Aizen regen downgrade

[Theglassman12]

Well, I was planning on doing this eventually, but this had to be said.

To put it bluntly, the low godly regen for Aizen is very questionable to say the least. So going off from the reason why he has it to begin with, it's from the apparent feat that his entire body regened after Ichigo "erased" it entirely with the Mugetsu. But here's the thing. Nothing in the entirety of the mugetsu sequence was it ever shown that his body was completely destroyed. We even get a shot of him crashing to the ground after he was hit, and the obvious gaping wound through his entire body shows that it wasn't a complete body destruction. And the fact that we still he his body intact when he was hit by the mugetsu even further goes against the idea that the hogyoku is low godly in terms of regen.

Also as a side note, end of series Aizen shouldn't have the Hogyoku's regen for the sole reasons that the hogyoku no longer deems him worthy of being the master as stated by Urahara

As for the type of regen he should have, it should at the very least be mid considering he was able to take the mugetsu in the head without dying as well as the fact that the majority of his chest was blown off by Gin with his bankai before the Hogyoku let him evolve again.

 

[Dark649]

It seems he was unable to regenerate his lost arm, but could have renerated the hole in his body.

 

[AstralKing7]

Man tbh I always had a problem with this just didn't think I was the one fit to make the downgrade

 

[Kepekley23]

@Dark

I've said this before and will say it again, that was because Yhwach nulled his regen. He is obviously not below the threshold required to regen lost arms.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Or PIS, because he regenerated later. Anyway, there's no way Aizen lost his Regenerationn as he's still in Muken. If that's the case, Soul Society would have killed him.

 

[Dark649]

Regenerating that hole is the level same as regenerating arms, which is Low-Mid, the Hogyoku left him immortal.

 

[Kepekley23]

Aizen regenerated from having his torso obliterated. It seems obvious that what happened there was his regen getting nulled by Yhwach's Almighty.

 

[Theglassman12]

@BFF I mean, considering that he somehow got strong enough to reiatsu crush some scrub while in the chair makes him a bit hard to kill.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

I'm pretty busy since I'm on a vacation still; however, a CRT trying to downgrade Aizen had been discussed earlier and I preemptively made a comment trying to explain it if that CRT was ever made. I guess I can post it now, but if follow up comments are made I won't be able to reply or explain:

I should begin by linking the original thread in which Low-Godly Regen was accepted for Aizen by staff and knowledgeable members to provide full context.

How Does Aizen's Regenerationn Function?
Simple, Aizen's Regenerationn explicitly stems from his Reiatsu (Spiritual Pressure) still being produced through his heart.

If you permanently stop his heart then Aizen's Reiatsu would stop being produced, Reiatsu being a product of one's Reiryoku... their Reiryoku being their Spiritual Energy, the product of their soul.

How Does Aizen Have Low-Godly if You Only Need to Destroy His Heart?
That's the thing, destroying Aizen's heart does nothing going off of feats:

Erased via Ichigo's Mugetsu.

Hole punched through his heart by Yhwach.

What is Determining Low-Godly Regen for Aizen?
Aizen being hit by Mugetsu and regenerating afterwards.

How Does Mugetsu Give Aizen Low-Godly?
Mugetsu is a unique ability as it is the culmination of Ichigo's powers at this point in the series upon attaining Final Getsuga Tensho. As shown, it is the combination of Ichigo's Hollow and Tensa Zangetsu (Old Man Zangetsu). As Ichigo learns later in the series, the Hollow in him is actually his Shinigami Powers (the real Zangetsu) and Old Man Zangetsu is actually just Ichigo's Quincy Powers. Final Getsuga Tensho is Ichigo using both Quincy and Hollow/Shinigami Powers combined, Mugetsu in turn as well. Aizen was hit by Mugetsu, an ability infused with Shinigami/Hollow and Quincy powers.

This is extremely important given how Quincy Powers function. Quincies destroy souls, it's actually a severe issue that they are able to do this since we are repeatedly told that Quincies destroying souls upsets the balance of souls in the worlds.

Aizen was hit with this and enveloped in said attack.

Isn't Destruction of Soul and Regenerating Back Mid-Godly?
To quote Matthew Schroeder from the thread that gave Aizen Low-Godly:

Well, the souls in Bleach aren't exactly incorporeal protoplasm or whatnot. They are molecules and cells, and they age and need to eat (The Shinigami at least), and they react to cold exactly the same as our particles do.

