Acheron's Acausality and Stuff (NEED STAFF VOTES PLEASE)

[Nighting4l33yes]

Though I admit erasing the past (if that's actually what's happening) isn't necessarily the same as "changing" the past

That's what I said as well the first time it was brought up.

Again, it's also not an established rule within the setting.

We already had a past rewind and time travel sequence to change the past and there was no indication that we ended up in a different branch or reality.

 

[Mbpoops]

I don't get why you think this is a rule in the verse. We have ONE instance of someone attempting it and creating a branch instead. It doesn't mean it has to work like that everytime btw.

Because this IS a rule applied to the verse, thats why we even have 2-A to begin with. theres multiple instances proving that MWI exists in the verse and i mean a LOT of evidence for this as well.

1.

2.

3. 4. 5. and 6.

and lastly 7.

so yes this is applied thoughout the verse, even in HSR.

As I said, Fuli has also been agreed to have Type 1. So there's precedent.

Fuli has this for very specific reasons, which is why i call them a special case.

the Fuli we see ingame is Fuli in the future because Fuli doesnt exist until the universe is destroyed. Fuli hasnt been born yet and it projects it's pure children of Anasrava into the past for one of them to become Fuli in the future causing a paradox where he is constantly birthing himself. this is on THEIR profile.

 

[Mbpoops]

pretty sure this would technically give the verse type 1 if all (assuming) past paradoxes are always shifted to another timeline.
Though I admit erasing the past (if that's actually what's happening) isn't necessarily the same as "changing" the past (same as diff between soul manip and soul destruction), thus not normally creating branches (unless that still happens in-verse with Acheron's erasure still causing timelines to shift paradoxes). So Acheron's potential type 1 would be able to still resist some cases of Aca1 negation.

Funny enough the history erasure is in contention right now

not only do they have historical records of Izumo's history but acheron has a past as proven in my last thread

Like if someone can make it so that past changes don't get shifted to other timelines through some special mechanic and negate that case of type 1, they would still not be able to effect Acheron through history manip

theres not enough proof for this unfortunately

This is entirely an IF though, in case type 1 for Acheron via the erasure thingy gets accepted.

 

[Planck69]

When I asked for a summary, it was under the implicit assumption that I (and any other staff) wouldn't have to read another page of discourse, c'mon guys.

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

Funny enough the history erasure is in contention right now

not only do they have historical records of Izumo's history but acheron has a past as proven in my last thread

theres not enough proof for this unfortunately

It's not in contention. It's a bunch of half-truths and actual arguments being covered up.

Because this IS a rule applied to the verse, thats why we even have 2-A to begin with. theres multiple instances proving that MWI exists in the verse and i mean a LOT of evidence for this as well.

1.

2.

3. 4. 5. and 6.

and lastly 7.

so yes this is applied thoughout the verse, even in HSR.

Fuli has this for very specific reasons, which is why i call them a special case.

the Fuli we see ingame is Fuli in the future because Fuli doesnt exist until the universe is destroyed. Fuli hasnt been born yet and it projects it's pure children of Anasrava into the past for one of them to become Fuli in the future causing a paradox where he is constantly birthing himself. this is on THEIR profile.

Again, none of this refutes the point that the past can be erased. Unless you want us to give everyone in the verse this hax

This means they cannot be affected by changes to the past

And as I said, we literally time travel and change the future to change Firefly's finale and we are still in the same branch.

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

When I asked for a summary, it was under the implicit assumption that I (and any other staff) wouldn't have to read another page of discourse, c'mon guys.

Just ignore everything said and read the tldrs. Sorry.

 

[Mbpoops]

When I asked for a summary, it was under the implicit assumption that I (and any other staff) wouldn't have to read another page of discourse, c'mon guys.

yea thats my fault ill reply with my summary and leave it there

So basically summarizing my arguments.

