Aizen should be more powerful than Ichigo

[JohnCenaNation]

Among everyone of the Special War Powers, Aizen was stated to be the one with the greatest amount of Reiatsu. So going by Bleach Lore, shouldn't greater reiatsu = greater reiryoku = being more powerful? So by that logic, shouldn't he be second to Yhwach?

 

[The4Godlike]

Yes he is.

 

[AstralKing7]

ƒæǃæǃæÇinteresting interesting indeed

 

[Damage3245]

Can you link the page where it is stated that Aizen has the greatest amount of Reiatsu?

 

[JohnCenaNation]

Can you link the page where it is stated that Aizen has the greatest amount of Reiatsu?

 

[Damage3245]

That doesn't actually say that Aizen's Reiatsu is higher than Ichigo's, especially when Ichigo at the time the Special War Powers were decided upon was much weaker. He didn't even have his true Shikai back then.

Ichigo's latent ability might mean that by the final fight his Reiatsu was equal to, or superior, than Aizen's.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

That doesn't actually say that Aizen's Reiatsu is higher than Ichigo's, especially when Ichigo at the time the Special War Powers were decided upon was much weaker. He didn't even have his true Shikai back then.
Ichigo's latent ability might mean that by the final fight his Reiatsu was equal to, or superior, than Aizen's.

"Chosen for a very specific quality".

 

[Konaguna]

Ichigo's special ability is that he is a Mutt, who can't even utilize one of his many powers correctly, that's it

 

[Damage3245]

Yes? In other words, Aizen's Reiatsu may have been the best around at the beginning of the arc but that statement is not necessarily true by the end of it.

 

[Paul_Frank]

I doubt ichigos reiatsu increased during that arc that much he gained his true shikai and such but there is really no way to know as the only big person he fought was yhwach after being hit with the plot arrow

Even then aizens reiatsu was increasing while he was in prison there is no reason it would stop when he got out

 

[JohnCenaNation]

I doubt ichigos reiatsu increased during that arc that much he gained his true shikai and such but there is really no way to know as the only big person he fought was yhwach after being hit with the plot arrow
Even then aizens reiatsu was increasing while he was in prison there is no reason it would stop when he got out

The feel when Kubo simply decided to seal Aizen away, because he was afraid Aizen would have soloed Wandereich by himself due to how powerful Aizen has become just by not doing anything.

 

[Sekkonds.]

So?we all know that aizen is more powerful than ichigo

 

[HST_Master]

I doubt ichigos reiatsu increased during that arc that much he gained his true shikai and such but there is really no way to know as the only big person he fought was yhwach after being hit with the plot arrow

Even then aizens reiatsu was increasing while he was in prison there is no reason it would stop when he got out

Pre Royal Guard Ichigo got stomped by a Base Yhwach and got his Bankai cut in half by Jugram. By the end Yhwach is directly stating Ichigo's full strength is a threat to him enough to break his bankai.

 

[Naeblis495]

If you mean that Aizen have more raw power then that's plain wrong and all the proof we have point to the contrary : Yhwach saying that ichigo is a threat in bankai and ichigo being able to kill Yhwach twice . Aizen on the other hand never wounded Yhwach even with his strongest kido .

however , if you mean to implie that aizen would win a fight against ichigo then yes , he would, without PIS

 

[Paul_Frank]

If you mean that Aizen have more raw power then that's plain wrong and all the proof we have point to the contrary : Yhwach saying that ichigo is a threat in bankai and ichigo being able to kill Yhwach twice . Aizen on the other hand never wounded Yhwach even with his strongest kido .
however , if you mean to implie that aizen would win a fight against ichigo then yes , he would, without PIS

Bankai ichigo killed yhwach when he was off guard the first time and the second time is because he was hit with the plot arrow and literally powerless

Aizen wasn't trying to kill Yhwach he literally stated he was trying to stall until ichigo could arrive

 

[Naeblis495]

wich clearly point to Aizen not being able to kill Yhwach. He was buying time for ichigo because ichigo is stronger than him.

 

[Paul_Frank]

wich clearly point to Aizen not being able to kill Yhwach. He was buying time for ichigo because ichigo is stronger than him.

He was buying time for ichigo because he was the only person not under the effects of his KS

He specifically said however that none of them could have beat yhwach 1v1

 

[Naeblis495]

still doesn't change the fact that aizen never wounded Yhwach but ichigo did .

 

[Paul_Frank]

still doesn't change the fact that aizen never wounded Yhwach but ichigo did .

