Apotheosis: Cosmology Introduction

[MJ2K3]

Even though the cosmology of Apotheosis is intriguing and quite unique, I'll try to summarize.

The realities of the verse are divided into levels, where a higher level encompasses the lower level in a transcendental way, no matter how great the power of the lower level is, is insignificant compared to the higher level since the lower level is just a version degraded from the top level. Even if you have infinite power at the lower level, the same is finite and much less at the higher level.

The levels are: Universe - 1 (base), God Domain (2), Mother World (2), Outer Domain Heavenly Demon (2), Chaotic Source World (2), 87 Tombstones (2), Primal Chaos (3), Other Shore (3/4 - Special Place that intersects two different levels), Void (3/4), Profound World (4 - Beyond concept of space and Time).
There is a concept in the verse called Globe Worlds, in a simple way is the sum of all realities that have the same energy level. In short, a Universe is within the God Domain, the God Domain exists on the same plane as others of the same level and they exist within the Primal Chaos, and the Primal Chaos is just a SubWorld of a Globe.

Although both are on the same level, one encompasses the other countless times, either in size or power.

Well the remaining levels are irrelevant before establishing these above mentioned

Well I'll start by explaining the lowest acceptable level of reality in the verse

Universes

In Apotheosis Universes are nothing more than just Inner Worlds of a God (Each Cultivator in Apotheosis has an Inner World/Universe inside their own body, which functions as the source of power and their immortality).
There are countless Gods, they are born and die constantly, so it's impossible to measure and we don't consider them as part of cosmology. But there are special Gods called Saints, their Inner Worlds are outside their own body and they exist as a true existence and not just a dream like other gods.

Universes are built on the basis of the Divine Dao, they are purely based on them, only one Divine Dao is needed for that. In other words, the Universes are nothing more than the materialization of the understanding of a Divine Dao, the Saints can freely choose which concepts can exist in the Universe, create their laws, manipulate everything that exists there. scan...

Universe of Great Expanse

The Universe is divided into two categories, the Lower Realm and the Upper Realm.

The Lower Realm:

Every "Thousand Great World" is separated by a wall of light. All the "Thousand Great World" in the lower realm has a common space far above having billions of trillions of star clusters similar to the normal known universe. Each Thousand great world is a very large land unlike a planet and contains various continents, above which there is a sky filled with gang wind.. Scan 1

The Upper Realm

These are the individual worlds in the upper realm. Each great world has a spherical structure and it can be extremely large as compared to the thousand great world with a diamond shaped structure which is only one thousandth of a great world. All the great worlds together has billions of billions of stars and planets so that it is very similar to a extremely large galaxy.(Refer ch.1725 in LN), The great worlds are arranged in a circular pattern in the universe. Scans: 2.....

Heavenly Dao
Is a super entity responsible for controlling the universe, its laws, time, space, causality, and other aspects of the universe. scann

I won't say much about the Universe, I just wanted to demonstrate that it is infinite.
Now I will talk about God Domain and I will summarize

God Domain

God Domain is the home of the True Gods and Saints. There are countless Gods and few Saints. All Universes are attached to God Domain, they a many times smaller than a single part of God Domain, the Universes stay close to each other. scan about god domain
God Domain itself is infinite, there countless realities on God Domain, just like an Multiverse that continually expand.

Time Sea

It's a Forbidden Land, it forms from Faith Energy, well I won't explain much about it, since the scans already detail the same. In short, Time Sea is an infinite sea, with infinite waves, each wave contains countless Time Cracks, these Time Cracks are a concept, that is, it is an infinite sea of time concept, some cracks are a complete existence of God Domain in another scope of time, infinite times, infinite God Domain, like an infinite Multiverse that always grows with each second forming infinite branches. scan

Energies of the Verse

In apotheosis, energy is the origin of everything that exists, be it something physical, spiritual, abstract or conceptual. everything is originated by energy, everything has energy, concepts of space and time are just transformations of energy, the question is who not everyone can manipulate energy at such a high level as to rewrite these concepts. But simply, manipulating energy grants one complete freedom over existence. That's why all characters in the verse have the ability to manipulate concepts and laws, it's something natural of the verse, dimensionality is irrelevant (manipulating energy is equivalent to manipulating concepts) since certain beings are made of pure energy and also manipulate the same. The highest form of energy known is the Truth of Chaos, which dictates the laws about chaos and all other energies, truth is the iron law that separates and limits the levels of existence. Scan

Faith Energy

Is an Special Energy created by belief and thoughts, they are transformation of True Essence or Chaos Qi. They can create a whole reality (Faith Energy created Karma/Causality Law, created afterlife/Hell and Heavens, faith can materialize the collective thoughts of a certain civilization, Demons, Dragons, Devil all of them were created by faith ) Faith can create concepts and abstract concepts, for example, created "Fear Creatures" that are conceptual beings, they can never be destroyed as long faith energy exist. scan

Divine Dao
Special Energies that made up all realities within Chaos, those energies are the foundation of all realities they shape the rules of certain aspects. For example Great Expanse Divine Dao is the source of concept of counting and calculation. The Young Fire Divine Dao is the source of concept of Fire and the source of all Fires.

Chaos Qi

Is most fundamental energy that exist within primal chaos, it can turned into anything and everything (Abstract Concepts are just transformation of this energy, to be honest the reality itself is just a transformation of energy, that's why Divine Dao act on all states of existence (concrete, energetic, spiritual, abstract and transcendent), they can be used to erase concepts, create, manipulate, can be used to do anything). Chaos Qi is the source of everything and precedes the creation of everything.
Chaos Qi can devour other energies and the reality itself if not controlled.

True Essence

Just a fundamental energy that made up everything, is a degraded and refined version of Chaos Qi, is the source of everything within a Universe, the reality itself is created by this energy.

Primal Chaos

I won't say much because the explanation is in the scans, Chaos is a plane that precedes all creation, it is infinite, consists and encompasses countless realities (Universes, God Domain, MotherWorld, 87 Tombstones and others not mentioned), the Chaos itself is a transdual void, it has type 4 transduality. scans...

Void/ Second Other Shore
It is a void beyond Chaos, but it still exists below the Profound World, it is a void that has the realities erased from Chaos by the Chaos Ancient God, in that void if the realities are not recovered within a short period of time the same will be erased and become non-existent, but the Worry Free King (King Manard) created a truth that allowed him to rule this void, he was able to manipulate the time and space of the realities that were thrown there, he joined them and created a Realm that it was independent of Chaos.
King Manard also manipulates the void, being able to create anything out of void or return anything to void/nonexistence.
This void has a connection to the Profound World and even though King Manard was unable to adapt to this higher world, he could only vaguely try to sneak into it. scan...

Profound World (Higher World)

It is a world that lacks both concepts of space and time, the beings of this world are those who created Chaos and countless Chaos-like planes as a way to obtain more power through entropy. scans...

If this thread is well accepted I will do a second one going deeper into what I presented and also presenting the power level of the verse.
If there is any doubt, just comment on both the verse itself and the scans.

I would like to credit Zero @mass and @BoundlessDumbness

 

[Timeless]

I will read more about this in a sec but it looks like the Profound World is at least 1-A maybe higher. I need to see the expected tiers. I'm going to ask to see if any mods are interested in this verse.

 

[Timeless]

Even though the cosmology of Apotheosis is intriguing and quite unique, I'll try to summarize.

The realities of the verse are divided into levels, where a higher level encompasses the lower level in a transcendental way, no matter how great the power of the lower level is, is insignificant compared to the higher level since the lower level is just a version degraded from the top level. Even if you have infinite power at the lower level, the same is finite and much less at the higher level.

The levels are: Universe - 1 (base), God Domain (2), Mother World (2), Outer Domain Heavenly Demon (2), Chaotic Source World (2), 87 Tombstones (2), Primal Chaos (3), Other Shore (3/4 - Special Place that intersects two different levels), Void (3/4), Profound World (4 - Beyond concept of space and Time).
There is a concept in the verse called Globe Worlds, in a simple way is the sum of all realities that have the same energy level. In short, a Universe is within the God Domain, the God Domain exists on the same plane as others of the same level and they exist within the Primal Chaos, and the Primal Chaos is just a SubWorld of a Globe.

Although both are on the same level, one encompasses the other countless times, either in size or power.