Spoiler: Type 4 Acausality

Acausality type 4 is irregular or how its more commonly applied "unconventional" causality is when you do something (cause) and something else happens that wasnt supposed to happen (effect)


for example:


I peel an orange (cause)


the orange falls (effect)


its unconvventional because thats not what normally happens.


normal causality example:


i peel an orange (cause)


orange is peeled (effect)


None of the scans on the OP have supported this type of causality it only supports type 1 acausality, which is impossible to achieve in a conventional way for the verse due to MWI.

Spoiler: Elio's Script

Elio's script:


As clarified in my previous thread, Acheron not appearing in Firefly's could be for a number of reasons why she isnt there hell theres even implications and showings that acheron appears in scripts.


For starters, Elio never gives the full script. simple as that the OP has not provided enough evidence that elio gave her a full script.


secondly, as i found out later in this thread Acheron does show up in scripts. the entirety of 3.8 takes place in a random script the dahlia found. guess who the script writer is and guess who appeared in that script multiple times.


Thirdly, as brought up by @TheGreatJedi13 in the last thread Acheron is actually in Firefly's script. this is a bit inconsistant as in 2.2 firefly says she doesnt show up in the script but we can easily fix this.


3.8 is a retcon of events in penacony so things are 100% subject to change in the story. Firefly actually says Acheron looks familiar upon seeing her and then later says that her mission was to prevent Acheron from drawing her blade near the trailblazer. This information confirms that Acheron is within Elio's scripts. Firefly recognizes her as she saw her in the script before because her mission is to prevent Acheron from drawing her blade near the trailblazer.


The only part firefly was surprised about was her status as an emanator. this part can simply be Elio not sharing this information as we know he never gives the full script.


less important script stuff:

this is more of a minor part but i'd like to address it


Theres more evidence of her not having a full script than her having one


This isnt consistant. One instance of kafka having a specific script doesnt mean all scripts are this detailed.


...? if Firefly had all the information here then why was acheron being an emanator of nihility even a surprise? This doesnt go against the narrative at all she literally just didnt have all the information

Spoiler: IX shadow summoning

IX Shadows summoning for self annihilators:

So as ive talked about throughout the thread, the scans shown have not proven that self annihilators can freely summon IX shadows. Lets go through these scans one by one.



This scan doesnt say that at all? How can we infer what they mean by "Beholding a shadow of nihility" if the game itself doesnt give any details on what they mean by "beholding a shadow of the Nihility"?


Here's the definition of Beholding because all this implies is that they look at a shadow of IX

Definition of BEHOLD

to perceive through sight or apprehension : see; to gaze upon : observe; —used in the imperative especially to call attention… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

As we talked about before, this is just a comparison of their existence. this doesnt imply they summon them at all.


this scan actually goes hand in hand with this scan as they both suggest that the self annihilator's existence is akin to a shadow of IX.


What that means we dont really know because the verse doesnt go in depth on it yet.


There is no scan that says she manifested it.


This is just blatantly wrong.


Aventurine was literally transported here by acheron


Acheron herself speaks of the horizon has if they went to another location


here it is again


So clearly this is a seperate "domain" from wherever Acheron and the target were prior

the wiki even describes it as a seperate space



Yes and no. Lets go more in depth on this part.


So, the shadow in the Horizon of existence wasnt created by acheron you'd need actual proof she created it because even the wiki seems to make it clear it existed prior to Acheron


And shadows of IX dont really need to be activated since they're black holes, black holes dont really get activated.


This is true however this has nothing to do with a shadows of IX, its just nihility powernull


Eh? I mean yea i guess most of her emanator power comes after she draws her blade the problem is that the game describes space itself as a manifestation of IX so you're basically arguing she creates the horizon of existence


Whaaaaa??? The first half is true, she can control who goes there, the second half no no no. first of all you havent proven she can even summon a shadow of IX the BFR comes from drawing her blade


Not every shadow of IX exists at the horizon of existence so this part is kinda pointless.


sigh... scan?


why does this link to the gravity manip page? IX is just purple goop at least from what we've seen in the simulated universe



Because shadows of IX are usually black holes


This isnt a black hole... this is Zephyro's white hole. The exact opposite of a black hole.


