Ashen One (Dark Souls) vs Kyuss, the Worm that Walks (Dungeons and Dragons)

[Mr. Bambu]

Added a good 12-13 D&D pages today and this one is a good match for Ashen One, I figure- plus it looks like a boss ripped straight from Soulsborne (or it would if it wasn't invented about a decade prior).

Speed is equalized, fight takes place in Helm's Deep but can go anywhere in Middle Earth. Ashen One has all equipment needed within the fortress and a bonfire is present both by the gate of the city and in the citadel. 6-B keys used (Kyuss is >baseline upscaling from Father Llymic, Ashen One is 8.092 Teratons of TNT scaling to The Nameless King). For all intents and purposes Ashen is assumed to have fought Champion Gundyr, and thus has the Sword Fragment to allow infinite Homeward Bones.

Good luck and god speed, debaters.

Ashen One:

Kyuss, the Worm that Walks: 1 (Schnee One)

Inconclusive: 7 (Keeweed, SinsOfMan, SheevShezarrine, Steven Pogi Paitao, XSOULOFCINDERX, DarkGrath, ApiesDeathByLazors)

 

[QrowBarr]

How does Kyuss' Fear, BFR, Damage Reduc, Matter, Sleep manip and paralysis inducement work?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Fear: Leaves targets panicked and paralyzed with fear on sight.

BFR: Can lock people in a self-created pocket realm, but not permanently, requires concentration and can't be held up long. Like it lasts so little time that it is measured in rounds (six seconds). It is a potential of respite, not a win condition.

Damage Reduction: Self explanatory, passively reduces damage of each hit.

Matter: Disintegrates people with spells.

Sleep: Puts people to sleep. Not long enough to win-con with that alone.

Paralysis: Ditto. Lasts for a fair amount of time, holds the target in place, but not long enough to incur victory.

 

[Schnee_One]

Ashen looks at him

Gets paralyzed with fear

And Kyuss eventually BFRs while Asher's only win con is beating him to death with attacks that get passively reduced

Voting Kyuss

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Fear can be overcome by something like, say

Not looking

As in when the initial fear is overcome, looking away.

It makes the match fairly more difficult to be sure.

 

[Schnee_One]

I assumed that "Leaves Target Paralysed with fear on sight" was instantaneous.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

It was. It is not, however, permanent.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Specifically, allow me to tell you the issue.

Kyuss instantly paralyzes Ashen One with fear, that works so far. Then Kyuss proceeds to kill Ashen, likely via blood rip or just smashing him to very tiny pieces. Kyuss BFRing isn't a likely move for a thing that really just wants to kill everything. It is possible, it isn't likely.

Ashen then respawns with lolmidgodlyequivalentType4, now knowing that Kyuss scares the ever living shit out of him.

 

[Schnee_One]

That makes more sense.

I still say Kyuss should take the win though, after Ashen looks at him and gets destroyed the first round, Kyuss will be aware of his respawning mechanic and will try to keep him away instead of killing him, Sleep+BFR or just BFR in general, combined with the fact that Ashen not being able to fight using his eyesight is a major detriment.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

That's also possible. But, keep in mind, there are tons of explanations for that in Kyuss' place. Methods for returning, especially ones for undead, are fairly numerous. But your vote is added.

 

[Schnee_One]

That makes it even better for him no? It makes him more aware of his coming back.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Noooot quite. It's more that he may reach different conclusions than "spontaneously respawns at these arbitrary bonfires". For example, a lich reforms near its phylactery several hours/days (depending on the Lich) after its death. A vampire turns to mist and remains in a coffin for a few hours and builds its body back. So on and so forth. But your vote is valid enough.

 

[Keeweed]

Could the Ashen One Homeworld bone back from bfr? Ignoring bfr; The Ashen seems to get destroyed every time he gets close because sleep and paralysis can be spammed by Kyuss.

I'm leaning to Kyuss because Ashen One gets instantly incapacitated by like 6 separate means every time he gets close but I guess it depends on if Kyuss can keep him BFR'd.

Edit: may test this later but I'm pretty sure you can Homeworld back to the starting bonefire in dark souls 1 after it was destroyed (or stopped working as the fire keeper died) so I think he maybe able to come back even if the bonefire is removed.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Theoretically yes. Unlike abilities like Maze, to my knowledge Kyuss' ability doesn't Seal. Keep in mind Ashen One has a finite number of Homeward Bones. I'll add the vote.

 

[Keeweed]

Actually they're is a miracle Homeworld spell (and the broken sword Homeworld bone has infinite uses) that'll resist every time the Ashen One dies and the dark sign can also teleport you back to the bonefire you just lose souls; I'll see if you can Homeworld bone to destroyed bonefires when I get home today, so my vote may change (probably to inconclusive if you can teleport to down bonefires).

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Both fair points, I've also given Ashen One a Coiled Straight Sword Fragment so he can infinitely Homeward Bone.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Alright, so it sounds like Ashen One needs to destroy every single worm to kill Kyuss, but what exactly is Kyuss' wincon? Also this is where my procrastination bite's me on the ass cause Ashen One should resist (somewhat) blood manip.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'm betting you a lot of money he doesn't resist enough.

Kyuss' wincon currently is apparently just consistently BFRing Ashen One and destroying bonfires. And yes, Ashen One would need to kill every single worm in one day to kill Kyuss, otherwise all of the others will fully regenerate by the end of the day.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Ashen One summons my PC and we have a jolly time killing worms.

Also I'm level 260 so good luck trying to kill me nerd.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

and then he gave the real answer

 

[Mr. Bambu]

15 hour bump

 

[SinsofMan]

Kyuss FRA. (I think, Idk his character too say but it seems more likely then Ashen winning.)