Well the remaining levels are irrelevant before establishing these above mentioned

Well I'll start by explaining the lowest acceptable level of reality in the verse

Universes

In Apotheosis Universes are nothing more than just Inner Worlds of a God (Each Cultivator in Apotheosis has an Inner World/Universe inside their own body, which functions as the source of power and their immortality).
There are countless Gods, they are born and die constantly, so it's impossible to measure and we don't consider them as part of cosmology. But there are special Gods called Saints, their Inner Worlds are outside their own body and they exist as a true existence and not just a dream like other gods.

Universes are built on the basis of the Divine Dao, they are purely based on them, only one Divine Dao is needed for that. In other words, the Universes are nothing more than the materialization of the understanding of a Divine Dao, the Saints can freely choose which concepts can exist in the Universe, create their laws, manipulate everything that exists there. scan...

Universe of Great Expanse

The Universe is divided into two categories, the Lower Realm and the Upper Realm.

The Lower Realm:

Every "Thousand Great World" is separated by a wall of light. All the "Thousand Great World" in the lower realm has a common space far above having billions of trillions of star clusters similar to the normal known universe. Each Thousand great world is a very large land unlike a planet and contains various continents, above which there is a sky filled with gang wind.. Scan 1

The Upper Realm

These are the individual worlds in the upper realm. Each great world has a spherical structure and it can be extremely large as compared to the thousand great world with a diamond shaped structure which is only one thousandth of a great world. All the great worlds together has billions of billions of stars and planets so that it is very similar to a extremely large galaxy.(Refer ch.1725 in LN), The great worlds are arranged in a circular pattern in the universe. Scans: 2.....

I won't say much about the Universe, I just wanted to demonstrate that it is infinite.
Now I will talk about God Domain and I will summarize

God Domain

God Domain is the home of the True Gods and Saints. There are countless Gods and few Saints. All Universes are attached to God Domain, they a many times smaller than a single part of God Domain, the Universes stay close to each other. scan about god domain
God Domain itself is infinite, there countless realities on God Domain, just like an Multiverse that continually expand.

Time Sea

It's a Forbidden Land, it forms from Faith Energy, well I won't explain much about it, since the scans already detail the same. In short, Time Sea is an infinite sea, with infinite waves, each wave contains countless Time Cracks, these Time Cracks are a concept, that is, it is an infinite sea of time concept, some cracks are a complete existence of God Domain in another scope of time, infinite times, infinite God Domain, like an infinite Multiverse that always grows with each second forming infinite branches. scan

Energies of the Verse

In apotheosis, energy is the origin of everything that exists, be it something physical, spiritual, abstract or conceptual. everything is originated by energy, everything has energy, concepts of space and time are just transformations of energy, the question is who not everyone can manipulate energy at such a high level as to rewrite these concepts. But simply, manipulating energy grants one complete freedom over existence. That's why all characters in the verse have the ability to manipulate concepts and laws, it's something natural of the verse, dimensionality is irrelevant (manipulating energy is equivalent to manipulating concepts) since certain beings are made of pure energy and also manipulate the same. The highest form of energy known is the Truth of Chaos, which dictates the laws about chaos and all other energies, truth is the iron law that separates and limits the levels of existence. Scan

Faith Energy

Is an Special Energy created by belief and thoughts, they are transformation of True Essence or Chaos Qi. They can create a whole reality (Faith Energy created Karma/Causality Law, created afterlife/Hell and Heavens, faith can materialize the collective thoughts of a certain civilization, Demons, Dragons, Devil all of them were created by faith ) Faith can create concepts and abstract concepts, for example, created "Fear Creatures" that are conceptual beings, they can never be destroyed as long faith energy exist. scan

Divine Dao
Special Energies that made up all realities within Chaos, those energies are the foundation of all realities they shape the rules of certain aspects. For example Great Expanse Divine Dao is the source of concept of counting and calculation. The Young Fire Divine Dao is the source of concept of Fire and the source of all Fires.

Chaos Qi

Is most fundamental energy that exist within primal chaos, it can turned into anything and everything (Abstract Concepts are just transformation of this energy, to be honest the reality itself is just a transformation of energy, that's why Divine Dao act on all states of existence (concrete, energetic, spiritual, abstract and transcendent), they can be used to erase concepts, create, manipulate, can be used to do anything). Chaos Qi is the source of everything and precedes the creation of everything.
Chaos Qi can devour other energies and the reality itself if not controlled.

True Essence

Just a fundamental energy that made up everything, is a degraded and refined version of Chaos Qi, is the source of everything within a Universe, the reality itself is created by this energy.

Primal Chaos

I won't say much because the explanation is in the scans, Chaos is a plane that precedes all creation, it is infinite, consists and encompasses countless realities (Universes, God Domain, MotherWorld, 87 Tombstones and others not mentioned), the Chaos itself is a transdual void, it has type 4 transduality. scans...

Void/ Second Other Shore
It is a void beyond Chaos, but it still exists below the Profound World, it is a void that has the realities erased from Chaos by the Chaos Ancient God, in that void if the realities are not recovered within a short period of time the same will be erased and become non-existent, but the Worry Free King (King Manard) created a truth that allowed him to rule this void, he was able to manipulate the time and space of the realities that were thrown there, he joined them and created a Realm that it was independent of Chaos.
King Manard also manipulates the void, being able to create anything out of void or return anything to void/nonexistence.
This void has a connection to the Profound World and even though King Manard was unable to adapt to this higher world, he could only vaguely try to sneak into it. scan...

Profound World (Higher World)

It is a world that lacks both concepts of space and time, the beings of this world are those who created Chaos and countless Chaos-like planes as a way to obtain more power through entropy. scans...

If this thread is well accepted I will do a second one going deeper into what I presented and also presenting the power level of the verse.
If there is any doubt, just comment on both the verse itself and the scans.

I would like to credit Zero @mass and @BoundlessDumbness

What tiers do you propose?

 

[Meliodas23]

Cool

 

[MJ2K3]

I will read more about this in a sec but it looks like the Profound World is at least 1-A maybe higher. I need to see the expected tiers. I'm going to ask to see if any mods are interested in this verse.

I also see it as 1/A, but I need the moderators to approve for me to continue with the cosmology and then scale the characters' power level but this is only the weakest part of the verse

 

[Timeless]

I've contacted Ultima but he seems to have little interest. there have been past attempts at this that have all failed

 

[Ren1999]

I've contacted Ultima but he seems to have little interest. there have been past attempts at this that have all failed

why don't you call Antvasima he can summon other mods

 

[ImmortalDread]

@Antvasima can you summon all mods for this cosmology

 

[Timeless]

@Antvasima can you summon all mods for this cosmology

I think you have to go to his message wall or something

 

[TheTrunZ]

Netral

 

[BoundlessDumbness]

UP! Basically I made a thread stating God's Domain is a Low 1-C level, but this looks more detailed than my cosmology thread. I'll review on this

 

[Lawiegg]

Well this looks interesting

 

[Zaratthustra]

First, like I've said in the previous thread the novel and the manhua aren't canon to each other for the manhua skips a lot of things be it the explanation of things, of powers, of cosmology, of even events. So you either use just scans from the novel and make a profile (or more) with just what's stated in the novel or either use just scans from the novel and make profiles for just that. Or the third option make profiles for both - one will be manhua and another will be novel.

Second, from what I know the novel is not picked by a human translator and its just machine-translated by various websites that do such a thing. This means that not only do you need the machine translation/self-translated text but also the original chinese text to be posted in the same scan/part/blog, etc so it can be verified.

 

[Lawiegg]

Sheesh
Any Chinese speaking guys

 

[BoundlessDumbness]

First, like I've said in the previous thread the novel and the manhua aren't canon to each other for the manhua skips a lot of things be it the explanation of things, of powers, of cosmology, of even events. So you either use just scans from the novel and make a profile (or more) with just what's stated in the novel or either use just scans from the novel and make profiles for just that. Or the third option make profiles for both - one will be manhua and another will be novel.

