Alex Mercer vs Doomguy

[NikHelton]

• Speed Equalized
• Alex Mercer - Prototype 2 End Game. Prepared for battle.
• Doomguy - DOOM (2016). With all the gear from the 2016 game.
• Place of battle: Red Zone, Manhattan. The zone is filled with biomass and mutants controlled by Mercer.

 

[NikHelton]

Bump

 

[DeathNoodles]

There’s already a matchup like this, and Alex stomps even in his Prototype 1 keys.

Here, this is even more of a stomp with Prototype 2 Alex Mercer, as Mercer will have no qualms with gassing and having the Doom Slayer get infected from his gasses (and any potential air filters won’t do anything to stop the gasses as Mercer’s gasses bypasses filters).

Mercer haxstomps this version of Doom Slayer.

 

[NikHelton]

The demonic presence distorts space, poisoning and transmuting it. Titans generally tear the fabric of reality and time with their presence.
This is all the same effect on matter, but at a higher level. Think is completely immune to this, so I wish him good luck to mutate or absorb the Marine.

 

[DeathNoodles]

Unless I there is a feat that explicitly shows or states that Demons or the Doom Slayer passively corrupt and transmute the matter around them like they can do to space-time, I don’t see Mercer’s gasses being stopped by something that has only been stated to affect space-time and reality. Even abilities such as Reality Warping are completely restricted to the best extent a character has displayed with their feats, and I don’t see Matter Manipulation listed anywhere on Doom Slayer’s profile. And last I’ve checked, I don’t recall the DOOM games ever having ranged attacks being transmuted by this demonic presence. I don’t recall shots from Doom Slayer’s guns being passively by Demons or their attacks being transmuted by Doom Slayer’s presence either, so Doom Slayer would only be able to at best distort reality, space and time to certain extent around him to cause “dimensional anomalies” but will not be able to affect the matter of his opponents’ attacks around him in any direct way based on the scans I’ve seen from the profile. The best evidence I’ve seen from the profile is the environment getting changed by the presence, but nothing is mentioned about the opponents’ attacks.

And gasses are but one of the few ways that Mercer could stomp Doom Slayer with in this matchup. Mercer’s Absorption via touch could also be used to stomp Doom Slayer with, and I don’t think this matchup with this version of Doom Slayer vs Alex Mercer will be any different from the past matchups with Alex Mercer vs Doom Slayer matchups based on the current profiles. From what I can see, the reality distorting presence seems to be combat inapplicable due to lack of further evidence.

It’s either Mercer stomps with Doom Slayer not being in his last key, or Doom Slayer stomps when he’s in his The Ancient Gods key, I doubt there’s any fair matchup between these two characters.

 

[NikHelton]

Demons change their environment by their mere presence, affecting the air, concrete, reality. In Hell, this impact is many times higher, but Dumgai lived there quietly for whole years.
Dumgay is also immune to corruption, which will not allow him to mutate.
I don't understand why you think that some kind of biological manipulation will work when the character is not exposed to influences that distort and tear reality, transmuting it and space. It's just qualitatively higher.
By the same logic, Mercer can absorb Lucifer or cosmic entities. After all, they did not testify their immunity to biological manipulation.

 

[NikHelton]

For exactly the same reasons Mercer will not be able to absorb Dante

 

[DeathNoodles]

Affecting environment does not necessarily mean that attacks can be affected in the process. Last I’ve checked, this presence did jack all from having shots from guns being shot at Demons or the Doom Slayer, and I don’t recall the weapons being stated to have any resistance to this reality-distorting presence like Doom Slayer or the other higher-tiered DOOM characters do.

Having resistance to Reality Warping does not grant necessarily grant resistance to Matter Manipulation or Biological Manipulation. By that logic, having resistance to Existence Erasure would also grant resistance to Matter Manipulation… Which it doesn’t, as answered by other users in the Q&A threads in the past, as both abilities (Existence Erasure and Matter Manipulation) operates in fundamentally different principles despite some users having thoughts that having resistance to abilities being “superior” to other abilities would similarly grant resistance (e.g. resisting Existence Erasure applying to resisting Matter Manipulation, when it actually shouldn’t apply as both are different abilities).

In this site, literally everything, including abilities and resistances, are completely determined by feats. If the Demons and Doom Slayer lacks the feats or statements suggesting they can transmute their adversaries’ attacks with their reality-distorting presence, then they are assumed to not be able to affect their opponent’s attacks. For example, if Character A has resistance to Reality Warping and Space-Time Manipulation but lacks resistance to Biological Manipulation or Matter Manipulation that Character B has, then Character A will be affected by Character B’s biological and matter hax simply because they don’t explicitly have resistance to such abilities.

As for Mercer being able to absorb Lucifer and other cosmic entities in your analogy, not only is that False Equivalency by extrapolating my points, but it does not take into account of any entities not having biological bodies (e.g. having bodies made of pure energy, abstract beings that have abstract bodies, higher dimensional beings with higher dimensional bodies, etc.). Here, this version of Doom Slayer definitely has biological body, and since he lacks any resistance to such abilities based on his profile, then yes he will get affected by Mercer’s hax.

Last I’ve checked, Dante himself is a biological being, and if he lacks any resistance to Biological/Matter hax of Mercer’s level or Absorption on Mercer’s level… Then yes, even Dante can get affected simply because he is a biological creature that lacks the suitable resistance to the hax abilties.

 

[NikHelton]

It looks like a simple hand job. The presence of demons affects reality, matter (organic and not), but does not affect Doomguy. This is more than enough to prevent Mercer from influencing him.

