• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Status
Not open for further replies.
I noticed that for Yamcha's profile it says that he's planet level due to Gero and 19 mistaking him for Goku, and that it would scale to Goku's peak that Gero would be aware of by Saiyan Saga due to when his data on them stopped. However that is assuming Gero didn't assume Goku wouldn't get any stronger than his previous peak, which given to Goku's long history of constantly reaching new heights that would be a foolish thing for Gero to assume. So I decided to do the math on what a possible Android Saga Goku would look like using only the information Gero would have available at the time.

Goku at the start of Z has a base power level of 416, which in a years time somehow skyrockets to OVER 9,000 over 8,000 (Gero has no info on how Goku got this massive boost, but would likely point it to a new form of training as that is how Goku consistently gets boosts), which gives Gero the data saying Goku can get at least 19.2 times stronger in a years time.

8,000 ÷ 416 = 19.23

Using Kaio-ken Goku's power level in the math would be illogical as nothing would connect that to Goku's base progression unless Gero's bots couldn't tell the difference in transformation

Now that we have Gero's last known progression for Goku, we can figure out how strong the A.I. would believe Goku's power would be by the time the androids attack, which would be in Age 767, 5 years after the Saiyan Saga, however we can say that with each year there would be diminishing results, as there would be no major threats at the time Who the hell is Frieza and King Cold?, so I'll multiply the 19.2 by 5 to resemble the decrease in the yearly power.

19.2 x 5 = 96

8,000 x 96 = 768,000


Which would put Gero's Goku solidly above first form Frieza but vastly below Frieza's 2nd form, which therefore places Yamcha, Krillin, and Tien in the same tier as first form Frieza, being Dwarf Star+ and before you say that it'd make no sense for Gero to believe Goku would get that strong. Not only did Gero plan so hard that he made himself on par with Final Form Frieza, not only did Gero make various back-ups even stronger than himself, and not only did Gero get so paranoid that he made a secret basement with a super computer just in case all the other back-ups failed, but Goku literally obliterates all this math after 6 days in the Namek Saga, and getting a 11.3x boost in 5 of those days. Which makes what looks like a possible gross overestimate into what looks like a massive miscalculation on Gero's part due to not having any info from Namek.

And just for fun let's see what happens when we assume Gero's robots think Kaio-Ken x3 Goku is his base power.

21,000 x 96 =2,016,000

Which is....... ironically close to what Goku had as a base by the end of Namek, also ironically on the ball to what Tien's power level is listed at in Kakarot being "around 2,000,000".
 
Last edited:
I noticed that for Yamcha's profile it says that he's planet level due to Gero and 19 mistaking him for Goku, and that it would scale to Goku's peak that Gero would be aware of by Saiyan Saga due to when his data on them stopped.

Why would it scale to Goku's peak?

Yamcha wasn't exactly in peak fighting power when Gero ambushed him.
 
Why would it scale to Goku's peak?

Yamcha wasn't exactly in peak fighting power when Gero ambushed him.
Actually, no, he was in peak fighting power, at the time all the Z fighters had separated to scout the city to find them, with Yamcha then hearing a scream and running for them. Yamcha was fully ready for them to be there with the androids specifically saying someone with an unusually high power level was approaching, it'd make no sense for Yamcha to not run in at full power (also Gero didn't immediately attack Yamcha, instead suprising him and then allowing Yamcha to enter a battle stance yelling "EVERYONE")

Edit: Also the part you are commenting on is what is currently used for Yamcha's profile, with it actually scaling to kkx3 Goku
 
Last edited:
That's not how power levels work.
Elaborate? Since the math I did quite literally gets outclassed by what happens in series and what Gero ended up upgrading himself to, what I posted is just what would be considered a logical estimate of what Gero would assume Goku's power would be after 5 years, what I have could be lower or higher depending on how you see the whole training diminishing, but regardless Gero clearly took no chances.
 
