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Alien & Predator CRT
- Thread starter Xenomorph2099
- Start date
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- #42
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I agree with adding AVP to the predator canon, just not the reverse.
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- #44
Just so we're clear, are we only considering AvP labeled Materials to be Canon to Predator or Alien + AvP Material Canon to Predator?
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I think Alien excluding Prometheus & stuff should be included?
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Yes, although I dont think we should include alien canon into the AVP/Predator canon for reasons stated above imo.
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- #47
If that is what is agreed upon, if so, I'd say Prometheus/Covenant (and related materials but not necessarily all material afterward.)
Stuff like Alien: Out of the Shadows and Alien: Sea of Sorrows mentions Alien: Isolation character Amanda Ripley while also having the Rage War Trilogy (AvP Crossover) series play out after the events of these books.
Then we have stuff like Aliens: Phalanx and a upcoming AvP Anthology later this year that features a sequel to that prior novel's story despite Phalanx having no mention of Predators. RPG might be in question due to Covenant stuff. Fireteam might be too.
Understandable.
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Its AvP material unless you can find a hard connecting statement to one of the Aliens movies.
As an example, both Jason Voorhees and Freddy Krueger consider Ash from Evil Dead as canon. Both of the former franchises treat the first three Evil Dead movies as canon to their narratives as those are the only things referenced in their crossover, but the reverse isn't true. Evil Dead doesn't consider NMoES or F13 as canon to Ash so its not possible to backscale main Ash to what he does in FvJvA. In the same notion Freddy and Jason don't consider the other Evil Dead movies, the TV Show, or the other comics as canon because they were never referenced in their story and diverge from previous comic plot points.
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- #49
This would be a AvP material connecting to Alien, Aliens and Alien3 (in a Predator Verse Context for this of course), but there's really nonething when it comes to Alien outright for statements from Alien that would connect it to Predator or AvP itself. Predator or AvP projects do the connecting for it most or every time.
In AvP 2010, Karl Bishop Weyland refers to Ellen Ripley, not by name but by actions in a Audio Log. This would set the game after the events of Alien 3.
"Even now I can't help but admire her, despite all she did to hold us back. Three times she faced them; three times she obstructed our progress. She showed a strength that few possess. If she had only realized the magnificence of what she sought to destroy."
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- #50
Found an additional mention of the events of Alien movies by characters, events and locations. Can't believe I forgot about it when I was making the Doc.
In the Special Features of AvP: Requiem, there is a special feature known as the Weyland-Yutani Archives. This archive collects information from both Alien and Predator, their separated movies along with the crossover movies. It also mentions stuff from Dark Horse Comics and older Novels. It is constructed to be a in-universe databank, seeing as you are locked out of some information and are given employee-style disclaimers to not share, discuss, or copy information kept in the archive. It should also be noted that this Archive is active at December 2nd, 2185, which is a good long while after Alien3.
Ellen Ripley is mentioned along with Alien Locations in this Weyland-Yutani Archive.
Ditto
I'd have the image of the Weyland-Yutani Archives Date on rn but Imgur's being a slow snail.
Man, looks like Imgur is also a broken snail too.
In the Special Features of AvP: Requiem, there is a special feature known as the Weyland-Yutani Archives. This archive collects information from both Alien and Predator, their separated movies along with the crossover movies. It also mentions stuff from Dark Horse Comics and older Novels. It is constructed to be a in-universe databank, seeing as you are locked out of some information and are given employee-style disclaimers to not share, discuss, or copy information kept in the archive. It should also be noted that this Archive is active at December 2nd, 2185, which is a good long while after Alien3.
Ellen Ripley is mentioned along with Alien Locations in this Weyland-Yutani Archive.
Ditto
I'd have the image of the Weyland-Yutani Archives Date on rn but Imgur's being a slow snail.
Man, looks like Imgur is also a broken snail too.
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Understandable, although I think this is kinda given for a crossover, just AVP's acknowledgment of these movies with an AVP/predator 'twist' as you probably meant above.
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Otherwise I am feeling we should create separate profiles for the canon alien characters, at least for the ones that appeared in AVP.
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Grid profile incoming! Not from me tho...
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Well the first three movies of Aliens are usable if nothing else.
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I understand.
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- #56
I'd say some of the Comics and stuff too, Alien Comics branching off of other Alien Comics then get inducted into AvP stuff like all the time.
For example. Aliens: More Than Human Prologue Comic outright refers back to the events of Alien: Outbreak with the Alien invasion of Earth post Aliens.
This comic then gets included into the AvP Storyline like how Aliens: Frenzy was into Aliens vs Predator War and Three World War.
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If they're not directly referenced in a AVP source, then they cannot be used to scale. Its entirely possible only the movies and none of its surrounding material is canon to AvP.
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- #58
There are numerous Alien comics that are directly referenced in AvP materials, that sliver lining would just narrow the selection down a notch and it gets messy with AVP stories making references to Alien stories which have their own references to other Alien stories that have no connecting references on their own that would connect back to AvP.
That was a mouth full.
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- #59
Seems like Grid's taking high priority then lmao.
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He's pretty popular if I recall
Hellbeast
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How is Gigachad Grid not high priority
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Well, AvP Extinction feats and statements were gonna take the number 1 spot but I wouldn't mind making Grid in the meantime.
That begs the question, would Grid be a AvP Page or a Predator Page for Predator? That's a thinker.
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Perhaps we should change the Predator verse page name to just 'Alien vs Predator'? im not sure tbh
On a related note I will start making the AVP xeno profile.
