Analytical Prediction Scaling for Dragonball

[ArmBill]

As it is commonly known, Goku was able to predict the actions of Hit in his time skip. There has been a plethora of people who had analogous Stats or were weaker and were able to keep up with Goku in combat afterwards. If they didn't have analytical fighting capability on par or higher than Goku, then Goku would've overcame them in combat easily, by predicting all their moves.

The current profiles that have it should also state they have the analytical fighting capability to predict the actions while someone is time skipping, as that seems pretty important to note.

If most people agree I'll start listing the profiles that need to be updated here.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

No, stop.
Goku had to go out of his way to attempt to predict and counter Hit; he is not autonomously predicting his opponents' movements.

 

[ArmBill]

No, stop.
Goku had to go out of his way to attempt to predict and counter Hit; he is not autonomously predicting his opponents' movements.

Apart of fighting in general is predicting an opponents moves and counterattacking. Goku predicting the actions within a time skip where he can't even see the movements for the prediction is a very good analytical fighting feat. That analytical capability would most definitely carry over in regular fighting where he has much more cues to make a prediction

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Goku predicting the actions within a time skip where he can't even see the movements for the prediction is a very good analytical fighting feat.

Goku: "Isn't 0.1 seconds the limit of your Time-Leap? I quickly predict how your movements will be after 0.1 seconds of time."

Hit: "You revealed your secret to me. So, now I can move in a different, unpredictable way."
Goku: "No. To change your natural reaction in short amount of time is not that easy."

0.1秒時間を止めて攻撃をする”時とばし”に、悟空は、0.1秒後の動きを予測して見事に反撃！
When Hit attacks after stopping time for 0.1 second with his Time-Skip ability, Goku predicts what he will do 0.1 second later and successfully fights back!

Goku cannot and did not predict Hit's movements while he skipped time. Goku preemptively estimated where Hit would land 0.1 seconds into the future by analyzing his fighting styles and his overall behavior (the "natural reaction" thing) and struck first once his Time-Skip was up. He does not have the ability to think and process information about a person who is skipping through time.

Apart of fighting in general is predicting an opponents moves and counterattacking

An even bigger part of fighting is throwing punches, especially when:

A - You are much stronger than your opponent.​

B - You are much faster than your opponent.​

C - You have no reason to attempt to use up your brain's processing power trying to both throw punches and predict your opponent's movements.​

Aside from that, Goku never displays this level of Analytical Prediction Precognition ever again, so there is even more reason not to give it to everybody that Goku has ever fought afterwards, including random cronies from the Tournament of Power and Brianne de Chateau.

If they didn't have analytical fighting capability on par or higher than Goku, then Goku would've overcame them in combat easily, by predicting all their moves.

I don't know why I skipped over this in my initial post—no.
What, are they predicting Goku's prediction of their movements? Is it a Battle of the Predictions?

 

[Vietthai96]

No, no just no, this is wrong on many level. Someone doesn't need to overcome his/her opponent analytical skill to win the fight, this is not a hax vs hax, you can just be strong enough and fast enough to make their analytical skill become obsolete. No matter how insane your prediction skill, you still helpless when vs someone who can oneshot and blitz you

 

[ArmBill]

Goku cannot and did not predict Hit's movements while he skipped time. Goku preemptively estimated where Hit would land 0.1 seconds into the future by analyzing his fighting styles and his overall behavior (the "natural reaction" thing) and struck first once his Time-Skip was up. He does not have the ability to think and process information about a person who is skipping through time.

But he clearly did since he predicted his actions in the time skip and counter attacked. Thats still analytically predicting it.This only became obsolete once hit attacked goku in the time skip

An even bigger part of fighting is throwing punches, especially when:

A - You are much stronger than your opponent.​

B - You are much faster than your opponent.​

C - You have no reason to attempt to use up your brain's processing power trying to both throw punches and predict your opponent's movements.​

.

As I said people who are equal or weaker in power and speed this applies to. If someone is analogous in stats the only thing you have is skill. Goku was able to predict these moves and has the mental processing power to handle high speeds.

Aside from that, Goku never displays this level of Analytical Prediction Precognition ever again, so there is even more reason not to give it to everybody that Goku has ever fought afterwards, including random cronies from the Tournament of Power and Brianne de Chateau.

We only see people fighting each other normally. So you can't really get a feat like this again, esspessily since hit attacks in the time skip now.