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Yeah, whatever. Kyuss FRA I guess.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Yeah, whatever. Kyuss FRA I guess.

I encourage you to give a debate? I'm not coercing you to just blindly vote Kyuss, I figured Ashen would win upon making this to be perfectly honest.

 

[Keeweed]

I wish I didn't have to work so much because then I could test if you could teleport to destroyed bonefires. I would vote inconclusive if you can do that because Kyuss won't really have a way to permanently keep the Ashen One away. (He still instantly destroys the Ashen One whenever they try getting close but at least they could keep coming back).

 

[Sir_Ovens]

You can teleport to destroyed bonfires but you can't teleport using them. Trust me, I tried.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

I encourage you to give a debate? I'm not coercing you to just blindly vote Kyuss, I figured Ashen would win upon making this to be perfectly honest.

Trust me, I'd love to, but I got a lot on my mind right now and I'm having trouble focusing on literally anything.

 

[SinsofMan]

I encourage you to give a debate? I'm not coercing you to just blindly vote Kyuss, I figured Ashen would win upon making this to be perfectly honest.

I too, am just real busy. I know alot about Ashen, and I think his general versatility, skill and immortality might provide him an edge. But it seems to be addressed above. Plus, my birthday is tomorrow. Spending the time on vs wiki for that seems a little bland, dont you agree? ; )

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Alright then, fair enough. I don't want you to feel like forced to just submit to Kyuss, like I said I honestly thought Ashen would take it.

 

[Keeweed]

You can teleport to destroyed bonfires but you can't teleport using them. Trust me, I tried.

Finally on break from my work.

If that's the case then I'll change my vote inconclusive as the Ashen One is incapacitated every time he gets close to Kyuss, but Kyuss can't keep him incapacitated or bfr'd long enough for it to be incap.

 

[SinsofMan]

Ehh, I voted Kyuss for Keeweeds reasons. If he votes inconclusive, I guess I will change mine to that too. Although unsure if his tether to the bonfire...really matters.

 

[00potato]

Bump

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Alright, I'm in a bit more of a debatey mood now, but I needs me sum learnin'. What is Kyuss' tactics? Fighting style, opening move, regular stratagies. Does he spam anything, or is the worm pretty liberal with it's abilities?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Fair enough. Kyuss' is fairly lenient with what he actually does in combat, but does regularly make use of his discorporation ability (that is, separating into hundreds of vermin to rest for 1d6 hours and reform fully).

His tactics section describes his step-by-step options in fighting a large group- that is, mindhax the strongest one to make it fight the rest of the group, then just spam every other raw melee ability or incap until he can Worm-Smite.

Worm-Smite, for reference, is an attack that covers the target in writhing worms that will just eat the target. While this is Kyuss' favorite ability to use, it won't really affect Ashen much.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Quick, and probably dumb, question, but how would Ashen's soul absorbtion work with the individual worms? Would he end up absorbing small bit's of Kyuss' soul with each killed worm or would nothing happen at all?

Also @Bambu any chance of Ashen One getting anything other then basic equipment for this fight?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Aside from DnD resisting via Soul Bind... for Kyuss, probably not. Kyuss isn't really within any of the worms that make him up, they're just sort of a vehicle for Kyuss' mind.

Ashen has access to everything as said in OP.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Ashen has access to everything as said in OP.

what was even the point of my revisions then?

So, I'm thinking I might change my vote to Ashen One. Either way this is gonna be a seriously drawn out battle with many "victories" for both characters but Kyuss' win-cons just seem more unlikely. He has to first recognize that this is the same knight attacking him again and again, then has to come to the conclusion that the burning sword in the ground is what AO's reviveing at (probably not that hard) then has to destroy both bonfires in the area, one of which is close by, the other which is a bit farther away. While all Ashen One needs to do is destroy every single worm that squiggles into view. AO has plenty of AOE fire spells that should work just fine.

Now Imma ask you a queston: Ashen One has just returned to Firelink with Kyuss' soul in hand and is about to transfuse it into a new weapon. What are his two options?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

so that I would have to specify

To be fair, an infinitely respawning creature isn't new to D&D. Especially not one that is ostensibly undead. Vampires and Liches both respawn in the same day. So recognizing the same dude attacking him over and over wouldn't be difficult with his intelligence.

Kyuss resists soul absorption and... frankly, no AoE covers wide enough of a range. Kyuss himself is 30 ft tall and the worms explode outwards from him. With even one surviving he'd reform.

Interesting question. One is definitely Kyuss' mace imbued with his own worms, weapon art puts those bleed maggots on enemies (you know, the ones from the Chapel area in DS3?)

The other is a bit more difficult. I'd suppose it would be a spell of some sort, given that Kyuss and his followers are all spellcasters. I suppose I like his spell that just eviscerates the enemy by literally ripping all of their blood out of them, so that's a good one. I've literally only seen it on Kyuss. I envision it in Dark Souls as a projectile that explodes upon hitting, inflicting instant bleed on anyone within a short range.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Fair enough, I guess that's a point in Kyuss' corner. I don't think I mentioned soul absorbtion in that comment? The fire pillar spell that spawns lava as a pretty large AOE IIRC. I'm kinda less sure now though. Maybe I'll sleep on it.

Big **** off maggot mace sounds pretty cool, kinda like Vordt's only with maggots instead of Ice? And a massive blood explosion spell? I dig it. Very Bloodborne.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

The soul absorption thing was me reading ahead and being dumb, apologies. And fair enough.

Yeah, I imagine it a lot like Vordt's but maybe a pit of slashing damage since sharp edges and whatnot, and with the worm weapon art. So yeah that's how I'd figure Kyuss' soul items. Seems fitting.