Android 18 Universal and Massively FTL Upgrade

[Freedomstar]

18 didn't do any training, and was on par with krillin, her being 3-A makes no sense. Other characters at least have some justification for them being 3-A, albeit i think it's shitty writing why they got so powerful, but it's still a justification nonetheless.

Krillin is not on par with her. She even stated he was still weaker.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

18 didn't do any training, and was on par with krillin, her being 3-A makes no sense. Other characters at least have some justification for them being 3-A, albeit i think it's shitty writing why they got so powerful, but it's still a justification nonetheless.

I agree.

 

[Aeyu]

This "she's on par with Krillin," thing is obviously false. She no-selled an attack that Krillin was having EXTREME difficulty with. Feats > Statements anyway.

As said, I can provide scans.

It's her "power of love," that caused her to power up to be able to fight Ribrianne.

 

[Freedomstar]

This episode was focused on 18 let her have her shine because she hasn't had any in almost 20 something years.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

We are not accepting that power of love bs here. 18 has done no training to warrant such a massive leap in tiers and we aren't gonna accept some fairy tail bs where characters power up to massive degrees by the power of love.

 

[Dziga]

So the Androids have Emphatic Empowerment now? Cuss that makes no sense for self evident reasons.

 

[OishiLover75]

17 nor 18 and everyone else is not even on the same level. That fallacious claim is more so, " well sense 18 isn't 3-A everyone else shouldn't be." No that's not how it works lol. 18 is more along the lines of 3-C or 3-B.

17 literally role played with Rib didn't take her serious. Vegeta and goku mainly fought her base. Hell Vegeta almost eliminated her and Rozie at the same time while being in base.

I guess I could compromise with that.

 

[Aeyu]

Gohan did a tiny amount of training and got equal to SSB. I'm not saying we need to "justify," it, the show did it for us. I'm more saying that the logic doesn't matter when she obviously overpowered a 3-A (amped, btw) character. It would have been different if they had just sparred (the Kid Buu and Krillin thing). She COMPLETELY OVERPOWERED this character after they powered up with the combined force of several other individuals.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Gohan has been training since the Resurrection of F Arc, the only thing that happened was that he gained a huge boost at the end of his training, awakening his inner potential.

18 has been portrayed as slightly above Krillin and fodder to 17 throughout this entire arc.

 

[PridedWaif]

Like I said lol. 18 >> Krillin..., but she ain't no damn universal lol. I say bump her to 3-C at most. It's not like she didn't beat Rib she just got caught in her love hax while being injured.

However, She nowhere near the top 5 of Universe 7 fighters. The diffrence in power is that big. Proven even by piccolo who couldn't even scracth a Base Goku at full power. Piccolo even states when they go ssj pre Tourney they were in their own league. Only 17 and Frieza is up there in power with the 3 saiyans.

No one else.

 

[Aeyu]

What about a compromise? She's obviously higher than what she's currently rated at, but we can't really be sure. I also have problems calling this an outlier when it's pushed so hard in our faces. We can corroborate this claim with A: She no-selled Goku's attack, and B: She was able to beat Ribrianne in both normal and enhanced forms. Therefore, maybe Possibly 3-A would work better?

Also, where was it ever stated that Krillin and 18 were relative with each other? Furthermore, with the logic of them fighting vs Majora, does this mean Goku was in trouble fighting U9?

 

[Peter1129]

What about a compromise? She's obviously higher than what she's currently rated at, but we can't really be sure. I also have problems calling this an outlier when it's pushed so hard in our faces. We can corroborate this claim with A: She no-selled Goku's attack, and B: She was able to beat Ribrianne in both normal and enhanced forms. Therefore, maybe Possibly 3-A would work better?

So basically what I wrote.

Tier: At least High 4-C (Stronger than Krillin) possibly 3-A (Defeated a powered up Ribrianne)

She can be solid 3-A if she gets more feats later on in the tournament.

