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Ada’s Mind Manipulation Discussion
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Guacamolefletcher
Username Only- 2,012
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Disappointed for the drop of the reio pfp
Godernet
He/Him- 2,826
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Pretty sure he just means a weakened Adult Sasuke's genjutsu resistance in general not specifically EMS war arc Sasuke’s resistance
Another thing worth bringing up is that the Sasuke who was affected by omnipotence only has his EMS now and his rinnegan did contribute to some of his genjutsu resistance. So him scaling to The Last Sasuke’s genjutsu resistance(who still has the rinnegan) or even infinite Tsukuyomi might be questionable even if we did accept that Eidas ability should scale to Sasuke’s layered resistance.
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Nope because Genjutsu doesnt operate a specific way, you havent addressed my original point
This isnt an argument that strengthens your position, your explaining that the difference is in scope. and if the scope is what makes it impossible for sasuke to resist then Eida's mind manipulation scaling higher is self evident.
This varies on the potency and the type of genjutsu, some genjutusu can be broken through physical pain, some cannot be broken out of regardless of how much control you have. this doesnt make your position stronger.
nope because Genjutsu targets your senses first, Sasuke can and has negated and saw through Genjutsu that has nothing to do with the inside of his body. also once again you can genjutsu yourself and be under the genjutsu while you have control of your own chakra lol.
99% of Genjutsu does not work this way. there is a very specific genjutsu that actively pours chakra into someone. most genjutsu have their own internal rules and their own mechanics, and the broader ones come in two types. one by hand seal and Ocular. Ocular works via effecting your sight directly. which is why you can get caught in a genjutsu even if you see the dojutsu in a reflection. the reflection isnt sending chakra into you lol. and seals is as it described, using hand seals.
This argument means nothing. If you have a server room with dozens of computers that share files from the main computer, and the main computer gets a virus, obviously your going to be able to effect entire room with the virus but if one specific computer has a powerful anti virus its going to prevent itself from being corrupted regardless if the main computer was the source. and thats big main issue here is that your using buzzwords to argue a hypothetical without explaining your qualifiers.
"it effects the fundamental roots of that chakra and not the personalized chakra networks"
Qualify what that means in a meaningful way
"would have no impact on the move because how chakra is linked towards itself"
Why would it not work?, im being overly chartable here because i get the type of argument you want to make but the issue is that your not making any argument at all. your not providing evidence for your qualifier your making an assertion and asking me to take your belief at face value.
"Aida is impacting the fundamental roots toward that chakra structure,not any personalized chakra networks"
once again your not giving meaningful qualifiers here, explain why your creating this dichotomy, your describing a means and slapping qualifiers to it for no reason. this is more egregious when chakra roots, source of chakra, personalized chakra networks ect" is all headcanon and coming from a single line your interpreting.
Its even more baffling when the actual content doesnt say this at all.
Not a single thing here implies or says Eida is changing the very roots or nature of chakra. in fact it makes it specifically clear to personalize individuals and "their" chakra
meaning of Their "belonging to or associated with the people or things previously mentioned or easily identified." its a possessive term not a holistic one.
All this sentence is saying, Peoples consciousnesses are connected via THEIR chakra. meaning their minds and chakra are connected. therefore its not impossible for a god to alter this. thats it. nothing more and nothing less.
On top of that we know for a fact thats its not effecting some abstract version of chakra to effect everyone, its effecting everyone individually. hence why the ability is massive AOE one that travels as a beam of light effecting those that pass it.
There is no "chakra system as a whole" and once again this is a qualifier on the level of saying Man cannot resist banana without resisting the fluctuation in the banana trees. it doesn't mean anything until you can qualify it.
But is, the only difference is that it has a massive AOE range to effect more than one person..almost like... some other super specific genjutsu as well?
Nope because once again thats not how Genjutsu works. read my first post.
Anyway Disagree with the counter arguments for the following reasons
* Many of the points brought up here were mentioned in my original post.
* Creating an Arbitrary line between Genjutsu and Eida's ability isnt sufficient enough given that Genjutsu itself does not have a single holistic mechanic
* There are Genjutsu that replicate the counter examples the opposition use, the only difference being things like potency/range. this is not enough evidence given that those variables are accounted for within genjutsu itself
* Arguments from the opposition requires us to make broad generalizations and assumptions about the means and the power system that are not accounted for in the original text.