 

[DeathNoodles]

Again, unless you show explicit feats/scans of this demonic presence affecting attacks, Mercer will still be able to use his hax abilities here. Combat inapplicable abilities do exist in this site, and they are mainly due to characters not having enough feats for such abilities. Power Nullification in such a manner (by suggesting the effects of Mercer’s Absorption, Disease Manipulation, Biological Manipulation and Matter Manipulation doesn’t work on Doom Slayer) doesn’t even exist in Doom Slayer’s profile, so I don’t know why you’re arguing this point when it’s not something Doom Slayer even have in his profile.

Last I’ve checked, even characters who are not Doom Slayer has canonically been able to combat Demons with their weapons before, such as Night Sentinels and others (and I doubt they have the resistances that Doom Slayer or several other higher-tiered DOOM characters do). That doesn’t really prove that the reality-distorting presence is combat applicable like you suggest they are…

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Humans in DOOM are mutated enmass by exposure to 'Argent biowaves', which alters their genetic information, and made into servants of Hell:

But the Doom Slayer is immune to that.

 

[DeathNoodles]

Humans in DOOM are mutated enmass by exposure to 'Argent biowaves', which alters their genetic information, and made into servants of Hell:

But the Doom Slayer is immune to that.

I don’t see Biological Manipulation being listed in any of the Demons’ profiles, or Doom Slayer having resistance to that ability. That could be classified as Transmutation rather than Biological Manipulation.
But, if we assume that it involves Biological Manipulation, then that would only be genetic-level Biological Manipulation, whereas Mercer is capable of molecular-level Biological Manipulation, and obviously molecular-level Biological Manipulation > genetic-level Biological Manipulation. So unless Demons can cause molecular biological changes (instead of just genetic/cellular) and Doom Slayer can resist that, Mercer’s Biological Manipulation would overpower that supposed level of resistance that Doom Slayer has.

Additionally, having resistance to Biological Manipulation does not cover all of Mercer’s hax. Mercer’s hax also encompasses Disease Manipulation, which Biological Manipulation alone does not cover when a disease can such as the Blacklight Virus can cause fatal symptoms within the body due to the effects of the disease instead of merely changing the body biologically (which requires feats of resisting the disease of such calibre as well, and not just the Biological Manipulation in that level), and there’s also some Matter Manipulation involved in the mix for what the Blacklight Virus could do. There’s also Mercer’s Absorption, which is an ability in Mercer’s arsenal that is completely seperate from Mercer’s Biological/Disease/Matter Manipulation (as it does not involve manipulating the target, just simply absorbing and assimilating them), and I don’t recall the Demons being able to absorb enemy targets in such a manner or Doom Slayer having resistance to Absorption of such types - unless there are explicit feats/scans of such for Doom Slayer, Mercer can also just absorb the Doom Slayer and be done with it.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Alex ******* Haxrapes this version of the Doom Slayer.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

I don’t see Biological Manipulation being listed in any of the Demons’ profiles, or Doom Slayer having resistance to that ability. That could be classified as Transmutation rather than Biological Manipulation.
But, if we assume that it involves Biological Manipulation, then that would only be genetic-level Biological Manipulation, whereas Mercer is capable of molecular-level Biological Manipulation, and obviously molecular-level Biological Manipulation > genetic-level Biological Manipulation. So unless Demons can cause molecular biological changes (instead of just genetic/cellular) and Doom Slayer can resist that, Mercer’s Biological Manipulation would overpower that supposed level of resistance that Doom Slayer has.

Additionally, having resistance to Biological Manipulation does not cover all of Mercer’s hax. Mercer’s hax also encompasses Disease Manipulation, which Biological Manipulation alone does not cover when a disease can such as the Blacklight Virus can cause fatal symptoms within the body due to the effects of the disease instead of merely changing the body biologically (which requires feats of resisting the disease of such calibre as well, and not just the Biological Manipulation in that level), and there’s also some Matter Manipulation involved in the mix for what the Blacklight Virus could do. There’s also Mercer’s Absorption, which is an ability in Mercer’s arsenal that is completely seperate from Mercer’s Biological/Disease/Matter Manipulation (as it does not involve manipulating the target, just simply absorbing and assimilating them), and I don’t recall the Demons being able to absorb enemy targets in such a manner or Doom Slayer having resistance to Absorption of such types - unless there are explicit feats/scans of such for Doom Slayer, Mercer can also just absorb the Doom Slayer and be done with it.

He has Resistance to Corruption, which involves physical corruption which in turn is often done through Biological Manipulation and Disease Manipulation. While it is neat that Alex can control the virus on the molecular level, this does not mean that his infectious mutation works on the molecular instead of genetic/cellular level. To quote a character from Prototype talking about the virus:

Once insinuated into the system, it affects the protein encoding regions of the promoter introns within each cell. In short, it enters, repurposes and changes the cell. The new cell replicates with formerly dormant non-encoding regions active, causing drastic biological changes. More often than not, these changes are too drastic. In 99.9% of the cases, the biology of the organism fails during this repurposing, causing massive organ failure and death. From first infection to death varies per target, but is usually measured in days or hours.

Demonic influence have been terraforming planet Earth to be inhospitable to terristrial life through the production of bio-contagions and toxins, and the Doom Slayer has no issue passing near through the territory of the nests that spreads these biolgoical diseases:

The Hellgrowth formations on Earth have undergone great scrutiny by experts at the Allied Nations. These cancer-like growths exhibit alarming cellular reproduction rates, outpacing any biological lifeform previously known. Their structural pattern is chaotic, almost random, with only one identifiable constant - the emergence of totem-like nests, which at full maturity, resonate with powerful electromagnetic frequencies capable of producing a form of inverse quantum field. These fields, once activated, result in the fabrication of Hell portals; tears in space-time which serve as gateways between dimensions. The growth exhibits certain pre-determined qualities. In the consumption of our ecosystem, it creates environmental conditions more conducive for its own continued formation; in effect, employing an organic method of terraformation. The resulting environment is hostile to terrestrial life, producing atmospheric toxins and a multitude of environmental hazards. Although it is understood that the growth accelerates the arrival of demon life on Earth, it is not clear how the growths themselves originated, or whether there was some sort of catalyst that created the conditions necessary for their existence. It is believed that if the source of the growth can be identified, there may be a means of uprooting the entire formation.

