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What should I do? I'm half done with revisions and now Tots Real has other suggestions, and the current pages for Alucard and Anderson already has a seemingly unsubstantiated small building level rating for their weaker forms.
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Alucard (Hellsing) major CRT
- Thread starter The_Pink_God
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It's Wikipedia, what do you expect? I guess we could look at their sources and see if any are actually military. Alternatively, we could use the lowest one.
We know the plane was moving at Mach 2.8 before it dived down, meaning it's at least faster than Mach 2.8.
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Funnily enough, I brought up The rules on KE earlier and how the logical kinetic energy doesn't take priority over the actual damage dealt, which certainly applies in this case
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You two should probably discuss this among yourselves. I'm just the one doing the revisions, and I'm half done with a bunch of revisions and wondering how best to clean up the confusing mess that is Alucard and Anderson's pages.
The current Alucard and Anderson profiles have the weaker forms listed as 9-A with no calculation listed to support it. Should I drop their weaker forms to wall level or just list all their forms as 9-A? And should I leave the infinite stamina or change it to superhuman?
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So base Alucard and base Anderson scale to the Captain and True Vampire Seras? I thought there might be some issues there, since the pages also say Luke Valentine and Tubalcain Alhambra are superior to base Alucard at small building level, and again, with no feat or calculation to substantiate it.
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The Captain is also sorta implied to not entirely be going 100% on Seras so it's mostly her
You could probably add a few details here and there (Luke for instance was definitely outclassing Alucard before he just went to level 1)
You could probably add a few details here and there (Luke for instance was definitely outclassing Alucard before he just went to level 1)
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My concern is, simply put:
- Issue 1: Alucard and Anderson have seperate tiering listed for their base forms and stronger forms, with the stronger form about to be downgraded to 9-A. Their weaker forms are already listed as 9-A.
- Issue 2: their weaker forms are currently listed as 9-A already, along with Luke Valentine and lots of other characters, and I can't find a feat justifying it.
- Issue 3: the Hellsing-verse Vampires all have infinite stamina listed, but I'm not sure being undead automatically grants infinite stamina.
What do you think should be done about these issues?
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The top speed is between Mach 3.2 and 3.5 depending on the what top speed we're talking about. Also the ship was directly modified to break such records so.
It's likely that much of the kinetic energy was sponged up by Alucard in the crash since for the most part the jet was relatively unharmed, even a minimal impact would have done damage to it's structural integrity.
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My concern is basically how to deal with the above issues. In short, the 9-A rating of Hellsing's lower characters seems to have no basis, and I can't scale characters like Luke Valentine to True Vampire Seras' feat.
Tots Real and DMUA are in disagreement over whether the kinetic energy of the plane crash feat can be used.
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Okay. I suppose that we should probably do what DMUA thinks is the best solution regarding the plane crash feat then.
Also, yes, being undead does not automatically grant infinite stamina. It should be downgraded to superhuman stamina instead.
Also, yes, being undead does not automatically grant infinite stamina. It should be downgraded to superhuman stamina instead.
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I bowed out of that discussion, but I'm trying to figure out how to tier the lower level characters.
I'll do that soon. Thanks,
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I've been trying to figure out how to tier the lower level characters. The idea that base Alucard and Anderson scale to True Vampire Seras while Luke Valentine and Tubalcain are above base Alucard would result in Luke Valentine being comparable to or above True Vampire Seras and comparable to the Captain. If Luke had been that strong the Captain wouldn't have been so significant amongst the Millennium soldiers. It also seems strange for Luke Valentine to be stronger than Anderson, especially when we see how easily Walter physically controls him.
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The solution is either to say base Alucard doesn't scale to True Vampire Seras, or alternatively to say Luke only seemed stronger than base Alucard because Alucard basically stood there like a fool and randomly shot at Luke with the Casull.
Either way the weaker characters either need a new calculation for their AP or we can just downgrade them to wall level for scaling to base Seras.
Either way the weaker characters either need a new calculation for their AP or we can just downgrade them to wall level for scaling to base Seras.
