- 10,518
- 11,623
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Aleister Crowley vs Kumoko
- Thread starter DontTalkDT
- Start date
- 10,518
- 11,623
- Thread starter
- #3
These two things shouldn't do a lot against low-godly regen. At least as far as the effects we have been shown go.
She could probably negate them with evil eye of gluttony, though.
She could probably negate them with evil eye of gluttony, though.
- 10,518
- 11,623
- Thread starter
- #5
For the Karma magic you can argue that it wouldn't get negated, but it would really do nothing since it only deals physical damage which is basically irrelevant against Kumoko.
Interact in which respect? For the most part you would assume magic in one verse is magic in the other. (And self sustaining magic in index usually draws from an external powersource)
Interact in which respect? For the most part you would assume magic in one verse is magic in the other. (And self sustaining magic in index usually draws from an external powersource)
- 2,527
- 238
I mean the karmic haze not the beasts, it would slowly envelop her as she tries to negate them, infinitely self-sustaining pretty much leading to a BFR as even with teleportation she can't remove the haze
interactions like innocentius, they are self-sustaining or like the example above, karma magic It should be noted that the magical energy is directly situated in the soul of the opponent in the series, but in index is a bit different
interactions like innocentius, they are self-sustaining or like the example above, karma magic It should be noted that the magical energy is directly situated in the soul of the opponent in the series, but in index is a bit different
- 3,462
- 794
Aleistar nukes the universe.
- 10,518
- 11,623
- Thread starter
- #8
@Malox1696: The haze itself has no known effect. Simply being sourrounded by a haze is no BFR, it just makes things foggy.
In index magic is powered by the magicians lifeforce, which gets refined into mana, by the magical powers of earth (e.g. original grimoires) or are items which are powered by a tiny fraction of the power of other powerful entities (e.g. the curtana uses the power of archangel michael instead of that from the caster). As far as I am aware there isn't any spell that officially works without energy source (albeit the efficiency of energy usage varies greatly).
@Blackcurrant91: Aleisters universe busting isn't of the kind that would get past low-godly regen. It merely vaporizes the target.
In index magic is powered by the magicians lifeforce, which gets refined into mana, by the magical powers of earth (e.g. original grimoires) or are items which are powered by a tiny fraction of the power of other powerful entities (e.g. the curtana uses the power of archangel michael instead of that from the caster). As far as I am aware there isn't any spell that officially works without energy source (albeit the efficiency of energy usage varies greatly).
@Blackcurrant91: Aleisters universe busting isn't of the kind that would get past low-godly regen. It merely vaporizes the target.
- 2,527
- 238
Yes but generally things like innocents are self-sustaining after the initial cost, and the haze is more than just fog, it's more similar to a fluid and gets thicker and "stronger" the more u destroy it, at some point it would pretty much encase her and "seal" her as she should not be able to interact with anything (see or go out) at that point she would technically be out of the fight
- 10,518
- 11,623
- Thread starter
- #10
I don't know where exactly you get the idea that the haze could do that from. Given that Kumoko can fight using just clones, switch to a new body, move around with space magic, see with clairvoyance, create a power nullifying space and just kill Aleister to end the spell it wouldn't really work either way, though.
Innocentius is self sustaining in it maybe not using power from the caster, but it has a limited amount of power given to it by the idol principle. In any case, does this have relevance?
Innocentius is self sustaining in it maybe not using power from the caster, but it has a limited amount of power given to it by the idol principle. In any case, does this have relevance?
- 2,527
- 238
yes cause the haze does that it's not an idea, that was the point of it to counter IB, it's like a fluid around u, it follows u so no running away and the simple counter is to actually do nothing against it as it harmless but obv the opponent does not have a library of magic with her, and karma too is self-sustaining
"So what happens to me with this stuff around me…?"
"I don't know. But the more it happens, the more powerful and thicker it will grow. You can punch through a single piece of paper with a fingertip, but enough layers of paper can stop a bullet."
