Are Telekinesis and Lifting Strenght inherently related?

[Vizer04]

Do we assume they are the same thing but with different applications?

For example: If a character can resist being manipulated by other character's TK, does he have Resistance to Telekinesis or does he have greater LS than the other character's TK?

Sorry if it's a bit confusing, i'm confused myself.

 

[Dienomite22]

TK is normally assumed to work on LS so he would have greater LS than the other's TK unless the TK can be resisted by unique means in the verse.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

TK is normally assumed to work on LS so he would have greater LS than the other's TK unless the TK can be resisted by unique means in the verse.

I've heard contradicting things in versus threads. I've seen people say you need resistance to TK to bypass it because TK cloaks your body and lifts you up directly, making LS irrelevant.

 

[KLOL506]

I've heard contradicting things in versus threads. I've seen people say you need resistance to TK to bypass it because TK cloaks your body and lifts you up directly, making LS irrelevant.

Well to make it irrelevant I've also heard that one must have flight for this to be a valid LS, but I don't really remember anymore.

 

[Dienomite22]

I've heard contradicting things in versus threads. I've seen people say you need resistance to TK to bypass it because TK cloaks your body and lifts you up directly, making LS irrelevant.

That doesn't make sense when you would still break out most if not all of the cloak by moving your arms or entire body. LS doesn't go away just because you're floating or cloaked.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

TK is just managing to apply force (Which is LS) or energy (Which is AP) directly to someone by using your mind's power. Sometimes your mind creates some form of invisible force, sometimes they just make things suffer the pressure/energy out of nowhere.

Of course, there are some TK things that ignore durability, like crushing someone's heart with TK, but it is a case by case thing.

 

[Abstractions]

It doesn't matter how much LS you have if the TK can just lift you up and toss you around unless you have Flight to assist in anchoring yourself because the TK user doesn't need to do anything besides being able to lift your own body weight, you could bench press continents and they would still be able to fling you into orbit if that's what they plan to do.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

It doesn't matter how much LS you have if the TK can just lift you up and toss you around unless you have Flight to assist in anchoring yourself because the TK user doesn't need to do anything besides being able to lift your own body weight, you could bench press continents and they would still be able to fling you into orbit if that's what they plan to do.

I thought that we assumed that characters with a given LS can also anchor themselves to the ground with similar strength, at least they can try to, as it otherwise would make many LS feats completely moot.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

It doesn't matter how much LS you have if the TK can just lift you up and toss you around unless you have Flight to assist in anchoring yourself because the TK user doesn't need to do anything besides being able to lift your own body weight, you could bench press continents and they would still be able to fling you into orbit if that's what they plan to do.

Couldn't he exert his full strength downwards (similar to applying full body weight) to counter this? Tho I guess that's useless if you are already levitating, since then your own pressure can't be transferred properly

 

[Planck69]

I thought that we assumed that characters with a given LS can also anchor themselves to the ground with similar strength, at least they can try to, as it otherwise would make many LS feats completely moot.

I fail to see how they'd really feasibly do that when they could simply be lifted off of it. It's not as though they can just dig their feet in when the ground is as brittle and soft as it is.

And exerting their own weight downwards doesn't really work for similar reasons.

So unless they have flight or their own way to anchor themselves against mid-air movements, their lifting strength is irrelevant.

 

[Abstractions]

Couldn't he exert his full strength downwards (similar to applying full body weight) to counter this? Tho I guess that's useless if you are already levitating, since then your own pressure can't be transferred properly

I don't believe you could feasibly anchor yourself in a fashion that would just prevent someone from lifting you this way unless you had a means to actually tether yourself to the ground or had leverage to work with.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

I fail to see how they'd really feasibly do that when they could simply be lifted off of it. It's not as though they can just dig their feet in when the ground is as brittle and soft as it is.

That kind of argument doesn't resonate well with me, considering the standards of fiction. Characters being unable to anchor themselves because they would otherwise break the ground is to expect fiction would behave like real life in that kind of thing. It isn't that different from refuting that, say, a tier 5 weapon is tier 5 because a tier 9 who was hit with it superficially was merely cut, while if it was truly tier 5, said character should've been atomized. I am not saying that we shouldn't base things in reality, but refuting something in basis of real life not making it possible is something that needs to be made more carefully.

Fiction making characters having secondary necessary powers is even a recognized trope. In fact, LS implying anchorage is a constant theme in the page, just by looking at it.

Besides, again, if we do not imply anchorage in LS, then we need to make an urgent CRT to make a power for anchorage, and make a very in-deep analysis for each character.

Ofc, in this specific case, most cases that a telekine attempts to lift someone, said person would be caught unaware most of the time and thus lifted, unless they naturally went into fight with a firm stance that anchored them to the ground, but it sounds weird to me that a fictional character wouldn't be able to anchor themselves to the ground.

 

[Planck69]

We're not going to assume they anchor themselves unless it's shown or clearly implied that they do. Until they do so, we default to logic. Same with most any other ability.

