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Altair vs Kars

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1)MiH

2)Having her powers and abilities have more benefits than just using it to defeat her and Kars would effectively become extremely resistant to those abilities.

3)He uses BTD on himself without needing her, basically a traveling back in time

4)Ah well thats cool, but ultimately Kars would be faster so he would just time stop.

5)Good thing this is Kars who is superior to Sirius in the copying ability department.

Counters for your counters of my counters:

1.2.3.MiH yadayadayada time stop yadayada.....

4.Dunno how your gonna find a blank personality in someone who has potential infinite personalities even with probability manipulation

And the last one even though it isn't really a counter:

6.Thats pretty cool.

Can't blame me for his dank time stop and copying abilities.And I his copying would work by the virtue of being superior to Sirius but that doesn't mean he has to use those abilities for destroying her, just him getting her regen would be nice.
 
1) It takes a thought for both of them to activate their abilities but let's say Kars can use MiH. Is he getting past her defensive passive plot Erasing Forcefields? Nope.

2) Copying and Using her own abilities against her isn't gonna do jack

3) Again Time Travelling back isn't helping when the entire universe is erased along with you by an Acausal being. Kars isn't no Mercurius to pull off an Acta Est Fabula and rewind reality. And lol how is time travelling helping when there is no time considering EoS Altair Erased an entire Universe away casually.

4) Don't see how he bypasses her defensive haxes

5) Nice Circular Reasoning even though you never watched the Series but let me reiterate myself again. Sirius was made to be Superior to Altair and had the exact same abilities as Altair. If that didn't work against Altair ultimately, Kars isn't gonna make any difference either.

Counters for you counters

1) Existence Erasing Passive Forcefields

2) Match starts and she turns Kars into a powerless being with a thought

3) Touch Outline Origin and get yours powers removed. All of it.

4) Kars hasn't shown or implied to have Infinite personalities. If you can prove please do. Otherwise I can use numerous scans where Altair was stated to Possess Infinite Abilities

5) I know

6) Yeh


So again, your entire premise relies on Time Stop+Copy along with MiH even though they aren't helping here either against Altair's Existence Erasing Forcefields or Outline Origin or Getting the entire universe erased and you can't just say "Superior to Sirius" without any proof and lol Him getting her Regen or powers Still don't change anything considering Sirius herself had Mid-Godly and every single abilities of Altair and she was still defeated.
 
You do realize that once Kars copies Altair's abilities, he gets a resistance to said abilities right?
 
You do realize Altair herself has resistence against most of her own abilities. So copying and using them against her isn't helping here.
 
RM97 said:
You do realize Altair herself has resistence against most of her own abilities. So copying and using them against her isn't helping here.
Click to expand...
Not how that works.

Kars copies at a higher scale. Dio also resisted timestop yet when Kars did his stop Dio had no idea.
 
Well she can manipulate data and stuffs and her body is essentially a hologram like body. Even the effects from her Abilities are all data like blocks. So maybe I guess I dunno
 
1) It takes a thought for both of them to activate their abilities but let's say Kars can use MiH. Is he getting past her defensive passive plot Erasing Forcefields? Nope.

Yeah. Kars exists in a world with beyond and shit like tier 2 ger. Hello if anything he autocopies the fields immediately.

2) Copying and Using her own abilities against her isn't gonna do jack

Except when he copies on a far higher scale and has shown hus ability effects this previously uneffected by ability.

3) Again Time Travelling back isn't helping when the entire universe is erased along with you by an Acausal being. Kars isn't no Mercurius to pull off an Acta Est Fabula and rewind reality. And lol how is time travelling helping when there is no time considering EoS Altair Erased an entire Universe away casually.

Kars survived universal destruction as in timeline. Not killing him. Type 8 universal body hopping universal Creation himself also says hi.

4) Don't see how he bypasses her defensive haxes

By copying and resisting.

5) Nice Circular Reasoning even though you never watched the Series but let me reiterate myself again. Sirius was made to be Superior to Altair and had the exact same abilities as Altair. If that didn't work against Altair ultimately, Kars isn't gonna make any difference either.

Nice so Kars beat someone with powers similar to his? Does that mean anyone like him will lose ta him? Ta said it yourself. Kars>Sirius. Unfortunately for Altair while Kars has all her powers he also has powers of tanking . Plus he would be constantly evolving.

Counters for you counters

1) Existence Erasing Passive Forcefields

Copied. Various forms of things render null. Plus he actually has Resistance.

2) Match starts and she turns Kars into a powerless being with a thought

Like ger failed ta do?

3) Touch Outline Origin and get yours powers removed. All of it.

Sounds like Whitesnake. Which failed. As Kars has essentially infinite powers and even if so an alternate Kars exists.

4) Kars hasn't shown or implied to have Infinite personalities. If you can prove please do. Otherwise I can use numerous scans where Altair was stated to Possess Infinite Abilities

Infinite minds though.
 
Monarch Laciel said:
Aren't Altairs most powerful abilities from the Holopsicon, and Kars can't copy tech based abilities?
Click to expand...
Not quite.

Upon further inspection he can replicate technology based things. Also above the cube house. Which is obviously not organic.
 
Outline Origin is actually Plot Manipulation. The moment you get touched by it you will get all your power ups removed and you will return to your weakest form in Kars case his High 8-C Form From Part 2. The only way to prevent this seems to be Acausality which Kars doesn't seem have.
 