Second, from what I know the novel is not picked by a human translator and its just machine-translated by various websites that do such a thing. This means that not only do you need the machine translation/self-translated text but also the original chinese text to be posted in the same scan/part/blog, etc so it can be verified.

it's a human translation novel from the amazon books. it's verified by the proofreaders from the manhuaplus discord group and been used to proofread the manhua scans. the difference is the name and terminologies because it's been westernized.

here's the proof, if you can you could download it. or we could inquire you to the manhuaplus apotheosis proofreaders for the verification of the HTL version on amazon books, and because he/she's the one who introduced this HTL apotheosis to us.

and we'll use the novel version first for validation, after it's settled, the manhua comes next

 

[Greatsage13th]

Following

 

[MJ2K3]

Ok I got it, so I'll organize the scans, and the scans used were translated by humans as my friend above showed, and I'll delete the Manhua scans,

First, like I've said in the previous thread the novel and the manhua aren't canon to each other for the manhua skips a lot of things be it the explanation of things, of powers, of cosmology, of even events. So you either use just scans from the novel and make a profile (or more) with just what's stated in the novel or either use just scans from the novel and make profiles for just that. Or the third option make profiles for both - one will be manhua and another will be novel.

Second, from what I know the novel is not picked by a human translator and its just machine-translated by various websites that do such a thing. This means that not only do you need the machine translation/self-translated text but also the original chinese text to be posted in the same scan/part/blog, etc so it can be verified.

but what tier do you propose according to what i have already shown?
since nothing will change except the source of the scans (I tried to avoid the official scans because they use different terms like Yin and Yang being Dark and Light, Positive and Negative, being that it is a Chinese work that is based on Taoism, it would be strange use those terms while the proper terms exist).
I will separate the scans and focus only on the novel.

 

[Zaratthustra]

You use the terms stated in the novel, not other terms. If it says light and dark then light and dark should be, if its yin and yang then it should be. We don't change them to accomodate our needs.

 

[BoundlessDumbness]

You use the terms stated in the novel, not other terms. If it says light and dark then light and dark should be, if its yin and yang then it should be. We don't change them to accomodate our needs.

then is it good if we used the moboreader HTL version? since it's the only human translated version made from this story. if it's okay, then we'll use this for the future thread discussions.

 

[Lawiegg]

then is it good if we used the moboreader HTL version? since it's the only human translated version made from this story. if it's okay, then we'll use this for the future thread discussions.

Its all good

 

[Lawiegg]

Bumb

 

[BoundlessDumbness]

Up!! I do hope mods will notice this thread (if not, there's a clear bias going on here )

 

[Lawiegg]

Geez its sure been awhile

 

[Fixxed]

This verse even not have wiki's profile. Firstly you must create the verse's profile and make discussion thread i think

And then you can make some CRT for upgrade this verse

 

[Lawiegg]

This verse even not have wiki's profile. Firstly you must create the verse's profile and make discussion thread i think

And then you can make some CRT for upgrade this verse

That's bow it works?

 

[Fixxed]

That's bow it works?

Bow???

 

[Lawiegg]

Bow???

I meant "how it works"
But my auto correct is stupid

 

[Timeless]

This verse even not have wiki's profile. Firstly you must create the verse's profile and make discussion thread i think

And then you can make some CRT for upgrade this verse

"This verse even not have wiki's profile" I had a stroke

 

[Yohata]

So
Can anyone tell him how to make profiles

 

[Lawiegg]

Why are u asking here?

 

[Ren1999]

Why are u asking here?

Is there a rule not to ask questions here?

 

[Lawiegg]

Is there a rule not to ask questionst here?

Dont think so but there better ways to ask questions?

 

[Deriot2]

I do not agree with the part where you explain the universe of the great expansion (The inner world of Luo Xiao) and catalog it as "infinite" only because of a phrase - a rhetoric - where it is said that there is an "endless starry sky".

In the novel they literally tell you that the height of the great expansion universe is limited. They even tell you that beyond the starry sky there is an empty space and beyond that empty space is the dome delimited by the wall of sighs (wall of very high density that surrounds the universe). And that from the base of the universe to the dome there is a limited number of miles:

大衍之宇的高度是有限的。

高空之上是诸天星辰缓缓运转，而星辰之上则是一片虚空，但虚空的最顶端就是大衍之宇的穹顶，而穹顶同样也是以“叹息之壁”与外面的世界封闭。

从寰宇的最低端也就是大千世界的最深处，到寰宇的最顶端也就是穹顶的距离是一千八百万亿亿里的距离。

那声音就是从如此高的距离传递出来的...

Translate:


The height of the Great Expansion Universe is limited.

Above the sky are the stars and stars moving slowly, and above the stars is a void, but the top of the void is the dome of Great Expansion universe, and the dome is also closed from the outside world by the "Wall of Sigh".

The distance from the lowest point of the universe, which is the deepest part of the great thousands worlds, to the top of the universe, which is the dome, is 180.000 billion billion miles.

That sound is transmitted from such a high distance...

Note: The Chinese mile (Lí/里) has nothing to do with the English mile, it is a common unit in Chinese literature that has been standardized around 500 meters: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_(unit).

The height figure was more complicated to translate, especially since the value of the "billion Chinese" had to be taken into account.
(Mistranslated this way by the Chinese themselves, since there is no equivalent term in other languages). The point is that this "Millions of millions of Chinese" (亿)is only 100 million in our Western number system. I went to translators on Reddit who know Chinese and that was the number it gave me.... If my calculations were not wrong (math is not my thing) the height of the universe would be around 900.000.000.000.000.000.000 kilometers high (Or 95130075 light years) .... More or less the equivalent of a cluster of galaxies.


You can correct if you see any mathematical errors.


Anyway... My point, regardless of whether my mathematical estimates are correct or not, is that the universe has a limit and that there is no such thing as a literal "endless starry sky".

Unless you start overthinking and saying things like "Height is limited, but length is not".




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You also ignore the context of the scene where the "endless starry sky" is mentioned.

In this context, the venerable celestial/Baghavan is thinking about how something can seem limitless or too big, depending on people's inability to comprehend its limits.

But as a cultivator advances, what was once thought to be limitless or very huge becomes relatively small, as he gets the means to traverse it smoothly.

You left out the final part where it is implied how for the celestial venerables (Baghavan), who reached the peak of power that allows the divine path, the universe itself became relatively small and that which is larger, beyond the confines in which they exist, is the domain of the gods.

(And obviously they see the universe as a place where they are confined, because it has limits -The wall of sighs- and they are limits that they have already probed, because they can go from one end of the universe to the other in hours or days, just by spamming their teleportation which shortens billion of kilometers per use):

当老族长修炼到神海境后，觉得一方大界很大，足足相当于一千个大千世界，一些武者横跨一个大界，甚至要耗费数百年时间……

到了界主境后，他已觉得一方大 界太小了，不过数日时间就能横穿，真正庞大的乃是寰宇！十万大界，百万大千世界，且还有无尽的星空……

成为天尊后的他看来，一个寰宇也不过如此，最为庞大的应是神域。

Translate:

After the old patriarch cultivated to the Divine Sea Realm, he felt that a Great Upper world was extremely huge, equivalent to a 1000 "thousand Greats worlds". Some warriors even took hundreds of years to cross a Great Upper world...

After avanced to the Lord of the Realm (World Lord), he already felt that a Great Upper World is too small, it can be traversed in a few days, and the really huge thing is the universe! A hundred thousand worlds, a million worlds, and an endless starry sky...

After becoming the Heavenly Venerable, in his view, a universe is nothing more than that, and the largest one should be the domain of gods.

While the translation is not perfect, the general idea remains; the venerable celestial never said that the universe was infinite in a literal way.... That was simply his perspective when he first reached the realm of "World Lord" cultivation... In the same way that from the perspective of normal humans the Great Thousand World may be limitless because they don't know its limits (although it obviously has them).

This is the importance of contextualizing correctly.

Apparently any mention is taken without contextualizing or even ascertaining if there is any hyperbole, analogy or rhetorical device (Very common elements in Wuxia/Xianxia novels), so there are probably more things that seem wanked or incorrect to me... But the truth is that it makes me lazy to have to review everything.

 

[Greatsage13th]

I strongly disagree since you posit that the great expansion universe is "Infinite" for just one sentence
-Rhetoric- that there is an "Endless Starry Sky".

Let's put aside the fact that in the Xianxias/Wuxias hyperboles and analogies abound in each paragraph and let's go with your Scan...

