Alex Mercer vs Kaneki Ken

[NikHelton]

• Speed Equalized
• Kaneki - Post-Dragon. Bloodthirsty.
• Alex Mercer -Prototype 1 End Game
• Place of battle: lifeless underground way V14.
• 

 

[LordGinSama]

Mercer probably stomps, he's resistant to most of Kaneki's arsenal while the reverse isn't applicable. Kaneki doesn't have a resistance to Absorption hax, which Alex tends to spam quite often, Biological hax and so on and so forth. Kaneki doesn't really have a way to put Mercer down either due to his regeneration and Mercer can negate Kaneki's own regeneration due the nature of his Absorption.


This is a cool match but unfortunately I think Mercer stomps quite easily here.

 

[NikHelton]

Alex needs to heavily wear out an opponent of his equal in order to absorb. At least this was demonstrated to us throughout all 2 games and the most powerful characters that he absorbed at once are the usual Evolved.

Along with Musclemass, Alex scales up to the Low 7-C baseline, giving Kaneki a 2x advantage in AP. Moreover, Ken has more combat mobility and prefers to attack from long distances, so he can get rid of the kagune if they begin to consume him.

I'm not entirely sure if the virus will be able to affect Kaneki, because he is a living kagune and is not susceptible to ROS, which changes people's bodies at the cellular level.

 

[LordGinSama]

Alex needs to heavily wear out an opponent of his equal in order to absorb. At least this was demonstrated to us throughout all 2 games and the most powerful characters that he absorbed at once are the usual Evolved.

Which really isn't impossible here especially given the fact that Mercer has much better regenerative capabilities and can absorb citizens around to refill himself. Heller was able to absorb Mercer in their fight after some time, that's definitely better than normal Evolved.

Along with Musclemass, Alex scales up to the Low 7-C baseline, giving Kaneki a 2x advantage in AP. Moreover, Ken has more combat mobility and prefers to attack from long distances, so he can get rid of the kagune if they begin to consume him.

A 2x advantage is nice however it isn't nearly enough to give Kaneki the dub here. I'm also unsure about Kaneki having more combat mobility, Mercer is quite agile himself and has decent Acrobatics so they're comparable in this regard. The only issue with that is that Mercer would gain the abilities from said Kagune even if Kaneki gets rid of it.

I'm not entirely sure if the virus will be able to affect Kaneki, because he is a living kagune and is not susceptible to ROS, which changes people's bodies at the cellular level.

It definitely should be able to given that Mercer's works on the molecular level, which is better than working on a cellular level. His disease Manipulation also works on intimate objects also making it superior to ROS.

 

[NikHelton]

I don't think the kagune will deny Zeus's regeneration, but Kaneki's attacks have a good ripping effect, and he can also attack with shock waves that were ground into the dragon's tentacles.

While the same goes for Mercer, due to the difference in AP, Kaneki will be able to take more hits before being absorbed.

I'm not sure about the viability of mid-high regen in Alex's fight, because he liked the external energy source, the luck and the time to recover from the explosion. In the battle with Heller, after he took enough damage and restored his arms three times, his strength was already running out.

However, his stamina is still superior to that of Kaneki. So there is an open question, which will happen faster - Kaneki will turn the enemy into mush, making him incapable of combat, or Mercer exhausts and absorbs the ghoul.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Alex needs to heavily wear out an opponent of his equal in order to absorb. At least this was demonstrated to us throughout all 2 games and the most powerful characters that he absorbed at once are the usual Evolved.

You know that he can literally absorb things on contact as shown in the Comics right? Even more so the Evolved he consumed have Resistance to this ability and he still instantly ****** them with it, so what's stopping him from touching anything Kaneki uses and absorbing it at the Molecular Level?

 

[NikHelton]

You know that he can literally absorb things on contact as shown in the Comics right? Even more so the Evolved he consumed have Resistance to this ability and he still instantly ****** them with it, so what's stopping him from touching anything Kaneki uses and absorbing it at the Molecular Level?

Because it was demonstrated over the course of two games and the game directly tells us to beat the enemy in order to weaken and absorb.
I'm not sure if this is a common limitation of game mechanics, because in that case, we would be presented with an explanation for what other reason we cannot absorb the enemy.