Because my friend, barring specific sections in the story, power levels are not linear.
A human level farmer has a power level of 5 and moon level Goku has a power level of 416 makes the difference in power between them 83.2x. This is clearly false because the gap between human level and moon level is massive.
 
Because my friend, barring specific sections in the story, power levels are not linear.
A human level farmer has a power level of 5 and moon level Goku has a power level of 416 makes the difference in power between them 83.2x. This is clearly false because the gap between human level and moon level is massive.
That is reverse logic, which is completely different from what my math is, I'm using Goku's increases in power to show what a possible 5 year training would produce at a level Gero would assume, given that even with my 768,000, that'd still be 78x less than 50% Frieza's power, Gero was clearly taking 0 chances when preparing to kill Goku and would have went for the highest numbers he could assume, and then vastly out did it, and with the current number for Yamcha on his page that'd be a 3,333 power level difference, which regardless of interpretation shows Gero is going overboard with his math and trying to guarantee Goku's death.

I'm not saying Yamcha is X tier because he's Y less than Frieza, I'm saying he's X tier due to what Gero would be logically thinking.
 
Because my friend, barring specific sections in the story, power levels are not linear.
A human level farmer has a power level of 5 and moon level Goku has a power level of 416 makes the difference in power between them 83.2x. This is clearly false because the gap between human level and moon level is massive.
They are not arguing PL are linear in energy scaling, but in progression.

As in "It took them 3 years to get from PL 400, to 1200. So another 3 years would have the same effect, making them go from 1200 to 3600"

The point is incorrect because the progression is inconsistent, but you're misrepresenting their point.
 
That is reverse logic, which is completely different from what my math is, I'm using Goku's increases in power to show what a possible 5 year training would produce at a level Gero would assume, given that even with my 768,000, that'd still be 78x less than 50% Frieza's power, Gero was clearly taking 0 chances when preparing to kill Goku and would have went for the highest numbers he could assume, and then vastly out did it, and with the current number for Yamcha on his page that'd be a 3,333 power level difference, which regardless of interpretation shows Gero is going overboard with his math and trying to guarantee Goku's death.

I'm not saying Yamcha is X tier because he's Y less than Frieza, I'm saying he's X tier due to what Gero would be logically thinking.
You're assuming Gero has access to these numbers, acknowledged them, or had any kind sort of algorithm to make this calculation. This is headcanon.
 
They are not arguing PL are linear in energy scaling, but in progression.

As in "It took them 3 years to get from PL 400, to 1200. So another 3 years would have the same effect, making them go from 1200 to 3600"

The point is incorrect because the progression is inconsistent, but you're misrepresenting their point.
I agree that the progression is inconsistent, which is why I didn't multiply by 19.2 for the power level every year, but instead multiplied 19.2 by the number of years, THEN multiplied that result with the original number, if I had multiplied the same every year we'd be reaching bullshit numbers far beyond what Frieza had by year 4.
 
You're assuming Gero has access to these numbers, acknowledged them, or had any kind sort of algorithm to make this calculation. This is headcanon.
No? If you are referring to the Frieza numbers then that was just to point out how absurdly high Gero went with the numbers he DID have (which is quite literally what's used for the current Yamcha page) and then using said numbers to show what he would assume Goku's possible power would be 5 years time, the only headcanon part of it is thinking Gero would be smart enough to think Goku would get stronger in 5 years, which considering he has Extraordinary Genius, it's safe to assume he would be.
 
Goku becoming 19.2 times stronger is wrong because power levels aren't linear. And also what pokemon man said.
I swear to ******* god---
No? If you are referring to the Frieza numbers then that was just to point out how absurdly high Gero went with the numbers he DID have (which is quite literally what's used for the current Yamcha page) and then using said numbers to show what he would assume Goku's possible power would be 5 years time, the only headcanon part of it is thinking Gero would be smart enough to think Goku would get stronger in 5 years, which considering he has Extraordinary Genius, it's safe to assume he would be.
He had no idea about their Power Levels against Raditz, he can't make an assessment based on one value alone.
 