* Opposition arguments have inaccurate information regarding how genjutsu works
* my argument is supported by the fact that i can source individual mechanics of the genjutsu across every instance of its appearance in the series with databooks scans to accompany them, that contradict the assertion of genjutsu being a homogenized thing.
* My argument is supported by Occam's razor given that it makes the least assumptions. my argument does not rely on semantics , it only concludes that Eida's manipulation is above sasuke's resistance which is self evident as the feat in question revolves around the fact that Sasuke was effected. in the same way someone being able to put their hand in luke warm water and be fine can simultaneous burn themselves by putting that hand on a hot stove. occams razor would dictate to you the discrepancy comes from the potency of the heat not that one happens to be in the kitchen and the other in the bathroom.
̶Y̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶w̶a̶n̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶E̶i̶d̶a̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶w̶i̶n̶g̶
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https://youtube.com/shorts/BL8Oe9oh7mY?feature=shareNope because Genjutsu doesnt operate a specific way, you havent addressed my original point
This isnt an argument that strengthens your position, your explaining that the difference is in scope. and if the scope is what makes it impossible for sasuke to resist then Eida's mind manipulation scaling higher is self evident.
This varies on the potency and the type of genjutsu, some genjutusu can be broken through physical pain, some cannot be broken out of regardless of how much control you have. this doesnt make your position stronger.
nope because Genjutsu targets your senses first, Sasuke can and has negated and saw through Genjutsu that has nothing to do with the inside of his body. also once again you can genjutsu yourself and be under the genjutsu while you have control of your own chakra lol.
99% of Genjutsu does not work this way. there is a very specific genjutsu that actively pours chakra into someone. most genjutsu have their own internal rules and their own mechanics, and the broader ones come in two types. one by hand seal and Ocular. Ocular works via effecting your sight directly. which is why you can get caught in a genjutsu even if you see the dojutsu in a reflection. the reflection isnt sending chakra into you lol. and seals is as it described, using hand seals.
This argument means nothing. If you have a server room with dozens of computers that share files from the main computer, and the main computer gets a virus, obviously your going to be able to effect entire room with the virus but if one specific computer has a powerful anti virus its going to prevent itself from being corrupted regardless if the main computer was the source. and thats big main issue here is that your using buzzwords to argue a hypothetical without explaining your qualifiers.
"it effects the fundamental roots of that chakra and not the personalized chakra networks"
Qualify what that means in a meaningful way
"would have no impact on the move because how chakra is linked towards itself"
Why would it not work?, im being overly chartable here because i get the type of argument you want to make but the issue is that your not making any argument at all. your not providing evidence for your qualifier your making an assertion and asking me to take your belief at face value.
"Aida is impacting the fundamental roots toward that chakra structure,not any personalized chakra networks"
once again your not giving meaningful qualifiers here, explain why your creating this dichotomy, your describing a means and slapping qualifiers to it for no reason. this is more egregious when chakra roots, source of chakra, personalized chakra networks ect" is all headcanon and coming from a single line your interpreting.
Its even more baffling when the actual content doesnt say this at all.
Not a single thing here implies or says Eida is changing the very roots or nature of chakra. in fact it makes it specifically clear to personalize individuals and "their" chakra
meaning of Their "belonging to or associated with the people or things previously mentioned or easily identified." its a possessive term not a holistic one.
All this sentence is saying, Peoples consciousnesses are connected via THEIR chakra. meaning their minds and chakra are connected. therefore its not impossible for a god to alter this. thats it. nothing more and nothing less.
On top of that we know for a fact thats its not effecting some abstract version of chakra to effect everyone, its effecting everyone individually. hence why the ability is massive AOE one that travels as a beam of light effecting those that pass it.
There is no "chakra system as a whole" and once again this is a qualifier on the level of saying Man cannot resist banana without resisting the fluctuation in the banana trees. it doesn't mean anything until you can qualify it.
But is, the only difference is that it has a massive AOE range to effect more than one person..almost like... some other super specific genjutsu as well?
Nope because once again thats not how Genjutsu works. read my first post.
Anyway Disagree with the counter arguments for the following reasons
* Many of the points brought up here were mentioned in my original post.
* Creating an Arbitrary line between Genjutsu and Eida's ability isnt sufficient enough given that Genjutsu itself does not have a single holistic mechanic
* There are Genjutsu that replicate the counter examples the opposition use, the only difference being things like potency/range. this is not enough evidence given that those variables are accounted for within genjutsu itself
* Arguments from the opposition requires us to make broad generalizations and assumptions about the means and the power system that are not accounted for in the original text.