 

[SomaKing13]

This is looking a lot like Mercer is taking this, better regen, applicable hax, at the very least comparable mobility, probably better skills (as he has absorbed at the very minimum dozens of different highly trained soldiers and gained their memories, experiences and the like. While the x2 ap disadvantage is a small setback, its nowhere enough to counter regen, and Mercer can still increase his durability further with things like his shield and armour form.

 

[LordGinSama]

I don't think the kagune will deny Zeus's regeneration, but Kaneki's attacks have a good ripping effect, and he can also attack with shock waves that were ground into the dragon's tentacles.

Yeah the issue being none of that counter's his regeneration. The best regeneration Kaneki ever went against was Mid. Alex can regenerate from a pool of blood.

While the same goes for Mercer, due to the difference in AP, Kaneki will be able to take more hits before being absorbed.

The main issue with this part of the argument is that he'll be screwed as soon as he gets absorbed.

I'm not sure about the viability of mid-high regen in Alex's fight, because he liked the external energy source, the luck and the time to recover from the explosion. In the battle with Heller, after he took enough damage and restored his arms three times, his strength was already running out.

Biomass can be easily absorbed by citizens and other life forms near him.

However, his stamina is still superior to that of Kaneki. So there is an open question, which will happen faster - Kaneki will turn the enemy into mush, making him incapable of combat, or Mercer exhausts and absorbs the ghoul.

Mercer mostly likely exhausts and then absorbs.

 

[NikHelton]

This is looking a lot like Mercer is taking this, better regen, applicable hax, at the very least comparable mobility, probably better skills (as he has absorbed at the very minimum dozens of different highly trained soldiers and gained their memories, experiences and the like. While the x2 ap disadvantage is a small setback, its nowhere enough to counter regen, and Mercer can still increase his durability further with things like his shield and armour form.

The twofold difference already implies the use of armor and musclemass. Without them, the difference is already more than 4 times.

 

[NikHelton]

Biomass can be easily absorbed by citizens and other life forms near him.

There are absolutely no living things on the battlefield except Ken and Alex

 

[LordGinSama]

The twofold difference already implies the use of armor and musclemass. Without them, the difference is already more than 4 times.

He can amp further via Devastators.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

mercers regen isn't dependant on absorption otherwise it would be stated in the prof and it has already been discussed a dozen times and all agree due to the sheer scale of regen from the supreme hunger who managed to regenerate a full hand in a matter of seconds after being turned into a puddle of blood, so no matter what ken does here he simple can't put mercer down or do any and I do mean any significant damage since everything he has is slashes and blunt force nothing that can even overcome high-mid much less mid-high and everything mercer has in his arsenal simply overcomes ken in every damned way. Every time this match comes up even when mercer was heavily downgraded to 8-C he beat ken through being a massive damned smurf.

Hell there was a thread with mercer coming up against sonic a 5-A with hax that could do somthing and yet it was a debtable match, here we have a low 7-C with hax that are worthless in this fight going up against a low 7-C who is just slightly weaker and has deal breaking hax.

This isn't a match its a one sided stomp.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

also just checked the ap values and mercer isn't even two times weaker he is 1.4 times(Ken's ap=2.13ktons /mercer= above 480 tons x 3 times through the muscle mass multiplier= above 1441.2 (if you are wondering why muscle mass is a 3 times multiplier its because after the second upgrade to the muscle mass goes beyond the original 2 times multiplier some(like me) think that its a further 2 times multiplier which would make the ap gap 0 but other belive that its a 50% addition to the 2x base making it a 3x) so the adventages ken has are even lesser

 

[DeathNoodles]

Because it was demonstrated over the course of two games and the game directly tells us to beat the enemy in order to weaken and absorb.
I'm not sure if this is a common limitation of game mechanics, because in that case, we would be presented with an explanation for what other reason we cannot absorb the enemy.

