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Arceus vs Shin Budokai Janemba

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@TheMightyRegulator

Wait,.... "Arceus has also created time and the Temporal Dimension, giving him two temporal dimensions which is the textbook definition of immeasurable speed."

Arceus is 3-D spatial and 2-D temporal equal a 5-D being?
 
Well if you transcend space-time you're 4D.

Though they are embodiments Giratina, Palkia and Dialga simultaneously exist beyond the material Space-time of the Pokemon Universe, nor can they fully manifest themselves there without respective items (Griseous Orb, red-chain) so 4-D.

Arceus transcends 3-D space, the spatial dimension, time as well as temporal dimension making him...6D?

He has never created even a fifth dimensional construct, however, so he can't possibly contend.
 
"nemba is born from and maintained by evil energy.[1] Evil energy appears as purple clouds. When enough evil energy clumps together, or takes over a person, it takes on a physical body, becoming Janemba. As shown in the Shin Budokai games, if Janemba's physical body is destroyed, he will revert to his evil energy state until evil energy clumps together or a new host is found. Evil energy appears in places and planes of existence where Janemba goes, but if Janemba's physical form is destroyed by good energy, then all the released evil energy on that plane of existence will be destroyed.[1]"

^ This and the other quote are from here : http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Janemba
 
The wiki literally debunked his nigh omnipresence...

Janemba is summoned by evil Ki and it makes him appear as if he was everywhere

In his evil energy state he's just lumps of purple clouds and can't fight at all

He did need to spread himself and he can't appear everywhere he's just summoned by Ki if he's in his evil energy state his non corporeal state is just purple clouds
 
Shanks of the red haired pirates said:
Check the edit history admins revert edits that aren't valid so no..
Click to expand...
The DB wiki gets called as an invalid source most of the time by Kanzenshuu, so it has a bad reputation. But existing along as evil itself exist sounds like Nigh-Omnipresent for me, and your source sounds like it says he exists in various planes of existence at once by his will, and that sounds like 4-D if those planes of existence are timelines.
 
@shanks: where did you get the idea that he can't fight in his non corporeal form, His existence itself caused havocs upon the universe without doing anything, this is from the movie which is bazillion times weaker than its counterpart in Shin Budokai.

No i used to visit that wiki years ago and it's full wankers, there are many retired admins which is a bad thing. Janemba(movie version) was a universe buster according to that wiki, over here he's only galaxy+ level which is a huge difference
 
The dbz wiki is invalid lol...

And he doesn't exist along it as he gets summoned by evil energy and Janemba is just evil energy that has taken physical form as a whole.

In his non corporeal state he's just purple clouds...
 
DeezNuts1102 said:
@shanks: where did you get the idea that he can't fight in his non corporeal form, His existence itself caused havocs upon the universe without doing anything, this is from the movie which is bazillion times weaker than its counterpart in Shin Budokai.

No i used to visit that wiki years ago and it's full wankers, there are many retired admins which is a bad thing. Janemba(movie version) was a universe buster according to that wiki, over here he's only galaxy+ level which is a huge difference
Click to expand...
Check the source of those quotes I mentioned and its dragon ball shin bokudai....

And Janembas power was said to be able to destroy the universe though that's just a statement and not actual evidence that doesn't change their credbility in this regard however
 
Shanks of the red haired pirates said:
The wiki literally debunked his nigh omnipresence...

Janemba is summoned by evil Ki and it makes him appear as if he was everywhere

In his evil energy state he's just lumps of purple clouds and can't fight at all

He did need to spread himself and he can't appear everywhere he's just summoned by Ki if he's in his evil energy state his non corporeal state is just purple clouds
Click to expand...
A wiki is not a credible source of proof. And we see that he is the evil energy and it is sentient and him since it posses people, controls them, warps space and time on multi universal levels, makes copies of others and himself and so on. So no your incorrect, the evil energy is him, and it is able to act on it's own without a body and it is over multiple timelines.

In fact that wiki also says his race is the evil energy as well as the physical embodiment of it. They even outright say that the evil energy is still Janemba. So they even think the evil energy as well as the physical body are both still him.

"According to Kibito Kai, anyone who gets too close to Janemba when he is a cloud of evil energy will be turned evil, no matter what."
 
This is a wiki....

How are wikis not a credible source?....

Janemba is evil energy that has taken physical form

Once his physical form is destroyed he reverts into the cloud form

Janemba is summoned by evil ki with evil energy manipulation apparently so yeah

Thing is before evil energy took physical form it was merely purple clouds janemba is the physical form of those purple clouds

Its not him that simple..
 
Shanks of the red haired pirates said:
This is a wiki....

How are wikis not a credible source?....

Janemba is evil energy that has taken physical form

Once his physical form is destroyed he reverts into the cloud form

Janemba is summoned by evil ki with evil energy manipulation apparently so yeah

Thing is before evil energy took physical form it was merely purple clouds janemba is the physical form of those purple clouds

Its not him that simple..
Click to expand...
They are fan made, and as such not fact but opinion of the writers. They can be good for finding general info but are not proof by themselves.

Incorrect, he is the evil energy period, physical or not, it has shown to be sentient in it's evil energy state as well as with bodies since it utilizes most of it's hax without a body as well, the energy alone posses people, warps time space and reality, moves things around timelines, makes duplicates of beings, resurrects the dead and so on so forth, all without a body. The wiki you even referenced states the evil energy is still him even in non corporeal form, and lists that energy as his race as well as the body.
 
