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Again ? ... No (Fate Changes and Downgrades)

Nexus_still_slams

Nexus_still_slams

149
119
Since ID debunks are nearly finished i'm back on a new verse : Fate series :giggle:

BB :
Regeneration (High-Godly ; Divine Spirits are able to regenerate from having their soul destroyed any time they want, as for them it's like only destroying a single cell in their body)
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Uh ? Just a reminder, to qualify for a High Godly you have to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, soul, and at least one other fundamental aspect of a character's existence. Here, the justification talks only about soul, it's not even a Mid-godly, it's just ... nothing except a soul regeneration.

Conceptual Manipulation (Can expunge the concepts of the world and replace them with one of her own choosing with C.C.C. She also controls the Mooncell, which has a different concept of time, and something akin to the concept of reincarnation, and the Imaginary Number Space, where concepts are more true than numbers, and the concept of time and space do not exist. Created the BB Special Dog Space, which lacks the concept of entrances, exits, or limits. Placed herself in the concept of infinite time).
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Is she can control / affect the concepts of the world, then it should include at least Type 2 concepts.

Servant Physiology :
Corrosion Inducement : Servants can survive within the abyss, which was able to decay and rot objects.
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The only thing we see in the "resistance panel" is someone in the abyss, okay, but even if this person is a servant, that does not prove that any servant can survive in the abyss, couldn't this be just a specificity of this character ?


Petrification: Servants are capable of resisting and canceling Medusa's Mystic Eyes of Petrification using their magical energy.
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The scan say this :

"I cannot petrify her as she has more magical energy"
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In that case, it is not a resistance, it's just that saber has more energy than her. But is not a real ability of resistance, and surely not a physiology, if a servant have less energy that Medusa, then this servant would not resist to the petrification.


Conclusion :
BB : Removal of High-Godly regeneration, adding "Type 2" to her conceptual manipulation
Servant Physiology : Corrosion inducement resistance removal, petrification resistance removal

Edit after discussions :

BB : change justification for High-Godly regeneration, adding "Type 1" to her conceptual manipulation (need scans to prove that all of Fate concepts are type 1)
Servant Physiology : adding "limited" to petrification resistance and Corrosion inducement resistance

Agree :
Disagree :
Neutral :
 
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Nexus_still_slams said:
Uh ? Just a reminder, to qualify for a High Godly you have to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, soul, and at least one other fundamental aspect of a character's existence. Here, the justification talks only about soul, it's not even a Mid-godly, it's just ... nothing except a soul regeneration.
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Not only do souls contain the concepts and information of a being, but also have their mind and memories within[3], which, alongside the body, protect the soul and stop it from being reached.[4]
Click to expand...
-Servant Physiology page

But I think it should be added to the regeneration explanation tbh
 
Nah, High-Godly is legit under the system. Their soul is essentially the very definition, concept, information etc of their being. Getting their soul destroyed is more than just normal soul destruction
 
VoidGoji said:
Nah, High-Godly is legit under the system. Their soul is essentially the very definition, concept, information etc of their being. Getting their soul destroyed is more than just normal soul destruction
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isn’t that scan from servant universe though? they’re generally more ridiculous in general
 
Since the bb thing is already addressed,I will just address the rest.
Nexus_still_slams said:
Servant Physiology :

The only thing we see in the "resistance panel" is someone in the abyss, okay, but even if this person is a servant, that does not prove that any servant can survive in the abyss, couldn't this be just a specificity of this character ?
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No, because in the event we see ritsuka,a average mage, survive the underworld and that's enough to upscale it to servant resistance.

Also it's the Sumerian underworld,the same place where ritsuka,mash and the rest of the Babylonian gang walk around in the Babylonian singularity.
Nexus_still_slams said:
In that case, it is not a resistance, it's just that saber has more energy than her. But is not a real ability of resistance, and surely not a physiology, if a servant have less energy that Medusa, then this servant would not resist to the petrification.
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While the reason you state is correct for the scan given.there are other feats for this.shirou and rin resist the effects of her eye during day 9 of heavens feel
Tohsaka's voice is almost a scream.
…I can't tell what kind of face she's making.
My eyes are also captivated by Rider's mystic eyes, and I can't look away.
My blood is thickening.
The flow is solidified, and my senses are ceased
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Despite the fact that anyone in her vision should be instantly petrified,especially someone who meets her eyes.