Neither time ichigo wounded Yhwach can really be attributed to his own strength though

The first time yhwach didn't even know he was there and was fighting aizen

the second was from the plot arrow which took away all of his powers

If ichigo was facing yhwach without aizen distracting him and then without the plot arrow hitting him ichigo wouldn't have hurt yhwach

 

[Naeblis495]

Yhwach was under kyoka , there absolutly no reason why aizen couldn't had taken him with his guard low as well .


the only other reason is the most obvious : ichigo hit harder than Aizen .

 

[Paul_Frank]

Yhwach was under kyoka , there absolutly no reason why aizen couldn't had taken him with his guard low as well .


the only other reason is the most obvious : ichigo hit harder than Aizen .

The thing is Yhwachs guard wasn't lowered he thought he was fighting ichigo for most of that time while looking at aizen

 

[Naeblis495]

Aizen could had make Yhwach fight the air . he didn't need to fight him under ichigo form. therefore , once again , the only logical explanation is that Aizen couldn't damage yhwach and relied on ichigo to do it .

 

[Paul_Frank]

Aizen could had make Yhwach fight the air . he didn't need to fight him under ichigo form. therefore , once again , the only logical explanation is that Aizen couldn't damage yhwach and relied on ichigo to do it .

Or or or right

Pis like that arc was filled with which is actually more likely then ichigo is so much stronger than Aizen that he is the only one who can hurt yhwach because if that's the case he would have won while he had the horn on

 

[Naeblis495]

listen man , i only point out what the manga show us . Yhwach said than ichigo at his strongest was a threat to him and instantly shut him down but said nothing about aizen .

If Aizen was stronger or relative to ichigo he could have done the job himself , even better than ichigo because aizen is immortal. but he just acted as a support to ichigo , something he would not do in characther if he was more powerfull than him .

i stated my points more than enough times , i'm done arguing

 

[Paul_Frank]

Actually yhwach never said ichigo was a threat

his bankai was a threat

As in whatever his bankai did was a threat to yhwach

 

[Naeblis495]

omg... , ichigo bankai is pure stat amp , as alway.

if it did anything else significant he would have used it .

 

[Paul_Frank]

omg... , ichigo bankai is pure stat amp , as alway.
if it did anything else significant he would have used it .

We don't know if it was a pure stat amp

He couldn't use it though the second it was pulled out yhwach saw what it would have done and broke it

Again which is more likely ichigos bankai actually doing something besides a stat amp and that's why yhwach was scared

Or that it's like a 700 times stat amp because it would have to be significantly stronger than the gran rey cero getsuga tensho and even if this is what it does why would yhwach be scared he can literally rewrite his death

 

[Naeblis495]

ho yeah his bankai have hax , that's why ichigo used brute strengh in the two chances he had to kill Yhwach .

No.

A bankai is a 10x multiplier , far than enough to put anything his shikai could do to shame , even the GRC

if grasping at straw is allowed , like you do , then my argument would be that yhwach didn't know that he could rewrite his own death until it actually happenned

 

[Paul_Frank]

ho yeah his bankai have hax , that's why ichigo used brute strengh in the two chances he had to kill Yhwach .
No.

A bankai is a 10x multiplier , far than enough to put anything his shikai could do to shame , even the GRC

if grasping at straw is allowed , like you do , then my argument would be that yhwach didn't know that he could rewrite his own death until it actually happenned

No ichigo wouldn't have used his bankai because it was destroyed instantly

Also I hope you know that his gran rey cero was with a mastered holowfication which on its own should have a comsiderable multiplier and again brute strengh literally can't kill Yhwach he just brings himself back

If yhwach was scared of brute force because he saw himself die he would also have seen oh wait I just bring myself back

And I'm not grasping at straws I'm just stating that ichigos bankai being purely a stat amp literally makes no sense yhwach wouldn't have been scared by ichigo just getting stronger as he could literally rewrite his death

 

[Naeblis495]

so we give characthers abilities they never displayed just because ?

if so , i claim that Yhwach is omnipotent , he just never displayed it .


see how that doesn't work ?

 

[Paul_Frank]

so we give characthers abilities they never displayed just because ?
if so , i claim that Yhwach is omnipotent , he just never displayed it .


see how that doesn't work ?

No ones giving him abilities his bankai its literally featless

I'm saying that it is infinitely more likely that his bankai did something other than stat amp as yhwach has no reason to be scared of ichigos bankai otherwise

 

[Naeblis495]

it has already been established that yhwach don't see everything , proven by the fact he got hit by the still silver arrow in the first place

therefore him not taking any chances as soon as a modicum of a threat appear isn't that far fetched and far more in line as giving ichigo's bankai something he never displayed even in life and death situation


also , you keep repeating that his bankai has been broken ,wich is false . what we saw was an illusion made by kyoka , we see that his bankai is just fine when he stabbed and bisect yhwach for the first time . it only got damaged after yhwach ressurection .


anyway , what you argue has never been showed and is just headcanon .

