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Alright so should Bloom be upgraded to 2-B??? Most of the mods in this thread seem to agree on the upgrade.
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An possible 2-C to 2-B to 2-A Winx Club
- Thread starter The_2nd_Existential_Seed
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- bloom (winx club)
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Like said, I believe it should. Most of the mods agree, the wikia provides more than enough proof, supported by the episodes. Not to mention what was said is actually a low-end. Yeah... 2-B is plausible. In fact, I myself could do the upgrades myself if allowed to.
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Wait is Bloom's page locked??? Because i cant see the changes.
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Can I make the changes?
Ik this isn't my thread but there is stuff I need to add to her page that got accepted above so I figure I should do the tier revisions too if there's no problem.
Ik this isn't my thread but there is stuff I need to add to her page that got accepted above so I figure I should do the tier revisions too if there's no problem.
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Well I revised Haruka from Noein's Profile and that wasn't my thread. And I din't recieve a warning. So I think you're good to go. I think that the mods will agree.
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Kukui... I have no problem with you doing it as well. As long as the mods agree , you can apply the changes ^^
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It would also be great to know in which episode(s) of season 6 the 2-B feats take place. So the mods can check them out.
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Okay.
@Seed
Just to clarify I'm linking episodes that explain what the Legendarium is, who created it, etc. right?
@Seed
Just to clarify I'm linking episodes that explain what the Legendarium is, who created it, etc. right?
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Pretty much I think.
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Yeah. Whay Julian said.
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Hmm. Well as far as just what the Legendarium is, there are many episodes in S6 that repeatedly give us that information. So I'll give you the link to episode 1, which states it- https://youtu.be/fbLv-9EX098
Skip to 10:02. Here Selina tells Griffin, Prinicpal of the witch school Cloud Tower, that the legendarium is a book that contains all the myths, stories and legends of all the worlds and that she has the power to bring those stories into reality by simply reading them outloud.
Skip to 10:02. Here Selina tells Griffin, Prinicpal of the witch school Cloud Tower, that the legendarium is a book that contains all the myths, stories and legends of all the worlds and that she has the power to bring those stories into reality by simply reading them outloud.
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^ That should be more than enough my friend. Nice job, Kukui.
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Hey question:How would Bloom scale to the Legendarium feat??? I'm not to familiar with the series.
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An couple of things : Achereon was heavily implied to be far weaker than base Dragon Flame ( an portion of her flame was required to free him , plus an statement from S6 stated his massive inferiority ) , she only used her far stronger transformations because she could only enter the Legendarium using it , her battle with him was only a diversion to trap him ( In comparison, the Winx wanted to kill their greatest enemies from the get go in order to make sure the Magic Dimension was saved . They wanted to seal him well before the fight began ) , plus the magic he stole would be lost if they killed him directly ( They mentioned it also in S6 . Which implied that even during the confrontation, she was massively holding back ) . All of this indicates he is massively weaker than even Base Bloom, and EVERY main villian up to date .
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I wouldn't say EVERY villian. I'm fairly certain Acheron is stronger than the likes of Tritannus or the Wizards of the Black Circle AP wise tho that's debatable and this isn't the thread for it.
Anyways, it's as Seed said pretty much. Firstly, the dragon flame is literally the most powerful source of power in the Winx verse, it's THE source of the magic universe itself. There's nothing in the verse that's factually and consistently superior to it (Icy did state that the beast of the depths was stronger than the D.F. but it's extremely doubtful and one should wonder if her word is even hyperbolic, taken with a grain of salt at best). So no matter how strong someone in winx is, the flame would pretty much just flat out be superior in power.
Secondly, Acheron back then was just a normal wizard who created the legendarium as a way to become the strongest wizard in the verse (and he couldnt even do that since he couldnt control the legendarium, thats why he got sealed.) If he were anywhere near the flames power he wouldnt have needed a mere spark to break the seal. A spark so little Bloom didnt even notice Selena took it.
Thirdly, the fact the legendarium itself and Acheron failed to wipe out the dragon flames power (both blooms and the small pieces the other winx have) when they tried wiping out the magic dimensions power suggests again the dragon flame is far superior to them.
So with these reasons and Seeds, at this point, its obvious Bloom scales higher. And that goes for the rest of the winx whenever they get profiles here too.
Anyways, it's as Seed said pretty much. Firstly, the dragon flame is literally the most powerful source of power in the Winx verse, it's THE source of the magic universe itself. There's nothing in the verse that's factually and consistently superior to it (Icy did state that the beast of the depths was stronger than the D.F. but it's extremely doubtful and one should wonder if her word is even hyperbolic, taken with a grain of salt at best). So no matter how strong someone in winx is, the flame would pretty much just flat out be superior in power.
