Ancient Jaeger fights a kaiju (1-0-0)

[Peppersalt43]

Earthshaker : 1
Leatherback : 0
Incon : 0

Low 7-B versions used
Speed equalized
Fight takes place in the place where Leatherback first appeared, 50 meters apart

What is wrong with Earthshaker's speed? How does a thing that big have average human speed? But anyway, here's another Pacific Rim vs Dungeons and Dragons match because I haven't learned from my last mistake

 

[Imaginym]

I haven't checked the AP Values these two scale to. Anyone recall what they are? If not, I can check later.

& yes, the Travel Speed of a 390 meter tall creature being only like, 5 meters per second does seem a little weird.

 

[Peppersalt43]

I haven't checked the AP Values these two scale to. Anyone recall what they are? If not, I can check later.

You were literally there in that one match with the characters of these verses

 

[Imaginym]

You were literally there in that one match with the characters of these verses

Yeah my memory is trash, so I'll probably check that later. Sorry. <//<

 

[Peppersalt43]

Okay then

 

[Peppersalt43]

Well... Bump I guess

 

[Imaginym]

Okay, went & fetched my own post's details. Let's look at the scaling chain.

Spoiler: From Crimson Typhoon Analysis

"& having checked a few profiles, it looks like what most of these mechs & kaiju use as their scaling point is this from Trespasser's profile:
Attack Potency: Large Town level+ (Created a magnitude 7.1 earthquake from its movement along the ocean floor)

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Earthquake_Power_Chart

Magnitude 7

1.995262e+15

476.879063098 Kilotons

Large Town level

Not sure how much a 7.1 exactly should be. Is it just 7 with 10% more? Or do Earthquake Power Levels work differently than that?"

Spoiler: Checking Pacific Rim Kaiju Justifications

Okay, so Leatherback?
Attack Potency: At least Small City level (Easily tore apart Cherno Alpha. Fought Gipsy Danger.)

Gipsy Danger:
At least Small City level (Destroyed Leatherback, cut through Otachi, and bisected Raiju, who are kaiju who should all be vastly superior to Trespasser).
Okay, so that gets us to "should be vastly superior to Trespasser".
Cherno Alpha:
Attack Potency: At least Small City level (Vastly superior to Kaiju such as Trespasser)
Otachi:
Attack Potency: At least Small City level (Destroyed Crimson Typhoon. Dealt heavy damage to Cherno Alpha. Fought Gipsy Danger.)
Raiju:
At least Small City level (At least comparable to Leatherback and Otachi)

....I don't know why they're vastly superior to Trespasser, but apparently, they are?

So Magnitude 7 is 1.995262e+15 joules/476.879063098 Kilotons of TNT, so how much is 7.1? The same value, but with a 70th more added?

476.879063098 divided by 70 = 6.81255804, which added on to 476.879063098 = 483.691621 Kilotons of TNT.

Spoiler: D&D Scaling Chain Analysis

Anyway, what about Earthshaker? It's the Low 7-B versions, so....

Attack Potency: Town level (It falling can generate a magnitude 6 Earthquake. Its energy source can create a 41 kiloton explosion. Stated as being able to wipe out every stronghold in Norwold), possibly Small City level (The typical adventure party that the Earthshaker faces are strong enough to fight an adult dragon)

Durability: Town level, possibly Small City level (Its armor is incredibly resistant to damage )

For Small City Level D&D, the "fight an adult dragon" text links to a calc, with the following evaluation from Therefir:
"Both calcs seems fine to me, I'll go with the High-End in the second calc."
Thus, the relevant yields are:
White Dragon's Winter Wonderland: 4.86 Megatons of TNT, Small City level+

Blue Dragon's Bustling Barrage (High-End): 2.57 Megatons of TNT, Small City level

Unfortunately, I don't know whether Earthshaker's justification about parties that Earthshaker faces fighting adult dragons is concerned with White Dragons or Blue Dragons.

Keep in mind, that's 483.691621 Kilotons of TNT vs 2.57 or 4.86 Megatons of TNT; 1 Megaton of TNT = 1000 Kilotons of TNT, apparently.

So if we put them on the same scale, Earthshaker scales to 2570 kilotons of TNT or 4860 Kilotons of TNT.
& Leatherback scales to fighting Gipsy Danger (So probably comparable?), which destroyed Leatherback (But presumably weaker than?), with Gipsy Danger being vastly superior to Trespasser's roughly 483.691621 Kilotons of TNT.

2570 / 483.691621 = 5.31330271
In other words, if we're using the lower Blue Dragon end, Earthshaker is more than 5.31 times stronger than Leatherback's scaling point that Leatherback should be a little less than vastly superior to for losing a fight, but being roughly comparable to the opponent that beat Leatherback & is vastly superior to said scaling point.