I don't know why I skipped over this in my initial post—no.
What, are they predicting Goku's prediction of their movements? Is it a Battle of the Predictions?

That is how fighting works even on lower levels. In mma for example they're trying to counter and predict their movements.

No, no just no, this is wrong on many level. Someone doesn't need to overcome his/her opponent analytical skill to win the fight, this is not a hax vs hax, you can just be strong enough and fast enough to make their analytical skill become obsolete. No matter how insane your prediction skill, you still helpless when vs someone who can oneshot and blitz you

Did you even read what I wrote in op???? People he fought with equal stats or weaker should get this.

 

[Vietthai96]

Did even read what I wrote in op???? People he fought with equal stats or weaker should get this.

No, can you prove in an instant that he use analytical prediction all of the time, just they can fight equally with him doesn't mean they should get it, you need to prove that those character actually best Goku in prediction department, not just because they fight him equally in power and speed

 

[ArmBill]

No, can you prove in an instant that he use analytical prediction all of the time, just they can fight equally with him doesn't mean they should get it, you need to prove that those character actually best Goku in prediction department, not just because they fight him equally in power and speed

Do you understand fighting? When it comes to hand the hand combat the point of is to hit your opponent and not get hit. This is done by predicting and counterattacking, even in the real world such as mma this is done. These characters have atleast mftl+ reactions to perceive and counterattack. When goku was counterattack hit and predicting his movements it was in a quick battle, akin to his other fights. His fighting analytical ability feats have no reason to not carry over.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

we're gonna be adding analytical prediction to a lot of verses now

 

[Vietthai96]

Then Analytical should be in every fighting verse, hell even Conan should have it

 

[ArmBill]

we're gonna be adding analytical prediction to a lot of verses now

Then Analytical should be in every fighting verse, hell even Conan should have it

That's fine imo. They should just clarify on the pages what feat they can perform. Like goku predicting the actions within a Time Skip.

 

[Vietthai96]

That's fine imo. They should just clarify on the pages what feat they can perform. Like goku predicting the actions within a Time Skip.

Literally, no, Goku have Analytical Prediction because he can predict a strike that literally come from the future, which is a psuedo precognition via scientific mean, that it, it is his only feat of prediction, all other fighter doesn't display the same ability for him to predict, so he never use it again. Just because you good at martial art and can predict other move doesn't mean you will get Analytical Prediction, it is normal for every martial artist to do that, it will be listed in Intelligence section

Actually only Jiren can have it because he counter all of Hit strike

 

[ArmBill]

Literally, no, Goku have Analytical Prediction because he can predict a strike that literally come from the future, which is a psuedo precognition via scientific mean, that it, it is his only feat of prediction, all other fighter doesn't display the same ability for him to predict, so he never use it again. Just because you good at martial art and can predict other move doesn't mean you will get Analytical Prediction, it is normal for every martial artist to do that, it will be listed in Intelligence section

Actually only Jiren can have it because he counter all of Hit strike

Well if it's just some normal human level predictions than it's fine its left off. Akin to why you wouldn't put regeneration on them. However, since this a decently impressive analytical precognition feat, it should be noted.

Even you think it should be in the intelligence section. But what does this feat propgate? His fighting analytical ability. Which applies to actions overall. If he can predict someone time skipping, which has really no cues for him to make a prediction. Then a regular fight where there's way more cues, would be easier for him. But since people simular to his level can fight on par with him, it would mean their analytical prediction skill on a similar level. Since goku can't counter them easily.

 

[Vietthai96]

Well if it's just some normal human level predictions than it's fine its left off. Akin to why you wouldn't put regeneration on them. However, since this a decently impressive analytical precognition feat, it should be noted.

Even you think it should be in the intelligence section. But what does this feat propgate? His fighting analytical ability. Which applies to actions overall. If he can predict someone time skipping, which has really no cues for him to make a prediction. Then a regular fight where there's way more cues, would be easier for him. But since people simular to his level can fight on par with him, it would mean their analytical prediction skill on a similar level. Since goku can't counter them easily.

Only Goku have and possibly Jiren, because they predict a hax that allow user to strike in the future, literally Goku predict the future that why he have, predcit some martial art move in a fight will not grant this ability, do you even know why Analytical Prediction was linked to Precognition page???