The subject of great scrutiny for ARC scientists on Earth, these Hellgrowth formations have appeared all over the planet, taking hold wherever Hell has made its presence known. Forming chaotic, seemingly random structural patterns, the propagation of hellgrowth has taken root at an alarming rate, exhibiting a cellular reproduction cycle that ARC scientists fear may become impossible to contain. The resultant environmental effect is extremely hostile to terrestrial life, producing atmospheric bio-contagions and a multitude of organic hazards. Wherever these nest-like formations emerge, they are protected by swathes of defensive tendrils - long thorned tentacles that demonstrate a keen awareness of their surroundings, fully capable of disemboweling anything that it deems a potential threat to the nest.

He also travels through the Blood Swamp which is described as a bog of disease. In gameplay trap pods creates poisonous gas and water does damage over time:

The Blood Swamps stretch across miles of Hell, a festering bog of disease and acidic rain. Towering above the mire, Ingmore's Sanctum rises into the clouds, a solitary vision of Hell's ancient past. Here the Father decreed his wisdom and oversaw his works, and it is here that his life sphere is interred. The Sanctum serves as a mausoleum of Gods, the sanctity of the spheres protected by the ancient ritual known as the Trial of Maligog. During the Unholy Crusade, Night Sentinels would journey alone into the swamps attempting to overcome the Trial and reach the rumored resting place of the great Creator. None succeeded. Legends among the Argenta state that their spirits remain near the grounds of the Trial, bound to it eternally, waiting to witness the one who will be granted passage.

---

It is questionable whether Mercer can absorb the Praetor Suit and Argent Energy. Also he needs to get close first, in other words fight.
Doom Slayer can shoot him with BFG 9000 and be done with it.

 

[DeathNoodles]

He has Resistance to Corruption, which involves physical corruption which in turn is often done through Biological Manipulation and Disease Manipulation. While it is neat that Alex can control the virus on the molecular level, this does not mean that his infectious mutation works on the molecular instead of genetic/cellular level. To quote a character from Prototype talking about the virus:

Once insinuated into the system, it affects the protein encoding regions of the promoter introns within each cell. In short, it enters, repurposes and changes the cell. The new cell replicates with formerly dormant non-encoding regions active, causing drastic biological changes. More often than not, these changes are too drastic. In 99.9% of the cases, the biology of the organism fails during this repurposing, causing massive organ failure and death. From first infection to death varies per target, but is usually measured in days or hours.

Having Resistance to Corruption does not necessarily mean it can resist molecular-level Biological Manipulation, especially when the biological changes you've cited have only shown cellular/genetic level in the scans.

The quote you've listed about the Blacklight Virus only takes into consideration about how the Blacklight Virus initially infects its targets. However, it isn't necessarily the same throughout the games, as the Blacklight Virus rapidly evolves and improves in its capabilities to the point that it became different each time in the Prototype lore. This is evident when the infection being "usually measured in days or hours" was outdated due to the Blacklight Virus being shown to rapidly infect targets within mere seconds by Prototype 2 as one of the various examples. What you've cited has become outdated by the new feats the Blacklight Virus has performed.

And yes, Mercer's Blacklight Virus does infect at the molecular level. It's literally what happened to Whitelight (a liquid inorganic chemical that was created to cure the Blacklight Virus) when Mercer's blood tainted and infected it, which gave Mercer control over all traces of Whitelight Virus in existence at the molecular level - which demonstrates that the Blacklight Virus can infect all traces of the targets at the molecular level (which was what happened to Whitelight) and allow Mercer to gain control over all of the targets' molecules once the Blacklight Virus has infected them; this is also even emphasised further that, despite the infected Whitelight being sublimated into gasses, the gaseous states of Whitelight still infected its targets (which demonstrates that the Blacklight Virus infection is still retained at the molecular level within Whitelight). Even Elizabeth Greene's Redlight Virus, which the Blacklight Virus was created to surpass, was capable of infecting inanimate objects such as entire buildings to the point that she can make the walls of the building such as concrete crumble down or strengthen the integrity of her infected buildings to the point that it takes sustained heavy military attacks and a thermobaric weapon such as the Thermobaric Tank to pierce through, and Mercer has absorbed her and thus should scale to her abilities by default even without taking into consideration that Blacklight Virus is canonically an off-shoot of the Redlight Virus in the Prototype lore (which allows the Blacklight Virus to scale to the Redlight Virus' infection even before Mercer has absorbed Greene, due to the Blacklight Virus being created from the samples of the Redlight Virus but made to be deadlier and overall more superior) - and this was before Mercer has shown his molecular-level infection and manipulation feats later on.