Now heres the main issue ive been repeating this whole thread, not all black holes are shadows of IX. When a black hole is shown you will need explicit proof whether it is or isnt a shadow of IX. Baiheng used a "dark sun" to kill Shuhu, would we say she just had a shadow of IX in her pocket?



So we actually only ever see one self annihilator create anything similar to a black hole and its zephyro... making a white hole.


So 1. you'd need proof this is a shadow of IX turned into a white hole


And 2. you still need explicit proof when a black hole is or isnt a shadow of IX because not all black holes are shadows of IX.

If you want more proof not all black holes are shadows of IX

I probably would have wrote something about the Izumo stuff but it was all addressed in @Zanesucksatlife 's Crt so go read that if you want

Darkness Manip im fine with. its not like she really uses it for anything special but light absorbsion from it seems fine

Spoiler: Conclusion

Conclusion:


i Highly disagree with


Acheron regains Acausality but Type 4 instead.


not enough evidence to suggest the type. all evidence provided is just causality manipulation or normal Existence erasure which she already has.


Being immune to Elio's Precognition = Precognition Resistance.


was debunked in the last thread and this message


Able to summon Shadows of IX = Summoning


same as the first reasoning.

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

yea thats my fault ill reply with my summary and leave it there

Spoiler: Izumo and Acausality

The core argument is not that Acheron merely survived the destruction of her homeworld. The argument is that Izumo underwent a fundamentally abnormal collapse under Nihility that severed its historical continuity, causal trace, informational existence, and place within the universe's remembered history, yet Acheron continued to exist despite originating entirely from that lost continuity.

Izumo was not an isolated or unknown civilization. It existed for at least two thousand years, was indexed within astral charts, participated in the wider interstellar framework of the setting (it being indexed in charts should imply that along with the fact that it was a brilliant, dazzling city), and should have left behind countless external records, institutional memories, communications, cultural references, and historical traces. Under normal circumstances, the sudden destruction of such a world would not result in uncertainty regarding whether it ever existed. Yet the narrative repeatedly emphasizes confusion, mythologization, fragmented records, and doubt regarding Izumo's very existence.

The Relics mentioned by those that disagree are meta-texts that help the player understand the lore. Relics are are made through the fragmentum that works on entirely different plane of plane of existence. It's not unlikely that information passes through an entire other network and is recorded there. It also doesn't mean that this phenomenon that we still cannot understand needs to be erased or affected for history EE to work. Especially since it likely works on a whole other dimension. The fragmentum is not an entity or energy. It's used as an informational, reconstruction framework and information or history erasure does not demand the destruction of every secondary derivative or backup. This whole use of it is a secondary effect. It's not a TRUE reconstructive framework like Remembrance. It's just being exploited to work like that. It's some kind of strange space-time warping effect.

Here, it is very specifically seen that the entire history of Izumo is being erased. It's moving backwards from the moment the planet and the Shadow are struck.

The setting explicitly asks whether Izumo ever existed at all, whether its history ever occurred, and whether it became stranded upon the shore of reverse causation. This is not the language used for an ordinary dead world. It is presented as a cosmological anomaly.

This distinction becomes even more apparent when compared to ordinary planetary destruction. The setting establishes that when a normal planet is destroyed, investigators confirm its destruction, categorize it as a deadworld, and only then remove it from the astral charts. Izumo is treated differently. Its disappearance is not presented as a routine administrative update but as a mystery that cannot be properly reconstructed despite the existence of systems specifically designed to preserve memory and history.

The existence of surviving scrolls does not refute this conclusion. Information erasure, historical erasure, or causal severance do not require every physical artifact, remnant, or fragment to be universally annihilated. It's entirely possible that there was a SINGLE fragment that survived. A torn piece of paper. It's likely that it's even fabricated by History Fictionologists since we are aware that they have managed to conceal the entire galaxy. The relevant question is whether the historical continuity remains intact, not whether isolated residues survive.

