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Arceus speed upgrade?
- Thread starter The_real_cal_howard
- Start date
- 16,959
- 4,855
Yea but its the fact they're so far below him speed wouldnt matter. I mean why would Arceus even need Immesurable speed when he can just use lower amounts of it to STILL stomp them?
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Plus didnt non complete Arceus do something like dodge Giritina's '''Shadow Force'''?
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- Thread starter
- #44
I'm pretty sure transcend is used properly when it's talking about god, and because there's no other use of it for anyone else but him. There still is the matter of the fact that Arceus is able to call out to Darkrai from some...random place. Also, could it be explained by upgrading the trio to immeasurable (Again, that movie is pure PIS)
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@Anime
I'm confused as to what you're saying. If Arceus has Immeasurable speed he wouldn't need to actually have a direct fight with the Creation Trio (Hell, Palkia even managed to briefly hold him back), he'd just blitz them like no tomorrow. And keep in mind that he was bloodlusted at the time, so if he could blitz them he would.
I'm confused as to what you're saying. If Arceus has Immeasurable speed he wouldn't need to actually have a direct fight with the Creation Trio (Hell, Palkia even managed to briefly hold him back), he'd just blitz them like no tomorrow. And keep in mind that he was bloodlusted at the time, so if he could blitz them he would.
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You can't just disregard the entire movie because of PIS. It's the only time we've seen Arceus fight in any Pokemon media (Besides Platinum for obvious reasons, and even then that's just post-game content with no story buildup), and thus the only time we actually see his personality. It would be literally impossible for him to not blitz them, especially since he was bloodlusted at the time.The real cal howard said:
Also if he were transcendent over them then they wouldn't be Immeasurable at all.
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- Thread starter
- #47
Right. That is a good point.
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He created the universe, this means he predates time and space itself. I don't know why he doesn't have infinite speed as he cleraly trascends the concepts of time and space by simple virtue of being their creator.
The point is that his existence predates the universe, before the universe there was no time. If we can take this part of the lore as legitimate it would grant him infinite speed because he clearly functions without time.
This refers to Game arceus of course, I'm not touching the PIS cluster that is the anime with a 10 foot pole.
The point is that his existence predates the universe, before the universe there was no time. If we can take this part of the lore as legitimate it would grant him infinite speed because he clearly functions without time.
This refers to Game arceus of course, I'm not touching the PIS cluster that is the anime with a 10 foot pole.
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Yes but with that stuff like Palkia being able to do that and no imidiate blitzing can be chalked up to PIS. Yes Arceus was bloodlusted but again, despite not being brought up alot. this is still a movie. A movie made by people who want to try and make it actually interesting, not prove a point on power consistency (given they made god almost be killed by a meteor....), Meaning their has to be some kind of restraint in order to not only make the fighting more fair but also cool to watch given the type of media its taking place in. It would be boring and pointess if they portrayed Arceus as unbeatable compared to the trio and it wouldnt help move the plot given Ash and the others wouldnt be able to do anything if Arceus just ended it like that.The Everlasting said:
PS- Wouldnt Sheena and Damos's power kinda prove Arceus (and maybe the sealed trio even) are transcendiants? Seeing as how they say "Now transcend the confines of Time and Space" to try and connect to their hearts, it would suggest that at least Arceus's heart (yes incomplete as well) transcends space-time
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@Anime
As I said to Cal, you can't just ignore the entire movie because of PIS. It's the only time we see him fight in any media, so it's the only thing we have to gauge him on. Ditto with the argument to movie structure. Besides, Arceus was portrayed as unbeatable in the movie, what with him decimating the Creation Trio. But my point is that if he were Immeasurable in Incomplete Form, he'd blitz them right off the bat and they would be helpless to do anything.
As I said to Cal, you can't just ignore the entire movie because of PIS. It's the only time we see him fight in any media, so it's the only thing we have to gauge him on. Ditto with the argument to movie structure. Besides, Arceus was portrayed as unbeatable in the movie, what with him decimating the Creation Trio. But my point is that if he were Immeasurable in Incomplete Form, he'd blitz them right off the bat and they would be helpless to do anything.
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@Aguila: Complete Arceus is immeasurable/omnipresent. Incomplete Arceus was never beyond space-time.
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Wait Time out I just check and Arceus have Infinite in his incomplete form while Omnipresent in his complete form so no upgrades at all.
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@Starkiller: The OP is trying to upgrade IC Arceus to immeasurable/omnipresent speed.
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@Breloom Really he never stated in what form Arceus is at all.
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- Thread starter
- #55
The real cal howard said:
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@Cal Oh never mind
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Complete Arceus is already Immeasurable/Omnipresent so he's trying to upgrade his incomplete form.
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@Breloom Cal already said it so no need to said it twice.
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- #59
My main reasoning was the fact that he transcended infinite speed beings who are time and space, and he is capable of calling out to Darkrai to deliver a speech from who-knows-where.
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I wasn't finished typing before him.
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Well does the Sheena and Damos comment prove anything?
Based on the wording they need to transcend Time and Space in order to connect to a pokemons heart and both were required to do so against Arceus
Based on the wording they need to transcend Time and Space in order to connect to a pokemons heart and both were required to do so against Arceus
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@Cal: I don't believe calling Darkrai has anything to do with his speed. That's a cosmic awareness/omniscience thing.
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- Thread starter
- #63
Speaking to someone wouldn't be omniscience, and the character is there when it happens.
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As I stated before, I never played MD (or other Pokémon spin-offs) so I wouldn't know how this interaction occurred. But talking to someone who's not in your presence is definitely cosmic awareness.
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- Thread starter
- #65
...this is Platinum.
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Arceus talked to Darkrai in Platinum? I don't remember this.
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- Thread starter
- #67
Mystery Gift event. After Darkrai is defeated/caught, a mysterious voice monologues with a booming voice. This is HEAVILY implied to be Arceus.
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Oh a mystery event... Anyways talking to someone doesn't equal immeasurable speed.
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- Thread starter
- #69
That's why it's used for evidence to omnipresence. Immeasurable would be the reason for transcending time and space (Dialga and Palkia). Like, didn't we just upgrade Alphamon for similar statements?
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How do you know that Arceus is incomplete in that Mystery event. Also cosmic awareness seems appropriate for just talking to someone.
I didn't upgrade Alphamon.
I didn't upgrade Alphamon.
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- #71
He's incomplete because you (the player) have most of the plates in your possession.
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Actually, Arceus forms(excluding type changes) doesn't exist in the games. Incomplete Arceus is only in JoL and the manga.
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- #73
It would just mean that in the games (or as long as the main character is alive), Arceus is incomplete. And the plates do still have a connection to Arceus.
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Connection to Arceus =/= Needed for his true potential. "Complete Arceus" isn't in the games.
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And? If we consider game mechanics, he have all the plates that the player kept for him in the game.
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Again, there's nothing in the game to suggest that Arceus gains power with the plates like the movie/manga.
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@Breloom That doesn't mean he can not gain power with the plates in the game as this is composite Arceus we are talking about here.
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- Thread starter
- #78
Actually there is evidence. The Draco plate increases all of Arceus' pokeathlon stars by one.
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- Thread starter
- #79
Actually, total. Not all.
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Composite refers to Arceus in general. Composite is basically a merging of versions of Arceus into one. But that doesn't change the fact that Game Arceus doesn't have a "Incomplete Form".