Demonic influence have been terraforming planet Earth to be inhospitable to terristrial life through the production of bio-contagions and toxins, and the Doom Slayer has no issue passing near through the territory of the nests that spreads these biolgoical diseases:

The Hellgrowth formations on Earth have undergone great scrutiny by experts at the Allied Nations. These cancer-like growths exhibit alarming cellular reproduction rates, outpacing any biological lifeform previously known. Their structural pattern is chaotic, almost random, with only one identifiable constant - the emergence of totem-like nests, which at full maturity, resonate with powerful electromagnetic frequencies capable of producing a form of inverse quantum field. These fields, once activated, result in the fabrication of Hell portals; tears in space-time which serve as gateways between dimensions. The growth exhibits certain pre-determined qualities. In the consumption of our ecosystem, it creates environmental conditions more conducive for its own continued formation; in effect, employing an organic method of terraformation. The resulting environment is hostile to terrestrial life, producing atmospheric toxins and a multitude of environmental hazards. Although it is understood that the growth accelerates the arrival of demon life on Earth, it is not clear how the growths themselves originated, or whether there was some sort of catalyst that created the conditions necessary for their existence. It is believed that if the source of the growth can be identified, there may be a means of uprooting the entire formation.

The subject of great scrutiny for ARC scientists on Earth, these Hellgrowth formations have appeared all over the planet, taking hold wherever Hell has made its presence known. Forming chaotic, seemingly random structural patterns, the propagation of hellgrowth has taken root at an alarming rate, exhibiting a cellular reproduction cycle that ARC scientists fear may become impossible to contain. The resultant environmental effect is extremely hostile to terrestrial life, producing atmospheric bio-contagions and a multitude of organic hazards. Wherever these nest-like formations emerge, they are protected by swathes of defensive tendrils - long thorned tentacles that demonstrate a keen awareness of their surroundings, fully capable of disemboweling anything that it deems a potential threat to the nest.

None of these states anything about the adversaries' attacks being affected by the demonic influence (I doubt there are any instances of a demon's presence transmuting an opponent's attack mid-battle). In fact, there aren't even any timeframes shown or stated about the speed that the demonic influence has taken and how combat applicable it is, and all of the terraforming and environment alteration were all done off-screen from what I can recall, so that doesn't really help prove that the demonic presence is really that combat applicable. The bio-contagions does not suggest anything that's molecular-level infection from the Hellgrowths, and from what I can see, the demonic presence causing the manifestation of Hellgrowths does not showcase anything about living targets being affected and altered biologically at the molecular level. And based on what I can see, causing Hellgrowths to form is more of an environmental ability than an actual combat applicable ability. Environment Destruction and similar abilities do exist, where they are assumed to only affect the environment and not actually be applicable to combat such as affecting an enemy combatant or their attacks, and I don't see why such a case is different for the demonic presence. For Doom Slayer resisting such bio-contagions, unless Doom Slayer has shown that he can resist molecular-level diseases, his resistance will be overpowered by Mercer's Blacklight Virus.

He also travels through the Blood Swamp which is described as a bog of disease. In gameplay trap pods creates poisonous gas and water does damage over time:

The Blood Swamps stretch across miles of Hell, a festering bog of disease and acidic rain. Towering above the mire, Ingmore's Sanctum rises into the clouds, a solitary vision of Hell's ancient past. Here the Father decreed his wisdom and oversaw his works, and it is here that his life sphere is interred. The Sanctum serves as a mausoleum of Gods, the sanctity of the spheres protected by the ancient ritual known as the Trial of Maligog. During the Unholy Crusade, Night Sentinels would journey alone into the swamps attempting to overcome the Trial and reach the rumored resting place of the great Creator. None succeeded. Legends among the Argenta state that their spirits remain near the grounds of the Trial, bound to it eternally, waiting to witness the one who will be granted passage.

Again, unless these diseases have shown molecular-level infection, Doom Slayer's resistance will be overpowered by Mercer's Blacklight Virus simply due to the fact that the Blacklight Virus' infection is beyond the best diseases Doom Slayer has endured.

It is questionable whether Mercer can absorb the Praetor Suit and Argent Energy. Also he needs to get close first, in other words fight.
Doom Slayer can shoot him with BFG 9000 and be done with it.

If it still has molecules, then Mercer can still absorb the Prator Suit and the Doom Slayer - and Mercer does not need to absorb Argent Energy when absorbing Doom Slayer and the matter of the Prator Suit is enough for Mercer to stomp in this matchup. As for getting close, that's not going to be a problem when he has tendrils to extend his reach, and he has used tendrils to absorb multiple targets beyond a normal human's arm distance before, such as when he absorbed several of the Evolved.

As for Doom Slayer shooting him with the BFG 9000, Mercer can just regenerate and then get to absorbing the Doom Slayer. Doom Slayer needs more than just the AP of his guns to get past Mercer's regeneration, and that's not even taking into consideration about the fact that even the most powerful of Doom Slayer's own guns (which is 8-A or Multi-City Block level) can be tanked by Mercer based on the current profiles, so Doom Slayer's guns will be ineffective and all he has will be his fists by this point (which may as well be suicide for him by fighting Mercer at close range, as it will lead to him getting infected beyond what he has shown to endure or being absorbed).

 

[Sir_sun_man]

ok as a fan of both franchises and knowledgeble on both I can tell you mercer has every adventage here to beat the slayer

1. the slayer simply doesn't have a way to kill mercer their ap difference and resistences would not allow doomslayer to overcome the mid-high regen
2. the only titan that has been outright stated to alter reality is the icon not the regular shmucks roming about and even if they did it doesn't really show disease resistence on a malecular level so doom guy isn't resisting either mercers absorption or infection so the insta kill is still there for mercer to use.

tl'dr mercer hax stomps by simply being unkillible to this version of doomguy while also having an insta win button on hand.

 

[NikHelton]

Mercer is smashed with every blow and shot by Doomguy.
The mid-high regen is far-fetched and I'm going to mention it in my CRT. There is no reason to believe that it burned to the ground. The argument is the phrase "without a doubt it is." Mercer managed to fly off on video at a distance of 600 meters to 1 km (depending on the helicopter speed data). The temperature at such a distance is not as high as the epicenter, and it simply caught fire, and the remains of its biomass were thrown ashore by the explosion. Low-high is the highest he can count on.