Not to mention,modern magi do posses petrification magecraft,compared to rider however it might as well be nothing,so anyone who can resist rider eyes can most likely no sell modern magecraft petrification.

Also,petrifaction is just transmutation to stone,I don't really see the point why it's a seperate ability.
 
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Violetcyanide said:
No, because in the event we see ritsuka,a average mage, survive the underworld and that's enough to upscale it to servant resistance.
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Sorry but i don't know anything about Fate, Do you have scans to justify that Servants upscale their resistance from other servants (I think it should be added to the servants physiology page).
 
Magical Energy is UES in Nasuverse, magician use Magi energy to perform haxes, at the same time having magical energy allow Magi to resist haxes that come from magical energy, so having more magical energy allow one to resist haxes from lower magical energy
 
Vietthai96 said:
Magical Energy is UES in Nasuverse, magician use Magi energy to perform haxes, at the same time having magical energy allow Magi to resist haxes that come from magical energy, so having more magical energy allow one to resist haxes from lower magical energy
Click to expand...
So, just by having more energy they resist to others haxes ?
 
Vietthai96 said:
one possesses higher magical energy will resist the magecraft effects from one with lower magical energy, literally everyone in verse using magecraft to perform haxes
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i'm pretty sure things like cannot be listed as resistances because they does not have the ability to resist a hax but just a specificity of the magical system allow them to resist (thing that would not work in crossverse for exemple), something like that was use on Instant Death and was remove for the same reason i explain here for exemple. So I don't think you can use that to give an upscale to someone.
 
Nexus_still_slams said:
Since ID debunks are nearly finished i'm back on a new verse : Fate series :giggle:
Click to expand...
Curious order. Personally, If I were you I would blame wheel for choosing this verse from the amount of outdated things, stuff that were explained only on forums with a little to no scan on actual profiles, awful scaling chain and etc.

I would recomend to wait till tier 0 root crt comes to it's conclusion because of how dead supporters of this verse are. But if you wanna practice ur mental gymnastic that much
I recomend go to fate profiles with nep cuz they still have old standarts type.

Also this verse get's new downgrade attempts quite often so you might have a concurency on this one.
 
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Nexus_still_slams said:
i'm pretty sure things like cannot be listed as resistances because they does not have the ability to resist a hax but just a specificity of the magical system allow them to resist (thing that would not work in crossverse for exemple), something like that was use on Instant Death and was remove for the same reason i explain here for exemple. So I don't think you can use that to give an upscale to someone.
Click to expand...
It’s done on the wiki. Bleach and One Piece pages, for example, have Limited Power Nullification against far weaker characters or resistances to hax based on their energy systems giving them protection against such abilities. The same applies to the Nasuverse.

And based on that, I don’t think the Instant Death resistance should have been removed. Maybe it could have been clarified as a limited resistance.

To start with, hax doesn’t work the same universally across different works of fiction. It’s a term popularized by debaters to classify OCP abilities, but its treatment differs greatly across different verses. It can be argued both ways so I think we should just classify verses on a case by case basis.

If the verse mechanics allows the characters to resist abilities with more magical energy, why not? It’s tough to say otherwise and apply the rules of another verse to the Nasuverse. Worst case, it could be clarified that the resistance applies when they have more magical power than the opponent.

If not, there might have to be a separate thread to decide issues like this.
 
Burning_Full_Fingers said:
It’s done on the wiki. Bleach and One Piece pages, for example, have Limited Power Nullification against far weaker characters or resistances to hax based on their energy systems giving them protection against such abilities. The same applies to the Nasuverse.

And based on that, I don’t think the Instant Death resistance should have been removed. Maybe it could have been clarified as a limited resistance.
Click to expand...
I don't think it can work like this. At least, not always.