Kamijou pictured himself being forced to wear ten or even a hundred layers of clothing. Just how much weight and pain would they bring? It was possible he would be rendered immobile
"So what happens to me with this stuff around me…?"
"I don't know. But the more it happens, the more powerful and thicker it will grow. You can punch through a single piece of paper with a fingertip, but enough layers of paper can stop a bullet."
Kamijou pictured himself being forced to wear ten or even a hundred layers of clothing. Just how much weight and pain would they bring? It was possible he would be rendered immobile
- 10,518
- 11,623
- Thread starter
- #12
Hmm... interesting.
Still, it will not do anything relevant to Shiro. It won't cancel teleportation, so Shiro's main method of movement remains. She doesn't fight physically, she it won't stop her attacks. She can see through things, so it won't impend her vision. All in all it's a minor inconvenience to her, not incapacitation or anything like that.
Not to mention that switching bodies quite possibly gets her out of it entirely.
(I also wouldn't count on her not analyzing it. She has analyzed and replicated magic by just viewing it once in the past)
Still, it will not do anything relevant to Shiro. It won't cancel teleportation, so Shiro's main method of movement remains. She doesn't fight physically, she it won't stop her attacks. She can see through things, so it won't impend her vision. All in all it's a minor inconvenience to her, not incapacitation or anything like that.
Not to mention that switching bodies quite possibly gets her out of it entirely.
(I also wouldn't count on her not analyzing it. She has analyzed and replicated magic by just viewing it once in the past)
- 2,527
- 238
yes but haze will still be on her when she moves, and it will obv block vision and movement
btw the profile mentions she loses that skill when she hack the system
and if we go full universe equalization then yes her analysis would work, but the same would apply to aleister and magic intercept and then it would easily lead to a stomp (as the other universe does not even have the concept of magic intercept)
going by half-and-half equalization would be better as both only get partial information and both universe rules would work
btw we are counting the fact that aleister can kill immortal being right ? cause if not then the match is moth
btw the profile mentions she loses that skill when she hack the system
and if we go full universe equalization then yes her analysis would work, but the same would apply to aleister and magic intercept and then it would easily lead to a stomp (as the other universe does not even have the concept of magic intercept)
going by half-and-half equalization would be better as both only get partial information and both universe rules would work
btw we are counting the fact that aleister can kill immortal being right ? cause if not then the match is moth
- 3,462
- 794
Can Kumo exist the remains of a destroyed universe? because Alestair can. Not to mention if she survives his universe busting (which she would) his next attack would be universe busting times 10 because of blasting rod.
- 10,518
- 11,623
- Thread starter
- #15
Haze doesn't block vision, because clairvoyance is still a thing. Neither is movement effectively blocked, as instead of physically moving she can just teleport.
Spiritual tripping only affects the target. Aleister isn't actually destroying the universe.... heck, destroying the physical matter of the universe would be irrelevant, as Kumoko can just live in her pocket dimensions.btw the profile mentions she loses that skill when she hack the system What? For one thing she looses no skill from hacking the system. She looses some skills from becoming a god said:
- 3,462
- 794
Yeah you're right. I was also misunderstanding how blasting rod works.
- 3,462
- 794
I think Kumo takes this as much as I hate to say it. Her wall of text is much better.
- 3,462
- 794
Archetype controller is extremely specific. Could he mess with Kumo's system of magic with it?
- 3,462
- 794
Has he ever used it for that though?
- 3,462
- 794
Who in Toaru did Aleister use mind hax on?
- 63,487
- 8,486
Not using mindhax is CIS, not PIS.
The former of which absolutely applies to an in character fight
The former of which absolutely applies to an in character fight
- 7,847
- 2,430
I consider a case of PIS, because if he simply ended any conflict with just one skill, there would be no story, not to mention that Noukan mentioned that thanks to this power Aleister had an influence on the magic side until today, so there is nothing stopping him from using that power.
