Aragorn (The Lord of the Rings) vs Jaime Lannister (A Song of Ice and Fire)

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

This debate is well known among the ASOIAF and LOTR fandom communities, and the question of who wins between these two characters has been posed twice to George R.R Martin (the author of A Song of Ice and Fire).

Conditions:
Both at their prime
Standard equipment, but Jaime uses Oathkeeper instead of a normal longsword
Victory by death, K.O or submission
R1: No stats equalized
R2: Stats =

Jaime Lannister's profile (scaling for Jaime's skill)

Aragorn's profile (which is mostly outdated from what i've heard)

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

you might wanna restrict anduril

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

you might wanna restrict anduril

I am aware that Aragorn should win R1 (well, unless Aragorn's attack potency and durability is outdated), for R3 even Anduril at an AP equal with Oathkeeper.
I think I will remove the speed equalized

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump

 

[Tyranno223]

Anduril scales off Sauron's LA key so it should be around to stay. That makes round 1 kinda a stomp.

Equalised stats I dunno too well. Aragorn has decades of combat experience in Gondor as Thorongil, and has fought all over Middle-Earth in his travels.

Direct combat skill feats vary. He beats fodder with ease. He fends of the Nazgul (but WoG says this was partly due to the Nazgul just being alarmed by a foe who isn't scared by them.)

His best feat is probably fighting the through the entire Battle of Pelennor Fields and coming out without a scratch (unlike in the movie, he arrived with a reinforcement of part of Gondor's southern army alongside his 30 dunedain and Legolas + Gimli). I think only 2 other characters came out like that.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Anduril scales off Sauron's LA key so it should be around to stay. That makes round 1 kinda a stomp.

Equalised stats I dunno too well. Aragorn has decades of combat experience in Gondor as Thorongil, and has fought all over Middle-Earth in his travels.

Direct combat skill feats vary. He beats fodder with ease. He fends of the Nazgul (but WoG says this was partly due to the Nazgul just being alarmed by a foe who isn't scared by them.)

His best feat is probably fighting the through the entire Battle of Pelennor Fields and coming out without a scratch (unlike in the movie, he arrived with a reinforcement of part of Gondor's southern army alongside his 30 dunedain and Legolas + Gimli). I think only 2 other characters came out like that.

For the skill:
Jaime can face six men simultaneously in combat (via scaling with Argilac Durrandon who can do this despite not being at his prime), and a weakened Jaime nearly defeated and killed Brienne (who is taller, heavier and stronger than Jaime) in single combat, while the latter can hold her own against two men (a man-at-arms and a famous knight who was one of the best fighters in the Reach, and she has killed the former) simultaneously without armor and without getting hit.

Jaime can also beat the Mountain in single combat, and he is comparable in skill to Barristan Selmy who, at 62, can easily defeat a sellsword (who was taller, heavier and younger than him) in single combat with just a wooden staff.

 

[Arceus0x]

Jaime can face six men simultaneously in combat (via scaling with Argilac Durrandon who can do this despite not being at his prime), and a weakened Jaime nearly defeated and killed Brienne (who is taller, heavier and stronger than Jaime) in single combat, while the latter can hold her own against two men (a man-at-arms and a famous knight who was one of the best fighters in the Reach, and she has killed the former) simultaneously without armor and without getting hit.

Jaime can also beat the Mountain in single combat, and he is comparable in skill to Barristan Selmy who, at 62, can easily defeat a sellsword (who was taller, heavier and younger than him) in single combat with just a wooden staff.