* Opposition arguments have inaccurate information regarding how genjutsu works
* my argument is supported by the fact that i can source individual mechanics of the genjutsu across every instance of its appearance in the series with databooks scans to accompany them, that contradict the assertion of genjutsu being a homogenized thing.
* My argument is supported by Occam's razor given that it makes the least assumptions. my argument does not rely on semantics , it only concludes that Eida's manipulation is above sasuke's resistance which is self evident as the feat in question revolves around the fact that Sasuke was effected. in the same way someone being able to put their hand in luke warm water and be fine can simultaneous burn themselves by putting that hand on a hot stove. occams razor would dictate to you the discrepancy comes from the potency of the heat not that one happens to be in the kitchen and the other in the bathroom.
̶Y̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶w̶a̶n̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶E̶i̶d̶a̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶w̶i̶n̶g̶
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So you saying if Sasuke just disrupted his chakra he would get out of it? Nice.
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Peak instigation.
Godernet
He/Him- 2,826
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“You’re ducking and dodging” - Deceived probably
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It's perfect.
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Nope because Genjutsu doesnt operate a specific way, you havent addressed my original point
This isnt an argument that strengthens your position, your explaining that the difference is in scope. and if the scope is what makes it impossible for sasuke to resist then Eida's mind manipulation scaling higher is self evident.
This varies on the potency and the type of genjutsu, some genjutusu can be broken through physical pain, some cannot be broken out of regardless of how much control you have. this doesnt make your position stronger.
nope because Genjutsu targets your senses first, Sasuke can and has negated and saw through Genjutsu that has nothing to do with the inside of his body. also once again you can genjutsu yourself and be under the genjutsu while you have control of your own chakra lol.
99% of Genjutsu does not work this way. there is a very specific genjutsu that actively pours chakra into someone. most genjutsu have their own internal rules and their own mechanics, and the broader ones come in two types. one by hand seal and Ocular. Ocular works via effecting your sight directly. which is why you can get caught in a genjutsu even if you see the dojutsu in a reflection. the reflection isnt sending chakra into you lol. and seals is as it described, using hand seals.
This argument means nothing. If you have a server room with dozens of computers that share files from the main computer, and the main computer gets a virus, obviously your going to be able to effect entire room with the virus but if one specific computer has a powerful anti virus its going to prevent itself from being corrupted regardless if the main computer was the source. and thats big main issue here is that your using buzzwords to argue a hypothetical without explaining your qualifiers.
"it effects the fundamental roots of that chakra and not the personalized chakra networks"
Qualify what that means in a meaningful way
"would have no impact on the move because how chakra is linked towards itself"
Why would it not work?, im being overly chartable here because i get the type of argument you want to make but the issue is that your not making any argument at all. your not providing evidence for your qualifier your making an assertion and asking me to take your belief at face value.
"Aida is impacting the fundamental roots toward that chakra structure,not any personalized chakra networks"
once again your not giving meaningful qualifiers here, explain why your creating this dichotomy, your describing a means and slapping qualifiers to it for no reason. this is more egregious when chakra roots, source of chakra, personalized chakra networks ect" is all headcanon and coming from a single line your interpreting.
Its even more baffling when the actual content doesnt say this at all.
Not a single thing here implies or says Eida is changing the very roots or nature of chakra. in fact it makes it specifically clear to personalize individuals and "their" chakra
meaning of Their "belonging to or associated with the people or things previously mentioned or easily identified." its a possessive term not a holistic one.
All this sentence is saying, Peoples consciousnesses are connected via THEIR chakra. meaning their minds and chakra are connected. therefore its not impossible for a god to alter this. thats it. nothing more and nothing less.
On top of that we know for a fact thats its not effecting some abstract version of chakra to effect everyone, its effecting everyone individually. hence why the ability is massive AOE one that travels as a beam of light effecting those that pass it.
There is no "chakra system as a whole" and once again this is a qualifier on the level of saying Man cannot resist banana without resisting the fluctuation in the banana trees. it doesn't mean anything until you can qualify it.
But is, the only difference is that it has a massive AOE range to effect more than one person..almost like... some other super specific genjutsu as well?
Nope because once again thats not how Genjutsu works. read my first post.
Anyway Disagree with the counter arguments for the following reasons
* Many of the points brought up here were mentioned in my original post.