 

[Freedomstar]

We are not accepting that power of love bs here. 18 has done no training to warrant such a massive leap in tiers and we aren't gonna accept some fairy tail bs where characters power up to massive degrees by the power of love.

We don't know how stronger 18 has gotten. The only time she fought outside this tournament is Beerus, which anyone lost when they helped out. As we can see in the tournament, she has gotten stronger. When 18 defeated Rib it was shown she wasn't fighting at full power.

 

[Aeyu]

@Peter1129

I basically agree with this.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I disagree with solid 3-A, and please don't use the SSB argument. That was a super-super suppressed SSB who only transformed to test Krillin's resolve, in the same episode where suppressed base-Gohan Pre-Training Conclusion was stronger than Krillin.

 

[Freedomstar]

We don't know how stronger 18 has gotten. The only time she fought outside this tournament is Beerus, which anyone lost when they helped out. As we can see in the tournament, she has gotten stronger. When 18 defeated Rib it was shown she wasn't fighting at full power until she was almost defeated.

 

[PridedWaif]

Gohan did a tiny amount of training and got equal to SSB. I'm not saying we need to "justify," it, the show did it for us. I'm more saying that the logic doesn't matter when she obviously overpowered a 3-A (amped, btw) character. It would have been different if they had just sparred (the Kid Buu and Krillin thing). She COMPLETELY OVERPOWERED this character after they powered up with the combined force of several other individuals.

What 3-A character has Ribrianne overpowered? None, literally lol. We aren't justifying anything, it's just nothing supporting 3-A 18. Gohan has a op transformation, he been doing training here and there ever since after ROF Arc. He has some development to his insane boost of power. 18 has nothing lol.

 

[Huesito88]

Lol 3-C would mean she is billions of time stronger than cell yet billions (I know it's bigger way bigger than billions, but it's easier to say that number) of times weaker than universal level. Last I checked no one in dragon ball super/z has a Galaxy level feat or statement that just a random tier to suggest. The closet is the dbz anime (which is non canon and gt) where kid buu is multi-solar system level

 

[Peter1129]

I disagree with solid 3-A, and please don't use the SSB argument. That was a super-super suppressed SSB who only transformed to test Krillin's resolve, in the same episode where suppressed base-Gohan Pre-Training Conclusion was stronger than Krillin.

When did anybody ever say Solid 3-A or even bring up the SSB argument?

 

[Aeyu]

@Matt

What are your thoughts on Possibly 3-A, though?

I'm only arguing for this because it's what the show seems to be trying to hammer home (her punching Ribrianne away feels more outliery, this was bashed into our faces)

 

[PridedWaif]

I Say 3-C possibly 3-B 18. That's my stance on it. Her and piccolo around the same level.

 

[Hi_the_Hello]

Her deflecting SSjB Goku's attack isn't really evidence. Vegeta blasted SP Cell while heavily fatigued and it flinched him. This is something that not even he could do at full power agaisnt base Perfect Cell. And I'm pretty sure the staff agreed that it was just PIS.

 

[Warren_Valion]

I agree with Peter.

 

[Aeyu]

I Say 3-C possibly 3-B 18. That's my stance on it.

No other DBS characters have this rating (apart from Super Shenron, and only due to size) and I doubt they're going to start receiving it anytime soon.

 

[Aeyu]

Her deflecting SSjB Goku's attack isn't really evidence. Vegeta blasted SP Cell while heavily fatigued and it flinched him. This is something that not even he could do at full power agaisnt base Perfect Cell. And I'm pretty sure the staff agreed that it was just PIS.

Even discounting this, where is it ever shown/stated that 18 is relative to Krillin?

 

[RageComment]

18 and Ribrianne are the same tier. They fought evenly and consistently through this episode. In fact 18 overpowered Ribrianne enough to get her to power down. The only argument that could be made is to decrease Ribrianne from 3-A, or increase 18 to 3-A.