The surviving scrolls therefore function as disconnected remnants rather than proof that Izumo's history remains normally preserved. Researchers cannot reconstruct a coherent historical framework from them. Many do not even know whether the civilization described within them was real. Some regard it as a fairytale. The fragments remain, but the continuity that once contextualized them has been severed.

This interpretation is reinforced by the role of Remembrance. In HSR, Remembrance is not equivalent to ordinary historical documentation. It is a cosmic mechanism tied to memory preservation on a universal scale. Destroyed worlds, timelines, and universes ordinarily leave behind traces, memories, or residual structures that can still be accessed or reconstructed. Izumo is repeatedly portrayed as lacking even those normal remnants. Its disappearance is therefore treated as abnormal even by the standards of a setting where timelines and universes routinely perish.

The destruction of Izumo is also explicitly associated with Nihility and the Shadow of IX. Nihility is repeatedly portrayed as the negation of meaning, continuity, and existence itself. The Shadow of IX does not merely destroy planets physically; it consumes significance, history, and reality. During Acheron's final strike, the visual narrative depicts Izumo's history moving backwards toward its beginning while being consumed by the black sun. Simultaneously, her blade Naught is explicitly associated with severing cause and effect. The symbolism and narrative framing consistently point toward the destruction of continuity itself rather than ordinary planetary devastation.

This is where the acausality argument begins.

A causal chain is the sequence connecting causes to their effects across time. Acheron was born on Izumo, raised on Izumo, fought on Izumo, and derived her entire existence from Izumo's history. If that history was severed, erased, and rendered absent from the universe's normal historical framework, then the continuity supporting her existence should logically have been destroyed alongside it.

Yet Acheron remains.

She persists despite the collapse of the historical and causal structure from which she originated. This is important because it was HER blade combined with Nihility that ended the world entirely. And the issue is not merely that her world was destroyed, but that the continuity linking her existence to her past was consumed by Nihility. She survives the destruction of the very framework that should sustain her.

Spoiler: Scripts

This interpretation is reinforced by Elio's scripts.

Elio's foresight operates through branching futures, deterministic progression, and the observation of possible outcomes. Yet Acheron repeatedly appears as an anomaly within that system. Firefly explicitly questions whether Acheron was ever mentioned in the script. This point is revisited later rather than being left as a one-time inconsistency. Dahlia likewise acts without any indication that Acheron was accounted for. The omission is notable because Acheron is one of the most dangerous entities present and a direct threat to the Trailblazer if exposed to Nihility prematurely.

The usual counterargument is that the Stellaron Hunters do not receive complete scripts. While this is true in some situations, it does not explain why one of the most significant actors in the entire scenario would repeatedly remain unaccounted for. Firefly's own statements demonstrate that her scripts often contain highly specific details and outcomes. The narrative repeatedly presents Acheron as an irregularity within predictive systems rather than merely an omitted detail.

This pattern becomes more meaningful when compared to other acausal entities. Terminus exists from the future and moves backward through time. Fuli's nature transcends ordinary temporal progression through memory and remembrance. Both are associated with abnormal relationships to causality and prediction. Acheron's inability to be properly mapped within deterministic foresight aligns more closely with those entities than with ordinary characters.

The same principle applies to Device IX and later future projections. Acheron repeatedly states her intention to find Device IX, yet future scenarios centered around Device IX fail to account for her presence. While this is not definitive proof by itself, it contributes to a larger pattern in which her future remains impossible to cleanly resolve within systems designed to predict it.

Spoiler: Shadows of IX

Finally, the argument regarding Shadows of IX is misunderstood.