* Creating an Arbitrary line between Genjutsu and Eida's ability isnt sufficient enough given that Genjutsu itself does not have a single holistic mechanic
* There are Genjutsu that replicate the counter examples the opposition use, the only difference being things like potency/range. this is not enough evidence given that those variables are accounted for within genjutsu itself
* Arguments from the opposition requires us to make broad generalizations and assumptions about the means and the power system that are not accounted for in the original text.
* Opposition arguments have inaccurate information regarding how genjutsu works
* my argument is supported by the fact that i can source individual mechanics of the genjutsu across every instance of its appearance in the series with databooks scans to accompany them, that contradict the assertion of genjutsu being a homogenized thing.
* My argument is supported by Occam's razor given that it makes the least assumptions. my argument does not rely on semantics , it only concludes that Eida's manipulation is above sasuke's resistance which is self evident as the feat in question revolves around the fact that Sasuke was effected. in the same way someone being able to put their hand in luke warm water and be fine can simultaneous burn themselves by putting that hand on a hot stove. occams razor would dictate to you the discrepancy comes from the potency of the heat not that one happens to be in the kitchen and the other in the bathroom.
̶Y̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶w̶a̶n̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶E̶i̶d̶a̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶w̶i̶n̶g̶
Ok…well to hopefully avoid a back and forth if bible sized texts…I’m just gonna try and explain my position in a more cohesive manner while keeping what you said in mind.
So the first thing I want to address…are the scans. I don’t know where you got your scan, but the official viz translation says as follows:
“Every persons’ consciousness is, by nature, linked through chakra.”
The word “their” isn’t present in the scan. In fact, the phrasing of the sentence using the term “by nature” indicates that “chakra” itself being linked to all consciousness, is some sort of metaphysical, fundamental aspect to the Naruto world.
This leads me into my next point, which is that Aida’s manipulation is through such a different mechanism than genjutsu that Sasuke shouldn’t be able to counteract the power with his resistances alone.
A good example is this: from what I understand here on the wiki, if you can resist existence erasure via reality warping, that doesn’t mean you’re capable of resisting existence erasure via plot manipulation, no matter how many layers of resistance you originally had.
even though the end result of the power is the same (existence erasure/mind manipulation), the mechanism for the delivery of the power can be the deciding factor in whether or not a characters resistances can withstand the ability.
Bringing this back down to Edia: the mechanism for her ability is just straight up reality warping. She’s bringing her subconscious desires into reality. That is exactly how her ability is described. That being the case, what part of “reality” is she altering to alter everyone’s memories?
The answer is chakra. She’s altering the reality that is relationship between chakra and human consciousness as all human consciousness is linked through chakra as the scan earlier said. She impacts the “chakra” which all human consciousness is linked through. The metaphysical aspect to nature.
Other various kinds of genjutsu that do things like simply alter senses or impact the person’s internal chakra network are fundamentally different than Aida warping the “reality” of “chakra” so that each person’s memories are changed.
Again, Sasuke simply hasn’t even shown any known type of mechanism that can stave off this kind of ability. In order to resist Edia’s ability, Sasuke would need to resist the change on the wider aspect of “chakra” as a whole.
Sasuke still used chakra and is bound by the laws of nature in his own world. The “laws of nature” include chakra and its inherent linkage to all human consciousness, so Sasuke can’t resist Eida’s power because loving Eida or changing memories become part of the “reality” that Sasuke is bound by. He’d need to resist the change to reality that “chakra” as a whole underwent by in order to resist his memories from being altered, which is something Sasuke has not demonstrated to be able to do. Hence why I think Edia’s power shouldn’t scale in layers, as none of Sasuke’s resistances have any impact on the mechanism through which Eida’s power works by.
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The Scan i used came from OP scans, they have had a better track record translating the original japanese more accurately, and egregious example would be Boruto's final line in the viz media one. that being said i dont want to spend too much time arguing semantics, so ill use your scan for convenience sake of not making this post longer than it already is.
By nature is a term used to refer to inherent features, characteristic, or qualities of something and in linguistics its often used to create a commonality between two or more things. in the attempt to avoid confusion let me explain like this
everybody's brains are by nature connected to blood. this sentence doesn't mean that everybody's brains are literally being connected by an abstract pool of the same blood. it just means there is a universal quality between the two that's shared by everyone who has these two things.