And the biological manipulation of Mercer is just one of the components of the manipulation in hell, in which Doomguy lived for years. It can neither infect the Slayer nor consume it.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Mercer is smashed with every blow and shot by Doomguy.
The mid-high regen is far-fetched and I'm going to mention it in my CRT. There is no reason to believe that it burned to the ground. The argument is the phrase "without a doubt it is." Mercer managed to fly off on video at a distance of 600 meters to 1 km (depending on the helicopter speed data). The temperature at such a distance is not as high as the epicenter, and it simply caught fire, and the remains of its biomass were thrown ashore by the explosion. Low-high is the highest he can count on.

And the biological manipulation of Mercer is just one of the components of the manipulation in hell, in which Doomguy lived for years. It can neither infect the Slayer nor consume it.

people already discussed those points to death mate you can go for it but mercers absolute lowest form of regen is low high which already is too much

 

[NikHelton]

Could you drop the link to the thread that says Mercer doesn't need biomass to regenerate?
Because this moment is opposed by the finals of both parts of the games.

 

[DeathNoodles]

Mercer is smashed with every blow and shot by Doomguy.
The mid-high regen is far-fetched and I'm going to mention it in my CRT. There is no reason to believe that it burned to the ground. The argument is the phrase "without a doubt it is." Mercer managed to fly off on video at a distance of 600 meters to 1 km (depending on the helicopter speed data). The temperature at such a distance is not as high as the epicenter, and it simply caught fire, and the remains of its biomass were thrown ashore by the explosion. Low-high is the highest he can count on.

And the biological manipulation of Mercer is just one of the components of the manipulation in hell, in which Doomguy lived for years. It can neither infect the Slayer nor consume it.

Being smashed with the every blow and shot is irrelevant when this version of Doom Slayer still has no way to permenantly defeat Mercer, especially with the character profiles being the way it currently is. And assuming that the explosion of the nuclear explosion flinging Mercer into ashore, which is definitely more than several dozens of miles away from the shore, is an even bigger assumption than assuming the nuclear fireball has incinerated Mercer (which we see a frame of such happening to Mercer when the nuclear fireball engulfed him) as that's not really how physics work in an object with the mass of a helicopter (which Mercer was inside of). And the nuclear fireball’s fireball epicentre being not as high as it is in the epicentre is irrelevant when such a distance should’ve already well been in the vapourisation range for any ordinary human, and I recall there were threads made previously that have discussed about Heat being treated differently from AP in this site before. Either way, with the profiles being the way they currently are, Doom Slayer “smashing Mercer with every shot” is not really a valid argument when even this version of Doom Slayer’s best guns gets tanked by Mercer, and I’ve already mentioned why it’s basically suicidal for Doom Slayer to fight Mercer at close range.

If you want to argue for Mercer’s AP and Regeneration being lower than the current any further, then save it for the CRTs. As of now, this thread should be debated with only the current profiles being used.

Biological Manipulation being one of the components for the demonic influence Corruption doesn’t matter much when there aren’t any explicit scans or feats that suggests that such corruption affects a target’s biology at the molecular level, so unless Doom Slayer has shown to resist molecular-level infection and molecular-level biological manipulation, he would become infected by Mercer’s Blacklight Virus that overpowers the best he has ever biologically resisted. And I have still yet to see any explicit scans or feats that suggests that this demonic influence Corruption is even combat applicable, what with all the environment terraforming and the overall reality-distortion being done off-screen with no explicit timeframe being mentioned and all (and not even shown to be using such Demonic Presence in combat anywhere).

 

[Sir_sun_man]

also genetic manipulation is never sated to be malecular so still there is a potency difference

 

[DeathNoodles]

Could you drop the link to the thread that says Mercer doesn't need biomass to regenerate?
Because this moment is opposed by the finals of both parts of the games.

Health Regeneration upgrades exists in both Prototype games (which is all about not needing to absorb biomass or possessing biomass to regenerate), Mercer being shown to be able to regenerate from a huge hole in his head without absorbing any biomass, Mercer scaling to the Supreme Hunter (which is a creature created from Mercer’s own DNA and has inherited Mercer’s Shapeshifting and regenerative abilities) whose a being that can regenerate from a puddle without ever absorbing anything, etc.

This point about Blacklight characters’ regeneration has been addressed many times in the past threads, and all these have concluded that Mercer can ultimately not need biomass to regenerate and that he only absorbs biomass to boost his own regenerative speed but ultimately doesn’t need it to actually regenerate.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Could you drop the link to the thread that says Mercer doesn't need biomass to regenerate?
Because this moment is opposed by the finals of both parts of the games.

everysingle thread about regen there are quite a few
while yes there is one anti feat in P2( the p1 is quastionable because all we know is that the crow sped up the regen) but we have mercer regenating chunks of flesh without consumtion when he had a massive hole blown into his head, we have the supreme hunter regenerating a full fore-arm without a need for any biomass and doing so within a matter of second after mercer squashed him.
you can bring up what ever you want it has been discussed dozens of times now.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Health Regeneration upgrades exists in both Prototype games (which is all about not needing to absorb biomass or possessing biomass to regenerate), Mercer being shown to be able to regenerate from a huge hole in his head without absorbing any biomass, Mercer scaling to the Supreme Hunter (which is a creature created from Mercer’s own DNA and has inherited Mercer’s Shapeshifting and regenerative abilities) whose a being that can regenerate from a puddle without ever absorbing anything, etc.