Put simply, Leatherback could be 5 times as strong as high as its scaling point & still be at an AP/Durability disadvantage.

& if we're using the White Dragon end, then Earthshaker is about 10.0477242 times higher than the scaling point.
Slightly less than vastly superior or not, Leatherback is still having difficulty in terms of AP/Striking Strength/Durability.


What about Lifting Strength?
Leatherback:
Lifting Strength: At least Class M (Lifted & tossed Gipsy Danger, which weighs 1980 tons)
Earthshaker:
Lifting Strength: At least Class M (Its legs can support 500,000 tons)

For both of them, are those Metric Tonnes, or US/Short Tons?
& for Earthshaker, can its arms or the rest of its body handle that much? The text in the image linked seems to indirectly explain that it's LS for Lifting the rest of Earthshaker.
Either way, if Earthshaker has even a FRACTION of the Lifting Strength in its arms -Or other parts of it- that its legs appear to have to support the rest of its body, it can probably outlift Leatherback handily.

In terms of abilities....

Leatherback:
Electricity Manipulation and Paralysis Inducement with EMP, Toxic Blood, Large Size (Type 1, nearly Type 2), Hive Mind (Type 2; All Kaiju are telepathically linked to each other and share the memories of their fallen brethren)

IDK in what circumstances it uses these, but I'm unsure if they'd be useful. I haven't read much of Earthshaker, but it seems to use magic & coal & water & springs &... oil? I'm not sure how it runs. It's not organic, so Toxic Blood probably doesn't help, & while Electricity might damage it, I'm not sure an EMP would shut it down.

Earthshaker:
Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Large Size (Type 2; Is 1280 feet tall), Resistance to Magic

Considering Large Size Type 1 means at least 13-14 meters & Leatherback is apparently close to Type 2 Large Size (100 meters.), but 1280 feet is 390.14400 meters.... Well, in this case, Leatherback is the ankle-biter. I dunno if Resistance to Magic &/or Verse Equalization would make Earthshaker resistant to Leatherback's EMP & Toxic Blood, but those MAY be rendered ineffective by how Earthshaker is built (I'm unsure AtM.), even if Earthshaker lacks the plethora of Resistances common to D&D Characters.

Speed....
Leatherback is Subsonic.
Earthshaker is Average Human movement speed. At least Superhuman attack speed

Neither of them have any justifications for their Speed, so I'd assume Baseline? If they are baseline, then it should be noted that Maximum Superhuman Speed is Baseline Subsonic Speed.
Which would mean 34.3 m/s Speed Leatherback, vs Average Human (5 m/s) movement Speed & Superhuman (12.43 m/s) Attack Speed.

Meaning Leatherback would be 2.75945294 times faster than Earthshaker's highest speed, & nearly 7 times faster in movement speed, which might be a problem if it needs to aim.
When you're 2 & 3 quarters faster than your opponent can attack, & almost 7 times faster than they can move, I think it's trivial to take them without taking a hit; A Speed Blitz, & I'm unsure if Leatherback is outclassed by ENOUGH that it'd exhaust its Stamina before it took out Earthshaker in a blitz.

So, anyone input on if Speed should be Equalized?
In theory, the best Earthshaker could do might be to try & swing itself, maybe to throw Leatherback off, considering Earthshaker MIGHT have a colossal LS advantage (Or not, depending on how it works.), but Leatherback is 2.759 times faster, so much easier said than done.


With Speed Equalized, Earthshaker can probably get in enough hits to leverage the AP Advantage; I'm not sure of Leatherback's exact size, but it's probably around 3, 4 or 5 times smaller than Earthshaker, so it should be somewhat manageable to hit it, & even if Leatherback IS slightly less than vastly superior to its scaling point, again, Earthshaker's own scaling point puts it roughly 5.31 to 10.04 stronger than Leatherback's scaling point. (Fighting Gipsy Danger (& losing.) which is vastly superior to Magnitude 7.1 maker Trespasser.)

TL;DR - If Speed were Equalized, I think I would vote Earthshaker (Unless Leatherback's abilities CAN affect & immobilize Earthshaker, but I'm unsure about that.). If Speed were unequalized, then Leatherback probably Speedblitzes.

 

[Peppersalt43]

I don't know why they're vastly superior to Trespasser, but apparently, they are?

Tresspasser is the first Kaiju. In the movies, it is explained that kaijus are made to be stronger than the last in account to the precursors learning from their mistakes.

IDK in what circumstances it uses these, but I'm unsure if they'd be useful.

Not combat applicable in 1v1

So, anyone input on if Speed should be Equalized?