those literally mean the same thing
No? One's saying that the power level increases are 1 for 1 in terms of stats, the other is saying that the increase in the power level is increasing, I'm not saying Yamcha is 78x weaker than 50% Freiza, I'm saying his power level is 78x lower, and I'm not even using those numbers for my argument but First Form Frieza's, which my math is above in numbers
 
He had no idea about their Power Levels against Raditz, he can't make an assessment based on one value alone.
The numbers we are using for Yamcha on his page are already based on Saiyan Saga numbers, Gero was monitoring Goku's every fight until Vegeta, in which case he stopped since he believed he got enough data and didn't continue looking at their growth when Goku went to Namek.
 
I agree, I believe it's fair to assume that gero thought that Goku became much stronger than before, to the point of overtaking his kaioken levels. So yamcha could probably scale to planet level from Gero's calculations.

Is there something amiss?
If you call me Pokemon Man one more time, I will WJVURNVKWIVIWVIAIJFEUSU
 
Now that we have Gero's last known progression for Goku, we can figure out how strong the A.I. would believe Goku's power would be by the time the androids attack
"Even projecting the most extreme rate of improvement for an adult combatant, we know the extent of the power you might conceivably wield."

Gero is very obviously referring to the rate of development for an Earthling rather than Saiyans. Putting aside the fact that calculating the rate of improvement for Saiyans, which would require him to factor in Zenkai Boosts and the Saiyans' rather frustrating ability to break their limits against adversity, would be impossible, he does not have that kind of data.
 
The numbers we are using for Yamcha on his page are already based on Saiyan Saga numbers, Gero was monitoring Goku's every fight until Vegeta, in which case he stopped since he believed he got enough data and didn't continue looking at their growth when Goku went to Namek.
Nope. It doesn't matter if he had Data, he didn't know their POWER LEVELS, the in-canon power reading. His Data was not based on a alien-like power reading algorithm.

We don't even know if his data is linear, rather than a overly complex graph, so your calculation is just baloney.
 
"Even projecting the most extreme rate of improvement for an adult combatant, we know the extent of the power you might conceivably wield."

Gero is very obviously referring to the rate of development for an Earthling rather than Saiyans. Putting aside the fact that calculating the rate of improvement for Saiyans, which would require him to factor in Zenkai Boosts and the Saiyans' rather frustrating ability to break their limits against adversity, would be impossible, he does not have that kind of data.
My math did not include any form of Zenkai or Saiyan biology, just using what Goku HAD shown and what Gero knew due to his observations.
 
I disagree. Power levels aren't portrayed as linear in the slightest regarding the feats that happen in the show.

If anything, then the humans may should get upgraded to High 5-A+ by thinking they can help against the Androids, and do some support even though they know the Androids are stronger than Frieza, meaning their Base levels may be above the Base forms of the Frieza Saga, but even that is iffy
 
Love how they just ignore Gero's own words. Gero didn't take Goku's own progression into account, as that's not measurable, he took the progression of an adult combatant. Bruh
 
Nope. It doesn't matter if he had Data, he didn't know their POWER LEVELS, the in-canon power reading. His Data was not based on a alien-like power reading algorithm.

We don't even know if his data is linear, rather than a overly complex graph, so your calculation is just baloney.
Just something I found on the dragon ball wiki

"Dr. Gero ceases the study of Goku's power when the Saiyan leaves for Namek, believing he had already compiled enough information; so he simply adjusts the androids' power levels to accommodate for Goku's expected power increase, not accounting for the power level of Goku's Super Saiyan form."

With the one source I see in it being a Japanese QnA book on the android saga, which I can't read but regardless the math would still hold out as regardless on thinking if Gero's power levels are the same as Frieza Force, the rate of which Goku is getting stronger would still be the exact same, just translated into whatever Gero is using.
 
I disagree. Power levels aren't portrayed as linear in the slightest regarding the feats that happen in the show.