So it ain't exactly fair to give Mid-Godly to something that is so demonstrably physical in practically every way.

However, if Mugetsu does fully erase, then yeah Low-Godly seems fair.

Which is all true. Souls (Konpaku) and Spiritual Bodies in Bleach do function like real bodies when in the Spiritual World (Soul Society) or in Hueco Mundo or against other Souls. The difference is the interaction of a Soul (Konpaku) / Spiritual Body with non-spiritual things in the World of the Living.

Thus, as Matthew put it, the destruction of Aizen's Soul (Konpaku) by another Spiritual Being (Ichigo with Mugetsu) is seen as full body destruction given how Spiritual Bodies function like real bodies agaisnt other Spiritual Bodies.

Preemptive Counter

Quincy Powers Don't Always Destroy Souls:
The only times it has not is when a target is not fully enveloped by a Quincy ability or if the target is too durable/strong for the attack to actually do damage (reminder that Shinigami have some great Soul Resistance). Both of these factors were not at play for Aizen against Ichigo.

Mugetsu enveloped Aizen's entire body, we are shown it affecting his entire body and Aizen was susceptible to it doing so.

Conclusion

Aizen has Low-Godly Regen via regenerating after an attack that destroyed his entire Spiritual Body (Konpaku) given the mechanics of said attack and visuals shown through said attack.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Actually the Hogyoku didn't reject Aizen heck the Novel implies what Kisuke did was quite dubious,I'll post it later.

Aizen is stated to be immortal because they can't stop the flow of his reishi,nothing in soul society is capable of stopping the flow.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Is there any mention of his soul leaving or his body being re-made?

 

[Kepekley23]

@Sigurd

Except Yhwach.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Imade the mugetsu never erased him to begin with. I addressed that in the OP.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

@Sigurd

Except Yhwach.

I suppose but Yhwach is pretty wierd..when he broke Ichigo's Bankai the past had to be manipulated in order for Orihime to restore it because his reishi was to strong to be rejected.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

@Imade the mugetsu never erased him to begin with. I addressed that in the OP.

Read IMades section called "Does Mugetsu give Aizen low godly."

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

@Imade the mugetsu never erased him to begin with. I addressed that in the OP.

I can actually reply to this given I can copy paste my comment, please refer to the section titled in bold letters:

How Does Mugetsu Give Aizen Low-Godly?
And then read the follow up section to that to clear confusions you may have.

 

[Kepekley23]

Your counter is a feat vs statement ordeal, and we all know which one takes precedence.

Quincy powers were said a couple times to be able to erase souls, sure, and were shown doing so to people before.

However, Aizen was clearly not erased by Mugetsu as the feats and scans will tell you.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Aizen was deleted by Mugetsu,he even had to regen from a separate stage of evolution.You can clearly see his body dissolve in the slash,unless someone thinks Mugetsu didn't actually completely envelope Aizen.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Sigurd look back at the scan again. Aizen's body was still intact.

 

[Kepekley23]

Except he was not erased by it, since he was shown with wounds and gaps in his body in later panels. If he had regenerated, he'd not have lasting holes.

If anything, Aizen's feat would be resisting Matter Manipulation, not regenerating from it.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

How is body that is getting pretty much deleted still intact to you?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Mugetsu isn't Matter Manipulation..?

 

[Kepekley23]

Yes it is, in a sense. It erases souls, which do not function the same way your average soul from the average verse would.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Lol what

 

[Kepekley23]

Speaking slooowly: Bleach Souls.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

This is the aftermath

 

[Theglassman12]

@Sigurd a giant money shot of a mugetsu which dwarfs other parts of the land doesn't help your case on Aizen's body being wiped away. Again, his body was not erased considering we not only see it still intact, but it crashing down with a giant wound through his body, implying that it just cut through his body rather than erase.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

ok

 

[KuuIchigo]

All this could be answered if you re-read the original thread.

 

[Dr.Fix]

I agree with the OP. The argument for God regen is based off of:

"Look, he's destroyed completely."

&

"Quincies erase souls"

As for Quincies they have to actually "kill" said soul They can't just erase whoever they want with hax.