Secondly, Acheron back then was just a normal wizard who created the legendarium as a way to become the strongest wizard in the verse (and he couldnt even do that since he couldnt control the legendarium, thats why he got sealed.) If he were anywhere near the flames power he wouldnt have needed a mere spark to break the seal. A spark so little Bloom didnt even notice Selena took it.
Thirdly, the fact the legendarium itself and Acheron failed to wipe out the dragon flames power (both blooms and the small pieces the other winx have) when they tried wiping out the magic dimensions power suggests again the dragon flame is far superior to them.
So with these reasons and Seeds, at this point, its obvious Bloom scales higher. And that goes for the rest of the winx whenever they get profiles here too.
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Acheron is not one of the weaker villains in Winx. I feel the need to remind that the reason Acheron was not able to wipe the Dragon Flame was specifically cited to be its inexhaustibility. However you wish to interpret the claim, what is certain is that it has nothing to do with its power.
Acheron being freed by a piece of the Dragon's Flame is also not indicative of his power relative to it. It is established by statements and feats that once sealed, one cannot free himself from the Legendarium without aid from someone on the outside. Multiple times in season 6, we have heard the characters worrying of staying in too long because they wouldn't be able to escape otherwise. This was a worry that Bloom had as well despite the fact that she has the Dragon's Flame as well.
Many of these claims lie on the assumption that because the Dragon's Flame was used to create the universe, it cannot be matched or surpassed by anything, which is fallacious and contradicted by statements and feats within the show itself. To suggest that Valtor and Darkar can defeat Acheron or a wizard from the Black Circle is worrying and I would say an unwillingness to acknowledge Winx's various retcons and power creep.
This feat, if accepted, should only apply in full to a select few characters, and this is not including Valtor and such as I worry that this is where it may be heading.
Acheron being freed by a piece of the Dragon's Flame is also not indicative of his power relative to it. It is established by statements and feats that once sealed, one cannot free himself from the Legendarium without aid from someone on the outside. Multiple times in season 6, we have heard the characters worrying of staying in too long because they wouldn't be able to escape otherwise. This was a worry that Bloom had as well despite the fact that she has the Dragon's Flame as well.
Many of these claims lie on the assumption that because the Dragon's Flame was used to create the universe, it cannot be matched or surpassed by anything, which is fallacious and contradicted by statements and feats within the show itself. To suggest that Valtor and Darkar can defeat Acheron or a wizard from the Black Circle is worrying and I would say an unwillingness to acknowledge Winx's various retcons and power creep.
This feat, if accepted, should only apply in full to a select few characters, and this is not including Valtor and such as I worry that this is where it may be heading.
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As far as the second part goes, that is not the reason Acheron got trapped. Yes it's true that if you remain too long inside the Legendarium world you will remain trapped forever but the reason why Acheron got trapped in the first place is because he couldn't control it's power upon creating it and it trapped him inside. Also this claim isn't even completely true actually. From what the Winx wikia says, a strong enough source of power is able to free someone from the legendarium and considering the trix got out and came back in S7 despite being trapped in the book, this is the truth. No one from the outside could do it since the book got permanently locked up. If Acherons power again was anywhere near the flames he shouldve has no problem breaking out of a dimension he himself created no?
What feats? There isnt anything that suggests the dragon flame is weaker than comparable opponents. It is because of Blooms inexperience and the limits of the fairy transformations that make her beatable. Its why she and her friends needed, for example, Believix to beat the wizards when Enchantix power was nigh useless despite Blooms dragon flame (and Bloom had an incomplete enchantix so she never even got all of her enchantix abilities). Or Sirenix because Believix abilities are weakened alot in water.
IIRC isnt Darkar just a dark version of the Great Dragon and not actually from it? I dont remember him having the dragon flames power. However Valtor is a diff matter. AP wise he can be stronger but still might not beat Acheron because of him having lesser hax? And PIS is a possibility as well.
What feats? There isnt anything that suggests the dragon flame is weaker than comparable opponents. It is because of Blooms inexperience and the limits of the fairy transformations that make her beatable. Its why she and her friends needed, for example, Believix to beat the wizards when Enchantix power was nigh useless despite Blooms dragon flame (and Bloom had an incomplete enchantix so she never even got all of her enchantix abilities). Or Sirenix because Believix abilities are weakened alot in water.
IIRC isnt Darkar just a dark version of the Great Dragon and not actually from it? I dont remember him having the dragon flames power. However Valtor is a diff matter. AP wise he can be stronger but still might not beat Acheron because of him having lesser hax? And PIS is a possibility as well.
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Firstly, the why he is trapped has nothing to do with my point in what happens when one is sealed within it. Secondly, please cite your sources from the show as the Winx wiki, while a good general resources, is not complete or always accurate; the Trix were freed because they linked themselves to fairy animals that were summoned to the world. There was never a mention of strong magic freeing beings from the book.