1) Don't see how Causality Manipulator like GER is useful. Again just coming near her would Erase him. Afaik he has to see, know or hear about any Concept to copy it. Those Forcefields are invisible and can Erase him upon contact before he can copy it and gain resistence to it.

2) She faced someone who had the same Abilities and Resistance as her and was more superior to her in every way. Didn't do jack to her.

3) Cool, she can use Representation Exposition or Outline Origin or even her Reality Warping to lolnope his Universal Type 8 Immortality

4) Refer to point 1

5) Both Sirius and Altair were constantly evolving and getting updated due to continuous audience acceptance in the Birdcage but still Sirius was beaten.

Counters

1) Resistance against outright Plot Manipulated from the Story? Proof?

2) GER Ôëá Representation Exposition. Her ability explicitly revises plot and can change or modify anything about the character

3) Again Outline Origin removes Plot twists and Power ups of a plot and brings them back to the beginning of the series. It's not the same as Whitesnake's abilities

4) Cool Altair was also stated to have Infinite abilities and powers too.
 
I don't see how MiH is effective since it takes a single thought to activate his Timestop or MiH. The same thought via which she can Warp or Erase Kars away, Outline Origin him back to Part 2 Kars, Representation Expositions him to a powerless human, Existence Changes with Kars
 
Dienomite22 said:
Thing is MiH will boost his "speed" so he will be faster as well and can Alair even copy things like stands?
Click to expand...
Obviously since her Ability is to Copy the plot itself. She even copied a Mecha and gained powers to remotely control it casually
 
1) Don't see how Causality Manipulator like GER is useful. Again just coming near her would Erase him. Afaik he has to see, know or hear about any Concept to copy it. Those Forcefields are invisible and can Erase him upon contact before he can copy it and gain resistence to it.

Because ger can do more than just that. Like nullify shit. Erase aspects. And? Kars does not need ta even actually understand. All passive. He gained Whitesnake for example without having any idea on what it actually does.

2) She faced someone who had the same Abilities and Resistance as her and was more superior to her in every way. Didn't do jack to her.

Now add that but more and constantly adapting in order to overcome.

3) Cool, she can use Representation Exposition or Outline Origin or even her Reality Warping to lolnope his Universal Type 8 Immortality

And he already copied and resisted by that point.

4) Refer to point 1

Did.

5) Both Sirius and Altair were constantly evolving and getting updated due to continuous audience acceptance in the Birdcage but still Sirius was beaten.

Ok fair but Kars is constantly adapting at a higher scale of his opponent. He would be copying the adaptions his opponent made but better.

Counters

1) Resistance against outright Plot Manipulated from the Story? Proof?

Beyond.

2) GER Ôëá Representation Exposition. Her ability explicitly revises plot and can change or modify anything about the character

Beyond.

3) Again Outline Origin removes Plot twists and Power ups of a plot and brings them back to the beginning of the series. It's not the same as Whitesnake's abilities

Beyond.

4) Cool Altair was also stated to have Infinite abilities and powers too.

Nit what I stated but also true for Kars.
 
The Plot is essentially anything that's within a story. Be it an object, a being, or even a concept. That's what Plot Manipulation is. Manipulating the Story and Plot elements in it. And stands are part of a story hence they are a plot point.
 
Things that he can also erase.

>Objects, Beings, Powers and even an entire Universe.

Things that he powerscales off of.

>Litterally anything within the Canon jjba manga or novel.

There exists nothing within jjba (other noncanon things excluded) that can permanently kill him before he adapts. Luckily for him . Plot manipulation exists within the novel coming from a tier 2 no less.
 
1) GER uses his causality Manipulation to Zero reset beings and aspects of reality. That's different than characters who can Reality Warp and achieve similar results. But let's say Kars does understand the concept and comes near it and doesn't get erased, he'll be reverted back to Part 2 Pillar men due to her Outline Origin

2) That's what Sirius did. And still didn't go well for Kars.

3) "He copied and resisted by that point" how is he copying abilities and gain resistence to them when he gets all his Powers nulled including his conceptual understanding.

Counters

1-3) Yes, Beyond Kars's paygrade

4) It's true for Altair too.
 
She either leads with existence erasure which erases all the stands which makes Kars lose most of his powers or plot manipulation and removes all of Kars stands. After that she'll probably just Outline Origin Kars and call it a day.
 
If you are referring to Dio's Plot Manip, then just know that Altair's plot manip is much better and more versatile

And as for leading, She has Representation Exposition, Outline Origin, and even Existence Change
 
Novel get=\=manga get.

Not because he would retroactively adaot.

Yes he has adapted to shit his future self could not.

Ya gonna keep bring up a far weaker character?

Nope. Beyond is actually under the can not do much ta kaes category.

And?
 
Ta realize everything in the novel happens because of beyond right? Essentially everything. Better? Beyond us beyond space&time of tier 2 fighters.

Likely 2-A plot manipulation.
 
Peter1129 said:
She either leads with existence erasure which erases all the stands which makes Kars lose most of his powers or plot manipulation and removes all of Kars stands. After that she'll probably just Outline Origin Kars and call it a day.
Click to expand...
Which does nothing. As he would be able ta spontaneously adaot them again. He leads with timestop which prevents that. And even if it did work past Kars now resists.

Plot manipulation not cutting anything.
 
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