Akira calculation revision

[Whycantinamemyself]

A calc for tetsuo that put him at 1.34 exatons was rejected because the reason “The second method doesn't really work does it? If they were moving at the escape velocity they wouldn't be orbiting the moon they would be moving away”

except we can see debris falling to earth meaning they were launched at or faster than escape velocity, making it usable.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Only a minuscule fraction of the debris fell to Earth. The scene in which the storm occurs on Earth and the glass-sized fragments of crust crash into Earth and the satellites come before the wide shot of the Moon, showcasing the ring of debris. Majority of the debris remained in space. Furthermore, Tetsuo is only explicitly shown blowing a hole in the Moon, and the official story summary up to Volume 6 only mentions that "Tetsuo [tore] an immense crater in the moon". Even if the circumstances for using kinetic energy were sound, the second method relies more on assumptions than facts.

 

[Whycantinamemyself]

Only a minuscule fraction of the debris fell to Earth. The scene in which the storm occurs on Earth and the glass-sized fragments of crust crash into Earth and the satellites come before the wide shot of the Moon, showcasing the ring of debris. Majority of the debris remained in space. Furthermore, Tetsuo is only explicitly shown blowing a hole in the Moon, and the official story summary up to Volume 6 only mentions that "Tetsuo [tore] an immense crater in the moon". Even if the circumstances for using kinetic energy were sound, the second method relies more on assumptions than facts.

It doesn’t matter if only a few fragments got away. If any at all made it to Earth then that means the explosion was strong enough to launch them to earth. It doesn’t make sense that only a few pieces would travel to Earth, you don’t really get to pick and choose like that. It seems more like it to me that Tetsuo created the ring with all the facts in mind.

 

[Whycantinamemyself]

Only a minuscule fraction of the debris fell to Earth. The scene in which the storm occurs on Earth and the glass-sized fragments of crust crash into Earth and the satellites come before the wide shot of the Moon, showcasing the ring of debris. Majority of the debris remained in space. Furthermore, Tetsuo is only explicitly shown blowing a hole in the Moon, and the official story summary up to Volume 6 only mentions that "Tetsuo [tore] an immense crater in the moon". Even if the circumstances for using kinetic energy were sound, the second method relies more on assumptions than facts.

And using those scans, why would the debris just remain in orbit? Why would they not fall back down to the moon if they didn’t reach escape velocity. Something must have gave them a shit ton of tangential velocity to keep them in a stable orbit.

 

[Whycantinamemyself]

Bump

 

[Nullflowerblush]

If any at all made it to Earth then that means the explosion was strong enough to launch them to earth.

The calculation relies on the assumption that the mass of the entire crater travelled at escape velocity. This is evidently incorrect, as the bulk of the debris from the pulverized crater is explicitly shown orbiting around the Moon, meaning escape velocity is invalid.

you don’t really get to pick and choose like that.

Again, assumptions, assumptions. I'm not the one picking and choosing here. The manga is picking and choosing. We see both a few tiny fragments crash into Earth and an entire ring of debris around the Moon. In order to apply the kinetic energy formula to the entirety of the ring, we would need proof that the entirety of the ring left the orbit of the Moon and travelled off into space or into Earth. This is evidently incorrect.

 

[Whycantinamemyself]

The calculation relies on the assumption that the mass of the entire crater travelled at escape velocity. This is evidently incorrect, as the bulk of the debris from the pulverized crater is explicitly shown orbiting around the Moon, meaning escape velocity is invalid.

Why would only some debris fall but not the others? The manga picks and chooses sure but there must be a reason only a fraction of the debris reaches earth and not the others.

Again, assumptions, assumptions. I'm not the one picking and choosing here. The manga is picking and choosing. We see both a few tiny fragments crash into Earth and an entire ring of debris around the Moon. In order to apply the kinetic energy formula to the entirety of the ring, we would need proof that the entirety of the ring left the orbit of the Moon and travelled off into space or into Earth. This is evidently incorrect.

So the arguement is that because we don’t have any evidence of the entire mass of debris was launched into space at escape velocity, which is a fair argument. The main point is the ring itself, why would the ring form in the first place? The debris is catapulted straight up in the air, if indeed it didn’t reach escape velocity, then eventually gravity would make all of it rain back down on the moon. This is backed up again as we see the debris traveling upwards with the explosion but the thing is in the very next panel a ring begins to form. In order for a ring to form then the debris would have to have not only been traveling up very fast, but to the side as well. As there is seemingly no sideways force applied to the debris to it into orbit, if it indeed were just left by tetsuo it would have simply fell to the surface. Instead it moves sideways for “no reason” and forms a ring, which in itself is stationed quite far from the moon. That’s not even touching on the timeframe, which is no longer than an hour, a ring couldn’t possibly form that fast. An outside force must have acted on the debris in order for it to form, Tetsuo must have made the ring by stopping the debris from escaping the moon and forming it into a ring. This also would explain why only some debris rains down to Earth and is a logical explanation.