In the novel they literally tell you that the height of the great expansion universe is limited. They even tell you that beyond the starry sky there is an empty space and beyond that empty space is the dome delimited by the wall of sighs (wall of very high density that surrounds the universe). And that from the base of the universe to the dome there is a limited number of miles:


大衍之宇的高度是有限的。

高空之上是诸天星辰缓缓运转，而星辰之上则是一片虚空，但虚空的最顶端就是大衍之宇的穹顶，而穹顶同样也是以“叹息之壁”与外面的世界封闭。

从寰宇的最低端也就是大千世界的最深处，到寰宇的最顶端也就是穹顶的距离是一千八百万亿亿里的距离。

那声音就是从如此高的距离传递出来的...

Translate:


The height of the Great Expansion Universe is limited.

Above the sky are the stars and stars moving slowly, and above the stars is a void, but the top of the void is the dome of Great Expansion universe, and the dome is also closed from the outside world by the "Wall of Sigh".

The distance from the lowest point of the universe, which is the deepest part of the great thousands worlds, to the top of the universe, which is the dome, is 180.000 billion billion miles.

That sound is transmitted from such a high distance...

Note: The Chinese mile (Lí/里) has nothing to do with the English mile, it is a common unit in Chinese literature that has been standardized around 500 meters: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_(unit).

The height figure was more complicated to translate, especially since the value of the "billion Chinese" had to be taken into account.
(Mistranslated this way by the Chinese themselves, since there is no equivalent term in other languages). The point is that this "Millions of millions of Chinese" (亿)is only 100 million in our Western number system. I went to translators on Reddit who know Chinese and that was the number it gave me.... If my calculations were not wrong (math is not my thing) the height of the universe would be around 900.000.000.000.000.000.000 kilometers high (Or 95130075 light years) .... More or less the equivalent of a cluster of galaxies.


You can correct if you see any mathematical errors. As I said, it's not my thing.


Anyway... My point, regardless of whether my mathematical estimates are correct or not, is that the universe has a limit and that there is no such thing as a literal "endless starry sky".

Unless you start overthinking and saying things like "Height is limited, but length is not".




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You also ignore the context of the scene where the "endless starry sky" is mentioned.

In this context, the venerable celestial/Baghavan is thinking about how something can seem limitless or too big, depending on people's inability to comprehend its limits.

But as a cultivator advances, what was once thought to be limitless or very huge becomes relatively small, as he gets the means to traverse it smoothly.

You left out the final part where it is implied how for the celestial venerables (Baghavan), who reached the peak of power that allows the divine path, the universe itself became relatively small and that which is larger, beyond the confines in which they exist, is the domain of the gods.

(And obviously they see the universe as a place where they are confined, because it has limits -The wall of sighs- and they are limits that they have already probed, because they can go from one end of the universe to the other in hours or days, just by spamming their teleportation which shortens billion of kilometers per use):

当老族长修炼到神海境后，觉得一方大界很大，足足相当于一千个大千世界，一些武者横跨一个大界，甚至要耗费数百年时间……

到了界主境后，他已觉得一方大 界太小了，不过数日时间就能横穿，真正庞大的乃是寰宇！十万大界，百万大千世界，且还有无尽的星空……

成为天尊后的他看来，一个寰宇也不过如此，最为庞大的应是神域。

Translate:

After the old patriarch cultivated to the Divine Sea Realm, he felt that a Great Upper world was extremely huge, equivalent to a 1000 "thousand Greats worlds". Some warriors even took hundreds of years to cross a Great Upper world...

After avanced to the Lord of the Realm (World Lord), he already felt that a Great Upper World is too small, it can be traversed in a few days, and the really huge thing is the universe! A hundred thousand worlds, a million worlds, and an endless starry sky...

After becoming the Heavenly Venerable, in his view, a universe is nothing more than that, and the largest one should be the domain of gods.

While the translation is not perfect, the general idea remains; the venerable celestial never said that the universe was infinite in a literal way.... That was simply his perspective when he first reached the realm of "World Lord" cultivation... In the same way that from the perspective of normal humans the Great Thousand World may be limitless because they don't know its limits (although it obviously has them).

This is the importance of contextualizing correctly.

Surely there are many more things that seem to me Wanked and wrong, but the truth is that it makes me lazy to have to review everything.

What are you replying to?

 

[Deriot2]

What are you replying to?

My answer is to the one who created this Respect of Apotheosis cosmology. Specifically I am answering about the section "The Universe of the Great Expansion", the one before God's Dominion.


It is mentioned that the universe of the saints (or at least this universe) is infinite, which seems to me wrong because of the points I explained above.

 

[Greatsage13th]

My answer is to the one who created this Respect of Apotheosis cosmology. Specifically I am answering about the section "The Universe of the Great Expansion", the one before God's Dominion.


It is mentioned that the universe of the saints (or at least this universe) is infinite, which seems to me wrong because of the points I explained above.

Fair enough.

 

[MJ2K3]

I do not agree with the part where you explain the universe of the great expansion (The inner world of Luo Xiao) and catalog it as "infinite" only because of a phrase - a rhetoric - where it is said that there is an "endless starry sky".

In the novel they literally tell you that the height of the great expansion universe is limited. They even tell you that beyond the starry sky there is an empty space and beyond that empty space is the dome delimited by the wall of sighs (wall of very high density that surrounds the universe). And that from the base of the universe to the dome there is a limited number of miles:


大衍之宇的高度是有限的。

高空之上是诸天星辰缓缓运转，而星辰之上则是一片虚空，但虚空的最顶端就是大衍之宇的穹顶，而穹顶同样也是以“叹息之壁”与外面的世界封闭。

从寰宇的最低端也就是大千世界的最深处，到寰宇的最顶端也就是穹顶的距离是一千八百万亿亿里的距离。

那声音就是从如此高的距离传递出来的...

Translate:


The height of the Great Expansion Universe is limited.

Above the sky are the stars and stars moving slowly, and above the stars is a void, but the top of the void is the dome of Great Expansion universe, and the dome is also closed from the outside world by the "Wall of Sigh".

The distance from the lowest point of the universe, which is the deepest part of the great thousands worlds, to the top of the universe, which is the dome, is 180.000 billion billion miles.

That sound is transmitted from such a high distance...

Note: The Chinese mile (Lí/里) has nothing to do with the English mile, it is a common unit in Chinese literature that has been standardized around 500 meters: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_(unit).

The height figure was more complicated to translate, especially since the value of the "billion Chinese" had to be taken into account.
(Mistranslated this way by the Chinese themselves, since there is no equivalent term in other languages). The point is that this "Millions of millions of Chinese" (亿)is only 100 million in our Western number system. I went to translators on Reddit who know Chinese and that was the number it gave me.... If my calculations were not wrong (math is not my thing) the height of the universe would be around 900.000.000.000.000.000.000 kilometers high (Or 95130075 light years) .... More or less the equivalent of a cluster of galaxies.


You can correct if you see any mathematical errors.


Anyway... My point, regardless of whether my mathematical estimates are correct or not, is that the universe has a limit and that there is no such thing as a literal "endless starry sky".

Unless you start overthinking and saying things like "Height is limited, but length is not".




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You also ignore the context of the scene where the "endless starry sky" is mentioned.

In this context, the venerable celestial/Baghavan is thinking about how something can seem limitless or too big, depending on people's inability to comprehend its limits.

But as a cultivator advances, what was once thought to be limitless or very huge becomes relatively small, as he gets the means to traverse it smoothly.

You left out the final part where it is implied how for the celestial venerables (Baghavan), who reached the peak of power that allows the divine path, the universe itself became relatively small and that which is larger, beyond the confines in which they exist, is the domain of the gods.

(And obviously they see the universe as a place where they are confined, because it has limits -The wall of sighs- and they are limits that they have already probed, because they can go from one end of the universe to the other in hours or days, just by spamming their teleportation which shortens billion of kilometers per use):

当老族长修炼到神海境后，觉得一方大界很大，足足相当于一千个大千世界，一些武者横跨一个大界，甚至要耗费数百年时间……

到了界主境后，他已觉得一方大 界太小了，不过数日时间就能横穿，真正庞大的乃是寰宇！十万大界，百万大千世界，且还有无尽的星空……

成为天尊后的他看来，一个寰宇也不过如此，最为庞大的应是神域。

Translate:

After the old patriarch cultivated to the Divine Sea Realm, he felt that a Great Upper world was extremely huge, equivalent to a 1000 "thousand Greats worlds". Some warriors even took hundreds of years to cross a Great Upper world...