The sentence simply suggests that there is a natural connection between the consciousness of every individual through the concept of chakra, not everybody is literally connecting to the same abstract chakra pool.
We know this because
However i feel like you have the cart before the horse.
so lets back up first.
this is the fact of the moment
"people's consciousness and chakra are linked and can be altered by a god"
that's quite literally it.
from that single statement you make the massive leap of
* Chakra is being changed on a fundamental level universally (this would be conceptual manipulation btw) Citation is needed
* Chakra roots, and individual chakra is not the same Citation is needed both for this ditchomy and the existence of the root of chakra
* the existence of homogenized collective metaphysical chakra that only exist within this overly super specific hypothesis Citation needed
You cannot argue about genjutsu mechanics vs Eida's mechanics when you haven't provided any evidence for how Eida's mechanics work outside of making a ton of assumptions based off a descriptive line.
Reality warping > Fire > Burn
Reality Warping > Mind Manipulation > Mind control
2. There is no impact of chakra, there is no statement of how chakra is being used to change peoples memories. just that that the two are interconnected and the assumption that chakra is being used in some way.
Its pretty disheartening hearing points I brought up just not get acknowledged or addressed but i digress.
no i dont agree and dont think there's sufficient information to believe the two are drastically different enough to circumvent all of the resistances nor do i think there's enough evidence that chakra is being fundamentally changed to this degree.
no it doesn't????
By nature is a term used to refer to inherent features, characteristic, or qualities of something and in linguistics its often used to create a commonality between two or more things. in the attempt to avoid confusion let me explain like this
everybody's brains are by nature connected to blood. this sentence doesn't mean that everybody's brains are literally being connected by an abstract pool of the same blood. it just means there is a universal quality between the two that's shared by everyone who has these two things.
The sentence simply suggests that there is a natural connection between the consciousness of every individual through the concept of chakra, not everybody is literally connecting to the same abstract chakra pool.
We know this because
- Chakra is a finite energy that exists across the universe in pockets of quantity, that can be nurtured and grown.
- The entire theme and a large part of naruto's worldbuilding is connecting one another through chakra or Ninshu , this is an active decision not a passive one. and arguing there's this abstract existence breaks the world, this is egregious given that the argument is built on a single line of wonky interpretation.
- There is no evidence of the existence of an abstract existence of Chakra that encompass the collective conscience.
Once again there isnt a specific mechanism for Genjutsu.
this is incorrect, you absolute can resist EE from one another, the reason why its done case by case is because of how encompassing reality warping is as an ability and how esoteric plot manipulation can be. an example would be a character with reality warping may only be able warp things within a given setting while plot manipulation can change things outside of the setting within a meta textual level, given that it may require resistances outside of just EE like conceptual resistance. but even then im being very charitable here, given that there actually isn't a consensus and we still get divisive threads and arguments how plot manipulation and reality are essentially the same thing with the sole exception that one is aware they exist with in a fiction.
this is only true when specific resistances require specific mechanics. this is also not true on the wiki holistically, there's a reason why Existence erase doesnt have multiple types like immortality and causation do or to a larger extend reality warping like your previous statement suggest. thats because EE has a very definitive meaning and standard to meet.
However i feel like you have the cart before the horse.
so lets back up first.
this is the fact of the moment
"people's consciousness and chakra are linked and can be altered by a god"
that's quite literally it.
from that single statement you make the massive leap of
* Chakra is being changed on a fundamental level universally (this would be conceptual manipulation btw) Citation is needed
* Chakra roots, and individual chakra is not the same Citation is needed both for this ditchomy and the existence of the root of chakra
* the existence of homogenized collective metaphysical chakra that only exist within this overly super specific hypothesis Citation needed
You cannot argue about genjutsu mechanics vs Eida's mechanics when you haven't provided any evidence for how Eida's mechanics work outside of making a ton of assumptions based off a descriptive line.
Issues with your argument- Extraordinary claims of fundamental changes in the very worldbuilding of naruto and its power system requires extraordinary evidence which there is none.
- overtly charitable interpretation of everyone really being connected by the same pool, does not require someone to fundamentally change the nature of chakra nor does it change the mechanics in a meaningful way (check the server analogy).
