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Archie Sonic vs The Archiver

ItsEliminationTime said:
@Fire
3 words: Wrong Acausal m8

Only type 2 or 4 saves you from Fate Manipulation. Type 5 is MUDA
Click to expand...
"Type 5 acausality is glorified invulnerability up to your dimensional level"

He was taken to type 5 as an upgrade. Because he's not in a different flow, but totally predates it. Type 5 >>>> Type 4. Which is why this is a stomp.
 
>Transcend the normal boundaries of cause and effect and exist outside the causality of a system

>No resistance to fate manip

Really now? Not everything needs to be spoonfeed, you know
 
ItsEliminationTime said:
@Fire
Nothing about Type 5 saying that they should gain resistance to Fate Manipulation
Click to expand...
They completely predate causality. Causality and Time are usually linked, or more specifically causality and the flow of time are usually linked. Which is why type 4 (which means existing in a different flow of causality) gives immunity to fate, precog, etc (assuming the opponent hasn't fate haxed type 4 acasuals before) because they are all linked to the flow of time.

Acausality type 5 is a complete transcendence of this law. He's not in a "different flow of causality" but he completely predated and/or created the causality and the flow of time. Which is why the page says "interacting with them can prove impossible".

@RKGeki that was a bit of a rude way to put it. But yeah @It'sEliminationTime, you understand now.
 
No need to throw that giant text in. Genki already explained and I said I knew it. Even if Sonic doesn't resist fatehax, but Sonic also has some stuffs that Archiver doesn't resist. Can Archiver fatehax fast enough?
 
I know of someone else who has Type 5 Acausality, didn't help him then.

How does Archiver's Fate Manipulation work? From me looking at the profile, Archiver doesn't even have a good means of incap due to a lot of it not being used offensively. That's probably his best option, and if he doesn't use it in-character/fast enough, Sonic proceeds to thoroughly eviscerate his concept.
 
Yea, I mean Sonic resist a lot of stuffs that he has here. Existence Erasure gets noped by Type 8, Sonic also has resistance to Soulhax, Mindhax, etc. Also how does Sonic's Holyhax work?

Right now, I'll go with Sonic until someone explains further about how Archiver's fatehax work
 
You know Sonic defeated a being with temporal omnipresence, right? And how does fatehax work?

Nothing implies this is a stomp when Sonic has stuffs that Archiver doesn't resist. Unless you want to argue about Archiver's fatehax being passive.
 
Ok not a stomp if that's what you want. The Archiver uses his temporal omnipresence and fate haxes his future from before Sonic was even born and can't do anything to stop his future getting changed in the presence or just possesses sonic.

Also The Archiver should be more than infintely stronger than baseline AP wise into 2-A. I asked some consultants they said it is quite plausable though they didn't know much on the verse to be sure of it.
 
@Fire You're gonna need a CRT for that second part. Not saying you're wrong, but you gotta have it on the profile.

Not like it would matter, because AP alone isn't getting past Type 8.
 
ShakeResounding said:
@Fire You're gonna need a CRT for that second part. Not saying you're wrong, but you gotta have it on the profile.
Not like it would matter, because AP alone isn't getting past Type 8.
Click to expand...
It is on the profiles. He is 2-A, though we just need to be clear on how high he is rn. The most plausable idea rn is him being higher than Infinity x Infinity.

Nah that AP level would mean Archiver does anything and breaks through Sanic's resistances.
 
ShakeResounding said:
I was talking about being infinitely above baseline, that's gonna need a CRT.
Click to expand...
I was talking about that aswell. His AP justification is on his profile, we just are not FULLY sure whether that means baseline or Infinity Factorial. A consultant did agree with infinity factorial though he said he would need to know the verse. So idk now.
 
wait what

AP =/= Bypassing Resistances

They aren't a higher dimension and that stuff like "The most plausable idea rn is him being higher than Infinity x Infinity" sounds pretty unsure.
 
Infinity above baseline [Insert hax] will break through baseline 2-A resistance to [insert hax]

Same as how tier 3 mind hax breaks through tier 8 resistance to it.
 
No it won't.

A 3-C who can mindhax a single person won't mindhax an 8-B who can resist millions of minds in mindhax. We don't scale hax to AP.

The exception is that higher dimensional stuff will bypass resistances. High 1-C hax would instantly work on lower dimensional characters.
 
No no. It's potency of the hax.

The archiver being more than infinity above baseline means his hax are all on that level, because he haxes a reality of that level. We don't mean their actual physical AP.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
No no. It's potency of the hax.
The archiver being more than infinity above baseline means his hax are all on that level, because he haxes a reality of that level. We don't mean their actual physical AP.
Click to expand...
We don't even measure hax like that so I'm genuinely confused on your point here. "Infinitely above baseline". What does that mean in a case like, say, Fate Hax? Law Hax? Explain.

Furthermore, no. In very few cases do we actually assume all of their hax scale equally. So even if they had this mythical "infinitely above baseline" thing you keep talking about for hax... have they shown it for all hax? Where does it come from, exactly?
 
Anyone can be biased towards something. Doesn't mean it's a bad thing. He's just arguing in a vs debate. No issue here.

As for his point, it depends on the hax, as some of them are directly related to the size of the cosmology they affect
 
Let's all keep to the discussion about Sonic and The Archive and not bring up others past.

So long as nobody's wanking beyond what the characters are capable of we should be good.
 
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