 

[Whycantinamemyself]

Why would only some debris fall but not the others? The manga picks and chooses sure but there must be a reason only a fraction of the debris reaches earth and not the others.

So the arguement is that because we don’t have any evidence of the entire mass of debris was launched into space at escape velocity, which is a fair argument. The main point is the ring itself, why would the ring form in the first place? The debris is catapulted straight up in the air, if indeed it didn’t reach escape velocity, then eventually gravity would make all of it rain back down on the moon. This is backed up again as we see the debris traveling upwards with the explosion but the thing is in the very next panel a ring begins to form. In order for a ring to form then the debris would have to have not only been traveling up very fast, but to the side as well. As there is seemingly no sideways force applied to the debris to it into orbit, if it indeed were just left by tetsuo it would have simply fell to the surface. Instead it moves sideways for “no reason” and forms a ring, which in itself is stationed quite far from the moon. That’s not even touching on the timeframe, which is no longer than an hour, a ring couldn’t possibly form that fast. An outside force must have acted on the debris in order for it to form, Tetsuo must have made the ring by stopping the debris from escaping the moon and forming it into a ring. This also would explain why only some debris rains down to Earth and is a logical explanation.

In fact the ring itself may be an outlier cause not only is it never seen after miyako mentions it, but it is also never mentioned in any of the summaries. Though that’s a stretch.

 

[Antvasima]

Nullflowerblush seems to make sense to me above. However, the first method in the blog seems to have been accepted for use.

@Legion350 @DemonGodMitchAubin @Armorchompy @Wokistan

What do you think?

 

[Whycantinamemyself]

Nullflowerblush seems to make sense to me above. However, the first method in the blog seems to have been accepted for use.

I’m saying the second one would make sense for reasons above and it should be re evaluated

@Legion350 @DemonGodMitchAubin @Armorchompy @Wokistan

What do you think?

 

[Whycantinamemyself]

Looking at it again, these panels, it looks like we’re looking at 2 separate things happening. As we can see in the first of the two panels, the explosion looks like it is primarily dust and small rock particles. And in the next panel we can see that a large group of rocks are beginning to rise upwards separate from the initial blast. It looks like what’s actually happening here is that there was an initial blast tetsuo made to crater the moon, but right after tore out extra rocks to form the ring.

This explanation seemingly solves all the questions and checks all the reasons for what we see happening. It has sound reasoning based on what we see, and there’s no anti feats saying he can’t do it. It’s a perfectly reasonable explanation as to what’s happening.

it explains the difference in the sizes of the crater, it explains why we only see a little bit of the debris rain down to earth, and it explains why the ring formed without anyone actual reason for it to.

 

[Whycantinamemyself]

Looking at it again, these panels, it looks like we’re looking at 2 separate things happening. As we can see in the first of the two panels, the explosion looks like it is primarily dust and small rock particles. And in the next panel we can see that a large group of rocks are beginning to rise upwards separate from the initial blast. It looks like what’s actually happening here is that there was an initial blast tetsuo made to crater the moon, but right after tore out extra rocks to form the ring.

This explanation seemingly solves all the questions and checks all the reasons for what we see happening. It has sound reasoning based on what we see, and there’s no anti feats saying he can’t do it. It’s a perfectly reasonable explanation as to what’s happening.

it explains the difference in the sizes of the crater, it explains why we only see a little bit of the debris rain down to earth, and it explains why the ring formed without anyone actual reason for it to.

Bump

 

[Whycantinamemyself]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

It doesn't seem like any of the calc group members that I summoned are interested in opposing the previous conclusion. As such, we should preferably close this thread.

 

[Whycantinamemyself]

It doesn't seem like any of the calc group members that I summoned are interested in opposing the previous conclusion. As such, we should preferably close this thread.

Have they looked at my most recent comment? It would require a separate calculation and we could just have them as two separate feats. I’ve also proposed new reasons and evidence that haven’t been proved wrong or refuted so it wouldn’t make sense to close it now.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I just don't consider changing which version of the calculation that is accepted seems like a sufficiently big deal to spend much time on, especially if our calc group is uninterested. If I remember correctly, it wouldn't even change the tier for Tetsuo.

 

[Whycantinamemyself]

Well, I just don't consider changing which version of the calculation that is accepted seems like a sufficiently big deal to spend much time on, especially if our calc group is uninterested. If I remember correctly, it wouldn't even change the tier for Tetsuo.

if we can agree that he created the ring and my math is safe then he would actually be around moon level for creating the ring.

 

[Antvasima]

Both of the calculation results in the linked blog post seem to be Multi-Continent level.