If anything, then the humans may should get upgraded to High 5-A+ by thinking they can help against the Androids, and do some support even though they know the Androids are stronger than Frieza, meaning their Base levels may be above the Base forms of the Frieza Saga, but even that is iffy
There was a post saying they should be due to Tien dodging Gero's eye blasts, however nothing pointed towards Yamcha or Krillin, so that's basically the math helping the possibility.
 
Love how they just ignore Gero's own words. Gero didn't take Goku's own progression into account, as that's not measurable, he took the progression of an adult combatant. Bruh
Nowhere in that scan does it say Gero isn't taking in Goku's own progression, as Goku is quite literally the most extreme rate and Gero has the data of it, hell that proves my math as Gero is using the extreme rates for his plan.
 
Nowhere in that scan does it say Gero isn't taking in Goku's own progression, as Goku is quite literally the most extreme rate and Gero has the data of it, hell that proves my math as Gero is using the extreme rates for his plan.
"Nowhere it says he isn't",
He doesn't have to state a negative. He stated which kind of progression he was expecting, from an adult combatant, not Goku's.
 
Gero tried to calculate what strength Goku could possibly achieved by the time he'll make the Androids, and adjusted their strength accordingly so Goku wouldn't be able to beat them. That said, we can't assume anything regarding tiers since Gero had no information on anything Goku did past the Saiyan Saga
 
"Nowhere it says he isn't",
He doesn't have to state a negative. He stated which kind of progression he was expecting, from an adult combatant, not Goku's.
So Goku isn't an adult combatant? He's also talking to a base Goku who is currently massively stronger than the math I just did, which Gero would be fully aware of since he has a energy level reader built into him and Goku had already sucker punched him in rage prior to that.
 
Gero tried to calculate what strength Goku could possibly achieved by the time he'll make the Androids, and adjusted their strength accordingly so Goku wouldn't be able to beat them. That said, we can't assume anything regarding tiers since Gero had no information on anything Goku did past the Saiyan Saga
Which is exactly why I only used math from the Saiyan Saga and not anything beyond that.
 
So Goku isn't an adult combatant? He's also talking to a base Goku who is currently massively stronger than the math I just did, which Gero would be fully aware of since he has a energy level reader built into him and Goku had already sucker punched him in raged prior.
Now.

If his research is NOT based on Power Levels.
And he has NO IDEA about how strong a 500,000 is, in terms of energy.
AND his data is complex and does not take huge spike in Energy Levels like PL does.



How is that 5-A+?... The supposed progression of Gero's data isn't comparable to Power Levels, Power Levels are non-linear.
 
Gero has no reason to assume a "Power Level" of 740,000 has High 5-A+ levels of energy, he wouldn't know that Power Levels suddenly had this HUGE spike in power/energy, because it's not the case by the time he ceases the research.
 
Gero also didn't knew the Androids he would make are 4-C+ too. He had no idea how strong Goku is or how they'll actually fare against them

He believed they would always be stronger than them, but he certainly didn't expected SSJ Vegeta killing 19 so easily
 
Now.

If his research is NOT based on Power Levels.
And he has NO IDEA about how strong a 500,000 is, in terms of energy.
AND his data is complex and does not take huge spike in Energy Levels like PL does.



How is that 5-A+?... The supposed progression of Gero's data isn't comparable to Power Levels, Power Levels are non-linear.
Gero has no reason to assume a "Power Level" of 740,000 has High 5-A+ levels of energy, he wouldn't know that Power Levels suddenly had this HUGE spike in power/energy, because it's not the case by the time he ceases the research.
........................ what? I'm saying his math would result in that level, regardless on if you want to say its energy or power level the fact remains that 768,000 would be taking Goku's most extreme rate (unless you apply 19.2 to every year, but even that's too dumb as by year 4 you'd have 1,087,163,596, so naturally the 768,000 would make more sense for most extreme with the training giving less and less each year), you're logic revolves around the idea that Gero wouldn't have any possible way to figure out 5-A+ when his own profile has him as low 4-C, likely 4-C, which means that yes he would have reached that point
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top