying and not dying is an outlier if the elements scale to Aku.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Jack barely surviving encounters with Aku is no grounds for scaling.

A character can be shown to be leaps and bounds above another without instantly vaporizing them with an attack (although Aku literally just does this with Scaramouche, who scales to Jack). There needs to be something showing that they're honestly at the same level for them to scale.

And I don't see any of that in the links given in the OP.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Dargoo and Ogbunabali make sense.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Jack barely surviving encounters with Aku is no grounds for scaling.

A character can be shown to be leaps and bounds above another without instantly vaporizing them with an attack (although Aku literally just does this with Scaramouche, who scales to Jack). There needs to be something showing that they're honestly at the same level for them to scale.

And I don't see any of that in the links given in the OP.

If he takes hits Which he did Could match some blows physically Which he did Could block incoming attacks Which he did And could break from akus grip on him Which he did

Then scaling is fair game. Even if he would have been killed. He only couldn't beat Aku because he didn't have the magic to seal Aku which is in the magic sword. Akus special case in durability is what saves him from Aku. As it's clear in sword fight without a limit, jack is much superior. Realistically. He could not be just at the building area when he had combated Country levels more than once. Taking hits, matching blows, hitting away attacks. He has plenty of reason to scale. And he isn't doing it to Aku alone. He took hits from other country characters and hit their blows away. He may be weaker than Aku physically. Which would make sense. But by no means could he not be in the same general area considering what he has had to do.


Adding on. Scaramouche Got one shot by jack too. The robot really only fought so well cause he used magic and specialized weaponeds like his vibrating sword. Once he was disarmed. He knew he was screwed. So Aku one shoting him is irrelevant to this case.

 

[Dark649]

The Guardian, who defeated Jack was likely easily killed by Aku since it was said that he destroyed most of the portals.

 

[Buttersamuri]

We have 0 knowledge on how that fight went if it happened. Aku could have won purely through his Regen making him impossible for The Guardin to kill. He doesn't have the sword. His minions could have also been there and overwhelmed him.

Heck. He could have escaped for all we know. We just saw his glasses broken. that's a Highly Questionable way to counter the solid feats jacks has

 

[Ogbunabali]

Jack doesn't have solid feats. He has one very questionable one.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Jack doesn't have solid feats. He has one very questionable one.

He doesn't have one questionable one. He has more than one. and they are very straight foward.

Fighting Aku without his sword

Fighting the elements

Tanking hits from both of them. Hitting their attacks away and matching their attacks.

 

[Ogbunabali]

The only one he has is being thrown against a wall from an elemental, that's it. That's not enough to bump him to Aku's level.

 

[Buttersamuri]

The only one he has is being thrown against a wall from an elemental, that's it. That's not enough to bump him to Aku's level.

No, you are missing several parts. he got smacked by the wind element. The fire element hit jack with a blast and he was fine And hit Multiple attacks away afterwards And managed to hold himself away from the tornado that was strong enough to overpowered the elements

He had a direct slice for slice, hit for hit combat with Aku. He blocked several of his blows. Got smacked by Aku directly. And broke from his grip.

 

[Ogbunabali]

The fight starts. Frist hit, he is sent flying. Deflects 5 fire balls with his magical sword, and the one he fails to block burns his hand. Fight ends.

The only thing of note is the first hit, which he survived. And that would be an outlier or PIS if they scale directly to Aku.

 

[Buttersamuri]

The fight starts. Frist hit, he is sent flying. Deflects 5 fire balls with his magical sword, and the one he fails to block burns his hand. Fight ends.

The only thing of note is the first hit, which he survived. And that would be an outlier or PIS if they scale directly to Aku.

No it wouldn't be. They were made there literally to keep Aku away. That was their literal purpose. And they were made by a being Who also beat Aku. So they very much do scale to Aku So the fact jack could smack blows away Survive an attack from Fire and wind And helps himself away from the tornado overpowering the elements. He does scale

Which is further backed up inhis fifht with Aku.

 

[Ogbunabali]

I already explained why the Aku fight shouldn't be used to scale.

 

[Ogbunabali]

So the fact jack could smack blows away Survive an attack from Fire and wind.

And this is a blatant lie.

 

[Buttersamuri]

I already explained why the Aku fight shouldn't be used to scale.

His fight should be used. He does directly fight with him He doesn't use his sword which takes hat argument away. And this plus the element fight, plus being able to handle Amy's attacks across the series in the first place, makes it more consistent.

And again. No. He was not toying with Jack. That is Baseless statement. There was 0 evidence to suggest that. Aku wanted Jack dead. He wouldn't have held back or toyed with Jack at all.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Right.

 

[Buttersamuri]

And this is a blatant lie.

No it isn't. A blast hit jacks hand. He he got smacked by the wind creature. He took hits from both of them and survived. That's not a lie. That's a fact.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

If he takes hits Which he did Could match some blows physically Which he did Could block incoming attacks Which he did And could break from akus grip on him Which he did

He barely survives the encounter. It isn't played by any stretch of the imagination with Aku and Jack on an even playing ground. Most the blocks are towards a sword that couldn't harm him when it hit his skin directly so you can shave about half of that, and chalk up the rest up to PIS.

If you're trying to pass off that Jack is somehow comparable to Aku, he couldn't even move while being held by him, and him "rolling out" of this grip is him taking advantage of Aku's shock, not any feat of his own strength. I'm pretty sure if he could have rolled out of that grip at any moment he would have done so while he was afraid of being killed.

Adding on. Scaramouche Got one shot by jack too. The robot really only fought so well cause he used magic and specialized weaponeds like his vibrating sword. Once he was disarmed. He knew he was screwed. So Aku one shoting him is irrelevant to this case.

Ignores the entire fight prior to that, and how Jack only achieved this only through backfiring Scaramouche's weapons on him. So yes, Aku vaping him with a glance is rather relevant. Scaramouche actually happens to match Jack blow for blow and directly harms him too.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Dargoo, Ogbunabali, and Dark649. Perhaps we should close this thread?