If Speed were Equalized, I think I would vote Earthshaker

I'd rather keep speed equalized. If there's a mistake, @Tllmbrg will probably show up and I have a sneaking suspicion they scale to higher tier speeds. Keep in mind that even the High 8-C, 8-B, and 8-A creatures have Relativistic+ with FTL Reactions

Oh, and vote counted

 

[Imaginym]

Tresspasser is the first Kaiju. In the movies, it is explained that kaijus are made to be stronger than the last in account to the precursors learning from their mistakes.

Oh, okay.

Not combat applicable in 1v1

Why's that?

I'd rather keep speed equalized. If there's a mistake, @Tllmbrg will probably show up and I have a sneaking suspicion they scale to higher tier speeds. Keep in mind that even the High 8-C, 8-B, and 8-A creatures have Relativistic+ with FTL Reactions

Okay, but I don't think you can "keep" Speed Equalized if it isn't Equalized to begin with.

Earthshaker : 1
Leatherback : 0
Incon : 0

Low 7-B versions used
Fight takes place in the place where Leatherback first appeared, 50 meters apart

What is wrong with Earthshaker's speed? How does a thing that big have average human speed? But anyway, here's another Pacific Rim vs Dungeons and Dragons match because I haven't learned from my last mistake

Oh, and vote counted

Okay.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Why's that?

Because they it's their way of communicating. With another Kaiju, they can probably coordinate specific plans but if they're alone, they can't really talk to anyone

Okay, but I don't think you can "keep" Speed Equalized if it isn't Equalized to begin with.

I just need to make sure the "speed equalized" words are still in the OP and we'll be fine... Shoot, I forgot. Hang on

 

[Imaginym]

Because they it's their way of communicating. With another Kaiju, they can probably coordinate specific plans but if they're alone, they can't really talk to anyone

Kaiju use their Electricity Manipulation/Paralysis Inducement via EMPs to... communicate with other Kaijus?

 

[Peppersalt43]

Kaiju use their Electricity Manipulation/Paralysis Inducement via EMPs to... communicate with other Kaijus?

Oh I was referring to Hive Mind. All of that is combat applicable. Sorry

 

[Imaginym]

Oh I was referring to Hive Mind. All of that is combat applicable. Sorry

Oh okay.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Anyway, bump

 

[Mr. Bambu]

This is probably not a good thread to get finished tbh.

 

[Peppersalt43]

This is probably not a good thread to get finished tbh.

Darn. Though while you're at it, someone should also fix Earthshaker's speed. You know, average human somehow?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Aye, I'll bring it up. The CRT won't occur til I dig through the scans for Alphatian Mechs anyways.

 

[Mariogoods]

I vote to Earthstaker FRA. The speed revision does not affect the matchup since speed is equalized.

 

[Peppersalt43]

I vote to Earthstaker FRA. The speed revision does not affect the matchup since speed is equalized.

The AP Revision does though

This is probably not a good thread to get finished tbh.

 

[Mariogoods]

The AP Revision does though

Well... then... does it affect the result?

 

[Peppersalt43]

Well... then... does it affect the result?

High 6-A against Low 7-B. Obviously it does

 

[Mariogoods]

High 6-A against Low 7-B. Obviously it does

Well... then it seems that this thread can be closed then.

 

[Qawsedf234]

To answer some questions

Unfortunately, I don't know whether Earthshaker's justification about parties that Earthshaker faces fighting adult dragons is concerned with White Dragons or Blue Dragons

To clarify sorry if the page can be a bit hard to read. It was one of the first ones I made and I didn't explain my reasoning super well.

In context either Dragon would be fine for the Earthshaker. The scaling exists because there was sticker CR stuff at the time. The party itself is noted as being unable to scratch the Earthshaker's armor and it one shots any PC that gets hit by it.

For both of them, are those Metric Tonnes, or US/Short Tons?

The Earthshaker is in US tons from the context fo the story, which only ever used the US measurement system.

It's arms can lift the machine back in place if it tips over. So it can at least lift a percentage of its total body weight.

& yes, the Travel Speed of a 390 meter tall creature being only like, 5 meters per second does seem a little weird.

How does a thing that big have average human speed?

From memory it's speed comes from the adventure novel giving an exact number for its speed that was pretty low.

However I don't know if that's the Robot's true speed because at the time it was operating on a corrupted AI gem and only had a crew of like five dudes (plus at this point the Gnomes had to replace a lot of the original Blackmoor tech with other stuff which is why it looks so much less advanced that the original stuff seen in City of of Gods). Iirc it's walking speed was described as basically it taking one step them stopping for a bit.

After you stop the evil dudes the Gnomes use Earthshaker dig a giant cannel through the country to appease the king for example. Since it only took a few days or maybe a week it does imply with a full crew the Earthshaker moves much faster.

It's punching speed is superhuman based on its stomps and punches being able to tag horses at full gallop