The claim is not that every black hole in existence is a Shadow of IX. The claim is that the setting repeatedly identifies Shadows of IX through black-hole imagery and terminology. IX is called the Black Sun, Dark Sun, Pitch-Black Great Sun, and similar titles. Scholars associate regions of extreme space-time curvature with Shadows of IX meaning they are essentially black holes. Self-Annihilators are stated to cast the Shadow of the Aeon throughout the cosmos. Izumo's black sun is identified as both a black hole and a Shadow of IX (We know this because by entering Acheron became a Self-Annihilator). The narrative consistently links these phenomena together (here too we see the black hole being linked to Nihility again).

Thus, when any Self-Annihilator manifests a black hole, the argument is that they manifest a known expression of Nihility repeatedly associated with black-hole-like phenomena throughout the setting. We have Zephyro casting a white hole that bends space, time and entropy. It has almost the exact same properties as a black hole except because he is against IX, he refined it to be different to mock him with light. Zephyro, being a Self-Annihilator is essentially casting a Shadow of IX since that is a power of Nihility.

Spoiler: Conclusion

In conclusion, Acheron is consistently portrayed as an anomaly to ordinary causal continuity. Izumo's destruction was not simply planetary destruction but the collapse of a civilization's historical continuity, causal trace, and place within cosmic remembrance. The surviving fragments do not preserve that continuity. Instead they merely persist as disconnected remnants. Acheron herself survives despite originating entirely from that lost history. Combined with her connection to Nihility, her severance of cause and effect through Naught, the repeated inability of predictive systems to properly account for her,the evidence supports the interpretation that Acheron operates under an abnormal causal framework consistent with Type 4 Acausality.

Also gonna edit this part in because I focused more on the black hole = shadow rather than the summoning

Spoiler: summoning =/= BFR

For starters, Shadows of IX that are manifestations of IX, as mentioned before too, can happen anywhere in the world and any Self-Annihilator can summon them for a large-scale catastrophical event. Many Self-Annihilators can summon them in quite a few ways. For example this Self-Annihilator had his own memories sealed inside a Bubble which after acquiring, a Shadow burst forth.

The Horizon of Existence is different. Here, it is explained that the it is the Border of Nihility and it requires someone to be affected by Nihility. Additionally, here, there's yet again a distinction on observers or beings/things afflicted by Nihility's power (Of course, it is an actual location though for the time being there's no more information regarding it).

Acheron, through her power of Nihility and being a Self-Annihilator, can directly manifest the Shadow in a space. This manifestation does not require displacement of targets into a separate domain or state within the Horizon of Existence, as the effect itself is an expression of Nihility's presence applied locally. The BFR is not a necessary prerequisite for the Shadow of IX’s activation, since the phenomenon can be invoked directly as a manifestation of a Self-Annihilator's/IX's power. Of course, because she passively carries Nihility's effect, which becomes active and affects things after drawing her Blade, she can affect things around her with it and BFR them without needing to summon a Shadow. She can selectively control who gets BFR-ed as she did with Aventurine and the TB despite multiple people being around them. Even during her in-game abilities, it's not necessary for her to summon a Shadow to BFR. And because every other time a Shadow has appeared, there's no mention of the Horizon, it is safe to say that those two don't need to go hand in hand.

 

[Planck69]

Izumo stuff is just Acausality Type 1, but with the rest I can tentatively see Type 4 Acausality. The script stuff on its own is just Resistance to Precognition to some degree, but if it indeed is due to her surviving Izumo's destruction then it could likely just be a consequence of her behaving abnormally outside her normal causality.

Just an important note, since I see this being misinterpreted, but Aca Type 4 doesn't mean anything special inherently. It just means not operating under normal causality. Even being from beyond space and time is this, and just like that, it grants no special status of its own whatsoever.