Shanks of the red haired pirates said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR9KOdEJiOc - 12:22

The evil energy is gone, and an assault could come from hell - Goku

This -> "Evil Energy Manipulation ― Janemba is evil energy taken physical form, and thus has absolute control over evil energy. When evil energy is in an area, it dulls ki sensing abilities, and makes Janemba's ki appear as if he is everywhere"

is valid.
Click to expand...
That doesn't change anything. Yes his body is him, but so is the evil energy as I pointed out, the energy absorbs buu, it mind controls Gohan, it warps multiple timelines to his will, it plucks gohan from his dream and brings him to another timeline, it manifests bodies in front of fighters to fight them, it is stated in other instances to be janemba, as I pointed out. You are simply wrong to think only the bodies are him, they are him but so is the energy itself. Anyway I'm done with explain that, at this point if you can't see it your on your own.
 
SSJRyu1 said:
Shanks of the red haired pirates said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR9KOdEJiOc - 12:22

The evil energy is gone, and an assault could come from hell - Goku

This -> "Evil Energy Manipulation ― Janemba is evil energy taken physical form, and thus has absolute control over evil energy. When evil energy is in an area, it dulls ki sensing abilities, and makes Janemba's ki appear as if he is everywhere"

is valid.
Click to expand...
That doesn't change anything. Yes his body is him, but so is the evil energy as I pointed out, the energy absorbs buu, it mind controls Gohan, it warps multiple timelines to his will, it plucks gohan from his dream and brings him to another timeline, it manifests bodies in front of fighters to fight them, it is stated in other instances to be janemba, as I pointed out. You are simply wrong to think only the bodies are him, they are him but so is the energy itself. Anyway I'm done with explain that, at this point if you can't see it your on your own.
Click to expand...
In shin bokudai those energy manifestations of janema are also mentioned to be impostors iirc so yeah pretty much says it all but sure.
 
Omnipresence can't be "gone", it's either there or it's not. If it can be taken away, it's not omnipresence.

He's nigh-omnipresent, he is the sentient evil energy so he exists everywhere the evil energy does at once, he is omnipresent within any evil energy, of course if it's gone he no longer exists there, if the evil energy is gone he is gone, his omnipresence is as large a scale as he is, so wherever the evil energy is, that is him.

Also you can lose omnipresence, Thanos gained and lost it with IG, and even abstract beings can lose it and no longer exist if their concept is removed, that's the same with Janemba, if all evil energy is removed he no longer exists since he is the evil energy, but that is a very hard thing to do since his evil energy exists across multiple universes/timelines and it is non corporeal.
 
Good lord on one side we have downplayers and on the other side we have the db defenders.Dear god please don't tell me this wiki is gonna turn into the CESSPOOL OF RETARDATION KNOWN AS YOUTUBE PLEASE GOD LET IT NOT BE SO!!!!!
 
Derpmaster9000 said:
Good lord on one side we have downplayers and on the other side we have the db defenders.Dear god please don't tell me this wiki is gonna turn into the CESSPOOL OF RETARDATION KNOWN AS YOUTUBE PLEASE GOD LET IT NOT BE SO!!!!!
Click to expand...
Please remain calm. No such thing is happening.
 
Can we try to stick to the actual topic at hand..? If you two need to make such a big deal about it, keep this thread clean and make a separate thread to debate the whole speed ordeal. Please.

Anyways, Arceus stomps IMO, from what I have seen, he casually creates universes. And casually stomped on three Universal+. Each of which embody a certain aspect, one space, one time, and one anti-matter. This really is a group of impressive feats I consider to give Arceus the win.
 
After reading this, I'd have to go with Arceus due to his version of immesurable being greater than Janemba's version of Nigh omnipresence (according to Azathoth), and due to him stomping fully omnipresents. Also, time dump won't work.
 
^ I have no clue why everyone's saying that all of a sudden. The Creation Trio were sealed, hence they weren't omnipresent at the time Arceus trounced them.
 
I knew that, but logically, he should be capable of stomping them in their unsealed forms, as he created them, probably simultaneously.
 
The real cal howard said:
I knew that, but logically, he should be capable of stomping them in their unsealed forms, as he created them, probably simultaneously.
Click to expand...
Yeah, if he's capable of creating them so.. Casually (I recall it being casual when you can get a Dialga, Palkia, or Giratina from Arceus.) I have no reason to argue he cannot stomp on their unsealed forms.
 
Guys I was actually calm when I wrote that comment its just all I saw was practically the same level of downplay that I saw from guys on YouTube who call themselves intelligent.
 
Derpmaster9000 said:
Guys I was actually calm when I wrote that comment its just all I saw was practically the same level of downplay that I saw from guys on YouTube who call themselves intelligent.
Click to expand...
Downplay? If you mean disagreeing = Downplaying, then i have some very bad news for you.

We try to avoid wanking and downplaying.
 
Yeah and so far You've done a fantastic job its just that after all the ******** stuff i have seen on youtube from plebs who call themselves debaters that I've kinda gotten a bit too angry if you know what I mean.
 
Do people actually believe having clones in other timelines helps or even makes you nigh omnipresent

Yeah...Arceus Curbstomps
 
So, it's pretty much agreed that Arceus wins. I'll request a win, or hopefully one of you admins could add it? (If it is added by this time, disregard this. I'll probably delete it myself in that case)
 
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