Archie revisions again: Mogul, Tails, Naugus, and Law Manipulation.

[The_real_cal_howard]

Lol what?

 

[Elizhaa]

Actually, that's the rule regarding type 1 abstracts.
If they can create avatars = that's Mid-Godly as they can keep pumping them out as long as their concept isn't affected.

If they don't = they don't get the Regenerationn.

Sound like Low-Godly
Low-Godly: The ability to regenerate from the complete physical destruction of your body, instead restoring it from your disembodied consciousness, whether that be your soul, mind, or something else.

It's not Low-Godly. Chaos Force beings are type 1 abstracts, being one with the Chaos Force concept. That's Mid-Godly.

being one with the Chaos Force concept. could be Type 2 Abstract Existence. Type 2 Abstract Existence is the only that stated Regenerationn to be honest

Type 2: Embodies an abstraction, and can be resurrected or regenerate indefinitely thanks to it. Destroying the abstraction is required to permanently kill those characters, but they can still be affected without directly altering it.

 

[Elizhaa]

Everything is fine except Mid-Godly to me, for now.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

They're not type 2. They're type 1.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

In the words of Matt, press F to doubt.

 

[Kaltias]

There's a reason we took law manipulation off of Arceus's page. In order to get the power, it has to be more akin to what Madoka does. Correct me if I'm wrong.

This is correct. For example, we don't give every PMMM witch law manipulation based on this:

"When we isolate it from the power that purifies and ascends magic girls, the power that you called 'laws of cycle' then what will happen to the soul gem? The resulting observation is indeed rather fascinating. An isolated dimension was formed with its own independent law that seeks to guide and capture victims from the outside... This match what you have previously explained, the power of a 'witch'. So long as you are protected by the isolation field, then you would not become a full 'witch'. Like a chick who grew up within its own shell. That is why you formed a labryinth within. It's quite shocking that it is fully capable of replicating and reproducing an entire city. This place we are at right now, is a world existing solely within your own soul gem."

"Altering laws" is heavily based on context, in some cases it can be a fancy way to talk about generic reality warping

 

[ShakeResounding]

But Eggman and Wily specifically state that they'd have limits if they tried to do it regularly, but the Super Genesis Wave would ignore that limitation.l and allow them to reshape their universe down to the tiniest details, not just correcting their worlds.

 

[Wokistan]

That's not really danmaku. Haven't really seen the other stuff yet though.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Big explosions aren't danmaku.

I also don't see Law Manipulation there, just reality warping.

Rest seems fine.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Law Manipulation comes from the third scan showing Eggman and Wily talking about the SGW, my most recent comment above explains why it can be Law Manip.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

I feel like that's not really Law Manipulation, but better Reality Warping.

 

[ShakeResounding]

It could be, yeah, but I dunno. They really did stress the fact that the SGW was amping what Eggman and Wily could regularly be able to do here.

I made a suggestion that we could do something like "Reality Warping (Can be used as Law Manipulation)" as it's a firm middle ground.

 

[MYHERO]

That's against the law here buddy.

 

[Antvasima]

So what is the conclusion here?

 

[MYHERO]

Everybody agrees with everything except, the law manipulation. The law one is pretty split.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Everything here seems to be accepted except for Regenerationn that was brought up a little later in the thread.

Law Manipulation is still being discussed.

 

[MYHERO]

Don't listen to Shake Ant, I'm far more trustworthy than him, I mean did you see how much edits I have? Like over a million dood.

 

[MYHERO]

But in all seriousness Shake has the right info here.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Everything here seems to be accepted except for Regenerationn that was brought up a little later in the thread.

Law Manipulation is still being discussed.

The regen thing seems to be causing confusion for some reason.

 

[MYHERO]

What's the reason?

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Go back to where I originally said that a type 1 abstract gets Mid-Godly if they are able to create avatars but if they don't create avatars, they don't get the Regenerationn.

 

[ShakeResounding]

@HERO Oh, I see how it is lol

@Shadow I'm persinally fine with Mid/Low-Godly (whichever we figure is best for the Avatars), but I guess that's up for further debate.

I'm still firmly sitting by Law Manipulation, and if I explain my reasoning over again, I'll just sound like a broken record at this point. I'm still fine with what I suggested on it, if not flat out Law Manip being listed.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

The thing is law manipulation is a more specific sub-power of reality warping, so to put it in Crimson's words, it is "better reality warping."

Though the Mid-Godly thing is minor. Whether or not they have it, it would still take type 2 conceptual manipulation to be able to affect them either way.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

In the end would law manip really matter that much? I mean it is just a subskill from reality warping.

It's more specific of the potency of the reality warping, as just listing reality warping by itself can be pretty vague.

 

[MYHERO]

I see...

 

[ShakeResounding]

Again, I suggest something like this.

"Reality Warping (Can be used as Law Manipulation)". Not only does this leave room for any other specific ability that can be listed under Reality Warping that's shown by the Super Forms, but also notes that it's capable of being used in those ways.

Thoughts?

 

[Elizhaa]

Again, I suggest something like this.
"Reality Warping (Can be used as Law Manipulation)". Not only does this leave room for any other specific ability that can be listed under Reality Warping that's shown by the Super Forms, but also notes that it's capable of being used in those ways.

Thoughts?

Doesn't really matter anyway since Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2) is better.

 

[MYHERO]

@Shake Seems pretty good to me. But I want to hear what Cal says.

 

[MYHERO]

Though it is gonna get really tricky in vs battle threads don't you think?

 

[MYHERO]

@Nedge Well we should still have it on his profile even if it's useful or not.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

The law manipulation is useful and definatly combat applicable

 

[MYHERO]

But wouldn't conceptual manip be enough?

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

But wouldn't conceptual manip be enough?

no more hax

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

It would, but we're kinda derailing here.

 

[MYHERO]

But wouldn't conceptual manip be enough?

no more hax

Huh? Could you elaborate on that?

 

[MYHERO]

@Shadow Sorry dude but I really need to know this. After this gets cleared up I will stop.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

All their powers should be listed,just having concept manipulation does not mean that law manipulation is redundant they are differant things with differant application.

 

[MYHERO]

@Nedge Well we should still have it on his profile even if it's useful or not.

@Setsuna I am very well aware of that. But what I'm trying to ask is what would law manip be able to do better than concept manip in certain areas? Because the way how Nedge says it, it just seems like a weaker version of concept manip.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

law manipulation and concept manipulation are sperate things.The law manipulation part is not a subset of the concept manipulation.The archie charecters concept manipulation is destroying concepts.Concept destruction does not get you law manipulation.

 

[MYHERO]

k I will let this one go. I don't know why Nedge would say that :/