This point about Blacklight characters’ regeneration has been addressed many times in the past threads, and all these have concluded that Mercer can ultimately not need biomass to regenerate and that he only absorbs biomass to boost his own regenerative speed but ultimately doesn’t need it to actually regenerate.

ah **** you beat me to it

 

[NikHelton]

Health Regeneration upgrades exists in both Prototype games (which is all about not needing to absorb biomass or possessing biomass to regenerate), Mercer being shown to be able to regenerate from a huge hole in his head without absorbing any biomass, Mercer scaling to the Supreme Hunter (which is a creature created from Mercer’s own DNA and has inherited Mercer’s Shapeshifting and regenerative abilities) whose a being that can regenerate from a puddle without ever absorbing anything, etc.

This point about Blacklight characters’ regeneration has been addressed many times in the past threads, and all these have concluded that Mercer can ultimately not need biomass to regenerate and that he only absorbs biomass to boost his own regenerative speed but ultimately doesn’t need it to actually regenerate.

Because there is still a supply of biomass in his body. He doesn't have to absorb someone to heal each new wound, because he has absorbed enough mass before.
The fact that the Hunter recovered from the puddle means that he still had stamina for regeneration. After receiving enough damage, he can no longer regenerate and dies.

 

[NikHelton]

ah **** you beat me to it

I'm not saying he needs to absorb someone after every wound. His body already has a reserve of energy and his regeneration is not infinite.
Similarly, Kanaki or Garou regenerates, which can repair wounds during combat, but this consumes a reserve of energy that will need to be replenished again.

 

[DeathNoodles]

Because there is still a supply of biomass in his body. He doesn't have to absorb someone to heal each new wound, because he has absorbed enough mass before.
The fact that the Hunter recovered from the puddle means that he still had stamina for regeneration. After receiving enough damage, he can no longer regenerate and dies.

That is an assumption that you have made, and the Supreme Hunter literally has not absorbed anything, and yet it still regenerated anyways (a feat which Mercer scales to as Alex Mercer's shapeshifting and regenerative abilities were all templates that the Supreme Hunter is derived from upon being created by Alex Mercer's own DNA)... That feat alone completely contradicts your assumption of having a supply of biomass beforehand to regenerate, as the Supreme Hunter was just created and hasn't absorbed anything and was able to regenerate without any biomass beforehand when Alex has beat it into a puddle... And the existence of Health Regeneration upgrades also contradicts such an assumption, as the Health Regeneration mechanic is able to work when Alex or James has not absorbed anything and has no Critical Mass (on gameplay). As for the Supreme Hunter dying, it was not shown or ever stated about what happened after the Supreme Hunter's defeat - it could be that the Supreme Hunter was killed off after its decapitation, that it was absorbed by Mercer after he has decapitated it, or that the Supreme Hunter's remains were destroyed to prevent it from regenerating and we'll never know. Either way, it doesn't change the fact that we see a feat of the Supreme Hunter regenerating from a puddle without needing any biomass beforehand.

And past threads, including Q&A and Content Revision threads on this site, have concluded with treating Stamina and Regeneration as different. Regeneration and Stamina do not necessarily scale to each other, as there are cases in Fiction where characters are exhausted and yet are able to regenerate or characters have stamina left and yet their regenerative abilities have reached their respective limits. Bleach threads that have discussed the Regeneration of certain characters, such as Aizen for example, have made such a distinction between Regeneration and Stamina not necessarily scale to each other.

 

[DeathNoodles]

I'm not saying he needs to absorb someone after every wound. His body already has a reserve of energy and his regeneration is not infinite.
Similarly, Kanaki or Garou regenerates, which can repair wounds during combat, but this consumes a reserve of energy that will need to be replenished again.

Alex Mercer isn't Kaneki or Garou. If these two have limitations to their regenerative abilities that are present within their series, then it does not necessarily mean that it applies to characters from other series. Again, Regeneration and Stamina aren't necessarily linked to each other as discussed in the past threads within this site. If there are examples of certain series having characters' regeneration being linked to their stamina, then it would only apply to those series and not necessarily to others.

And you're not exactly correct by saying Mercer's regeneration isn't infinite. That's basically how Regeneration is treated by most fictional series for characters with higher-tiered Regeneration, where their regeneration are effectively infinite (by infinite, I meant as in regeneration process doesn't stop and will keep on continuing) as long as they don't receive damage that overcomes the best extent their regeneration can cover, such as the case for Wolverine and Deadpool (e.g. Wolverine's Mid Regeneration allowing him to regenerate from anything as long as he isn't decapitated/suffocated or his brain isn't destroyed, thus he should be able to recover from anything as long as such doesn't occur to him that overcomes his Mid regeneration. Or Deadpool, with an even better Regeneration than Wolverine, can regenerate as long as he doesn't get vapourised/atomised, due to such overcoming his Mid-High regeneration overtime, to the point that he could even regenerate from ashes within a few hours). Exceptions to such are only when certain series have their characters have specific limitations to their Regeneration that are made explicit (e.g. Can't regenerate when their source of power that allows them to regenerate is gone), but such are exceptions and thus are not the rule.

 

[NikHelton]

We have two moments when god-tier characters die when they lose resources for regeneration.
However, you call it just my guess, at the same time saying that Mercer can regenerate forever because it has filled a hole in the head. This is absurd.
We have both finales screaming that their regen is not eternal and has its own reserves, however, on this wiki everyone wants to see an invincible character.

 

[DeathNoodles]

We have two moments when god-tier characters die when they lose resources for regeneration.
However, you call it just my guess, at the same time saying that Mercer can regenerate forever because it has filled a hole in the head. This is absurd.
We have both finales screaming that their regen is not eternal and has its own reserves, however, on this wiki everyone wants to see an invincible character.