 

[ArmBill]

Only Goku have and possibly Jiren, because they predict a hax that allow user to strike in the future, literally Goku predict the future that why he have, predcit some martial art move in a fight will not grant this ability, do you even know why Analytical Prediction was linked to Precognition page???

Those feats show that their analytical precognition is on that level though. Predicting someone Time Skipping is a feat way above any normal human level predictions. Someone predicting goku's moves in a fight and fighting on par with him would indeed scale. Goku's fighting intelligence is fomented throughout all his actions. Since prediction is a core part of martial arts it will be applied there. It's an intelligentence feat for the person fighting on par with goku, since they can counter attack someone who can predict actions through a time skip.

 

[Cosmic_King_of_SAO]

@ArmBill

Basically, what you're saying is that characters that are equal or weaker than Goku should gain this ability just because they fought Goku?

The fights in Dragon Ball are too close quarters for there to be any room for prediction and most of the time is just them reacting to what the opponent is doing. (You can argue energy blasts and what not but that's not martial arts.)

The term "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face" I think should be used here. If you continuously try to predict your opponents attacks, especially in a real fight, you will get punched since you'd be to preoccupied from trying to predict them.

Analytical Prediction isn't trying to predict an attack but rather actually predicting it.

Reacting to attacks would take precedence in a fight than trying to predict them since your opponent would definitely not give you time to think about what they're going to do.

 

[ArmBill]

@ArmBill

Basically, what you're saying is that characters that are equal or weaker than Goku should gain this ability just because they fought Goku?

They also must fought on par with Goku and after His fight with Hit, since that's when he showed the feat.

The fights in Dragon Ball are too close quarters for there to be any room for prediction and most of the time is just them reacting to what the opponent is doing. (You can argue energy blasts and what not but that's not martial arts.)

When Goku predicted Hit's time skip it was just a close quarters fight but Hit was using the time skip. If Goku can predict in that situation than the others would be no problem.

The term "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face" I think should be used here. If you continuously try to predict your opponents attacks, especially in a real fight, you will get punched since you'd be to preoccupied from trying to predict them.

In the Hit fight, Goku was getting beat around at first but still managed to predict Hits attacks in a high intensity moment.

Analytical Prediction isn't trying to predict an attack but rather actually predicting it.

Anyone who counterattacked Goku would fall under this though. Since they predicted his attack.

Reacting to attacks would take precedence in a fight than trying to predict them since your opponent would definitely not give you time to think about what they're going to do.

Reacting to a attack successfully is still predicting it. But nevertheless, my previous statements apply to this.

 

[Cosmic_King_of_SAO]

They also must fought on par with Goku and after His fight with Hit, since that's when he showed the feat.

When Goku predicted Hit's time skip it was just a close quarters fight but Hit was using the time skip. If Goku can predict in that situation than the others would be no problem.

In the Hit fight, Goku was getting beat around at first but still managed to predict Hits attacks in a high intensity moment.

Anyone who counterattacked Goku would fall under this though. Since they predicted his attack.

Reacting to a attack successfully is still predicting it. But nevertheless, my previous statements apply to this.

Ok.

No, Vegeta fought Hit and was not able to predict his attacks which makes it clear that not all fighters try to predict their opponents attacks. Though, you could argue that's because he didn't know the nature of time skip.

That's because he was given time to analyze Hit's fighting style and demeanor. Which is why analytical prediction has analytical in it since you still need to analyze your opponent. If you can't analyze their fighting style then you won't be able to predict them.

They would not need to predict an attack to counterattack it. If that was the case a lot of characters in fiction would lose due to this. (You don't need to predict for something to happen for you to counter it, is basically what I'm saying in this paragraph.)

No, it's not. It's possible they could perceive it coming and other factors involving the fight. Just because they can trade blows with him doesn't mean that they should gain this ability.

 

[ArmBill]

Ok.

No, Vegeta fought Hit and was not able to predict his attacks which makes it clear that not all fighters try to predict their opponents attacks. Though, you could argue that's because he didn't know the nature of time skip.

Yeah. It's hard to predict something you're not aware of. They found out what he was doing after.

That's because he was given time to analyze Hit's fighting style and demeanor. Which is why analytical prediction has analytical in it since you still need to analyze your opponent. If you can't analyze their fighting style then you won't be able to predict them.

He still analyzed him and thought of how to counter, after taking a few hits from him and fighting him. Therefore, he would be able analyze very quickly in other fights as well.