 

[Hi_the_Hello]

Even discounting this, where is it ever shown/stated that 18 is relative to Krillin?

The fact that during their spar, Krillin was still able to hold up a little bit. And even in the end, he asked her to hold back, implying that she wasn't. So it's implied. If this isn't evidence, then Gohan or Piccolo shouldn't be universal in because Goku shrugged off two fully charged attacks from them in base.

 

[Aeyu]

Implication versus concrete feats. One doesn't stack up to the other, and calling something a total outlier based on a presumption based on a vague association from a statement is disingenuous.

 

[PridedWaif]

Low 2-C Goku

High 3-A Vegeta

High 3-A Frieza

3-A (Maybe High) Gohan

3-A (Maybe High) 17

High 3-C to 3-B Piccolo

3C to 3-B 18

Human Fighters 4-B

Universe 7 tiers as of now.

 

[Hi_the_Hello]

18 and Ribrianne are the same tier. They fought evenly and consistently through this episode. In fact 18 overpowered Ribrianne enough to get her to power down. The only argument that could be made is to decrease Ribrianne from 3-A, or increase 18 to 3-A.

Or consider it an outlier. Fat Buu overpowered Goku, and he's not 3-A. Roshi fought with Goku and he's not 3-A. Ganos pushed back Goku, and he's not 3-A.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Not the spar. Their fight against Majora and the other guy. Also how they were able to react to each other's Ki Blasts which gradually increased in power as they put more Ki into it.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

Neither Frieza nor Vegeta are High 3-A. I'm not sure where that came from. Gohan and 17 definitely aren't, either. Piccolo is either High 4-C or 3-A. 18 is either High 4-C or 3-A. Most human fighters are High 4-C. @Pride, I'm unsure where these assumptions and infinite highballs came from.

 

[RageComment]

Or consider it an outlier. Fat Buu overpowered Goku, and he's not 3-A. Roshi fought with Goku and he's not 3-A. Ganos pushed back Goku, and he's not 3-A.

None of those scenarios are the same. Goku has been known to hold back and has been shown to do so repeatedly. Ribrianne holding back against 18 would make no sense and has no evidence of it.

 

[PridedWaif]

Power does not have to equate to area of effect.. where do you get that sense of notion. Super Shenron power exceeds that of even the gods which was stated. False equivalance. 18 is at least bare minimum 4-A to 3-C.

 

[Hi_the_Hello]

Implication versus concrete feats. One doesn't stack up to the other, and calling something a total outlier based on a presumption based on a vague association from a statement is disingenuous.

It should be considered an outlier because...

1. 18 has never trained leading up the Universal Recruitment arc.

2. We know that 18 and Krillin have been training together during the arc. And we know that Krillin isn't even comparable pre training base Gohan. Unless it's been stated that 18 went off and did secret training, away from Krillin, it makes no sense.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Stop pulling 3-C, 3-B, High 3-A ratings out of thin air.

 

[Hi_the_Hello]

None of those scenarios are the same. Goku has been known to hold back and has been shown to do so repeatedly. Ribrianne holding back against 18 would make no sense and has no evidence of it.

No where was it confirmed that Goku was holding back agaisnt any of them. For example, in the case with Ganos, what reason would he have for holding back? His soul intention was to have a rematch with Toppo, something he longed for since their previous fight. You can only base it off headcanon, which should be avoided at all cost in a discussion like this.

 

[Ezeriot]

There's no way 18 is universal level. It was presented as a temporary powerup of love, with 18's love towards Krillin surpassing Ribrianne's power of love.

 

[Huesito88]

Lol if that's true she would still get a universal rating even though it was temporary power up it isn't though

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

@Hi the Hello, avoid quoting your own messages. It takes up space in the chat and adds unnecessary messages. If anyone intends to answer your message, they will, just be patient. You only waited two minutes. Thanks in advance.