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Another Bayonetta Upgrade (A BIG ONE THIS TIME)

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Hmm. Okay then.
 
I am uncertain. Let's wait to see what the rest of the staff think.
 
Ok, so in the end it really comes down to the armageddon feat I guess.

Let me ask tough, the armageddon was stated to "put him into endless slumber" and that he would needs "resurrection". Wouldn't that imply he was pretty much defeated by whatever that event actually was?

Given that souls can exist on their own and can be reborn if not destroyed (when for example not thrown into the sun, like in this case) it wouldn't be impossible that the reason for him being in endless slumber is that his body actually was destroyed, right?
 
The words "resurrection" does not always refer to death, just being revived or having new energy brought into it.

As such, along with the use of the word "slumber", I feel we can simply assume "resurrection", in this context, means revitalization and being brought back into the Human World from her slumber.
 
Yes, but it would seem her original body was destroyed then, or at least the event defeated her and put her out of action in some way. So isn't the feat for durability a rather bad one if it actually put her in a permanent coma by some means or other.
 
Being put in a coma is a little impressive for when you stand in the center of an event that split the universe into three, when you yourself weren't damaged at all.

In fact, the text implies she survived the First Armageddon, governed Paradiso, the was put into an endless slumber.
 
It states she was forced into dominion over Paradiso and put into slumber, both as result of the first armageddon. You would also wonder what else would be powerful enough to put such a being into eternal slumber.

The interpretation of "weren't damaged at all" is actually not given. We basically only know that her soul survived, her body might have been completly destroyed. Given that such a thing as seperation of body and soul can easily happen in that verse it isn't an unrealistic assumption.


But I feel by now we gone through a bunch of discussion points. Maybe Highlighting the thread to get input from other users/staff members would be a good idea now. The discussion is sufficient for them to build an opinion based on the pro/cons I believe.
 
Perhaps she simply let herself go into slumber?

It cannot "easily happen", it has only been shown to be done under deliberate removal of the body (Like some of the Alfheim Challenges) or through attacks from certain Demons (Which is how Jubileus' soul was removed from her body in the first place).

At this rate, I feel we're getting a bit too speculatory, especially since knowledge on the events of the First Armageddon is relatively vague. Now I'm just wondering if Hideki Kamiya has a Twitter for us to ask this stuff. Gonna need to look up on that.
 
The Everlasting said:
Perhaps she simply let herself go into slumber?
It cannot "easily happen", it has only been shown to be done under deliberate removal of the body (Like some of the Alfheim Challenges) or through attacks from certain Demons (Which is how Jubileus' soul was removed from her body in the first place).

At this rate, I feel we're getting a bit too speculatory, especially since knowledge on the events of the First Armageddon is relatively vague. Now I'm just wondering if Hideki Kamiya has a Twitter for us to ask this stuff. Gonna need to look up on that.
Click to expand...
Have fun asking Hideki Kamiya. He would probably say "Go ask your mom" or something like that xD. But still he may give you a good answer.
 
The Bayonetta creator is infamous for being extremely rude, yes. I think that I read that he called his fans worthless insects or something similar.
 
Antvasima said:
The Bayonetta creator is infamous for being extremely rude, yes. I think that I read that he called his fans worthless insects or something similar.
Click to expand...
Hideki may be incredibly rude yes, but he has provided great insight on the development of the Devil May Cry games to answer questions on twitter. He does like his fans but he hates it when people credit him with making Bayonetta 2 or ask him questions he has answered hundreds of times.

I think asking him a question about Jube's strength to Hideki may be a good idea. The worst that could happen is if he gives us a troll response.
 
I don't think you should ask him right now, he is currently being harassed about ScrewAttack and is taking their interpretation pretty badly.
 
I agree with the suggested scaling.
 
So, should we allow the upgrades of the Bayonetta characters or not?
 
Antvasima said:
Hmm. This seems reasonable up to a point.
The issue is that, as far as I have understood, none of the characters displayed anywhere near this level of power in practice, so perhaps we should rate them as their old tiers in practical combat, while also writing "3-A via hax/reality warping unusable for practical combat purposes"?
Click to expand...
This seems like a reasonable middle ground.
 
Neither of them get the scaling due to lack of direct involvement with the entities that do.
 
it doesnt, they dont scale to these upgrades except when jeanne summons sheba.
 
well that answers my question...So is it agreed mthat the upgrades should happen?
 
The Everlasting said:
Neither of them get the scaling due to lack of direct involvement with the entities that do.
Click to expand...
I understand the reasoning, but this just further enhances the bizareness of the upgrade.

I mean, Bayonetta and Jeanne are still presented as being at least somewhat comparable in power, with the later being weaker, but not that much so.
 
well considering that in Bayo 2 the whole mission was to get Jeanne back. This allowed Bayo to get far ahead of Jeanne in power....i think...
 
I'm pretty sure the comparability ceases to exist by the time Bayonetta fights Jubileus, context of tiers or not, considering just how ridiculously powerful Jubileus was in comparison to everyone else in the verse.
 
Honestly, I don't agree with this upgrade, because one, dimension fusing feats are iffy in general (See MK vs DC for example) and it's a huge outlier compared to like every other feat presented in the series.
 
I dunno if you can call it an outlier if it's engrained in the lore itself...
 
How about the middle ground that I suggested earlier, and Azathoth thought was a good idea?
 
Antvasima said:
How about the middle ground that I suggested earlier, and Azathoth thought was a good idea?
Click to expand...

Thing is they'd still be Multi-Galaxy/Universe in durability, and Bayonetta, Rodin, and Balder don't have reality warping.
 
Hmm. Cases such as this are difficult to evaluate, due to that they only demonstrate large planet level attack power in practice. "At least 5-A demonstrated in practical combat. Possibly 3-A via the lore" then?
 
But also keep in mind that there was a chance that Balder and Bayo may have been focusing their power into one point...sort of how DBS handles things.
 
That may be true, I suppose. Fiction recurrently does not make any sense regarding this point.
 
So... what do we do regarding this?

Also, @Ant, it's important to note that it's not only the lore, but the entire plan of the villains of the first game. Why would they phrase it in such a way if they didn't plan on doing it in the first place?
 
Well, I suppose that an upgrade might be in order then. However, given that this is somewhat controversial, given the massive change, I think that we should wait for more staff members to okay it.
 
You can ask for input in their talk pages if you wish.
 
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