Aragorn has fought off like 5 nazgul at a time in a rather closed space. He has fought against hordes of orcs and fought off an entire squadron of uruk hai who are orcs specifically made to participate in large scale battles and be notably superior to casual orcs. Casual orcs can fight against average warriors trained for combat against them (Like in the battle for Gondor, Gondor being a nation right beside Mordor, meaning that the warriors get experience from the constant battles and almost surely they get serious training). He participated and came unscathed from a battle against a mountain troll who was giant and could basically one-shot anyone in the room with him (except for Frodo cause mythril). He is superior to the likes of Ghimli and likely superior in swordsmanship to Legolas, both of whom killed over 40 orcs in the battle of Helm's deep.
Aragorn was 86 at the time of LOTR and during his years before that he was trained and he explored middle earth and experienced an unknown amount of battles.
He has also shown to be on similar levels to Gandalf who is considered to be one of the most intelligent Maiar who have lived for thousands of years and experienced countless battles with the endless forces of Morgoth.

Basically, I don't see how Jaimie with his skill of beating six men and like a dozen or two years of combat experience would win against 86 y/o Aragorn and his capability of fighting off a squadron of warriors made to be superior to average warriors, all of which were wearing heavy plated armor when he was wearing light armor meant for travel.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

He has fought against hordes of orcs and fought off an entire squadron of uruk hai who are orcs specifically made to participate in large scale battles and be notably superior to casual orcs

Well, I'm talking about the Aragorn of the books, not the movies.

I don't know if you're talking about books, movies or both for the other feats

 

[Arceus0x]

Well, I'm talking about the Aragorn of the books, not the movies.

I don't know if you're talking about books, movies or both for the other feats

the profile is of both movies and books, so kinda outdated. Either way I don't remember the books well enough to argue for the book side of things

 

[Arceus0x]

actually sth i found might be useful
Kills the leader of the wargs (super-wolves).

In the leaping light, as the fresh wood blazed up, Frodo saw many grey shapes spring over the ring of stones. More and more followed. Through the throat of one huge leader Aragorn passed his sword with a thrust

The Fellowship of the Ring, Book 2, Ch 4, A Journey in the Dark.

One-shots an Orc captain.

Aragorn smote to the ground the captain that stood in his path, and the rest fled in terror of his wrath.

The Fellowship of the Ring, Book 2, Ch 5, The Bridge of Khazad-dûm

Holds back Orcs on a stairway.

A broad stairway climbed from the Deep up to the Rock and the rear-gate of the Hornburg. Near the bottom stood Aragorn. In his hand still Andruil gleamed, and the terror of the sword for a while held back the enemy, as one by one all who could gain the stair passed up towards the gate.

The Two Towers, Book 3, Ch 7, Helm's Deep

Took this from a respect thread

 

[Arceus0x]

"Aragorn and Éomer and Imrahil rode back towards the Gate of the City, and they were now weary beyond joy or sorrow. These three were unscathed, for such was their fortune and the skill and might of their arms, and few indeed had dared to abide them or look on their faces in the hour of their wrath." ( The Return of the King, LoTR Book 5, Ch 6, The Battle of the Pelennor Fields)

So he has so far come unscathed from all battles he's been in except for that one time he fell off a cliff

 

[Arceus0x]

Aragorn slew many - during the battle in Moria against Orcs of Misty Mountains and Uruks from Mordor

Aragorn is skilled enough to fight against few opponent simultaneously. He slew many warriors during the battle in Balins Tomb. It worth to mention that the Fellowship was heavily outnumbered

Aragorn smote to the ground the captain that stood in his path, and the rest fled in terror of his wrath.

Aragorn easily penetrates orc captain defense, lolstomping him in one move. He strikes with such force and fury that captain soldiers were to scared to face him despite having numbers advantage.

Aragorn and Eomer stomped a big group of wild warriors

The men of Rohan grew weary. All their arrows were spent, and every shaft was shot; their swords were notched, and their shields were riven. Three times Aragorn and Eomer rallied them, and three times Andu´ ril flamed in a desperate charge that drove the enemy from the wall.