The needing to weaken targets to absorb bit is a logic that are gameplay mechanics at best and are misinterpretation at worst, and they are contradicted by Alex’s feats of absorbing a victim in the Prototype comics via touch and him absorbing several Evolved in Prototype 2 via touch without so much as needing to weaken them. And certain infected, such as Leader Hunters, have resistance against Mercer’s Absorption where they are required to be beaten down and have two of their brains destroyed before they can be absorbed, so it’s not as if Mercer’s Absorption are actually limited to just weakening to absorb the enemy. Ultimately, when it comes down to the contradictory feats of video game characters, Lore > Gameplay mechanics, and his feats in the cutscenes and comics prioritises over gameplay restrictions in this case.

And the extent on Alex Mercer’s regeneration aren’t dependent on how much biomass he has, the amount of biomass he has is only determines his regeneration speed (which is still quite fast even with little to no biomass or not absorbing to boost his regeneration speed). Blacklight characters such as Alex Mercer has shown instances has of regeneration with little to no biomass and without absorbing anything (such as the Supreme Hunter, whom is a being created from Alex’s DNA and inherited Alex’s Shapeshifting and Regeneration, thus any regeneration feats the Supreme Hunter has should have Alex similarly scale to), and the absolute worst that having “less” biomass would do is have them regenerate slower (but still able to regenerate) - in fact, the existence of the “Health Regeneration” upgrades in both Prototype 1 and Prototype 2 both debunks this logic of “Alex needs absorption and high biomass reserves to regenerate, or he can’t regenerate at all”. Alex’s Mercer profile, the recent CRT and several past threads have already addressed and debunked this misinterpretation.

Ken Kaneki can’t do anything against Alex Mercer’s regeneration and his hax here. Anything Ken would do to Alex would become meaningless with Alex’s Mid-High Regeneration, and Alex only needs one touch (either from his hands or any of his biomass such as his tendrils) to absorb Ken Kaneki. This doesn’t even take into consideration that the AP difference is close enough that even the slightest scratch that Alex inflicts to Kaneki with any of his physical attacks would result in all of Kaneki’s molecules in being infected by the Blacklight Virus. This is a stomp.

 

[Harith0cell]

Alex mercer stomp.

 

[NikHelton]

I don't quite agree that Mercer can infinitely regenerate combat, considering that he was weakened in the battle with Heller when he lost his limbs three times, which suggests that the weapon wastes a lot of biomass.

However, I misused the takeover moment, expecting it to weaken the target in order to do so. Then this match is invalid or can we bet Kaneki a defeat?

By the way, does Tatara have a big chance of winning, given that he has a 4000 degree flame in his arsenal?

 

[DeathNoodles]

That’s only through consecutive arm-ripping (which is quite PIS, considering Alex Mercer should’ve had thousands of humans’ worth of biomass fueling him, and that he regenerate at rapid speeds from far worse circumstances than losing arms multiple times in Prototype 2 like his regeneration feats in Prototype 1, but I digress), and even then, the best you should logically conclude from that is that Blacklight characters’ regeneration gets slowed from enough biomass loss, but they will still be capable of regeneration even if they have little biomass reserves and have not absorbed anything. After all, characters derived from the Blacklight Virus such as the Supreme Hunter was capable of regeneration from a puddle without absorbing anything by itself and even the Supreme Hunter was only confident that it can survive the nuclear explosion after absorbing Alex Mercer based on its statements (which heavily implies that its regeneration are likely inferior to Alex Mercer’s, thus Alex should also scale to any regeneration feats the Supreme Hunter has), and Alex has also shown instances of regenerating without needing to absorb anything either as shown in the Prototype 1 cutscenes. And when Heller ripped off Mercer’s arms for the last time in Prototype 2, Mercer was basically given no more than around 20 seconds before Heller absorbed him, which isn’t exactly a long time - so the best you can take feasibly take from this is that Blacklight characters such as Alex can have their regeneration speed lessened by having less biomass reserves, but should still be capable of regeneration anyways (just simply heal slower… That’s it), and Absorption completely bypasses Regeneration within the Prototype series.
So yes, Alex can basically regenerate infinitely without needing biomass as long as the damages inflicted on him does not exceed the scale of his Regeneration given enough time (like basically many fictional characters with regenerative abilities really, such as Wolverine and Deadpool, whom can regenerate infinitely as long as the damages don’t surpass the highest extent their regeneration has demonstrated, or have vital components of their survival that their regeneration can’t recover from being destroyed like their brains or others such as certain High-Mid Regeneration characters or lesser), which is Mid-High. Health Regeneration upgrades are a thing in the Prototype games as well, which supports this notion, on top of the on-screen feats of Regeneration we see in Prototype 1.