 

[Abstractions]

Besides, again, if we do not imply anchorage in LS, then we need to make an urgent CRT to make a power for anchorage, and make a very in-deep analysis for each character.

If this is something you want to do, I won't stop you.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Okie-dokie, will do. I'll just need to spend a few days collecting the necessary evidence and stuff from various profiles that'd need to change, to serve as examples.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I don't believe you could feasibly anchor yourself in a fashion that would just prevent someone from lifting you this way unless you had a means to actually tether yourself to the ground or had leverage to work with.

Yeah, I agree. Realistically that would be impossible. But given fiction likes being quite fictitious, was more asking just in case.

 

[Abstractions]

Okie-dokie, will do. I'll just need to spend a few days collecting the necessary evidence and stuff from various profiles that'd need to change, to serve as examples.

I could give you RoboCop as an example of anchorage without flight assistance because he is able to bolt himself to the ground, if that helps speed along the process in a miniscule way for you.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

So TK does bypass LS in most cases?

 

[Vizer04]

So TK does bypass LS in most cases?

If they lift you from the ground, yes. Your LS doesn't mean anything if you're floating.

 

[Dienomite22]

I still don't understand how TK bypasses LS unless anchoring is involved. Someone with 4-A LS would logically break out an 8-A's telekinetic lift by simply moving their muscle slightly. Sure if the 4-A person is doing nothing and then the 8-A person can reasonably lift them without issues but the moment the 4-A LS person moves even slightly they would be out of it because at that point it would be like a resistance band for a human being used by an elephant, that elephant is gonna snap that resistance band instantly.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I still don't understand how TK bypasses LS unless anchoring is involved. Someone with 4-A LS would logically break out an 8-A's telekinetic lift by simply moving their muscle slightly. Sure if the 4-A person is doing nothing and then the 8-A person can reasonably lift them without issues but the moment the 4-A LS person moves even slightly they would be out of it because at that point it would be like a resistance band for a human being used by an elephant, that elephant is gonna snap that resistance band instantly.

Because telekinesis doesn't interact with the force they are able to exert, instead interacting with their body directly. If someone broke out of tk by flexing, that's a supernatural resistance to the power itself, since there is no logical way for them to interact with a (presumably) invisible and intangible force that's lifting them up. Nor can they transfer said force against the tk without some other means, unless you are suggesting that they could generate a counter force by contracting their muscles, which... Honestly I don't even know what to say at that point ovo

 

[Dienomite22]

Because telekinesis doesn't interact with the force they are able to exert, instead interacting with their body directly. If someone broke out of tk by flexing, that's a supernatural resistance to the power itself, since there is no logical way for them to interact with a (presumably) invisible and intangible force that's lifting them up. Nor can they transfer said force against the tk without some other means, unless you are suggesting that they could generate a counter force by contracting their muscles, which... Honestly I don't even know what to say at that point ovo

But most TK (supernatural or not) works based on the mass of the object being lifting i.e. struggle to TK lift a car but can easily TK lift people because the mass of a person is far less than the mass of a car. Most TK in fiction has a mass stipulation. TK itself may be intangible but the force it's enacting on its victim is physical, otherwise, it wouldn't do anything, so I don't see why someone with the proper lifting strength wouldn't be capable of counter-acting that force when they have dealt with a superior force.

This is topic is far too complicated for what it is.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

so I don't see why someone with the proper lifting strength wouldn't be capable of counter-acting that force when they have dealt with a superior force.

Because the "how" they are able to deal said force is important. TK straight up doesn't let you do that "how" (unless is extremely limited tk).

It's honestly really simple. It doesn't matter how much force you exert; if you can't apply it properly, it will never be transferred. Now dial that up to an effect against which you need either insane body control to properly counter or a supernatural means to.

It is completely and utterly physically impossible to apply force against TK from your body with just your muscles once it is applied on such away that it's stopping you from exerting it. There's no medium, no way of transferral, no nothing. You'd need a counter force with some other ability that let's you interact with it in a way that's away from your body. A good way, as others said above, is by flying or anchoring yourself to the ground before being levitated, as then the TK must go against that force and not simply the force of gravity acting over you.

 

[Dienomite22]

Because the "how" they are able to deal said force is important. TK straight up doesn't let you do that "how" (unless is extremely limited tk).

It's honestly really simple. It doesn't matter how much force you exert; if you can't apply it properly, it will never be transferred. Now dial that up to an effect against which you need either insane body control to properly counter or a supernatural means to.

It is completely and utterly physically impossible to apply force against TK from your body with just your muscles once it is applied on such away that it's stopping you from exerting it. There's no medium, no way of transferral, no nothing. You'd need a counter force with some other ability that let's you interact with it in a way that's away from your body. A good way, as others said above, is by flying or anchoring yourself to the ground before being levitated, as then the TK must go against that force and not simply the force of gravity acting over you.

I think I understand now. This applies to only levitating someone and not things like pushing and pulling right?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I think I understand now. This applies to only levitating someone and not things like pushing and pulling right?

That would be correct, as far as I understand.