 

[Arceus0x]

Basically the books seem to have even more skill feats.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Took this from a respect thread

Yeah I've read some respect thread on Aragorn (books), but I haven't seen anything in terms of skill that allows him to defeat Jaime Lannister

 

[Arceus0x]

Yeah I've read some respect thread on Aragorn (books), but I haven't seen anything in terms of skill that allows him to defeat Jaime Lannister

and yet i have, funny innit? Like cool, Jamie can fight some swordsmen and can match the skills of a person who fought off 6 swordsmen.
Aragorn meanwhile
1. fought off a horde of uruk hai who are above orcs who are~ average warriors and sport full armor,all that while distracting them from Frodo to keep the ring safe.
2. with mild assistance came out unscathed after chasing off a large group of warriors and leaving them panicking.
3. has come unscathed from every major battle he has been in except one time where he was pinned down by a big ass wolf.
4. is acknowledged and praised by an angel-like being with thousands of years of experience and combat experience spanning lifetimes, only being inferior to him in sheer raw power, not to mention he fought with him as well
5. his life has been 4x larger than that of Jamie.
6. Fought on par and trained with Legolas who is a highly above average elf, an average elf warrir being superior to an average human warrior

Add that to the fact that he is beyond normal human, as in, he has better senses, better stealth, a stamina good enough to run for 3 days straight without stopping and not showing signs of being tired, and you get yourself someone who'd turn Jamie to scrap.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Kills the leader of the wargs (super-wolves).

Probably the most useful feat against Jaime, but in ASOIAF a 12-year-old girl single-handedly faced a pack of wolves and a 9-year-old killed a bull in combat

One-shots an Orc captain.

How skilled is a Orc captain ?

Holds back Orcs on a stairway.

Where is the skill feat in this passage?

"Aragorn and Éomer and Imrahil rode back towards the Gate of the City, and they were now weary beyond joy or sorrow. These three were unscathed, for such was their fortune and the skill and might of their arms, and few indeed had dared to abide them or look on their faces in the hour of their wrath." ( The Return of the King, LoTR Book 5, Ch 6, The Battle of the Pelennor Fields)

What is the context of this feat? These three characters faced an army on their own?

Aragorn is skilled enough to fight against few opponent simultaneously. He slew many warriors during the battle in Balins Tomb. It worth to mention that the Fellowship was heavily outnumbered

It only says in the text that Aragorn slew multiple opponents, not that he faced several opponents simultaneously. It's a vague feat, any ASOIAF fighters can also kill many enemies in a battle.

Aragorn easily penetrates orc captain defense, lolstomping him in one move. He strikes with such force and fury that captain soldiers were to scared to face him despite having numbers advantage.

This is not a skill feat

Aragorn and Eomer stomped a big group of wild warriors

It's vague too

 

[Arceus0x]

Probably the most useful feat against Jaime, but in ASOIAF a 12-year-old girl single-handedly faced a pack of wolves and a 9-year-old killed a bull in combat

these aren't just wolved, these are giant wolves made specifically for combat and murder with armed orcs on their backs controlling them

How skilled is a Orc captain ?

average trained warrior ~ average orc < average uruk hai warrior <<< Captain (the captain was able to fight Boromir who fought off multiple uruk hai at the same time)

Where is the skill feat in this passage?

it is slightly underexplained but it is the moment i linked you from the movies (if you watched more than 10 seconds of it that is). He held off dozens of uruk hai and later came out unscathed from the battle

What is the context of this feat? These three characters faced an army on their own?

they were the only ones completely unscathed despite being in the midst of a battle with battle-hardened warriors where many of their own captains and best warriors fell.

Spoiler: context

Hard fighting and long labour they had still; for the Southrons were bold men and grim, and fierce in despair; and the Easterlings were strong and war-hardened and asked for no quarter. And so in this place and that, by burned homestead or barn, upon hillock or mound, under wall or on field, still they gathered and rallied and fought until the day wore away.


Then the Sun went at last behind Mindolluin and filled all the sky with a great burning, so that the hills and the mountains were dyed as with blood; fire glowed in the River, and the grass of the Pelennor lay red in the nightfall. And in that hour the great Battle of the field of Gondor was over; and not one living foe was left within the circuit of the Rammas. All were slain save those who fled to die, or to drown in the red foam of the River. Few ever came eastward to Morgul or Mordor; and to the land of the Haradrim came only a tale from far off: a rumour of the wrath and terror of Gondor.