Yeah, this match is invalid as it is a stomp, as there is no way for Kaneki to overcome Alex’s regeneration and hax, especially given Kaneki has no useful hax to help give himself any fighting chance against Alex.

Given Alex has Mid-High Regeneration, which is all about regeneration from having your biology incinerated, Tartara would also make no difference against Alex outside of delaying the inevitable using heat-based attacks (which Alex can still regenerate from anyways, even if it takes a bit longer than healing from just physical attacks with blunt force or slashes). And Alex survived direct exposure to the flames of a nuclear explosion several dozens of meters away from ground zero, so I doubt Tartara’s heat-based attacks would fare off any better. The recent CRT that upgraded Alex’s Regeneration to Mid-High has rendered any chances for Tartara to defeat Alex with heat-based attacks to basically nothing.

Alex Mercer’s Regeneration and Hax makes him a character that either stomps or gets stomped with little cases of any fair matches in this site (fair matches as in, there are no stomps on either end between two combatant characters in this site), and I doubt there are any Tokyo Ghoul characters that can have such fair matchups against Alex.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

I don't quite agree that Mercer can infinitely regenerate combat, considering that he was weakened in the battle with Heller when he lost his limbs three times, which suggests that the weapon wastes a lot of biomass.

However, I misused the takeover moment, expecting it to weaken the target in order to do so. Then this match is invalid or can we bet Kaneki a defeat?

By the way, does Tatara have a big chance of winning, given that he has a 4000 degree flame in his arsenal?

This again? We have discussed this topic time and time again mercer couldn't regenerate his arms even though he literally had enough biomass to cover the whole of damned Manhattan near completely that is millions worth of arms.

like hell the whole mercer vs heller fight was PIS of highest order, we have a character who had his powers longer and thus had far more experience in using them a character who was stronger and by most marks smarter then Heller and yet he loses the fight legit feels like he simply threw it, with lines like "move on evolve try something different" when Heller uses any of the same powers as mercer where mercer simply flattens the man with little difficulty.

TL;DR mercer vs Heller fight is PIS due to mercer literally having everything over Heller.

and no terara's 4k degree flames wouldn't give him the win here mercer already withstood a simular level of heat in thermaberic blasts.

 

[NikHelton]

I suppose we should close this thread in this case

I'm wondering who can bet Kaneki against, because I chose Mercer because of their similar ability to transform the body and the same level.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

you can try some monsters from one punch man ken is like demon level

 

[LordGinSama]

Alucard might be an option.

 

[NikHelton]

The only one he can be pitted against is the Pureblood Vampire, because the other demons have either High 7-C or 8-A stats.
The only characters to have Low 7-C are Chosi and Suiryu. However, their AP is barely outside the baseline. But if you don’t consider it a trample, then I can arrange it.

 

[NikHelton]

Alucard might be an option.

Can Kaneki get around Alucard's immortality? If we are talking about Hellsing

 

[Sir_sun_man]

The only one he can be pitted against is the Pureblood Vampire, because the other demons have either High 7-C or 8-A stats.
The only characters to have Low 7-C are Chosi and Suiryu. However, their AP is barely outside the baseline. But if you don’t consider it a trample, then I can arrange it.

i'd say it would be a fair bet against either chosi or suiryu both are heavily skilled so that puts the ap adventage off since both can overcome people way stronger through skill

 

[NikHelton]

CCG fighters have been trained all their lives to fight against creatures that are tens of times stronger than they are physically.
Moreover, Kaneki is Arima's best student, being able to defeat ghouls with a regular umbrella. Of course, Kaneki will be inferior in hand-to-hand combat skills, but he dodges well and moreover, he is an incredible swordsman.