They would not need to predict an attack to counterattack it. If that was the case a lot of characters in fiction would lose due to this. (You don't need to predict for something to happen for you to counter it, is basically what I'm saying in this paragraph.)


No, it's not. It's possible they could perceive it coming and other factors involving the fight. Just because they can trade blows with him doesn't mean that they should gain this ability.

Predict "say or estimate that (a specified thing) will happen in the future or will be a consequence of something.". If you react and dodge, counter attack, etc an attack that literally falls under predicting it happens. In Goku's case he had no cues to predict Hit while in a regular fight he has way more to make a prediction. Making it far more impressive he countered Hits actions in the Time Skip.

When you have simular stats and are just throwing hands, the only factors are your skill in that department. By defintion others are predicting Goku to counter, dodge, etc. So since they can do that someone with the Battle intelligence to predict and counter a time skip, they would scale.

 

[Cosmic_King_of_SAO]

Yeah. It's hard to predict something you're not aware of. They found out what he was doing after.

He still analyzed him and thought of how to counter, after taking a few hits from him and fighting him. Therefore, he would be able analyze very quickly in other fights as well.

Predict "say or estimate that (a specified thing) will happen in the future or will be a consequence of something.". If you react and dodge, counter attack, etc an attack that literally falls under predicting it happens. In Goku's case he had no cues to predict Hit while in a regular fight he has way more to make a prediction. Making it far more impressive he countered Hits actions in the Time Skip.

When you have simular stats and are just throwing hands, the only factors are your skill in that department. By defintion others are predicting Goku to counter, dodge, etc. So since they can do that someone with the Battle intelligence to predict and counter a time skip, they would scale.

Ok

Exactly, so why should we assume that the characters that are equal or weaker than him analyze him during a fight as well?

To counterattack in a fight you don't need to predict that an attack is coming. You just need to perceive that it is and react accordingly.

I see, your point. However, that would only apply to characters on the same skill level as well not only in stats. Amateurs wouldn't be able to gain this ability.

 

[Vietthai96]

Analytical Prediction is a Psuedo Precognition, that mean the user literally predict the future, but through scientific, intellectual mean rather than by supernatural power or hax. Predicting some martial art move during fight will not gain this

 

[ArmBill]

Ok

Exactly, so why should we assume that the characters that are equal or weaker than him analyze him during a fight as well?

To counterattack in a fight you don't need to predict that an attack is coming. You just need to perceive that it is and react accordingly.

I see, your point. However, that would only apply to characters on the same skill level as well not only in stats. Amateurs wouldn't be able to gain this ability.

It literally goes under the definition of predict. If an attack is coming your way and you dodge it correctly than you analytically predicted their move. It's just there's different levels of analytical prediction, such as normal human level or predicting a time skip.

When it comes to analogous Stats, one way you can tell their on a skill level is if they can actually fight back, counter, react, get hits in, etc. If someone is truly an Amateur in skill then they wouldn't be capable of that.

Analytical Prediction is a Psuedo Precognition, that mean the user literally predict the future, but through scientific, intellectual mean rather than by supernatural power or hax. Predicting some martial art move during fight will not gain this

Ik it's through analytics. By defintion even like mma fighters are analytical predicting . However Dragonball's skill is on a different level and worth noting. As I said, the defintion proves my point for fighting. Delinate why it wouldn't apply.

 

[Cosmic_King_of_SAO]

It literally goes under the definition of predict. If an attack is coming your way and you dodge it correctly than you analytically predicted their move. It's just there's different levels of analytical prediction, such as normal human level or predicting a time skip.

No, if you see that an attack is coming your way you're no longer predicting it, you're just dodging and reacting at that point. If you predict something then it shouldn't be coming to you in the first place and you have to anticipate what attack is going to happen.

 

[ArmBill]

No, if you see that an attack is coming your way you're no longer predicting it, you're just dodging and reacting at that point. If you predict something then it shouldn't be coming to you in the first place and you have to anticipate what attack is going to happen.

Yeah.

Predict on Google "say or estimate that (a specified thing) will happen in the future or will be a consequence of something." If you see something coming and dodge it's still predicting. My point is that predicting a time skip attack which is much harder than predicting a regular attack. Would mean someone predicting and reacting to goku would be far more impressive, since he more cues to go off of.