 

[Whycantinamemyself]

Both of the calculation results in the linked blog post seem to be Multi-Continent level.

i mean if what i said can be agreed upon then 2 new calculations must be made in order to quantify this feat. One calc must figure out the speed the debris traveled during this and use KE, or use the volume found from this calc and use pulverization because it looks like most of the debris is dust. The second one should measure how much debris it would take to make a ring this big and calculate the force it would take to do it.

 

[Whycantinamemyself]

i mean if what i said can be agreed upon then 2 new calculations must be made in order to quantify this feat. One calc must figure out the speed the debris traveled during this and use KE, or use the volume found from this calc and use pulverization because it looks like most of the debris is dust. The second one should measure how much debris it would take to make a ring this big and calculate the force it would take to do it.

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

i mean if what i said can be agreed upon then 2 new calculations must be made in order to quantify this feat. One calc must figure out the speed the debris traveled during this and use KE, or use the volume found from this calc and use pulverization because it looks like most of the debris is dust. The second one should measure how much debris it would take to make a ring this big and calculate the force it would take to do it.

@Damage3245 @Wokistan @Jasonsith

What do you think about this?

 

[Whycantinamemyself]

We can ask cyberblader or Hagane.

 

[Whycantinamemyself]

Well unless we can get anyone to actually evaluate my reasoning, this should probably be closed.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

I think I generally agree with @Whycantinamemyself

 

[Antvasima]

So is it fine if I close this thread soon?

 

[Whycantinamemyself]

So is it fine if I close this thread soon?

well I didn’t actually expect anyone else to comment on this thread at the time, but someone did. Now there’s one person who agrees with me and one person who doesn’t. I can try to ask one more person who has knowledge on the subject but I don’t know if they will respond.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I suppose that I can wait a bit then.

 

[Whycantinamemyself]

Okay. I suppose that I can wait a bit then.

Can you @ cyberblader90?

 

[Whycantinamemyself]

Can you @ cyberblader90?

Bump

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

@Cyberblader90

 

[Antvasima]

well I didn’t actually expect anyone else to comment on this thread at the time, but someone did. Now there’s one person who agrees with me and one person who doesn’t. I can try to ask one more person who has knowledge on the subject but I don’t know if they will respond.

Can you @ cyberblader90?

@Cyberblader90

 

[Cyberblader90]

ill be free to comment after my beach trip, so in like 5-6 hours

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. No problem. Thank you for helping out.

 

[Kachon123]

I agree with what Null said. The debris was not moving at escape velocity. The debris that fell down on Earth is not big enough compared to the rest of the ones that remained on Earth to say that they were moving at escape velocity.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

Should I close this thread then?

 

[Kachon123]

Thank you for helping out.

Should I close this thread then?

Yes please. The logic in the OP doesn't make much sense.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will do so. Thank you to everybody who helped out here.

 

[Antvasima]

Whycantinamemyself was very insistent about me reopening this thread.

https://vsbattles.com/members/antvasima.17/#profile-post-comment-55567

@Legion350 @Everything12 @Duedate8898 @UchihaSlayer96 @Confluctor @Maverick_Zero_X @Emirp sumitpo

Would any of you be willing to help evaluate this thread please, so we can finally end this discussion?

 

[Whycantinamemyself]

Looking at it again, these panels, it looks like we’re looking at 2 separate things happening. As we can see in the first of the two panels, the explosion looks like it is primarily dust and small rock particles. And in the next panel we can see that a large group of rocks are beginning to rise upwards separate from the initial blast. It looks like what’s actually happening here is that there was an initial blast tetsuo made to crater the moon, but right after tore out extra rocks to form the ring.

This explanation seemingly solves all the questions and checks all the reasons for what we see happening. It has sound reasoning based on what we see, and there’s no anti feats saying he can’t do it. It’s a perfectly reasonable explanation as to what’s happening.

it explains the difference in the sizes of the crater, it explains why we only see a little bit of the debris rain down to earth, and it explains why the ring formed without anyone actual reason for it to.

This is the new argument I made so this should be evaluated if it can be.

 

[Antvasima]

Looking at it again, these panels, it looks like we’re looking at 2 separate things happening. As we can see in the first of the two panels, the explosion looks like it is primarily dust and small rock particles. And in the next panel we can see that a large group of rocks are beginning to rise upwards separate from the initial blast. It looks like what’s actually happening here is that there was an initial blast tetsuo made to crater the moon, but right after tore out extra rocks to form the ring.

This explanation seemingly solves all the questions and checks all the reasons for what we see happening. It has sound reasoning based on what we see, and there’s no anti feats saying he can’t do it. It’s a perfectly reasonable explanation as to what’s happening.

it explains the difference in the sizes of the crater, it explains why we only see a little bit of the debris rain down to earth, and it explains why the ring formed without anyone actual reason for it to.

@Nullflowerblush @Cyberblader90 @Kachon123

Can you also help out a bit further here please?