After avanced to the Lord of the Realm (World Lord), he already felt that a Great Upper World is too small, it can be traversed in a few days, and the really huge thing is the universe! A hundred thousand worlds, a million worlds, and an endless starry sky...

After becoming the Heavenly Venerable, in his view, a universe is nothing more than that, and the largest one should be the domain of gods.

While the translation is not perfect, the general idea remains; the venerable celestial never said that the universe was infinite in a literal way.... That was simply his perspective when he first reached the realm of "World Lord" cultivation... In the same way that from the perspective of normal humans the Great Thousand World may be limitless because they don't know its limits (although it obviously has them).

This is the importance of contextualizing correctly.

Apparently any mention is taken without contextualizing or even ascertaining if there is any hyperbole, analogy or rhetorical device (Very common elements in Wuxia/Xianxia novels), so there are probably more things that seem wanked or incorrect to me... But the truth is that it makes me lazy to have to review everything.

Thats good but it is a mistake:

" You left out the final part where it is implied how for the celestial venerables (Baghavan), who reached the peak of power that allows the divine path, the universe itself became relatively small and that which is larger, beyond the confines in which they exist, is the domain of the gods.

(And obviously they see the universe as a place where they are confined, because it has limits -The wall of sighs- and they are limits that they have already probed, because they can go from one end of the universe to the other in hours or days, just by spamming their teleportation which shortens billion of kilometers per use):"

1- Wall of Sighs and Universe Limits:

• The Wall of Sighs is a conceptual barrier that doesn't physically exist within the Universe for its inhabitants.
• Inhabitants of the Universe can enter and exit freely, but outsiders must pass through the Wall, which acts as a limiting factor for external entry.
• From the perspective of Heavenly Venerates, the Wall of Sighs does not constrain them, and the Universe, as they perceive it, lacks physical boundaries.

The Wall of Sigh is something said to not exist in reality because that wall does not exist for the inhabitants of the Universe, one can enter and quit from the Universe as they want, but those who do not belong the Universe will have to pass through the Wall since it exist for them, this Wall exist to limit the prevent outers to enters. So no for them (Heavenly Venerate) the Wall of Sigh does not exist, so how can you say that the Universe have a limit since that limit does not exist at all.

" While the translation is not perfect, the general idea remains; the venerable celestial never said that the universe was infinite in a literal way.... That was simply his perspective when he first reached the realm of "World Lord" cultivation... In the same way that from the perspective of normal humans the Great Thousand World may be limitless because they don't know its limits (although it obviously has them)."

2- They never said because they knew that there were something beyond the Universe...

They never said because they knew that there were something beyond the Universe, if the Universe was infinite there would not be any limits right? But it looks like you didnt read the novel, so i will tell you how those things works:

First the Cultivation it is about absorbing energy into the Dantian then evolves into a Inner World, this Inner World start as an island devoid of any concept of Time, Space, Gravity and so on, then this Word start to expand until it reaches an Universal Structure (with Laws and Concepts) but something interesting is that the Inner World is inside of a cultivator Body, his body contains a whole Universe inside of it, the Heavenly Venerates said that and they found out the The Universe of Great Expansion it does exist in a very similar way because it was a Inner World of a True God (Saint), so here it comes the Level of Existence:

• The Inner World exists within the cultivator's body, containing a whole universe. Heavenly Venerates recognized the parallels between their Inner Worlds and the Great Expansion Universe.

3- Level of Existence and True Gods:

• Beings from Inner Worlds cannot coexist in the same plane as their creators, leading to a downgraded existence.
• Heavenly Venerates discovered that True Gods, who hold Divine Sparks, are the true beings, transcending laws and concepts of the Universe.
• The Universe can create True Gods by giving them a Divine Spark, allowing them to enter the God Domain.

1- A thing that belongs to a Inner World cannot exist in the same plane as their creators, they forcibily downgrade the existence, this make the Creators see their Inner World just as Fiction instead of a whole reality (there was a Heavenly Venerate who fell in love with a being from his Inner World and in an attempt to bring her to his plane she just dissipated), so the Heavenly Venerate found out that the REAL beings are the TRUE GODS and they are just a manifestation of their energy/cultivation, by this they were nothing more than a fiction.

3- But the Universe is different from Inner World, the Universe can create True Gods, by making them hold a Divine Spark wich make both Body and Soul perfect and Transcend all laws and concepts from the Universe, by this they bypass their limitation and can enter the God Domain wich is the Plane of the True Gods.

4- Perspective of Heavenly Venerates:

• Heavenly Venerates, at the peak of power within the Universe, consider the Universe relatively small compared to the larger domain of True Gods.
• Their realization stems from understanding the limitations of being bound to the Universe and the inability to hold a Divine Spark.

So what they said about Universe being nothing more than that it is because of this fact, a Heavenly Venerate is a pinacle of power in a Universe but they are special existences who Hold the Ultimate Law the Universe the Heavenly Dao 10th Law or just Causality. By this they became bound to the Universe and can no longer hold a Divine Spark, they are bound to not live the Universe

you were talking about context and here it is. if you want more i can show you. later i will upload the scans and revise this thread

 

[Deriot2]

Thats good but it is a mistake:

" You left out the final part where it is implied how for the celestial venerables (Baghavan), who reached the peak of power that allows the divine path, the universe itself became relatively small and that which is larger, beyond the confines in which they exist, is the domain of the gods.

(And obviously they see the universe as a place where they are confined, because it has limits -The wall of sighs- and they are limits that they have already probed, because they can go from one end of the universe to the other in hours or days, just by spamming their teleportation which shortens billion of kilometers per use):"

1- Wall of Sighs and Universe Limits:

• The Wall of Sighs is a conceptual barrier that doesn't physically exist within the Universe for its inhabitants.
• Inhabitants of the Universe can enter and exit freely, but outsiders must pass through the Wall, which acts as a limiting factor for external entry.
• From the perspective of Heavenly Venerates, the Wall of Sighs does not constrain them, and the Universe, as they perceive it, lacks physical boundaries.

" While the translation is not perfect, the general idea remains; the venerable celestial never said that the universe was infinite in a literal way.... That was simply his perspective when he first reached the realm of "World Lord" cultivation... In the same way that from the perspective of normal humans the Great Thousand World may be limitless because they don't know its limits (although it obviously has them)."

2- They never said because they knew that there were something beyond the Universe...

They never said because they knew that there were something beyond the Universe, if the Universe was infinite there would not be any limits right? But it looks like you didnt read the novel, so i will tell you how those things works:

First the Cultivation it is about absorbing energy into the Dantian then evolves into a Inner World, this Inner World start as an island devoid of any concept of Time, Space, Gravity and so on, then this Word start to expand until it reaches an Universal Structure (with Laws and Concepts) but something interesting is that the Inner World is inside of a cultivator Body, his body contains a whole Universe inside of it, the Heavenly Venerates said that and they found out the The Universe of Great Expansion it does exist in a very similar way because it was a Inner World of a True God (Saint), so here it comes the Level of Existence:

• The Inner World exists within the cultivator's body, containing a whole universe. Heavenly Venerates recognized the parallels between their Inner Worlds and the Great Expansion Universe.

3- Level of Existence and True Gods:

• Beings from Inner Worlds cannot coexist in the same plane as their creators, leading to a downgraded existence.
• Heavenly Venerates discovered that True Gods, who hold Divine Sparks, are the true beings, transcending laws and concepts of the Universe.
• The Universe can create True Gods by giving them a Divine Spark, allowing them to enter the God Domain.

4- Perspective of Heavenly Venerates:

• Heavenly Venerates, at the peak of power within the Universe, consider the Universe relatively small compared to the larger domain of True Gods.
• Their realization stems from understanding the limitations of being bound to the Universe and the inability to hold a Divine Spark.

you were talking about context and here it is. if you want more i can show you. later i will upload the scans and revise this thread

To say that I did not read the novel when I am putting the RAWs in Chinese of the points I am referring to.... Really?
Yes, I read it, at least up to the facts I'm debating.
It's just that unlike you I try to contextualize better and not get carried away by flowery language.

1- I am well aware that the venerable celestials, by claiming a destiny crown, are bound by a causal law of the universe. This also means they cannot leave it (Or it shouldn't). What you mentioned does not exclude my explanation. Only complements it.