This has been discussed in the previous Prototype threads many times, and it was ultimately concluded that the Blacklight characters only utilises biomass to boost their regeneration's speed but does not need biomass for their regeneration process. Regeneration being implied to continue forever as long as the characters don't receive damage that completely overcomes the best extent their level of regeneration has showcased isn't absurd like you think it is, especially when such is effectively how fictional characters with higher-tiered Regeneration operate within Fiction (thus basically becomes the default assumption).

In Prototype 1, there was no exact timeframe for when the nuclear fireball engulfed and incinerated Alex Mercer to when he regenerated from the Crow's biomass boosting his regeneration speed, and what has led to the Supreme Hunter's death after its decapitation is unknown. All we know is that the nuclear explosion scene happened at night and that Alex Mercer regenerated at night, thus Alex Mercer regenerated in the same night using the logic of Occam's razor. In Prototype 2, Mercer has shown to be able to regenerate his arms being ripped out multiple times until Heller has ripped it off for the final time, and Mercer was given no more than around 20 seconds until Heller has sliced him apart and absorbed him (which wasn't exactly that much of a time for Mercer to regenerate). Again, this Note in Alex Mercer's profile explains it all: "On that note, his regeneration capabilities aren't reduced by the amount of biomass he has, but his regeneration speed is."

The regenerative abilities of Blacklight characters were made clear that their regeneration speed isn't as fast as when they absorbed biomass, but it is also made clear that such characters can regenerate without needing biomass when given enough time based on several instances. Those two anti-feats you've mentioned are covered by regeneration speed being reduced when great enough damage is inflicted, but that does not necessarily mean that the entire regeneration process stops when we see evidence of that being the contrary.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Is there a source that Whitelight is an "inorganic chemical"? I don't recall its composition being elaborated on. What I know is that it is able to cure humans infected by Blacklight, it is dangerous to Evolved, and Dr. Archer sabotaged the project by injecting Alex's blood so it can act as a culture that propagates and eventually convert the Whitelight deposits.
Being inorganic is a big deal as it implies that Blacklight no longer needs organic matter in order to feed and grow.

If sprouting on the surface of walls and damaging their structural integrity, and making walls of strong organic mass is molecular level infection, then Hellgrowth has molecular level Biological Manipulation.

Is there an example of Alex absorbing a large amont of metal? (I know that Blacklight can replicate clothes and metal)
The Praetor Suit channels Argent Energy. Why wouldn't Alex encounter it assuming he theortically attempts absorbing the suit?

Alex can get incapitated by mutilating injuries even he can eventually regenerate from them, and he'll need to absorb bio mass in order to quicken his regeneration. The Supreme Hunter got produced to puddle just from being hit hard. If Alex is incapitated it is a matter of finishing what remains of him off.

As confirmed by the game director Hugo Martin, the Doom Slayer magically enchances the weapons he is carrying but this is not reflected in gameplay due to balance. During Ancient Gods, we see him point and use his shotgun at the multiverse's creator Davoth, and Titans who are stated to be 'invincible' and 'indestructible' against conventional weapons were canonically torn apart by the Doom Slayer using his "guns and fists" before he got the Praetor Suit.
Also, the nuke anti-feat suggests that Mercer is vulnerable to extreme heat, which makes the BFG 9000 all the more effective.

 

[DeathNoodles]

In Prototype 2, we see clear cutscenes of clear liquids in the memories every time Whitelight is mentioned with no mention of such liquids ever coming from organic sources from what I can recall, along with it being stored in barrels and containers/deposits that commonly indicates inorganic chemicals. Considering we know that Bloodtox is definitely inorganic in Prototype 1 and that Whitelight is being stored in the same way as Bloodtox suggests that Whitelight is also a type of inorganic chemical as well - though Whitelight’s composition is irrelevant considering Blacklight Virus already scales for affecting inorganic objects. Infecting inorganic matter is a feat already done by the Redlight Virus, which the Blacklight Virus already scales to.

The Hives (buildings infected by Redlight Virus) having tendrils being inside of the walls and even have everything inside the infected building from the walls to the ground have tendrils being deeply embedded inside them is quite evident that it's more than just "sprouting on the surface" - merely sprouting on the surface wouldn't have had the building walls being durable enough to withstand heavy military attacks that also includes Attack Helicopters and M1 Abrams tanks (which ordinary walls definitely aren't durable enough to withstand), so for the integrity of the building to be enhanced as it was explicitly stated, it is definitely implied that the very structure of the buildings themselves are affected by the Redlight Virus infection. Unless those Hellgrowths are explicitly done by Biological Manipulation on living beings, that isn’t molecular level Biological Manipulation, and I from what I can see, Hellgrowths are caused by Reality Warping by appearing from nowhere from demonic presence off-screen rather than from Matter Manipulation of pre-existing objects based on the scans you’ve cited, and the diseases mentioned in those scans does not suggest anything that’s of molecular-level infection - thus, I heavily doubt causing Hellgrowths to manifest would directly scale to biologically altering living beings’ biology or the diseases that popped up from those hazardous environment. Unless the Biological Manipulation or similar feats are explicitly described to affect all molecules of the targets like the Blacklight Virus does, that isn’t really an explicit feat/scan of molecular-level Biological Manipulation. At best, it’s genetic/cellular level Biological Manipulation based on those humans being made into servants of hell via rewriting genetic information (which Doom Slayer would only be scaling to at the very best, and even then such seems to be quite questionable considering there’s no mention of Doom Slayer having resistance to Disease/Biological Manipulation anywhere in his profile or even any mentions of him resisting a Demon’s off-screen reality-distorting demonic influence anywhere), which Mercer can overpower with his Molecular-level infection and molecular-level Biological Manipulation.