The fairy transformations do not limit Bloom at this point as sge used the power of Dragon's Flame in base in season 6 as well as the fact that Daphne was competently weilding with only Sirenix. Bloom gains her complete Enchantix in the first movie (if we wish to continue to cite the Winx wiki as evidence), which is before season 4. Also, it is interesting to see you cite these difficulties of using her power while maintaining the belief that she is a peer of Valtor and yet cite her imcompleteness against future villains. Also: various times vs the Trix in season 7, Selina being a peer, Daphne in Sirenix (and Politea by extension), the existance of the fairies of Magix, the Ancestral Witches in their season 5 recton, the Swan of Infinity, etc.
Darkar is just the opposite of the Great Dragon's power in that it absorbs. I believe you to be hedging here. He is a match for Bloom with an incomplete Enchantix, who is much weaker than Nebula, other Major fairies, and the Wizards. Politea with one hand is stronger than a Sirenix convergence. There is simply too much to argue for Valtor, which makes sense.
The fairy transformations do not limit Bloom at this point as sge used the power of Dragon's Flame in base in season 6 as well as the fact that Daphne was competently weilding with only Sirenix. Bloom gains her complete Enchantix in the first movie (if we wish to continue to cite the Winx wiki as evidence), which is before season 4. Also, it is interesting to see you cite these difficulties of using her power while maintaining the belief that she is a peer of Valtor and yet cite her imcompleteness against future villains. Also: various times vs the Trix in season 7, Selina being a peer, Daphne in Sirenix (and Politea by extension), the existance of the fairies of Magix, the Ancestral Witches in their season 5 recton, the Swan of Infinity, etc.
Darkar is just the opposite of the Great Dragon's power in that it absorbs. I believe you to be hedging here. He is a match for Bloom with an incomplete Enchantix, who is much weaker than Nebula, other Major fairies, and the Wizards. Politea with one hand is stronger than a Sirenix convergence. There is simply too much to argue for Valtor, which makes sense.
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I also do not see the reasoning for citing the Trix in season 7 because they were destroying the Winx in their fight, which is more evidence in favor of tempering expectations of the Dragon's Flame weilders.
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Yes ik that, I was only refruting the reasoning for why Acheron specifically got trapped. Anyways, while the wikia isnt perfect citing isnt neccesary for this point. Acheron clearly needed a strong source of power, aka the dragon flame, to get out otherwiee why didnt Selina just summon him normally from the book like anything else? Or break the seal herself without the aid from others?
My fault but thats not what i mean. When i say "limit her" im not talking power wise but hax wise. She may hold the strongest power in the verse but using it in different levels of fairy forms can lead to restricting her use of it as she only gets stronger abilities when gaining higher level forms. If this wasnt the case, then she wouldnt need Believix to beat the wizards or Sirenix to beat Tritannus as her power by itself should be enough. But due to Enchantix powers being nigh-useless on them and Believix being greatly ineffective in water, requiring them to gain Harmonix just to be able to uee said magic underwater, you can see my point here. Also i have never seen the movies (which are canon though) so i can't comment on that for now. But it shouldnt matter since Enchantix power is almost completely useless against the black circle wizards.
Ahh k. Well in that case if he's anything like the water stars it means he can absorb Great Dragon level power. Also when did he fight Enchantix Bloom?
Also 2 things we should consider here:
First, the show has a ridiculous amount of PIS, giving us scenes that not only do not make sense, but are completely ridiculous. And it makes sense for Winx not being a show that focuses on power/tier consistency all the time and is a show with a magicial background greater than Fairy Tail. And second, from what i see, the dragon flame is only a PART of the great dragons power since a mere breathe from him created the verse and the flames that came from said breathe and Bloom can use the flame to draw more and more power from him. So even if the flame gets overpowered, it doesnt mean its superior to the GD.
My fault but thats not what i mean. When i say "limit her" im not talking power wise but hax wise. She may hold the strongest power in the verse but using it in different levels of fairy forms can lead to restricting her use of it as she only gets stronger abilities when gaining higher level forms. If this wasnt the case, then she wouldnt need Believix to beat the wizards or Sirenix to beat Tritannus as her power by itself should be enough. But due to Enchantix powers being nigh-useless on them and Believix being greatly ineffective in water, requiring them to gain Harmonix just to be able to uee said magic underwater, you can see my point here. Also i have never seen the movies (which are canon though) so i can't comment on that for now. But it shouldnt matter since Enchantix power is almost completely useless against the black circle wizards.
Ahh k. Well in that case if he's anything like the water stars it means he can absorb Great Dragon level power. Also when did he fight Enchantix Bloom?