Would you assume that, therefore, in a cultivation novel setting, every cultivator having a superior realm to another one "resist all the haxes of the verses" since they would resist the haxes of a lower-level cultivator? I mean, that lower-level cultivator may only have a fire spell, but if they had another spell or heck, even concept manip, they would've been able to do nothing since the gap is just that big.
 
SweetDao said:
I don't think it can work like this. At least, not always.

Would you assume that, therefore, in a cultivation novel setting, every cultivator having a superior realm to another one "resist all the haxes of the verses" since they would resist the haxes of a lower-level cultivator? I mean, that lower-level cultivator may only have a fire spell, but if they had another spell or heck, even concept manip, they would've been able to do nothing since the gap is just that big.
Click to expand...
If it’s explicitly shown or stated in verse A that higher magical energy can allow characters to resist special abilities, then it could probably be classified as a resistance, even if limited in nature.

Like with the Bleach example where the wiki accepts it, or with the One Piece Haki profile. Nasuverse is no different and I think DB is the most popular example.

I’m not saying it should be randomly applied to verses where such a thing has never been shown or stated. Not sure about cultivation novels, haven’t read any of those.
 
i blame this shit happen due to how dead the verse supporter is, and i can't handling it alone with how large the verse is, ngl, Nasuverse contents is one of the largest among fictional verses, many continuities, spin-offs, adaptations. I even planned to make an UES page for magic in the verse, but due to how dead the supporters is, and how large the verse is, i gave up, most others just care about upgrade the verse tier, rather than improve the existing pages
 
Burning_Full_Fingers said:
If it’s explicitly shown or stated in verse A that higher magical energy can allow characters to resist special abilities, then it could probably be classified as a resistance, even if limited in nature.

Like with the Bleach example where the wiki accepts it, or with the One Piece Haki profile. Nasuverse is no different and I think DB is the most popular example.

I’m not saying it should be randomly applied to verses where such a thing has never been shown or stated. Not sure about cultivation novels, haven’t read any of those.
Click to expand...
Okay, I think I misunderstood your initial argument, my bad. Then yeah, we agree on the topic then.
 
Vietthai96 said:
i blame this shit happen due to how dead the verse supporter is, and i can't handling it alone with how large the verse is, ngl, Nasuverse contents is one of the largest among fictional verses, many continuities, spin-offs, adaptations. I even planned to make an UES page for magic in the verse, but due to how dead the supporters is, and how large the verse is, i gave up, most others just care about upgrade the verse tier, rather than improve the existing pages
Click to expand...
Lol, I have literally never seen anywhere that has a general consensus on Nasuverse ratings. Hell, supporters everywhere disagree on the verse mechanisms, canon structure and timelines stuff.

And yeah, it’s because there’s so many authors and spinoffs. I’ve read some of them but not deep enough to consider myself knowledgeable. If you could work together with others in the discussion thread, it could turn out fine.
 
Burning_Full_Fingers said:
If it’s explicitly shown or stated in verse A that higher magical energy can allow characters to resist special abilities, then it could probably be classified as a resistance, even if limited in nature.

Like with the Bleach example where the wiki accepts it, or with the One Piece Haki profile. Nasuverse is no different and I think DB is the most popular example.

I’m not saying it should be randomly applied to verses where such a thing has never been shown or stated. Not sure about cultivation novels, haven’t read any of those.
Click to expand...
The resistance is really weak unless one character massively powercliffs the other, though in TM. like, the resistance is just last one more second or something
 
Burning_Full_Fingers said:
If you could work together with others in the discussion thread, it could turn out fine.
Click to expand...
I mean if we, instead of making 3 hundreds forums on "why things works like that," putted those arguments in profiles and also sometimes updated them to new standarts then greater half of problems would be solved before revisions like that become a thing.

But here we are at stage of almost nuking verse out of cursed profiles.
 
Wankbreaker said:
The resistance is really weak unless one character massively powercliffs the other, though in TM. like, the resistance is just last one more second or something
Click to expand...
Still a resistance.

Could be listed as a Limited Resistance, worst case. The wiki currently accepts such resistances, so it should be fine.
 
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