- 63,487
- 8,486
Plot induced stupidity is when a contradiction overview for the sake of the plot
If someone simply doesn't use an ability, that's not a contradiction, that's in written CIS,
If someone simply doesn't use an ability, that's not a contradiction, that's in written CIS,
- 3,462
- 794
Why does Aleister have mind hax if he has no feats of using conceptual manipulation to do it? I could be missing something.
- 11
- 1
Aleister used the Archetype Controller on Kihara Enshuu in NT 15. He has feats of using it but hasn't used it before in an actual fight for whatever reason.Blackcurrant91 said:
- 11
- 1
Also Aleister's Spiritual Tripping has feats of destroying non-phyisical energies like when he destroyed Coronzon's influence inside Fran in NT 19. So it is likely that his magic can destroy souls. With Coronzon's body too it shouldn't be a problem since demons in To Aru can possess souls.
- 26
- 1
Firs things first, does Aleister at that version, have Resistance to Shiraori's eyes? Once she looks at him she absorbs his power, seal his movement (he will be put in a time stop like state where no matter what she does to him he won't remember and can't react). Blocking her vision is useless as well. (I didn't see a mention of what her eyes do and don't know a lot about Aleister, so I brought it up regardless)
I saw a mention above saying that the Eye of Gluttony "negates" stuff. It doesn't negate stuff, it absorbs the energy behind the spell thus making it unable to be used. In fact, with her Dimensional Rift + Eyes of Gluttony strategy, she can absorb the energy from magic before it is used and also absorb the soul energy of the opponent instantly killing them (Unless Aleister has resistance to this) and gaining more power for herself. This effect, although it would take a lot of time, can be used on Administrator Gūliedistodoez who has high resistance to basically everything because of his Dragon origin and can be used under nullification.
Destroying Non-Physical energies doesn't mean he can destroy the soul, unless it has feats of doing so. Possession proved pretty unfortunate for the last person who tried to do so, since they got their souls consumed and their powers went back to Shiraori. At the time, she had only 6 (not sure, but it's close to six) parallel minds, but now she controls thousands of clones.
Edit: I saw someone mentioning something about Haze, which obstructs vision and movement. Obstruction of vision and movement is useless Vs Shiraori, as the other guy explained. And while Eyes of Gluttony aren't nullification, she has a passive field of nullification around her and can BFR people to her dimension (which nulls physicals and powers) or change the space around her into her dimension. And, as mentioned above, she can instantly Regen from attacks with her Low Godly Regen.
Again, I ain't knowledgeable on Toaru and I wanted to explain Shiraori's powers.
I saw a mention above saying that the Eye of Gluttony "negates" stuff. It doesn't negate stuff, it absorbs the energy behind the spell thus making it unable to be used. In fact, with her Dimensional Rift + Eyes of Gluttony strategy, she can absorb the energy from magic before it is used and also absorb the soul energy of the opponent instantly killing them (Unless Aleister has resistance to this) and gaining more power for herself. This effect, although it would take a lot of time, can be used on Administrator Gūliedistodoez who has high resistance to basically everything because of his Dragon origin and can be used under nullification.
Destroying Non-Physical energies doesn't mean he can destroy the soul, unless it has feats of doing so. Possession proved pretty unfortunate for the last person who tried to do so, since they got their souls consumed and their powers went back to Shiraori. At the time, she had only 6 (not sure, but it's close to six) parallel minds, but now she controls thousands of clones.
Edit: I saw someone mentioning something about Haze, which obstructs vision and movement. Obstruction of vision and movement is useless Vs Shiraori, as the other guy explained. And while Eyes of Gluttony aren't nullification, she has a passive field of nullification around her and can BFR people to her dimension (which nulls physicals and powers) or change the space around her into her dimension. And, as mentioned above, she can instantly Regen from attacks with her Low Godly Regen.
Again, I ain't knowledgeable on Toaru and I wanted to explain Shiraori's powers.