Also 2 things we should consider here:
First, the show has a ridiculous amount of PIS, giving us scenes that not only do not make sense, but are completely ridiculous. And it makes sense for Winx not being a show that focuses on power/tier consistency all the time and is a show with a magicial background greater than Fairy Tail. And second, from what i see, the dragon flame is only a PART of the great dragons power since a mere breathe from him created the verse and the flames that came from said breathe and Bloom can use the flame to draw more and more power from him. So even if the flame gets overpowered, it doesnt mean its superior to the GD.
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Everything Kukui mentioned, plus quite a bit more. It was always implied that it was not just the Dragon Flame she was feeding off of , but the Great Dragon himself. They consistently said it was " Great Dragon's Power " , as opposed to just the Dragon Flame . Should i show the evidence to Darkanime so we can apply the upgrades ? Because at this point, both of you will continue this power struggle for days to come.
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@Seed you probably should. This has been going on for days.
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There was no need to refute that beecause I never brought that point up in the fiest place. That reason is never explained why, so I have no need to speculate as to why so and so was the case.
This is not a discussion of the hax she has available (which she displays less and less of as the series goes one actually), and this is unrelated to the power discussion.
I did no mention Darkar fighting Enchantix Bloom. Or perhaps you misunderstood the list I presened at the end of the paragraph?
What is PIS for you? You are not going to use that as an excuse for Valtor, are you? Please be direct. Secondly, no implication exists that the Dragon's Flame is only apart of the Great Dragon's power. You have just misremembered this. Please, cite the Italian for this.
The Great Dragon's power is the Dragon's Flame, meaning it is synonymous and interchangable. That is very much a reach on your part, Seed.
This is not a discussion of the hax she has available (which she displays less and less of as the series goes one actually), and this is unrelated to the power discussion.
I did no mention Darkar fighting Enchantix Bloom. Or perhaps you misunderstood the list I presened at the end of the paragraph?
What is PIS for you? You are not going to use that as an excuse for Valtor, are you? Please be direct. Secondly, no implication exists that the Dragon's Flame is only apart of the Great Dragon's power. You have just misremembered this. Please, cite the Italian for this.
The Great Dragon's power is the Dragon's Flame, meaning it is synonymous and interchangable. That is very much a reach on your part, Seed.
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The funny thing is with what you posted , you supported exactly what i was referring to in the first place . There are interchangeable, therefore it isn't that big of a stretch to assume it really is GD's power.
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You argued that she was feeding off more than the Deagon Flame but the Great Dragon himself, implying that they are not the same. Do you wish to clarify your position because you are contradicting your position if we go by what you actually said.
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I thought what i said was clear cut. I was saying that she essentially is constantly feeding off of the Dragon Flame even in her Base form.
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This is made clear on season 6, and I also brought it up in my first post. I'm not sure what you are arguing against because I have not claimed otherwise.
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The changes have been made so this thread can now be closed.
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Quite a few actually:
Great Dragon ( One of the most obvious to scale . ) , Valtor ( Scales to Enchantrix form [ slightly weaker, but scales ] , which is far stronger than her Charmix Form , which is far stronger than her Base form, which is far superior to Acheron period . ) , Earth Fairies , Darkar , Dark Bloom ( Scales to Bloom's Charmix form, whom is massively above Acheron ) , Arcacia & The Etheral Fairies , Trix ( With various power ups ) , Bloomix WInx ( High end 2-C / 2-B because they only scale to a fraction of Bloom's Base Dragon Flame Power , whom is still above Acheron by an massive margin ) , Dalphne ( Former bearer of Dragon's Flame and is still shhould be comparable to Bloom's Charmix Form ) , and more than likely a lot more than this. ,
Great Dragon ( One of the most obvious to scale . ) , Valtor ( Scales to Enchantrix form [ slightly weaker, but scales ] , which is far stronger than her Charmix Form , which is far stronger than her Base form, which is far superior to Acheron period . ) , Earth Fairies , Darkar , Dark Bloom ( Scales to Bloom's Charmix form, whom is massively above Acheron ) , Arcacia & The Etheral Fairies , Trix ( With various power ups ) , Bloomix WInx ( High end 2-C / 2-B because they only scale to a fraction of Bloom's Base Dragon Flame Power , whom is still above Acheron by an massive margin ) , Dalphne ( Former bearer of Dragon's Flame and is still shhould be comparable to Bloom's Charmix Form ) , and more than likely a lot more than this. ,
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The Water Stars should be scaled from this too since they are comparable to the Great Dragon in power.
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I forgot to add them. Yeah Water Stars would scale to them.
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Uhmm... Ant ... The pages i mentioned , and he mentioned, they are not created yet. We can do that later if you wish, but they aren't created. However, the verse page ( if there is one ) should be edited though.
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