As for the other thing. . . The panels only show Aizen getting cut in half by Mugetsu. What happens after that is a zooming out to show the size of the attack and the landscape. Aizen then reappears immediately afterwards in two halfs. The burden of proof for him being erased has not been set. Nor has the burden of proof showing him regenerate back. He just appears in two halfs once Kubo focuses back on him.

 

[SilentBob34]

Pretty sure he regenerated from being vaporized from the inside out by urahara's kido. Also can anyone answer where his wings went if he wasn't destroyed completely?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Actually im going to ask this since it has to do with this topic.

Is there any actual evidence that Quincies even erase souls in a literal sense or is it just them blasting souls away in a destructive sense? While it's obvious that Quincies destroy souls, Soul Destruction =/= Existence Erasure and I have never remotely come across any form of evidence that actually proves they erase them from existence with some kind of E.E. hax instead of just simply destroying them with their powerful spirit arrows.

Id like someone to give me evidence of this please before I start assuming otherwise.

 

[Dr.Fix]

^If a Bleach character is weakened eneough they may revert to a weaker state.

Ie Grimmjow and Ichigo.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Actually im going to ask this since it has to do with this topic.
Is there any actual evidence that Quincies even erase souls in a literal sense or is it just them blasting souls away in a destructive sense? While it's obvious that Quincies destroy souls, Soul Destruction =/= Existence Erasure and I have never remotely come across any form of evidence that actually proves they erase them from existence with some kind of E.E. hax instead of just simply destroying them with their powerful spirit arrows.

Id like someone to give me evidence of this please before I start assuming otherwise.

Legit what are you talking about? they don't have existence erasure

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Thats not what ive been told. Unless I just misinterpreted it the wrong way, ive been told that the Quincies arrows erase souls from existence instead of just simply destroying them. E.E. toward souls.

If that isn't true, then why are we suddenly assuming Mugetsu is an erasure type attack?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Quincy destroy souls,and because they destroy souls they don't go in to the cycle of reincarnation therefore throwing off the balance.It's not existence erasure it's crystal clear soul destruction.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Exactly like I thought then.

So if Quincies don't erase souls, what justifies Mugetsu even being an erasing type attack in the 1st place?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

It's not,that is why Aizen didn't have Mid Godly via the thread an explaination linked above.Mugetsu isn't just a bigger Getsuga.It's all of his Shinigami powers which is his quincy power and they destroy souls.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

I think the confusion lies in the fact that people aren't connecting the dots and misunderstand when Aizen's two halves fall down. Forgive the formatting, I'm on mobile.

https://i.imgur.com/qJ7j5UN.png In this scan we see Aizen has been cut in half by Mugetsu and is crumbling away. Why this is important is due to two reasons:


1) Mugetsu has Quincy composition in it granting it the Soul (Konpaku) Destroying property.


2) It shows that Aizen wasn't just cut in half and fell as two parts.


To explain the first point, Quincy powers destroy the Soul (Konpaku) and we can see them visually crumbling apart. https://i.imgur.com/FctGXW1.png As we see, the Quincy destroying effect has a similar tearing apart effect as with Aizen when he was hit by Mugetsu.

To explain the second point, Aizen was more than cut in half. https://i.imgur.com/5rr06rG.png https://i.imgur.com/lUyW6Rq.png These two scans are used to try to prove that Aizen was only cut in half and fell as two parts after being cut in half. We can easily disprove that notion with just the first scan of Aizen crumbling apart: https://i.imgur.com/mxU68j5.png. The scan after that further shows Aizen's "disapperance": https://i.imgur.com/mxU68j5.png. However, despite our understanding of how Quincy powers work and that Aizen was tearing apart and was more than "two halves that fell down", it's still not seen as enough. Thankfully we see in a wider view that Aizen is gone: https://i.imgur.com/m0crexP.png.

There's also how Aizen's Regenerationn works, it stems from his Reiatsu which comes from his actual soul, not the Konpaku. Destroying the Reiatsu (the actual soul) will kill him. Konpaku destruction won't do it as Reiatsu does not stem from the Konpaku.

 

[Theglassman12]

He's not crumbling away. We can still he his body intact, and it nearly bisected him vertically. Unless you're telling me that his regen partially works at a time, where it just regens up to where he got cut in half, let himself get thrown into the ground, and then decide to regen the rest of the wound, which last time I checked, isn't how the hogyoku's regen worked.