 

[Mbpoops]

Izumo stuff is just Acausality Type 1, but with the rest I can tentatively see Type 4 Acausality. The script stuff on its own is just Resistance to Precognition to some degree, but if it indeed is due to her surviving Izumo's destruction then it could likely just be a consequence of her behaving abnormally outside her normal causality.

didnt you literally just agree that it wasnt history erasure? how can it be type 1 if it isnt even history erasure??

if you look at the scans in my response you can clearly see that she appears in scripts

secondly, as i found out later in this thread Acheron does show up in scripts. the entirety of 3.8 takes place in a random script the dahlia found. guess who the script writer is and guess who appeared in that script multiple times.

shes literally in the script

Just an important note, since I see this being misinterpreted, but Aca Type 4 doesn't mean anything special inherently. It just means not operating under normal causality. Even being from beyond space and time is this, and just like that, it grants no special status of its own whatsoever.

but she does follow normal causality? what scans has been shown that proves she doesnt follow normal causality?

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

didnt you literally just agree that it wasnt history erasure? how can it be type 1 if it isnt even history erasure??

The thread had half-truths and had no counter-arguments. I literally presented a better case here whereas you guys are constantly withholding crucial info and mods unfamiliar with the verse can't discern.

shes literally in the script

She was not. We are told this was through TB's memories. The very video you link says it happened in combination with the script being used as a stimulant.

 

[Mbpoops]

The thread had half-truths and had no counter-arguments. I literally presented a better case here whereas you guys are constantly withholding crucial info and mods unfamiliar with the verse can't discern.

"half truths" and its literally from the game but whatever you say buddy

She was not. We are told this was through TB's memories.

we are literally told the exact opposite

Izumo stuff is just Acausality Type 1, but with the rest I can tentatively see Type 4 Acausality. The script stuff on its own is just Resistance to Precognition to some degree, but if it indeed is due to her surviving Izumo's destruction then it could likely just be a consequence of her behaving abnormally outside her normal causality.

Just an important note, since I see this being misinterpreted, but Aca Type 4 doesn't mean anything special inherently. It just means not operating under normal causality. Even being from beyond space and time is this, and just like that, it grants no special status of its own whatsoever.

whats your opinion on the other 4 proposals?

 

[Planck69]

didnt you literally just agree that it wasnt history erasure? how can it be type 1 if it isnt even history erasure??

if you look at the scans in my response you can clearly see that she appears in scripts

I did see that, but like, even just not behaving normally can count towards it, which is what I interpreted the other scans of her not properly being read by the script to be. So even if within the script, then it would be fine. That said, I did agree with the history erasure removal, but even destruction of a normal sort on a timeline scale would be fine for that (though looking through, that doesn't seem to be the case here either?)

"half truths" and its literally from the game but whatever you say buddy

we are literally told the exact opposite


whats your opinion on the other 4 proposals?

4 and 5 are fine. Neutral to the Summoning stuff.

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

"half truths" and its literally from the game but whatever you say buddy

I explained why this isn't the case.

we are literally told the exact opposite

When The Dahlia started restoring your memories, she claimed to be a Stellaron Hunter. If that wasn't true, then why is Elio here? Or perhaps that black cat has nothing to do with Elio at all?

using its stimulation, you actually managed to enter the memories from your own perspective and remember everything anew.

Literally I want you to stop this. I am gonna report you actually

 

[Planck69]

See, this is why I avoid evaluating gacha

 

[Mbpoops]

I did see that, but like, even just not behaving normally can count towards it, which is what I interpreted the other scans of her not properly being read by the script to be.

but we have scans of her being in the script that i linked in my last message, the character with the script even says she looks familiar upon first seeing her and her mission was to prevent her from drawing her blade near the trailblazer

Firefly actually says Acheron looks familiar upon seeing her and then later says that her mission was to prevent Acheron from drawing her blade near the trailblazer.

we cant really confirm nor deny she behaves differently in the timeline because we dont see her much after penacony like at all

So even if within the script, then it would be fine. That said, I did agree with the history erasure removal, but even destruction of a normal sort on a timeline scale would be fine for that (though looking through, that doesn't seem to be the case here either?)

yea the part of the timeline wasnt really destroyed they still have records of it

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

but we have scans of her being in the script that i linked in my last message, the character with the script even says she looks familiar upon first seeing her and her mission was to prevent her from drawing her blade near the trailblazer

I already tackled this in the OP. Dahlia told Firefly what Acheron can do due to their past encounter. And no, she doesn't appear in the script. Firefly simply says she's familiar which could be for the same reason the TB did when they first entered Penacony seeing her in the dream. Retrocausality.

yea the part of the timeline wasnt really destroyed they still have records of it

I already tackled it.