 

[Cosmic_King_of_SAO]

Predict on Google "say or estimate that (a specified thing) will happen in the future or will be a consequence of something." If you see something coming and dodge it's still predicting. My point is that predicting a time skip attack which is much harder than predicting a regular attack. Would mean someone predicting and reacting to goku would be far more impressive, since he more cues to go off of.

Exactly, "estimate" if it's already coming your way, what is there to estimate? You don't need to predict to react. If you see something coming that's not predicting cause you're opponent is already doing it. To predict you need to not see it already coming. Which is why Goku predicted Hit's time skip cause he couldn't see it coming.

Yes, but there is no evidence that Goku always tries to predict his opponents attacks. Hit is a special case along with his more powerful opponents.

 

[ArmBill]

Exactly, "estimate" if it's already coming your way, what is there to estimate? You don't need to predict to react. If you see something coming that's not predicting cause you're opponent is already doing it. To predict you need to not see it already coming. Which is why Goku predicted Hit's time skip cause he couldn't see it coming.

Yes, but there is no evidence that Goku always tries to predict his opponents attacks. Hit is a special case along with his more powerful opponents.

Even if someone looks like their about to throw a punch they still haven't thrown it. That cue is an estimate that it will happen, which is what predict means.

Since predicting is a natural part of fighting, Goku is indeed using prediction. It fits the definition exactly.

 

[Cosmic_King_of_SAO]

Even if someone looks like their about to throw a punch they still haven't thrown it. That cue is an estimate that it will happen, which is what predict means.

Since predicting is a natural part of fighting, Goku is indeed using prediction. It fits the definition exactly.

But if the punch is already coming your way, what is there to estimate? Sure, if it's still not coming then you can still estimate it but you don't need to if it's already coming and you can see it coming. Seeing something coming your way isn't the same as predicting that it will.

That is too much of an assumption. That would mean whenever I got into a fight I tried to predict my opponents attacks when I never did.

There are also other factors when it comes to reacting such as muscle memory. Once you've gotten used to fighting you wouldn't need to predict something you just react accordingly.

Also gaining this ability just because someone fought Goku is too vague without supporting evidence.

 

[ArmBill]

But if the punch is already coming your way, what is there to estimate? Sure, if it's still not coming then you can still estimate it but you don't need to if it's already coming and you can see it coming. Seeing something coming your way isn't the same as predicting that it will.

That is too much of an assumption. That would mean whenever I got into a fight I tried to predict my opponents attacks when I never did.

There are also other factors when it comes to reacting such as muscle memory. Once you've gotten used to fighting you wouldn't need to predict something you just react accordingly.

Also gaining this ability just because someone fought Goku is too vague without supporting evidence.

But if you estimate successfully that means you predict it successfully even if you don't put to much thought into it. Muscle memory can only get you so far unless you have like ultra instinct, they still think to process these attack and strategies. It's not vague at all, it's akin to someone doing mario vs mario in smash, but the best player wins due to they're skill at the game. I already shown predicting definition is propagated by what their doing. Corroborate why this isn't the case. Fighting cues go into prediction all the time or even other predictions. You don't need it be like the time skip example where there isn't many cues.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think NullflowerBlush makes sense here.

 

[Vietthai96]

Like i saod before, the reason for Goku's Analytical Prediction he because he predict future event through intellectual mean, it is like Precognition which allow you to literally see future, and you can't normal see what future hold for you as you literally can't physically see future. That why Goku have this abilities as he predict the future where Hit would strike and Hit literally "forward" himself in future. It is way more insane than predicting some martial art move

 

[ArmBill]

Like i saod before, the reason for Goku's Analytical Prediction he because he predict future event through intellectual mean, it is like Precognition which allow you to literally see future, and you can't normal see what future hold for you as you literally can't physically see future. That why Goku have this abilities as he predict the future where Hit would strike and Hit literally "forward" himself in future. It is way more insane than predicting some martial art move

However, since it's analytical its an intelligentence feat, not an exclusive random ability he has. It can scale to fighting iq in the verse. As he uses it in a quick fights he can use it a regular fight such as just cqc. Regular fight have way more cues to predict a move, the time skip dosen't, one is way easier, aka the cqc fights. Which makes it insanely more impressive that people keep up with him. Since he has no problem making those insane predictions in quick fights, as hit was doing the fast cqc and time skip during their fight.