 

[Paul_Frank]

Using the plot arrow as an argument doesn't help as everything about that arrow was designed to make Yhwach lose

Yhwach even being hit by the arrow can be attributed to a few things first and foremost is the plot needed him to lose and there weren't enough chapters to make a good ending

Second is that for some ungodly reason yhwach saw the arrow with the almighty and then just tried to tank it instead of dodging

Third is that since the arrow seals his powers he couldn't see the future where he was hit because it would have already sealed his powers <----notice how the only explanation besides pis makes almost 0 sense

And again if ichigos bankai is just a stat amp like before then there is no threat there is no reason for yhwach to be scared because he could as shown resurrect himself


He at this point had no reason to fear pure physical strength as even if it was enough to kill him it didn't matter

And no yhwach instantly broke ichigos bankai after he was hit with the cero then it was fixed ichigo came in after yhwach had blown a whole in aizen and then getsuga tenshoed him from behind before he realized he was there

This is not proof of yhwach doesn't see everything either this is proof that KS can mess with the almighty as aizen stated

After cutting him in half ichigo and aizen talk and Yhwach revives breaks the bankai gets hit with the plot arrow and cut in half


You are literally saying that ichigos bankai is just a stat amp but it's capable of scaring post soul king yhwach enough to make him break it again please tell me how that makes any sense at all

 

[JohnCenaNation]

it has already been established that yhwach don't see everything , proven by the fact he got hit by the still silver arrow in the first place

therefore him not taking any chances as soon as a modicum of a threat appear isn't that far fetched and far more in line as giving ichigo's bankai something he never displayed even in life and death situation


also , you keep repeating that his bankai has been broken ,wich is false . what we saw was an illusion made by kyoka , we see that his bankai is just fine when he stabbed and bisect yhwach for the first time . it only got damaged after yhwach ressurection .


anyway , what you argue has never been showed and is just headcanon .

You do realize the entire point of the fight is that Yhwach never was serious, correct? When Bankai Version 3 Ichigo first fought against Yhwach, Yhwach had him under death bed while he was in his base state. When Yhwach fought Ichigo during their rematch, Yhwach casually destroyed Ichigo powers by simply using Almighty while admitting that the fight was boring. During their final fight, Yhwach could have killed Ichigo many times over hadn't he been a victim to Aizen's Shikai and Uryu's arrow. At the end of manga, I believe Aizen admitted that Yhwach wanted to die.

 

[HST_Master]

Aizen stated nothing of the sort. In fact Yhwach openly admitted Ichigo's Bankai was a legitimate threat enough to take him seriously and break his bankai with Almighty before he got the chance to use it. As soon as he did use it Ichigo one shot Yhwach. If it wasn't for the Almighty he would've died.

 

[Onracol]

Yhwach was off guard due to Aizen and Kyoka Suigetsu at the time and Ichigo got an easy point-blank shot. Aizen has consistently shown his Reiatsu to be extremely potent within the verse (disintegrating Shinigami that came close while he was sealed) while Ichigo can get close to his crew with no problem what so ever. I didn't read the whole debate, but by feats, Aizen is way above Ichigo especially if you guys consider Reitatsu = AP. Point is, other than statements that mean very little since Ichigo still got shit on, Aizen has shown to have the superior Reiatsu. It's kinda his thing lol.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Ichigo's True Bankai is a fusion of all of his different powers, which Zangetsu had anything that wasn't a stat amp or something purely physical? Regen is physical, energy attacks are AP, his previous Bankai were purely speed amps, Blut is AP/dura amp. Any argument based on his Bankai doing anything other than amp him in some way is completely baseless.

To the ones who said Ichigo couldn't harm Yhwach ..... um GRC?

Ichigo's crew don't get insta vaped because they aren't complete fodders. No one on Aizen's level or even relatively close to it ever got disintegrated so I don't even know what this argument is supposed to be.

 

[Onracol]

Kon wasn't disintegrated. You're telling me stuffed animal Kon is stronger than a Shinigami? GRC was cracked and Yhwach was unharmed. It's all speculation from Ichigo's end. He just doesn't have the Reiatsu showings that Aizen does.

 

[Schnee_One]

Even completely disregarding Reiatsu

Ichigo still logically has no way to put down Aizen and his regen meaning he gets outlasted and killed

This is just even further complication on the fact

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Quincy Ichigo absorbs with All My Powers gg