Aragorn and eomer and Imrahil rode back towards the Gate of the City, and they were now weary beyond joy or sorrow. These three were unscathed, for such was their fortune and the skill and might of their arms, and few indeed had dared to abide them or look on their faces in the hour of their wrath. But many others were hurt or maimed or dead upon the field. The axes hewed Forlong as he fought alone and unhorsed; and both Duilin of Morthond and his brother were trampled to death when they assailed the mumakil, leading their bowmen close to shoot at the eyes of the monsters. Neither Hirluin the fair would return to Pinnath Gelin, nor Grimbold to Grimslade, nor Halbarad to the Northlands, dour-handed Ranger. No few had fallen, renowned or nameless, captain or soldier;

It only says in the text that Aragorn slew multiple opponents, not that he faced several opponents simultaneously. It's vague feat, any ASOIAF fighters can also kill many enemies in a battle.

it's called a supporting feat

This is not a skill feat

yes it is, he was so powerful and skilled that he made the orc warriors run away in terror after obliterating their captain who is above them in skill on average

It's vague too

still a feat as he was one of the main force of the attacks as the other warriors were weary. This also shows the fact that he can fight far longer than average warriors.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

1. fought off a horde of uruk hai who are above orcs who are~ average warriors and sport full armor,all that while distracting them from Frodo to keep the ring safe.

Are you talking about books or movies? Then the orcs are not the creatures that can be killed by Hobbits in combat? Have Hobbits been trained in combat for years?

2. with mild assistance came out unscathed after chasing off a large group of warriors and leaving them panicking.

Are you talking about the feats you sent? If so these are vague feats, as said above

3. has come unscathed from every major battle he has been in except one time where he was pinned down by a big ass wolf.

Do you have proof that he never received any wounds during all his battles? Jaime participated in three battles, so far as we know, and no injuries were mentioned during those (except during the battle in the Whispering Woods, but we don't know if it was during his fights or during his arrest where he did not have his sword)

4. is acknowledged and praised by an angel-like being with thousands of years of experience and combat experience spanning lifetimes, only being inferior to him in sheer raw power, not to mention he fought with him as well

5. his life has been 4x larger than that of Jamie.

Experience is good, but it's useless if the character in front has better skill feats.

6. Fought on par and trained with Legolas who is a highly above average elf, an average elf warrir being superior to an average human warrior

Superior in what?

 

[Arceus0x]

Are you talking about books or movies? Then the orcs are not the creatures that can be killed by Hobbits in combat? Have Hobbits been trained in combat for years?

hobbits struggle to kill any orcs and marie and pippin were almost anihilated by one orc with a knife. They are able to kill orcs deadass because of being canonically extreme skill at throwing rocks with great precision and hard enough to kill powerful opponents, a skill that came all the way back from the wars against goblins that happened many ages before that. When it comes to hand to hand combat they were apperhanded immediately after they tried to rush into battle against the uruk hai. There are other examples like Bilbo struggling to kill a young cave goblin. The only one who could fight orcs for real was Sam and im pretty sure he was using the ring too, not to mention he is also the one who killed Shelob the giant spider with like aeons of hunting experience.

Are you talking about the feats you sent? If so these are vague feats, as said above

vauge this, vague that, you can keep calling things vague but this doesn't help your case at all

Do you have proof that he never received any wounds during all his battles? Jaime participated in three battles, so far as we know, and no injuries were mentioned during those (except during the battle in the Whispering Woods, but we don't know if it was during his fights or during his arrest where he did not have his sword)

It was stated many times that he came unscathed out of many battles and the same was shown in the movies as well. Even if (mind the if) at some point he did recieve minor cuts or sth it was never notable enough to prevent him from fighting at full power, except for falling off a cliff that one time.
Basically he is the same as Jamie or better in this regard.