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You can't really "sponge" kinetic energy without just getting rid of it and the whole point was the blackbird diving straight in full speed, and even if he did then there was no point to crashing it like that if he wanted to stop himself from just completely demolishing the thing wholesale
They were listed as "higher" pre downgrade and they do definitely show higher levels of strength in that form, so go with thag
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That still leaves us with the second issue: do the weaker characters have a pre-existing justification for 9-A, or are we looking at scaling them based on a feat from someone much stronger than them? Hellsing's scaling is a mess.
Edit: okay, so this is what I think needs to happen.
First, I'll make the edits to Alucard and Anderson's stronger forms, and we can put the issue of the strongest characters behind us.
Then, we still need to go over how to scale the weaker characters. It would be good if Crabwhale could go over with me how to scale the less powerful characters. If DMUA can find a calculation for the lower characters that would help too. Scaling characters like Luke and to a lesser extent Tubalcain based on a feat performed by True Vampire Seras and the Captain is very questionable.
Edit: okay, so this is what I think needs to happen.
First, I'll make the edits to Alucard and Anderson's stronger forms, and we can put the issue of the strongest characters behind us.
Then, we still need to go over how to scale the weaker characters. It would be good if Crabwhale could go over with me how to scale the less powerful characters. If DMUA can find a calculation for the lower characters that would help too. Scaling characters like Luke and to a lesser extent Tubalcain based on a feat performed by True Vampire Seras and the Captain is very questionable.
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I know Seras' normal form scaled to a bunch of scattered 9-B feats by random ghouls and such so if that was really a problem use that
But again like, Luke's entire fight with Alucard was him destroying their first form and then dying to level 1, Tubalcain is on the same sort of boat (and that's their justification as of now anyhow)
But again like, Luke's entire fight with Alucard was him destroying their first form and then dying to level 1, Tubalcain is on the same sort of boat (and that's their justification as of now anyhow)
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Seras' profile places her at 9-B for crushing skulls.
Tubalcain did overwhelm or at least match base Alucard, but Luke is questionable. Alucard just stood there the whole time allowing the bullets to hit him and even choosing not to regenerate.
There's also the issue, does base Alucard scale to True Vampire Seras? Base Alucard couldn't hold back Monster of God Anderson while True Vampire Seras could hold his bayonet back despite his fire and thorns burning her. Also keeping in mind his grip on the hilt and holding the blade forward and close to his body gives him a better grip and leverage compared to her gripping the blade with her arm out to keep the blade from Alucard.
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Actually might have an argument for Schrodinger having Mid-Godly and in turn Post-Schrodinger Alucard Mid-Godly.
Alucard himself would need to get Soul Destruction since he killed all of the souls within his soul stock to restore his existence.
Alucard himself would need to get Soul Destruction since he killed all of the souls within his soul stock to restore his existence.
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If you have solid evidence for mid-godly regeneration feel free to lay it out, but keep in mind both mid-godly and omnipresence have already been rejected (please don't dredge up the omnipresence again; that was maddening...).
My obviously waning sanity aside, I will listen. If the evidence is solid I'll support it.
The issue is that we don't know what state Alucard was in, and we do know that his souls die if he is dealt a fatal blow. He even says he's been killing himself in some translations. Who's to say he hasn't just been committing suicide constantly? It would be consistent with his ability to specify the number if he's literally been counting as he kills himself over and over. What's more, he says he killed all but one, his own, so we know he didn't destroy his own soul then reconstitute it either.
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Don't lump me in with these fodder.
The evidence is pretty solid, since within Hellsing the mind and soul are directly connected to blood, which is blatantly stated.
It's the same justification as his Low-Godly regeneration, it's just that a different and overlooked mechanism is being introduced. Regenerating from existence Erasure in this case would be Mid-Godly since Alucard's mind, Body and soul were affected.
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Fair enough. The pressure to redefine omnipresence (not just on the Wiki but apparently in the dictionary as well) just for Schrodinger almost drove Antvasima and myself mad.
I don't think we can reasonably assume his soul was erased, especially when he literally states that he destroyed all his other souls and left only one, and when the continued existence of all his other souls is literally the reason he can't physically exist.
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It's outright stated that Alucard was erased from existence by the major entirely. Erasing the body would in turn erase his blood, and in turn would erase his soul and mind.