- a power that can seemingly changed defined properties through its root is contradicted by the fact that the power requires and AOE light that has to pass every Individual person
- false assumption about causation, that memory manipulation can only happen if the chakra is fundamentally changed, this is solely assumed because chakra and peoples minds are connected. but this is false causality because chakra/minds being connected has nothing to do with requiring chakra to be fundamentally altered.
this is incorrect. Reality warping isnt the mechanic, reality warping is the power that brings forth the mechanic. this is why even her own charm ability has its own internal rules (like distance,eye contact ect)
Reality warping > Fire > Burn
Reality Warping > Mind Manipulation > Mind control
The statement says that because chakra and the mind are connected its possible to alter peoples mind. this isnt a new mechanic. this makes your point to distinguish the two even worse.
1. which doesnt require you to fundamentally change the inherent properties of chakra, which is what you need to argue for this discrepancy to work, which you cant because theres no evidence of it.
2. There is no impact of chakra, there is no statement of how chakra is being used to change peoples memories. just that that the two are interconnected and the assumption that chakra is being used in some way.
There is genjutsu that doesnt send out chakra and doesnt control any chakra within, the genjutsu requires no chakra of any kind externally, it effects the mind through the senses directly.
Its pretty disheartening hearing points I brought up just not get acknowledged or addressed but i digress.
no i dont agree and dont think there's sufficient information to believe the two are drastically different enough to circumvent all of the resistances nor do i think there's enough evidence that chakra is being fundamentally changed to this degree.
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u mean sasuke shinden? Sasuke only destroyed the meteor n dipped in the last
and sasuke didnt resisted the infinite tsukoyumi tho. its stated the light cant penetrated his susanoo. we dont know if he w/o susanoo can resist IT or not.
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I thought Koto was the strongest?
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ouh u mean The Last databook
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in translation its stated he mastered the strongest genjutsu...
u can translate if u want
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BTW i just remembered , unless sasuke had his sharingan active
Eida's Dojutsu>>>>Resistance would only apply to Sasuke's base resistance so YEAH lol
bye bye.
Eida's Dojutsu>>>>Resistance would only apply to Sasuke's base resistance so YEAH lol
bye bye.
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Man got carried hard.
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man has 1 feat during the chuninn exams
so its above one layer lol
so its above one layer lol
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prob not because its one off kinda deal. the damage has already been done. i mean unless we see something later in the series that suggests that.
Godernet
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Fair, was just speculating. Either way even a EMS weakened Sasuke wouldn’t scale to The Last Sasuke’s full 7 layers of resistance.
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@Maitreya
@Shadowbokunohero
The Momoshiki's statement "Every person's consciousness is by nature linked via chakra" is kind of ambiguous.One could explain it that
1. Chakra naturally links people's consciousness. This makes it a spontaneous passive reaction.
2. People's consciousness is naturally to be linked via chakra. This gives a possibility of an active source.
Putting both into perspective, I'll favor the number 2 because it has instances within the series. There has not been any natural concept of chakra auto-linking every consciousness in the Narutoverse. The consciousness has always been actively manipulated to be linked together. Instances are some genjutsu, Yamanaka jutsu, Hagoromo via Ninshu, and Naruto in the war arc.
From the statement, Momoshiki did not specify the source of the chakra. If people's consciousnesses are indeed linked, then it is most likely linked via the chakra of the one releasing Omnipotence, which is Eida in this case.
There is no evidence that non-Naruto characters would be immune to the effects of Omnipotence.
"So it's not impossible for a god to meddle with it, if they so choose" - Momoshiki.
The "it" there is referring to "People's consciousness, not chakra". The Otsutsuki gods are meddling with people's consciousness via chakra linkage.
Now as for Sasuke's resistance, I agree that Omnipotence is different from genjutsu. However, that's only in comparison to the state of permanence. It is basically similar in functionality. And we know there is reality-warping genjutsu like Izanagi.
I agree that Omnipotence Mind Manipulation and Empathic Manipulation are scaled higher than Sasuke's Mind resistance from the simple fact that Sasuke cannot cancel the effect on his mind using his own chakra.
So I agree for the most part with @Shadowbokunohero
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Bump
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It seems like it, but it would still be nice to finish this thread and have an actual accepted level rather than us possibly going back and forth on the issue again in the future.
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Bump
SirAlex09
He/Him- 1,170
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This makes sense to me
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- 1,371
I always thought since ninjustu is just a mere attempt to replicate shinjutsu then automatically all shinjutsu should scale above their respective ninjustu. So like eida mind manipulation > all knows ninjustu mind manipulation
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- 547
10 layer Mind Manip
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