Experience is good, but it's useless if the character in front has better skill feats.

except he doesn't and best feat you've brought up so far was Jamie fighting 6 dudes which is outclassed by Aragorn fighting off a horde of uruk hai solo.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

(the captain was able to fight Boromir who fought off multiple uruk hai at the same time)

Do you have the feat?

it is slightly underexplained but it is the moment i linked you from the movies (if you watched more than 10 seconds of it that is). He held off dozens of uruk hai and later came out unscathed from the battle

Yes, but I prefer to see the feat from the book, not from the film.

they were the only ones completely unscathed despite being in the midst of a battle with battle-hardened warriors where many of their own captains and best warriors fell.

I see, but in the passage it literally says luck played a part in it, not just skill. This feat is nothing better than Jaime's

it's called a supporting feat

A supporting feat that does not support any feat

still a feat as he was one of the main force of the attacks as the other warriors were weary. This also shows the fact that he can fight far longer than average warriors.

The passage just says that Aragorn led rallied the soldiers to repel the enemy, not that Aragorn wasn't weary.

 

[Arceus0x]

Superior in what?

senses, agility, stealth, experience (elves live hundreds to thousands of years)

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

vauge this, vague that, you can keep calling things vague but this doesn't help your case at all

I say it's vague because it is. Just saying "he killed a lot of enemies" in a text doesn't mean he can face six simultaneously.

Basically he is the same as Jamie or better in this regard.

The same, because the only injury known to Jaime during the battle in the Whispering Wood is precisely a cut, and we don't know if it was during a fight or not.

except he doesn't and best feat you've brought up so far was Jamie fighting 6 dudes which is outclassed by Aragorn fighting off a horde of uruk hai solo.

And I'm waiting for the Uruk skills feats

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

senses, agility, stealth, experience (elves live hundreds to thousands of years)

Except the agility and experience, the rest is useless in single combat

 

[Arceus0x]

Do you have the feat?

nvm i got that wrong. The uruk hai captain shot him dead but never 1v1d him, unless it happens in the books which i cannot confirm due to lack of knowledge and haven't read the book since i was like 8

Yes, but I prefer to see the feat from the book, not from the film.

i've showed you the quote, he held them off. I am not going to go out and search through the whole damn book for a fun and games thread rn.

I see, but in the passage it literally says luck played a part in it, not just skill. This feat is nothing better than Jaime's

as far as i remember this was definitely not the only time this happened, not to mention that this was a particularly brutal battle.

A supporting feat that does not support any feat

har har, no, it supports all the feats i've listed so far that you downplay to hell.

The passage just says that Aragorn led rallied the soldiers to repel the enemy, not that Aragorn wasn't weary.

it would've mentioned he was tired and it only mentioned the rohirim being tired. We also know he is able to run for 3 days straight so this was a supporting feat.


Either way i gotta go since new year's in like 20 mins. If you want an argument with someone who has read the book properly in the past 10 years go to the supporters list of the LOTR verse, search em up here and ask them to join the argument. that's all i can say sadly.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

in the books which i cannot confirm due to lack of knowledge and haven't read the book since i was like 8

And I'm only considering the Aragorn from the books in this versus, if it's been so long since you read the books how can you be sure Aragorn wins?

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

i've showed you the quote, he held them off.

"In his hand still Andruil gleamed, and the terror of the sword for a while held back the enemy, as one by one all who could gain the stair passed up towards the gate."
This quote? Is it the light of the sword or the skill of Aragorn that is holding them back here?

har har, no, it supports all the feats i've listed so far that you downplay to hell.

I still don't see any Aragorn feat that can do 1 vs 6 simultaneously, not even 1 vs 4

Either way i gotta go since new year's in like 20 mins. If you want an argument with someone who has read the book properly in the past 10 years go to the supporters list of the LOTR verse, search em up here and ask them to join the argument. that's all i can say sadly.

Okay

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump