Another confusion about High 1-A...

[KingPin0422]

High 1-A, at minimum, transcends baseline 1-A in the same fashion that baseline 1-A transcends Tier 11.

But... there are a few things I need to know:

1. In some High 1-A profiles, 3-D humanity is mentioned instead of something lower-dimensional. Why rate them High 1-A if humans are not Tier 11?

2. Doesn't this technically imply that Tier 0 is the same way, due to High 1-A being "Tier 0 but with limits"? Isn't that contradictory of Tier 0 being completely above any sort of hierarchal measure?

3. High 1-A also is said to "vastly exceed the requirements for 1-A"; but considering what High 1-A is supposed to be, is that really enough?

 

[DMB_1]

1. That's probably because the 1-A that the High 1-A is compared to is above baseline.

2. You cannot be omnipotent if you have limits. A High 1-A would be the definition of Nigh Omnipotence.

3. High 1-As exceed the rquirements of 1-As because they can trascend an infinite layer of 1-As: basically, if a baseline 1-A is tier 11, the stronget 1-A would be High 1-B, and a High 1-A would be a 1-A.

 

[KingPin0422]

1. With Featherine Augustus Aurora this seems to be the case, but I/O has the Cyberspace Goddesses transcending Marduk like he transcends regular humans, and AFAIK Marduk is baseline. On the same token, Nyarlathotep transcends the strongest Great Old Ones like they transcend 3-D humanity, yet he isn't High 1-A when I'm pretty sure the strongest Great Old Ones are considerably above baseline. (I know there's the whole thing with infinitely many Outer Gods and Yog-Sothoth transcending them all, but still.)

2. True.

3. Transcending an infinite hierarchy of dimensions is not 1-A, why should transcending an infinite hierarchy of their outerversal analogues be any different?

 

[KingPin0422]

Bump.

 

[Antvasima]

1) There isn't really much of a difference between a tier 11 and a tier 10 to a 1-A being's perspective, and all of this is symbolic anyway, as we cannot rationally comprehend either tier High 1-A or tier 0.

2) Tier High 1-A and tier 0 are both far beyond any form of rational measurement, and High 1-A characters such as Yog-Sothoth and Featherine would likely have been rated as tier 0, if there had not been an even higher being above them. We have no way of reliably comparing such characters between different fictions.

3) No, vastly exceeding the requirements for 1-A is usually still 1-A. See Hajun for example.

 

[ProspectX]

Basically, High 1-A is technically the top tier of a verse.

 

[Aeyu]

High 1-A is 0 with a caveat, like one limitation or a being which is above them. High 1-A and 0 are a hierarchy thing, and thus cannot be put against other High 1-A/0's from different verses as a High 1-A from one verse might be > a 0 from a different verse, but we have no way of knowing for sure.

 

[Antvasima]

Aeyu is basically correct.

 

[KingPin0422]

Huh.

When a friend told me that some High 1-As/0s were stronger than others, I thought it was silly.

But if it is actually true as far as we are concerned, then... well.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, as far as I understand, they are basically absolute beyond all comprehension and categorisation, which makes them impossible to compare with each other, but I and Aeyu are not authorities regarding the subject, whereas DarkLK is.

 

[Aeyu]

I'm pretty sure Dark would say the same things that we've already said, but I don't know.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that it is possible, but I think that he once told me that a true tier 0 should be beyond all systems and at the very peak of what all human philosophy has ever conceptualised, so the notion that one can be stronger than another may not be correct, as they are all supposed to be absolute.

Again, I am not a particularly good person to ask though.

 

[Aeyu]

Wouldn't a High 1-A qualify for this as well though, since having two tier 0's would by nature automatically reduce them both down to a High 1-A? 1-A is already a tough tier to quantify logically, and is only really hypothetical as far as we know, despite there being possible aspatial and atemporal objects and parameters in physics and philosophy. If we assume that 0's always must necessitatively be boundless and above everything else, that would bring into play transfictional "omnipotence," would it not? I always assumed that even if it were possible for something to be "beyond," a tier 0 in a verse, that it would, by the nature of that chracter being a 0, be unknowable or unfalsifiable and thus, inapplicable to them.

I suppose I could ask DarkLK to comment on this (if he's not too busy)

 

[Yobo_Blue]

I personally agree with the idea of Tier 0 possibly being merged into High 1-A. The two are the only two not suitable for threads, are essentially the same thing but quantified with a basic a>b system, and the mere fact of being A. Questionable by definition and B. Equal to other Tier 0's should be regarded as a weakness/limitation on a conceptual level

 

[Aeyu]

So what, just making High 1-A for characters vastly above other 1-A characters then? I don't know, maybe?

 

[KingPin0422]

So what, just making High 1-A for characters vastly above other 1-A characters then? I don't know, maybe?

I mean, there's also the issue of what we'll do with those currently rated as High 1-A.

That said, I'm not sure if Tier 0 will be removed just like that, even considering its nature.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

@Aeyu

Perhaps

The only difference between the two is that a>b, something capable of happening within the same tier, along with questionable omnipotence, something conceptually impossible to prove

 

[Yobo_Blue]

@King

It is possible to be superior while being in the same tier

 

[Antvasima]

@Aeyu

I think that tier High 1-A can also qualify for such an interpretation, yes, but again, it is not my area.

@Yobobojojo

We are not going to merge together tier 0 and High 1-A. This is not up for debate.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Understood

 

[Aeyu]

AFAIK, changing the Tiering System would just cause more trouble than for what it's worth, even if such ideas were good.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

@Aeyu

That would be likely. It's also unnecessary currently, and we should strive to keep it from becoming so.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, I think that this topic seems to have been dealt with, so perhaps we should close the thread?

 

[Aeyu]

I think so, yes.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Most definitely

 

[KingPin0422]

Go ahead.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.