AP and LS against Absolute Speed (Dante VS Sonic)

[Pyro9278]

- The Speed is not Equal.

- Dante has access to Heroes & Heralds Cards, Devil Trigger, and starts with the X Factor activated.

- Sonic has 10 Rings, he has access to the invincibility monitor and the fire monitor. Restricted to High 5-A.

- SBA for the rest.

Dante (1645 Ronnatons):

Sonic (160 Ronnatons):

Incon:

 

[Lonkitt]

Dante doesn't simply scale to that level. He upscales it by a lot

Galactus (1.64552679 Quettatons) < Thanos < Onslaught ≈< Spider-Man < Blackheart < Mephisto < Dante

Even if you don't take into account the upscaling, the Dante is 10.28125 times stronger than Classic Sonic. So the difference is over 10.28125 times, plus there's Devil Trigger and X-Factor to take into account

This is an AP stomp

 

[Pyro9278]

Dante doesn't simply scale to that level. He upscales it by a lot

Galactus (1.64552679 Quettatons) < Thanos < Onslaught ≈ Spider-Man < Blackheart < Mephisto < Dante

Even if you don't take into account the upscaling, the Dante is 10.28125 times stronger than Classic Sonic. So the difference is over 10.28125 times, plus there's Devil Trigger and X-Factor to take into account

This is an AP stomp

Yeah, that is the reason for the title. Dante could one-shot Sonic, but he has various haxes that save him, has a substantial speed advantage, and seems to have a quite competent level of skill to evade ranged attacks if they were to keep up with him. The question would be whether Sonic could take down Dante, or if the latter could corner the hedgehog and land a sure hit

 

[LaserPrecision]

Sonic would just AD to Dante's level, closing the AP gap. So that's not really a problem. If you restrict his AD (Which I don't think is allowed unless in fun and games), he's very skilled with a decent speed advantage. Dante seems to upscale baseline. Sonic scales to 2.9c, but has amps that can turn a speed blitz back around on the opponent. Freezing people who were initially too fast for Sonic and his friends. On top of that his reactions upscale his speed 4x by default. With his skill, evading any attack from Dante should be pretty easy. The gap is 10x, so if he hits Sonic, it's not good. But I don't see Dante hitting Sonic any time soon. Especially with the speed amps. So Sonic would wittle him down until he wins.

More realistically though, Sonic just AD's to Dante's level and wins pretty easily.

 

[McFriesGuy075]

Sonic would just AD to Dante's level, closing the AP gap. So that's not really a problem. If you restrict his AD (Which I don't think is allowed unless in fun and games), he's very skilled with a decent speed advantage. Dante seems to upscale baseline. Sonic scales to 2.9c, but has amps that can turn a speed blitz back around on the opponent. Freezing people who were initially too fast for Sonic and his friends. On top of that his reactions upscale his speed 4x by default. With his skill, evading any attack from Dante should be pretty easy. The gap is 10x, so if he hits Sonic, it's not good. But I don't see Dante hitting Sonic any time soon. Especially with the speed amps. So Sonic would wittle him down until he wins.

More realistically though, Sonic just AD's to Dante's level and wins pretty easily.

Doesn't those level of ADs only apply to Adventure era?

 

[LaserPrecision]

Doesn't those level of ADs only apply to Adventure era?

No. This is on Classic Sonic's profile:

Accelerated Development & Power Mimicry (Training, Leveling, Passive & Other, Physical Stats, Abilities & Techniques; Sonic has the uncanny knack of quickly replicating moves he sees performed from his older counterpart, such as when he replicated the Homing Attack and Modern Sonic's Boost to a limited extent. He was able to quickly reach Modern Sonic's level in his aid to the Resistance and even outpaced him with a surprise head start. Improved upon his Homing Attack, could fully sustain his own Boost, and participated in a new Triple Boost during his encounter with the Death Egg Robot. Fought toe-to-toe with and defeated the Egg Dragoon with ease despite being a machine noted to have years of research on Sonic's movement patterns. Characters are capable of gaining experience per step taken, with each level up increasing speed, jump height, and experience gained to a maximum of Level 134; through Rebirths, they can increase their base stats)

He went from High 5-A to 2-C.

 

[McFriesGuy075]

No. This is on Classic Sonic's profile:

He went from High 5-A to 2-C.

Then what would be the reason for him going back to his regular stats in "classic sonic" title games such as mania and superstars?

 

[LaserPrecision]

Then what would be the reason for him going back to his regular stats in "classic sonic" title games such as mania and superstars?

I think that's addressed on his profile. It's why he has a separate key specifically for when he shows up in Modern games. But basically the explanation was the timeline corrected itself when Classic Sonic returned to the past. Thus why his appearances are separated.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Sonic would just AD to Dante's level, closing the AP gap. So that's not really a problem. If you restrict his AD (Which I don't think is allowed unless in fun and games), he's very skilled with a decent speed advantage. Dante seems to upscale baseline. Sonic scales to 2.9c, but has amps that can turn a speed blitz back around on the opponent. Freezing people who were initially too fast for Sonic and his friends. On top of that his reactions upscale his speed 4x by default. With his skill, evading any attack from Dante should be pretty easy. The gap is 10x, so if he hits Sonic, it's not good. But I don't see Dante hitting Sonic any time soon. Especially with the speed amps. So Sonic would wittle him down until he wins.