The easier solution would be that Alucard simply regenerated himself at a later point and It's neve confirmed that Alucard was the only remaining soul, that would go to Schrodinger not Alucard, meaning Alucard did in fact regenerate from the destruction of his soul, body and mind and used Schrodinger as a medium.
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Tbh I'm seeing a whole lot of "Well what is Alucard did [insert random argument here.]" instead of actual counter-arguments.
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In fairness it was specifically the skulls of the general vampire grunts (who are capable of tanking hails of gunfire without any real injury, jumping out of blimps straight into the street without slowing down, stuff like that) so I'll try to get a gif of that stuff and come back to you
Guess I misremember the context but alright
Another thing I'm blanking on but if she does really restrain them for a noticable period that would be a solid reason to not scale (generally the idea was "Alucard didn't actively starve himself of blood and is a vampiric superweapon so he shouldn't be weaker than Seras" but feats are feats, if she does actually put up some amount of fight besides getting demolished in the process of protecting Alucard)
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Indeed. We also have them tearing through soldiers in body armour and ripping off Integra's windshield. I'm well sold on lower vampires being 9-B. It's scaling them to 9-A I'm searching for evidence for.
Luke even comments that Alucard isn't even trying to dodge Luke's bullets. He was doing his usual screwing around.
I can understand that, and Alucard in his straitjacket form scales above Seras, but base Alucard might have been weaker.
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So you reckon that means his mind and soul still exist only as long as his blood still exists? I guess that would be consistent with his ability to regenerate from nothing but blood.
In some translations he says he destroyed all his souls "except for one", but in others he says "except for me", so we could use some clarification on that.
In all fairness, you're insisting his soul was erased due to his blood being erased and I'm raising the issue that we don't know all the details of Schrodinger's abilities or what state Alucard was in, and pointing out that his other souls clearly still existed.
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His mind and soul are directly connected to his blood, if his blood was erased then it turn it would mean both his mind and soul were erased as they're tied to one another.
Empty words mean nothing to me and there's the official translations we can use which state "expect for one."
If he said "expect for me." that would make no sense since he still possess Schrodinger's abilities. Both contextually and in terms of the narrative your argument makes zero sense.
His other souls did not continue to exist.
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His blood was not erased, as shown here, where his blood is still present on the ground after he vanishes. By your own reasoning that means his mind and soul still exist.
Your own reasoning has said that Alucard's soul wasn't part of the mix because it didn't exist, and only Schrodinger remains. How can you then say his other souls, which were still part of the mix, so much so that he had to destroy them over the course of thirty years, also didn't exist for the same reasons?
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I'm just responding to you mentioning that Seras was 9-B off a skull crush (found what I was thinking of, also)
"might", but upon reviewing the scene in the manga... yeah she just kinda grabs a knife and immediately lights on fire as Anderson shifts his focus towards her, it's not really an indication she's noticeably stronger
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She holds the knife back despite being burned by the holy element of Anderson's new powers. It proves she's comparable to Monster of God Anderson who just stomped base Alucard.
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Not really
There's nothing really showing that Anderson is continuing to try and put the knife in and thus Seras is stopping them with brute strength (or particular strain from Seras outside of the fact she is on fire) so that's not really a grounded assumption
There's nothing really showing that Anderson is continuing to try and put the knife in and thus Seras is stopping them with brute strength (or particular strain from Seras outside of the fact she is on fire) so that's not really a grounded assumption
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I don't know... The whole point is Anderson is trying to stab Alucard's heart to kill him. And if Anderson isn't trying to drive the bayonet deeper and pierce Alucard's heart, why does Seras need to grab the blade and hold onto it in the first place?
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The timeframe is like, an almost instant window is the main point I'm trying to make. She stops it, but only for about a split second before Anderson shifts his attacks to her, which is then followed by Alucard entering Level 1
It's not that much of a definitive show of superior strength
It's not that much of a definitive show of superior strength
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Not superior to Anderson, but certainly comparable. Anderson previously overpowered base Alucard very easily. Anyway, I'm preparing to cook right now, so it'll take a little time to get back to you, but I'll check the manga again and see the exact details of the exchange. I should probably upload a few more scans from the manga anyway, and I noticed Homelander's page could benefit from a new scan to replace an existing one as well, so I got some reading and uploading to do either way.
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