See, this is why I avoid evaluating gacha

Okay but seriously this behavior has to be reportable or something. Why don't I pester mods and continue insisting when my arguments aren't agreed with?

 

[Mbpoops]

Literally I want you to stop this. I am gonna report you actually

this was in my summary? what does this even disprove

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

this was in my summary? what does this even disprove

The text straight up says that Dahlia didn't SHOW HIM ANYONE'S MEMORIES because HE SAW THEM FOR HIS OWN BY HIMSELF. HE SAW HIS OWN MEMORIES. NOBODY ELSE'S.

 

[Planck69]

I already tackled this in the OP. Dahlia told Firefly what Acheron can do due to their past encounter. And no, she doesn't appear in the script. Firefly simply says she's familiar which could be for the same reason the TB did when they first entered Penacony seeing her in the dream. Retrocausality.

I already tackled it.

Okay but seriously this behavior has to be reportable or something. Why don't I pester mods and continue insisting when my arguments aren't agreed with?

I mean, he is well within his rights to disagree with you? If you both can't convince each other then it comes down to staff. The most I can see is him mispresenting your own arguments but he's just saying your wrong, while providing scans.

 

[Mbpoops]

not gonna argue further unless needed to not further bloat real answer playing deadlock

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

I mean, he is well within his rights to disagree with you? If you both can't convince each other then it comes down to staff. The most I can see is him mispresenting your own arguments but he's just saying your wrong, while providing scans.

It's one thing to disagree with me. We go at this everyday. But idk why he can keep spamming when you've already given your input and he had his chance to present his arguments fully like I did further bloating this.

 

[Planck69]

It's one thing to disagree with me. We go at this everyday. But idk why he can keep spamming when you've already given your input and he had his chance to present his arguments fully like I did further bloating this.

Yeah, that is a general problem here. This thread won't get resolved if any and all staff input is constantly responded to and then dissolves into another supporter back and forth.

 

[Lycoris4812]

Agree with Ac4 fra.

 

[Mbpoops]

I mean, he is well within his rights to disagree with you? If you both can't convince each other then it comes down to staff. The most I can see is him mispresenting your own arguments but he's just saying your wrong, while providing scans.

can i ask what your stance is on the precog resistance after the scans? your previous message mentions her being in the scans aswell. just to clarify

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

can i ask what your stance is on the precog resistance after the scans? your previous message mentions her being in the scans aswell. just to clarify

Dahlia didn't mention her being in the script. We don't know its contents. As I linked the direct dialogue, the flashback came from the TB's memory. The script is unknown to us and our best guess is what Dahlia had in the beginning which again, doesn't mention Acheron.

Firefly: An Emanator of the Nihility!? Was she ever mentioned in the "script"?
The Dahlia: No, if it weren't for "my father's death," I wouldn't have known about this either.

The Dahlia: All you've seen is a "script" I came across by chance. It recorded everything that had happened, and using its stimulation, you actually managed to enter the memories from your own perspective and remember everything anew.

Unless you want to assume those are two seperate scripts. Which is unlikely.

 

[Mbpoops]

Dahlia didn't mention her being in the script. We don't know its contents. As I linked the direct dialogue, the flashback came from the TB's memory. The script is unknown to us and our best guess is what Dahlia had in the beginning which again, doesn't mention Acheron.

im literally just asking for clarification on his stance

 

[Vietthai96]

Ngl, if you need a wall of text, a bible just trying to explain to get a simple ability such as Aca 4, then likely you never qualified for it in the first place

As i have said before, at best i could see resistance to precog in some degree due to Eliot script feat

 

[Mbpoops]

Ngl, if you need a wall of text, a bible just trying to explain to get a simple ability such as Aca 4, then likely you never qualified for it in the first place

As i have said before, at best i could see resistance to precog in some degree due to Eliot script feat

secondly, as i found out later in this thread Acheron does show up in scripts. the entirety of 3.8 takes place in a random script the dahlia found. guess who the script writer is and guess who appeared in that script multiple times.