As for Mercer absorbing large amounts of metals, that happens when Blacklight characters absorbed the military armour of Blackwatch soldiers and replicated even everything from the clothing, including the gas masks, the LED of the masks, and even electronic devices such as radios being absorbed and mimicked to the point that it could communicate like how radios normally does. Even the properties of Hazmat Suits are replicated by the Blacklight characters’ Absorption, such as when James Heller used a Hazmat Suit disguise (that he has gotten from absorbing a person in a Hazmat Suit) to protect him from getting affecting by Bloodtox gasses in Prototype 2. The claws and blades of Blacklight characters being metallic when they shapeshift their arms into such for combat also demonstrates that they can replicate metals with their Shapeshifting (and the Blacklight characters’ Shapeshifting and Absorption are quite interconnected in the Prototype series) as well.

As for the Argent Energy of the Praetor suit, that's because he wouldn't be dabbling with energy, only matter of the Praetor suit and Doom Slayer himself within the suit. Though he can also just as easily just infect Doom Slayer and the Praetor suit at a distance if he needs to.

Being temporarily incapacitated by severe injuries is irrelevant when Mercer should be able to recover well enough on his own without needing to absorb anything after a couple of moments, especially based on Mercer scaling to the Supreme Hunter (a being created from Mercer’s own DNA and has inherited Mercer’s Shapeshifting and regenerative abilities) that can reform a hand-sized worth of biomass from a puddle within only mere seconds (suggesting a similar timeframe for other it’s other body parts to reform) without ever having any biomass before hand. The Supreme Hunter being reduced to a puddle was heavily implied to have happened off-sceeen, especially given we only see it collapsing when Mercer defeated it in the gameplay.
And Doom Slayer would need to get through thousands of humans worth of biomass for Mercer to ever have his regeneration slow down, and even then, that wouldn’t stop Mercer from rapidly regenerating within moments based on the Supreme Hunter’s feat.

Doom Slayer’s magically enhanced weapons are still 8-A for the most powerful weapons in Doom Slayer’s Doom 2016 key based on his current profile. Bringing in The Ancient Gods feats are completely irrelevant in this thread when that version of Doom Slayer isn’t being used, and that this thread uses 2016 Doom Slayer (who has not shown that his guns scale to his own physical AP like his The Ancient Gods key do), so I don’t even know why you’re bringing that up for Doom Slayer when The Ancient Gods feats aren’t being used for this thread.

As for the nuke explosion scene, that’s only due to the temperature of the nuclear fireball surpassing Mercer’s own heat resistance. Before the nuke, blasts from thermobaric weapons was endured by Mercer and thermobaric weapons could reach up to high temperatures as high as little over 1900 degrees Celsius. Unless Doom Slayer’s BFG9000 has an explicit statement/scan that mentions an explicit temperature value for the BFG9000 blasts, that isn’t really a good argument to suggest that Mercer can’t endure the temperature of those blasts.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Bump? Is this still considered as stomp or what?

 

[Axxtentacle]

Probably a stomp for Alex still.

 

[NikHelton]

Alex does not have the ability to absorb or infect Doomguy, as he has experienced much higher quality impacts.
A few shots at the Mercer from a powerful weapon and he is already incapacitated, unable to recover as quickly as before.

 

[DeathNoodles]

Alex does not have the ability to absorb or infect Doomguy, as he has experienced much higher quality impacts.
A few shots at the Mercer from a powerful weapon and he is already incapacitated, unable to recover as quickly as before.

Yes he can, especially with Doomguy's lack of sufficient scans proving he has the sufficient resistances to do so (even with this demonic influence that is mainly off-screen and combat inapplicable), and nothing about those scans suggests Doomguy experienced Disease Manipulation, Absorption, Biological Manipulation and Matter Manipulation on the explicit scale Mercer possesses. You can try to repeat this point as many times as you want, but none of this has addressed that Doomguy lacks the sufficient scans to get past Mercer's hax through the Absorption or the Blacklight infection.

Again, Doomguy would need to go through thousands of humans worth of biomass before Mercer's regeneration can slow down, and Doomguy's most powerful weapon is at an 8-A AP value below Mercer's own AP based on current profiles. Doom Slayer's 2016 key only has 8-A for his most powerful weapons, and they aren't doing anything against Mercer with current profile standards. And I'm pretty sure I have already told you about this site's universal standards about using current profiles for characters in Versus forums. Even assuming Mercer doesn't have thousands of humans worth of biomass that Doom Slayer needs to go through, he can still regenerate rapidly within moments via scaling to Supreme Hunter's feats (who has regenerated without biomass). This matchup isn't going to be anything more than a stomp with the way it is now.

Even excluding Mercer's own AP, there is no scans that gives an explicit temperature value of Doom Slayer's BFG9000 blasts, so Mercer can simply withstand the BFG9000 via his own feat of enduring thermobaric weapons based on that alone.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Alex does not have the ability to absorb or infect Doomguy, as he has experienced much higher quality impacts.
A few shots at the Mercer from a powerful weapon and he is already incapacitated, unable to recover as quickly as before.

no

 

[Axxtentacle]

Disease Manipulation, Absorption, Biological Manipulation and Matter Manipulation on the explicit scale Mercer possesses

He has experienced them pretty strongly but it's entirely unquantifiable, so it would just be unfair to say that he can deal with Mercer's.

 

[NikHelton]

нет

Yeah)

 

[NikHelton]

He has experienced them pretty strongly but it's entirely unquantifiable, so it would just be unfair to say that he can deal with Mercer's.

Dooms ignores the impact that affects both organics, inorganics, and space and matter. It's just a higher quality level.