On a related note I will start making the AVP xeno profile.
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Nice, wanna look it over together?
On the Verse thing, think this all still needs more approval but I'm down for Xenomorph to have 2 whole pages as a Disambiguation kinda thing if this patches through as a solution.
Also on that note, shouldn't Mortal Kombat X Alien/Predator get negged?
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- #65
Bump.
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Sure
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- #67
Don't wish to be annoying at all but has enough time passed for this to go through? Apologies if this is pushy.
I understand this:
-AvP Material is to be considered Canon to Predator, not Alien.
-Only Alien Material that is directly mentioned or referenced in AvP projects are canon to the AvP/Predator verse.*
-Alien verse profiles should get AvP variants on all profiles that apply.**
* Still conflicted as to older Alien projects that are mentioned as background plot points in newer Alien projects that end up being mixed into AvP as direct references/plot points, without those older projects having connections to AvP on their own.
**: On Alien's side, we have AvP Counterparts becoming AvP Profiles. But on Predator's side, wouldn't profiles that would otherwise be AvP profiles then become Predator profiles due to Predator = AvP? If we separate those profiles, that implies a separate Canon.
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ehhh im iffy on that part.
non-canon media referencing canon media does not make it exactly canon imo, for example non-canon star wars comics reference canon movies but the comics themselves are still non-canon if you get my drift. Im starting to think the films shouldn't be used at all considering they tie in with Prometheus, the alien movies dont even reference anything predator related at all.
This is what we should use for AVP, imo
- Prometheus: Fire and Stone
- Alien: Fire and Stone
- Prometheus: Fire and Stone - Omega
- Prometheus: Life and Death - Final Conflict
- Aliens: Xenogenesis
- Aliens: Renegade
- Alien: Invasion
I feel this is all we should use when it comes to alien stuff on AVP, I would like to hear some more feedback on this personally cause I feel I am forgetting some stuff.
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Despite being a prequel, Prometheus doesn't tie directly into the Mainline Alien movies at all unlike a little bit like Covenant. Also who said it was non-canon? These events are directly referenced as having happened in what would be the AvP verse. As you yourself said with movies, it would be with a bit of a AvP Twist, but the events clearly happened as they did in seperate Alien Canon and have effects onto the later AvP/related stories.
You are, but you can find it in that convo we have.
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have we reached a conclusion yet?
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Ooooh, I see lmao.
But yea, was busy making a list of Alien Stories/Projects that would or could be canon to AvP given the conditions, which is what Roach is referring too.
Most Likely or is Confirmed:
Aliens: Frenzy (Characters are included in AvP: War and Three World War, events of Frenzy take place directly before War)
Aliens: More Than Human (Tusked Xenomorphs and Main character of More Than Human are in Three World War)
Aliens: Life and Death (Has Predators and Ahab)
Prometheus: Fire and Stone -Omega (Has Ahab play a role)
Aliens: Purge (Is directly mentioned in AvP: Pursuit, as it takes place right after Aliens: Purge and the main character of Purge is also in Pursuit.)
Aliens: Xenogenesis (Connects to the Xenogenesis Crossover Event with Pred/AvP: Xenogenesis)
Aliens: Renegade (Actually Dark Horse Comics #1-2. Technically a Alien title despite having no obvious relation to Alien other than being a prequel to AvP: Deadliest of the Species. Also has a previous incarnation of a character who appeared in DotS)
Aliens: Invasion (Part of the Rage War Crossover Event, has Predators)
Movies:
Alien (Mentioned consistently)
Aliens (Mentioned consistently)
Alien3 (Mentioned consistently)
Could be Canon:
Aliens: Field Report (Relates to F&S Crossover Event, Event and FR is referenced in River of Pain)
Aliens: Fire and Stone (Relates to F&S Crossover Event)
Prometheus: Fire and Stone (Relates to F&S Crossover Event)
Prometheus: Life and Death (Has Cracked Tusk's corpse, mentions events of Predator: Life and Death)
Prometheus: Life and Death - Final Conflict (Mentions Ahab and Predators)
Aliens: Outbreak (mentioned in Alien: More Than Human/Free Comic Book Day and AvP: Deadliest of the Species)
Aliens: Comic Book Free Day (Prequel and was included into Alien: More Than Human)
Novels:
Aliens: Out of The Shadows (Background plotpoint is mentioned in Rage War Crossover Event)
Aliens: Sea of Sorrows (Background plotpoint is mentioned in Rage War Crossover Event)
Aliens: River of Pain (mentions AvP tech, timeline doesn't match up tho. Also References Aliens: Field Report and Fire and Stone Crossover Event)
Aliens: Phalanx (Sequel is a upcoming AvP Story)
Games:
Aliens: Colonial Marines (Tech and Xeno types are seen in AvP Media, the story is understandably not canon)
Alien: Isolation (Is mentioned in Sea of Sorrows, which has a plot detail included in Rage War Crossover Event)
Movies:
Prometheus (If the F&S and L&D Crossover event is considered canon, so would Prometheus because that movie us what kicked off these events in the first place, and is constantly mentioned.)
NECA Bios kinda, if there was any use from Alien Bios.
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Looks Good 
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Bump.
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It seems we have reached a conclusion overall, perhaps this could be closed? not sure if we need more feedback or not.
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I think it can be closed yeh
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- #77
If there is nothing more to talk about, I agree.
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Go ahead
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There aren't any thread mods here
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I can do it, but only if everything scaling wise has been worked out first.
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