AK-47 and AR15 clone profiles

[Jaften]

We currently have two sets of four gun profiles that are essentially clones.

ArmaLite AR-15, M16, M4 Carbine, Heckler & Koch HK416

AK-47, AKM, AK-15, CMMG Mk47 Mutant

We really don't need all of these profiles, because they don't offer any new information besides "this thing also exists." It logically follows that the AR-15 and the M16 have essentially identical profiles, because they're essentially identical.

I propose that we remove some of these, or at the very least condense them into singular profiles.

 

[KLOL506]

Compositing is a better idea, although the newer counterparts are vastly improved variants with completely overhauled appearances, AKA this could confuse a lot of people.

Also, the Mk47 is not a Kalashnikov Rifle, it's completely different.

 

[Jaften]

Compositing is a better idea, although the newer counterparts are vastly improved variants with completely overhauled appearances.
Also, the Mk47 is not a Kalashnikov Rifle, it's completely different.

They still have virtually identical stats. If we follow the logic you propose, this wiki will quickly have thousands of gun profiles with identical stats. I don't think anybody wants that, to be honest.

 

[KLOL506]

By that logic we'll have to remove the M249 machine gun and the FN F2000 profiles because they have the same stats as the M4 Carbine and whatnot (AKA having the same caliber).

Which, frankly speaking, is not going to happen. Because most modern assault rifles use the 5.56x45 caliber which yields the same sort of firepower for any assault rifle that makes use of it. Doesn't mean that we'll start removing profiles because other rifles use the same sort of caliber and firepower.

 

[KLOL506]

At best I'd suggest compositing the clone profiles with different keys for their muzzle velocity while keeping the AP same (If they use the same caliber, if not, use another key for it), minus the Mk. 47, which is a completely different platform.

 

[Jaften]

I'm okay with this for the most part, actually. In the end, the M249, F2000, G36 and M4 are basically interchangable weapons so far as this Wikia is concerned. They're all automatic rifles with ~1700 joules AP.

It's for this same reason that I haven't added profiles for other main battle tanks, like the T-90 or Merkava. Even though they are different from the M1 Abrams, they're essentially equivalent to it in all meaningful ways, which I why I put the following note at the end of its profile as well as the profiles of other vehicles and guns I've worked on:

"Similar vehicles of about the same type and period generally have performance equivalent to this one."

It's important, because it's true. Unless a gun or vehicle has some feature that differs significantly in some way as to be truly game-changing, it's basically just the former profile with a different skin.

I know that we have profiles of characters that are "basically different versions of other profiles" but that's what this Wikia is for—cataloguing fictional characters. I'm all for having profiles for real world guns and vehicles, but we can't include all of them or we'll never be done, and a few of the ones we have are pretty much just copies of other ones, so do we really need them? Having so many unnecessary "clones" kinda makes a mess of the sections.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Not

really

much a point to deleting them

they aren't harming anything

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

They are slightly different, so I don't think it's really a problem to have all of them. And we don't really like composite profiles; we got rid of the various composite animal profiles, why would we make a composite machine gun profile? At best there would be a machine gun profile and listing many different versions, but I still prefer to keep them separated.

 

[DMUA]

Eh, if they're so similar, I can see just merging the profiles for different models of the same sort of gun, just making them different keys.

 

[Jaften]

They are slightly different, so I don't think it's really a problem to have all of them. And we don't really like composite profiles; we got rid of the various composite animal profiles, why would we make a composite machine gun profile? At best there would be a machine gun profile and listing many different versions, but I still prefer to keep them separated.

I'm not suggesting making something like a "composite machine gun" profile. That's foolish.

I'm suggesting that guns that are basically just minor refinements of the same gun (like the AK47, AKM, and AK-15) do not necessarily need their own profiles.

 

[TheArsenal1212]

Personally I don't think there's a really right or wrong answer here, and that some people will prefer one method over the other. I like KLOL's reasoning but I also get @Darks. I think Composite profiles are fine but only in specific circumstances and are handled correctly and i think they'd work here so I'm siding with KLOL for now

 

[Jaften]

I agree with Arsenal, I think the AK-47, AKM, and AK-15 profiles can all be merged, since they're literally derivatives of the same gun. I think the same can be done with AK-74 derivatives and AR-15 derivatives.

I think this would help make the gun section a little less cluttered with redundancies, which makes me happy.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm fine with merging them as separate keys I suppose.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

If we stopped compositing organisms, we shouldn't do the same for guns.

 

[KLOL506]

Oh, I'll clarify this one more time.

The Mk. 47 IS NOT a Kalashnikov rifle. It's a completely different rifle platform made in the USA outside of Kalashnikov's intervention.

Also, the AK-74 doesn't have any other clones other than short-barreled variants, which are already included in that one page.

 

[Jaften]

Also, the AK-74 doesn't have any other clones other than short-barreled variants, which are already included in that one page.
AK-12

 

[KLOL506]

The AK-12 is based on a completely new platform, different from the AK-74. It was actually taken from the AK-400 prototypes which was made due to the AK-200 being cancelled after thorough testing throughout the Ratnik trials.

 

[Jaften]

Fine, fine.

(it's almost literally the same gun tho grumble grumble)

 

[Wokistan]

I would say that listing weapons all under the same platform, like the AR series of rifles that also is inclusive of all 5 of the M16s and the 2 M4s, seems fine. I don't think there only needs to be one gun per cartridge type though, like removing an M249 because it's in 5.56 despite the SAW platform being way different than that of s rifle.

 

[AguilaR101]

I agree with wokistan.

 

[Elizhaa]

I agree the profiles can be merged but the keys should separated as well