More realistically though, Sonic just AD's to Dante's level and wins pretty easily.

Oh, forgot to say. But even if AD was restricted, and Dante did manage to land a hit, due to Sonic possessing 10 rings, he tanks it. Rings can transfer damage up to Tier 1. So he just loses a Ring. Which gives him numerous chances to mess up without consequence.

 

[McFriesGuy075]

Classic Sonic has a bunch of ADs. Since he has the invincibility monitor AND 10 rings, it's going to give him enough time to increase his speed to a point where his amps would make him blitz Dante.

His precog would warn him that Dante is a dangerous opponent, which if the accelerated development doesn't take place, he could use Ring Time to transmutate.

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

due to Sonic possessing 10 rings, he tanks it

 

[Lonkitt]

Yeah, now that I recall the points above, I think AD and the Rings kinda just make this a stat stomp in Sonic's favour tbh

 

[Pyro9278]

Yeah, now that I recall the points above, I think AD and the Rings kinda just make this a stat stomp in Sonic's favour tbh

Could Dante with the Infinity Gems make any difference?

 

[LaserPrecision]

Yeah, now that I recall the points above, I think AD and the Rings kinda just make this a stat stomp in Sonic's favour tbh

AD typically puts him on the level of the opponent rather than above them. But I see him winning regardless yeah. The Rings seem unnecessary.

 

[Lonkitt]

Could Dante with the Infinity Gems make any difference?

Well, lets see. With the Soul Gem, Dante could exploit the Health Recovering and Life Draining traits of the Soul Gem against Sonic, but I think the Rings would counter that, wouldn't they? They'd be revitalizing and restoring Sonic. The Space Gem could be useful in sealing Sonic and leaving him vulnerable...but then there's the Insta-Shield, so Sonic could get out of that. You gave Sonic the Invincibility Monitor, so the stun effect from the Mind Gem is something that could be countered depending on when its used. The Time Gem would allow Dante to avoid some attacks via intangibility, but you could outright argue that isn't much of a problem for Sonic since he's able to interact physically with intangible beings. The Time Gem can also create giant forcefields, but I already went over how Sonic counters that. Depending on when Dante times things, he could take advantage of the speed amp it grants though

Also, while base Dante does have regen, its well below the type that we've seen Sonic negate, which is worth addressing IMO

See, I'm already a "Game Sonic is busted" truther, so I can't act too surprised at this. Especially since guy's like Dante don't use the Gems in the same way that MvC Thanos can with the completed Infinity Gauntlet. But even so, I think Classic Sonic's AD, Rings, and other innate abilities make this a bit much for Dante

EDIT: You could argue for Dante exploiting the LS meta which is genuinely in-character, but idk, Sonic's got more speed amps readily available to use against Dante so I'm not sure if he'll get the chance

 

[Lonkitt]

AD typically puts him on the level of the opponent rather than above them. But I see him winning regardless yeah. The Rings seem unnecessary.

Classic Sonic AD is still insane though, like I can't believe I forgot that. Going from High 5-A to 2-C (not even baseline, like, 12 Universes) is pretty crazy

 

[LaserPrecision]

The Space Gem could be useful in sealing Sonic and leaving him vulnerable...but then there's the Insta-Shield, so Sonic could get out of that.

Insta-Shield doesn't let Sonic escape/negate forcefields. It can just attack people through forcefields via spawning the attack inside it. Or like phasing through it. Both technically.

Depending on when Dante times things, he could take advantage of the speed amp it grants though

Though then you have to worry about Sonic's faster reaction, and his own insane speed amps

Classic Sonic AD is still insane though, like I can't believe I forgot that. Going from High 5-A to 2-C (not even baseline, like, 12 Universes) is pretty crazy

Yeah. It gets overlooked, but ig that's cuz it's inconsistent at times. And not always super relevant (Even if Sonic's growth is acknowledged a shit ton throughout the games). in Forces, Sonic went from being relative to Infinite, to fighting relative to someone who could create thousands (up to tens of thousands) of clones of Infinite (equal to the original in power) in the span of like, seconds.

 

[Lonkitt]

Yeah. It gets overlooked, but ig that's cuz it's inconsistent at times. And not always super relevant (Even if Sonic's growth is acknowledged a shit ton throughout the games). in Forces, Sonic went from being relative to Infinite, to fighting relative to someone who could create thousands (up to tens of thousands) of clones of Infinite (equal to the original in power) in the span of like, seconds.

Taking into account how Megaten is connected to Sega, I chalk it up to the company loving insanely busted AD

Insta-Shield doesn't let Sonic escape/negate forcefields. It can just attack people through forcefields via spawning the attack inside it. Or like phasing through it. Both technically.

Ahhh, yeah, thats fair. Though what I said above about it countering the Time Gem's shields still removes true here

Though then you have to worry about Sonic's faster reaction, and his own insane speed amps

Yeah, thats why the Time Gem speed amp is moot to me here. Like, if you give Dante EVERYTHING he could have access to in MvC, he actually has a decent amount of amps to exploit, but Sonic's got a lot more so I favour him over Dante here

 

[Pyro9278]

Well, seeing that this is a stomp, we need to close this