My only point was to demonstrate that the scan you used of the Venerable Celestial saying there is "an infinite starry sky" was just a hyperbole born from the Venerable's perspective in an unexplored world, which he hadn't been able to fathom its limits. There's nothing unusual about this. The adjective 'infinite' can be used to describe finite but considerably enormous elements, as well as things whose limits are still unknown.






2- I already knew how the god's domain and the universes work... A large part of your explanation can be found in chapter 1413.

Now, I think you are wrong in saying that "there is no concept of time, space and gravity" in the inner world of someone in the divine extremity realm of cultivation (which is when the world inside the dantian forms an island and non-complex life forms begin to appear as well).
When Luo Zheng breaks into the divine extremity realm, in the formation of his world, at all times, measures of time and space are involved, even before forming the island:

他感觉自己陷入了混沌之中…… 周围都是灰蒙蒙的一片，他便是在这片混沌之中不断地翻滚，起伏…… 不知道过去了多久，这种翻滚终于慢了下来，他似乎被推到了一片陆地之中，睁开眼睛的一刹那，他赫然看到那颗巨大的世界树！ 而世界树的脚下，则出现了一座岛屿！ 罗征的目光骤然一亮…… 整个混沌海开始凝固了！ 那混沌之气在体内世界中，原本就像是一片无垠之海，此刻便沿着世界树出现了一片陆地。 这陆地的面积并不大，仅仅只有一座小岛而已…… 此情此景，罗征见识过。 当年他进入封念云的体内，就是一座岛屿。 不过那一片岛屿的面积，比之罗征的要大上不少，而且其中已孕育出低矮的灌木，拥有不少森林，甚至还有一个比较原始的部落！ “我已突破神极境了……” 罗征虽然还处于一种十分神奇的状态，但眼前的一幕已经让他明白，自己已经突破神海，踏入神极境，所以才会有那一道绿色的雷劫！ 就是这一道饱含生命之力的雷劫，赋予了整个混沌之海的生命！ 在这里，罗征看到了岁月的演化，看到了世界的雏形，看到了生命的演化 (Chapter 1384).

He felt himself immersed in chaos...
All around was a murky gray, and he seemed to be continuously rolling and undulating in the midst of this chaos...
After an unknown amount of time passed, this rolling finally slowed down. It seemed he had been pushed onto a piece of land. The moment he opened his eyes, he was astonished to see that enormous World Tree!
And at the foot of the World Tree, an island appeared!
Luo Zheng's eyes suddenly lit up...
The entire Sea of Chaos began to solidify!
The chaotic aura in the inner world, originally like an infinite sea, now formed a land along the appearance of the World Tree.
The area of this land was not large, just a small island...
Luo Zheng had witnessed a similar scene before.
When he entered Feng Nianyun's inner world, it was also an island.
However, the area of that island was much larger than Luo Zheng's, and it had already nurtured low shrubs, many forests, and even a somewhat primitive tribe!
"I have broken through the God-Extreme Realm..."
Although Luo Zheng was still in a quite mysterious state, the scene before him already made him understand that he had broken through the Sea of Gods Realm and entered the God-Extreme Realm. Hence, the appearance of the green Thunder Tribulation!
It was this Thunder Tribulation, brimming with the power of life, that bestowed life upon the entire Sea of Chaos!
Here, Luo Zheng witnessed the evolution of time, the formation of the world, and the evolution of life.

The only thing that can be said is that the concept of time in the internal worlds is "incomplete" and that is why it is many times faster than that of the universe.

其实现阶段罗征的体内世界还没有完整的时间概念，理论上，他体内世界的时间流速，比寰宇的时间流速快上无数倍 (Chapter 1459).

In the current stage, Luo Zheng's inner world still doesn't have a complete concept of time. In theory, the time flow within his inner world is many times faster than the time flow in the universe.

This is also related to the fact that all worlds, including Chaos itself, are governed by the concept of time. The difference is that the speed of the time flow can vary depending on the size of the world, with the world of Chaos having the slowest time flow. And to the inner worlds of the cultivators in the divine sea realm, the fastest flow:

从整个混沌的角度来看，时间是极慢的。 真意之海的时间流速次之，再下来则是母世界，然后才是神域…… 至于寰宇的时间流速则是飞快，而寻常大圆满真神的体内世界更快！ 像寰宇中神海境体内的时间流速，放在整个混沌的尺度而言，则要用“瞬”来形容了 (Chapter 2466).

From the perspective of the entire chaos, time is extremely slow.
The speed of time flow in the True Intent Sea comes next, followed by the Mother World, and then the God´s Domain...
As for the time flow speed in the universe, it is incredibly fast, and the internal world of an ordinary Great Perfection True God is even faster!
The time flow speed within the Divine Sea Realm in the universe, in the context of the entire chaotic scale, could be described as "instantaneous."

As a bonus, just as the world of chaos possesses time, it also possesses space. It is just too vast, to the point where it is necessary to use space channels to shorten distances that would otherwise take years to cross:

发现飞舟已离开了空间通道，再度遁入了混沌之中。 远处庞大的混沌云团张牙舞爪，形成一个个巨大而诡异的图案，在长达千万亿亿亿里的范围内除了混沌之气外，再不存在其他的生灵，甚至于物质…… 这一艘凌霄飞舟显得格外的孤独。 “为什么要离开空间通道？”罗征问道。 即使凌霄飞舟的速度惊人，倘若不依靠空间通道前行，前往母世界的时间也要用千年，甚至于万年来算了。 “这凌霄飞舟也无法长时间在空间通道中穿梭，隔一段时间就要离开，等到重建空间通道就好了，”池义手执玉盘笑着回答道 (Chapter 2612).


Discovered that the flying vessel had left the spatial channel and once again plunged into the chaos.
In the distance, massive chaotic clouds formed grotesque and gigantic patterns, within a range spanning trillions of trillions of trillions of miles. Apart from the chaotic energy, there were no other living beings, not even matter...
This particular Skylark vessel appeared exceptionally lonely.
"Why leave the spatial channel?" Luo Zheng asked.

Even with Skylark's astonishing speed, if it didn't rely on the spatial channel for travel, it would take thousands, or even tens of thousands of years to reach the mother world.

"The Skylark can't traverse the spatial channel for an extended period. It has to leave after a certain time, and then we'll rebuild the spatial channel," Chi Yi answered with a smile, holding a jade plate.

3- There is really no reality-fiction difference between god's dominion and the universe (neither between beings).
It is enough to understand that god's domain is based on the energy of chaos. Unlike the universes which are based on true essence molded through the method of visualization.
While it is true that true essence is a degraded energy with respect to chaos, there is a quantitative difference in the density of both. Chaos qi being about a thousand times denser:

意，这混沌之气远远比真元凝实厚重千倍，一旦练成，体内容纳的一方混沌之海便相当于修炼真元体系武者的千倍！(Chapter 1175):

In essence, this chaotic energy is far more condensed and profound, a thousand times greater than true elemental energy. Once mastered, the chaotic sea contained within the body is equivalent to a thousandfold cultivation compared to a warrior practicing the true elemental system!

If there is a quantitative difference in the energy that underlies both worlds, it is natural that, then, there is a quantitative difference between the matter of both worlds. And there is, being the matter of god domain tens of thousands of times denser:

罗征这一路坠下去，也是摔的七荤八素。
神域中的物质的质量比寰宇中的物质大上万倍，这山体下陷崩塌之下，蕴藏的冲击力能够将神变境，乃至于神极境的武者活活砸死！(Chapter 1746).

Luo Zheng also fell all the way down.
The mass of the matter in the God Domain was tens of thousands of times greater than the matter in the universe, and under this mountain sinking and collapsing, the impact force contained was capable of smashing Divine Transformation Realm, or even Divine Extremity Realm martial artists alive!

And that is the problem. You can't posit an absolute reality-fiction transcendence. Not even of a higher physical dimension. When there is a clear quantitative difference in the density of both worlds. Hell, even in worlds like the god's domain and the mother world, beings are born whose cultivation level is somewhere between the realm of the divine sea and the lord world. That is, cultivation levels below the True God and more comparable to secondary beings:

从这女子身边的护卫来看，这沙国中的强者恐怕也是一群神海，神变境罢了，帮她将这些麻烦肃清也耗费不了太多时间，他点头便应承了 (LZ in Mother world: Chapter 2624).

Judging by the guards around this woman, the strong individuals in the Sand Kingdom are probably a group of Divine Sea and Divine Transformation. Clearing these troubles for her wouldn't take too much time. He nodded and agreed.

这时候一个声音自村中响了起来，来者却是一位黑色青年，这黑发青年腰间挂着一柄长剑，目光沉静，赫然便是一位神变境武者。 此人也是一位武者，是神民中的武者么？罗征心中暗暗揣摩着。 他倒是不畏惧这黑发青年，那些神民没有丝毫修为，但一个个都有一身蛮力，反而给罗征一种陌生感，现在看到一位神变境武者豁然之间也变得亲切起来 (LZ in Gods Domain: Chapter 1736).

At this moment, a voice echoed from the village, and the speaker was a black-haired youth. He had a long sword at his waist, with a calm gaze, unmistakably a Divine Transformation realm martial artist.
Is this person also a martial artist among the divine race? Luo Zheng speculated silently.
He was not afraid of this black-haired youth. Those divine race members might lack cultivation, but each of them possessed great physical strength, giving Luo Zheng an unfamiliar feeling. Now, seeing a Divine Transformation realm martial artist suddenly felt familiar.

All that talk about native secondary beings in the universes being 'fictional' is simply because they are artificial life forms, created through the method of visualizing true essence. In this process, cultivators impose their imagination to shape true essence in their dantian and create their internal world (with many limitations, as Luo Xiao pointed out - the internal world can collapse if not done properly).

Anyway, the point is that various interesting philosophical implications can be drawn regarding these secondary beings, but none go to the extreme of stating that they are, literally, fictional beings in that absolute sense that is being suggested

 

[MJ2K3]

1- This does not disqualify the fact of being infinite, you said that wall of sigh limited the Universe but it was also said that this wall does not exist for beings who are inside of the Universe.

The concept of the Sighing Wall act as a filter for those attempting to enter the Evolutionary Universe from the outside. The statement that "It's no real wall, rather it's just a way of filtering those who try to enter it" suggests that the wall is a selective barrier.
Additionally, the beings within the Evolutionary Universe, particularly those with advanced soul powers and the ability to perceive vast distances, don't seem to be constrained by the Sighing Wall. A True God in order to search Luo Zheng covered the entire universe and by soul powers extend to cover the entire Evolutionary Universe, reaching distances beyond the dome created by the Sighing Wall.

Given this information, the Sighing Wall doesn't impose a real physical limitation on those within the Evolutionary Universe. Beings inside the universe can perceive and interact with vast distances beyond the supposed boundary of the Sighing Wall.

if you want more here it is:

By emphasizing the integration of divine woods into a weapon within the Evolutionary Universe, despite their roots reaching beyond the Sighing Wall, the text underscores the idea that elements from beyond the wall freely interact with and contribute to the universe. This reinforces the notion that the universe is not constrained by the Sighing Wall for those inside, supporting the idea of the universe's vastness and potential infinity.

2- The perception of its size depends on the perspective of the observer:

After the old patriarch cultivated to the Divine Sea Realm, he felt that a Great Upper world was extremely huge, equivalent to a 1000 "thousand Greats worlds". Some warriors even took hundreds of years to cross a Great Upper world...
After avanced to the Lord of the Realm (World Lord), he already felt that a Great Upper World is too small, it can be traversed in a few days, and the really huge thing is the universe! A hundred thousand worlds, a million worlds, and an endless starry sky...
After becoming the Heavenly Venerable, in his view, a universe is nothing more than that, and the largest one should be the domain of gods.

In conclusion, the statements suggest that the perception of the universe's size is subjective and can vary based on the observer's level of power and realm. While the universe can be considered both infinite and limited, depending on the perspective and the level of existence. The concept of a Domain of Gods beyond the universe introduces the idea that there are realms that surpass the universe in terms of power and creation. The universe, while vast and infinite, still have limitations when viewed from the perspective of beings that exist beyond its boundaries.

3- Chaos itself has no time or space, no one ever manipulated the space of chaos or time of chaos because what does possess time and space are the realities within Chaos as you could see in the fight where MC was deleted from chaos it was stated that what was deleted was the Space and Time of Motherworld.

4- Reality-fiction

there is no difference reality-fiction between beings and elements from the universes and beings and elements from the god's domain.
But I'll go for the most concrete and unequivocal one; the novel itself established a quantitative difference between the mass of matter in the divine realm and that of the universe:

罗征这一路坠下去，也是摔的七荤八素。
神域中的物质的质量比寰宇中的物质大上万倍，这山体下陷崩塌之下，蕴藏的冲击力能够将神变境，乃至于神极境的武者活活砸死！(Chapter 1746).

Luo Zheng also fell all the way down.
The mass of the matter in the God Domain was tens of thousands of times greater than the matter in the universe, and under this mountain sinking and collapsing, the impact force contained was capable of smashing Divine Transformation Realm, or even Divine Extremity Realm martial artists alive!

1- Such as the mass differential, doesn't contradict the concept of a reality-fiction relationship. Instead, it adds depth to the narrative by highlighting the nuanced and multifaceted nature of the divine land/domain, where physical laws do not align with those of the universe.

2- While the novel establishes a quantitative difference in mass between the divine realm and the universe, it's crucial to interpret this not only literally but as a metaphorical representation. The vast difference in mass symbolize the profound and incomprehensible nature of the divine realm, emphasizing its otherworldly aspects rather than a strict, measurable reality.

Any quantitative difference between two planes that have an alleged reality-fiction relationship automatically dismisses that very fact.
That secondary beings are treated as fictitious or unreal is because they are a form of 'artificial' life. However, there is no inaccessible difference between secondary beings and native beings of the god's domain. Hell, in both the god domain and the mother world there are native characters in cultivation stages below the true god and more comparable to secondary beings in terms of power:
从这女子身边的护卫来看，这沙国中的强者恐怕也是一群神海，神变境罢了，帮她将这些麻烦肃清也耗费不了太多时间，他点头便应承了 (LZ in Mother world: Chapter 2624).
Judging by the guards around this woman, the strong individuals in the Sand Kingdom are probably a group of Divine Sea and Divine Transformation. Clearing these troubles for her wouldn't take too much time. He nodded and agreed.
这时候一个声音自村中响了起来，来者却是一位黑色青年，这黑发青年腰间挂着一柄长剑，目光沉静，赫然便是一位神变境武者。 此人也是一位武者，是神民中的武者么？罗征心中暗暗揣摩着。 他倒是不畏惧这黑发青年，那些神民没有丝毫修为，但一个个都有一身蛮力，反而给罗征一种陌生感，现在看到一位神变境武者豁然之间也变得亲切起来 (LZ in Gods Domain: Chapter 1736).
At this moment, a voice echoed from the village, and the speaker was a black-haired youth. He had a long sword at his waist, with a calm gaze, unmistakably a Divine Transformation realm martial artist.
Is this person also a martial artist among the divine race? Luo Zheng speculated silently.
He was not afraid of this black-haired youth. Those divine race members might lack cultivation, but each of them possessed great physical strength, giving Luo Zheng an unfamiliar feeling. Now, seeing a Divine Transformation realm martial artist suddenly felt familiar.The fact that not every creature native to god domain possesses a difference of inaccessible power, by mere nature, in comparison to a secondary being, also disproves the alleged reality-fiction difference between the domain and the universe.

3

That secondary beings are treated as fictitious or unreal is because they are a form of 'artificial' life. However, there is no inaccessible difference between secondary beings and native beings of the god's domain. Hell, in both the god domain and the mother world there are native characters in cultivation stages below the true god and more comparable to secondary beings in terms of power:

okay it seems like you didnt get it at all
Secondary beings are treated as fictitious or unreal because:
1- They cant leave the universe to go into the God Domain because it exist a existential level that restricts them to it, it doesn't matter if a being from a Universe can crush stars with bare hands, they are still inferior to God Domain citizens, this clearly shows a qualitative transcendence. This shows that power does not matter they will still not be able to exist in God Domain

• The hierarchical view and the need for qualifications to enter the divine land underscore the perceived difference in status between beings from the universe and those native to the divine land. The limitations on secondary creatures are intrinsic to their origin and are not merely metaphorical.

2- To be able to exist in God Domain one must transcend the Universe and its laws, but this is not sufficient, one must prove the Divine Dao or Godly Way by using a Divine Spark or Godly Tile/Plate, this reinforces the reality-fiction distinction. This show

从这女子身边的护卫来看，这沙国中的强者恐怕也是一群神海，神变境罢了，帮她将这些麻烦肃清也耗费不了太多时间，他点头便应承了 (LZ in Mother world: Chapter 2624).
Judging by the guards around this woman, the strong individuals in the Sand Kingdom are probably a group of Divine Sea and Divine Transformation. Clearing these troubles for her wouldn't take too much time. He nodded and agreed.
这时候一个声音自村中响了起来，来者却是一位黑色青年，这黑发青年腰间挂着一柄长剑，目光沉静，赫然便是一位神变境武者。 此人也是一位武者，是神民中的武者么？罗征心中暗暗揣摩着。 他倒是不畏惧这黑发青年，那些神民没有丝毫修为，但一个个都有一身蛮力，反而给罗征一种陌生感，现在看到一位神变境武者豁然之间也变得亲切起来 (LZ in Gods Domain: Chapter 1736).
At this moment, a voice echoed from the village, and the speaker was a black-haired youth. He had a long sword at his waist, with a calm gaze, unmistakably a Divine Transformation realm martial artist.
Is this person also a martial artist among the divine race? Luo Zheng speculated silently.
He was not afraid of this black-haired youth. Those divine race members might lack cultivation, but each of them possessed great physical strength, giving Luo Zheng an unfamiliar feeling. Now, seeing a Divine Transformation realm martial artist suddenly felt familiar.
The fact that not every creature native to god domain possesses a difference of inaccessible power, by mere nature, in comparison to a secondary being, also disproves the alleged reality-fiction difference between the domain and the universe.

• The presence of one Divine Transformation realm martial artist with physical strength does not necessarily represent the full spectrum of power among divine beings.
• Power Level does not matter here, it was said that because of difference of existential levels, beings from Universe are inferior.
• This inaccessible power is from the Structure of the World that have different laws and concepts from each other.

In conclusion, the encounter with a Divine Transformation realm martial artist in the God Domain does not provide sufficient evidence to disprove the alleged reality-fiction difference between the God Domain and the universe. The argument relies on a limited observation of one individual and does not consider the broader power dynamics nor the rules of level of existential status.

So with this i guess that now is clear, not only the structure of those planes but even the laws of reality are different.

 

[Deriot2]

1- This does not disqualify the fact of being infinite, you said that wall of sigh limited the Universe but it was also said that this wall does not exist for beings who are inside of the Universe.



Given this information, the Sighing Wall doesn't impose a real physical limitation on those within the Evolutionary Universe. Beings inside the universe can perceive and interact with vast distances beyond the supposed boundary of the Sighing Wall.



2- The perception of its size depends on the perspective of the observer:


In conclusion, the statements suggest that the perception of the universe's size is subjective and can vary based on the observer's level of power and realm. While the universe can be considered both infinite and limited, depending on the perspective and the level of existence. The concept of a Domain of Gods beyond the universe introduces the idea that there are realms that surpass the universe in terms of power and creation. The universe, while vast and infinite, still have limitations when viewed from the perspective of beings that exist beyond its boundaries.

3- Chaos itself has no time or space, no one ever manipulated the space of chaos or time of chaos because what does possess time and space are the realities within Chaos as you could see in the fight where MC was deleted from chaos it was stated that what was deleted was the Space and Time of Motherworld.

4- Reality-fiction


1- Such as the mass differential, doesn't contradict the concept of a reality-fiction relationship. Instead, it adds depth to the narrative by highlighting the nuanced and multifaceted nature of the divine land/domain, where physical laws do not align with those of the universe.

2- While the novel establishes a quantitative difference in mass between the divine realm and the universe, it's crucial to interpret this not only literally but as a metaphorical representation. The vast difference in mass symbolize the profound and incomprehensible nature of the divine realm, emphasizing its otherworldly aspects rather than a strict, measurable reality.


3

okay it seems like you didnt get it at all
Secondary beings are treated as fictitious or unreal because:
1- They cant leave the universe to go into the God Domain because it exist a existential level that restricts them to it, it doesn't matter if a being from a Universe can crush stars with bare hands, they are still inferior to God Domain citizens, this clearly shows a qualitative transcendence. This shows that power does not matter they will still not be able to exist in God Domain

• The hierarchical view and the need for qualifications to enter the divine land underscore the perceived difference in status between beings from the universe and those native to the divine land. The limitations on secondary creatures are intrinsic to their origin and are not merely metaphorical.

2- To be able to exist in God Domain one must transcend the Universe and its laws, but this is not sufficient, one must prove the Divine Dao or Godly Way by using a Divine Spark or Godly Tile/Plate, this reinforces the reality-fiction distinction. This show

• The presence of one Divine Transformation realm martial artist with physical strength does not necessarily represent the full spectrum of power among divine beings.
• Power Level does not matter here, it was said that because of difference of existential levels, beings from Universe are inferior.
• This inaccessible power is from the Structure of the World that have different laws and concepts from each other.

In conclusion, the encounter with a Divine Transformation realm martial artist in the God Domain does not provide sufficient evidence to disprove the alleged reality-fiction difference between the God Domain and the universe. The argument relies on a limited observation of one individual and does not consider the broader power dynamics nor the rules of level of existential status.

So with this i guess that now is clear, not only the structure of those planes but even the laws of reality are different.

This time I won't even bother quoting dialogues from the novel, seeing how you have responded to (or ignored) them.

1- The fact that the physical walls do not work on its inhabitants, does not take away the fact that they exist. Although I did not address this point because it became too unnecessary to discuss the fact of whether or not there is a physical limit in the universe, when they textually mention to you that, for example, the universe HAS A LIMITED HEIGHT, and furthermore, they give a specific number of lis (Chinese Miles).

The text you passed on where it talks about how "the roots of a divine tree penetrate the wall of sighs"...

Do you realize that it speaks of the world of Luo Zheng?
I remind you that the method of cultivation of Chaos Qi causes Luo Zheng's inner world not to be physically inside his body, but to reside in the chaos itself. And Luo Zheng has a kind of wireless connection (so to speak) with it.

When the divine tree that Luo Zheng planted in his world grew, its roots tore through the wall of the world and emerged into the chaos outside. This helps Luo Zheng cultivate his method based on chaos qi.
Your image really helps me to emphasize the limits of the wall.


2- The fragment of the soul of the god of chaos was very specific in saying that chaos has an extremely slow time. God, even the matriarch of the blind race, the one who possessed dominion over the sea of time of god's domain, mentions that time is so deep and involves chaos and its mysteries.
You also overlook the fact that when Luo Zheng departed through chaos in the flying boat, they made uses of space channels to travel through it.... And teleportation based on spatial channels is nothing more than a way of folding space to shorten distances...

Chaos is just a world with a longer time scale than all the other worlds that exist within it. That is why it is also possible to individually affect these smaller scales... Like for example that of the mother world.

With respect to all the rest.... I can't believe it...
Literally your reasoning boils down to: "Quantitative mentions are metaphors, but excessively far-fetched rhetorical devices are literal."


3- But no, quantitative mentions are not metaphors. If chaos were an energy with a qualitative, not quantitative, difference, then Luo Zheng would have been the most powerful cultivator in the universe since he reached the Divine Sea Realm and established an internal sea of chaos. But that wasn't the case. Chaos only provided him with several times more stamina and power in his techniques, allowing him to face, to a certain extent, cultivators with a higher cultivation realm.

.
But anyway, I'll conclude this absurd debate by explaining that the fact that secondary beings dissolve when entering the God's Domain without a divine spark is just a karmic limitation of the internal cultivation method mediant true essence.

Secondary beings are false and unreal in the sense that they are an artificial creation through the visualization of true energy. They are false in the sense that they lack intrinsic existence and nature, as they are born and exist thanks to the visualization that shapes the true essence.
When entering the God's Domain, which is not governed by this visualization, their existence is claimed by the domain, which reverses them to the true essence.
The very fact that the domain reverses their existence to the true essence that comprises them and reabsorbs it also denies that difference of "reality fiction" because it implies that secondary beings in terms of energy have a magnitude, however small it may be.