Thirdly, as brought up by @TheGreatJedi13 in the last thread Acheron is actually in Firefly's script. this is a bit inconsistant as in 2.2 firefly says she doesnt show up in the script but we can easily fix this.


3.8 is a retcon of events in penacony so things are 100% subject to change in the story. Firefly actually says Acheron looks familiar upon seeing her and then later says that her mission was to prevent Acheron from drawing her blade near the trailblazer. This information confirms that Acheron is within Elio's scripts. Firefly recognizes her as she saw her in the script before because her mission is to prevent Acheron from drawing her blade near the trailblazer.

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

Ngl, if you need a wall of text, a bible just trying to explain to get a simple ability such as Aca 4, then likely you never qualified for it in the first place

As i have said before, at best i could see resistance to precog in some degree due to Eliot script feat

You can't be serious. What sort of reply is this? Did you even read the post? I am tackling multiple issues and not only Acausality and I am being thorough while also pre-answering possible arguments.

 

[Vietthai96]

Well shit, no resistance then

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

Well shit, no resistance then

You're kidding right? I'd really like you to read this thread or the tldrs. This is such a weird response.

 

[Mbpoops]

Well shit, no resistance then

make it 4 months

 

[Vietthai96]

You can't be serious. What sort of reply is this? Did you even read the post? I am tackling multiple issues and not only Acausality and I am being thorough while also pre-answering possible arguments.

1. I'm not obligated to read only your post, i need to read the points from your opposition as well

2. As i have said, a wall of text for Aca 4, a very simple ability, at some point, argument itself would turn into headcanon

3. Did your point accounted for counter-argument?. I read your post you linked in the History EE removal thread and i didn't see any post account for counter-point

4. Many of your argument are actually not even align with the scan you post

fundamentally abnormal collapse under Nihility

The actual text: Yet history suddenly stopped there

that severed its historical

continuity, causal trace

The actual text: with its past and future severed with a slash

There are some more

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

1. I'm not obligated to read only your post, i need to read the points from your opposition as well

2. As i have said, a wall of text for Aca 4, a very simple ability, at some point, argument itself would turn into headcanon

3. Did your point accounted for counter-argument?. I read your post you linked in the History EE removal thread and i didn't see any post account for counter-point

4. Many of your argument are actually not even align with the scan you post






There are some more

Pardon? Nothing I wrote turned into "headcanon" when there's scans every other sentence.

This seems inappropriate to say in this forum out of them all where there's scrutiny over anything. I don't see how my post differs in any way from mbpoops when he argued against Aca Type 2?

It literally does tackle history EE. I am making multiple points about it.

I really don't understand why you think that's the case nor why you think this scan doesn't align with the text when in that paragraph I explain why that is abnormal. Even if there's a slight mismatch between the highlighted text and the scan I am a hundred percent positive that it is explained in the next sentences or the previous ones.

 

[BoastJr]

Tbf if you need to justify one ability which isn't complex or doesn't dives into metaphysical / ontology stuff with a wall of text

Chances are that it isn't what you think it is

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

Tbf if you need to justify one ability which isn't complex or doesn't dives into metaphysical / ontology stuff with a wall of text

Chances are that it isn't what you think it is

Or I am being thorough because I like being such and covering as many angles as possible? I am sorry what the hell are the both of you talking about?

I am covering 1) Acausality 2) precog resistance 3) summoning 4) relying on histoty EE 5) dispelling possible counter arguments 6) talking about shadows = black holes and more.

How exactly am I meant to cover this in a few paragraphs? Saying this when theres 5k CRTs out there is very egregious.

 

[BoastJr]

I mean...

Toji has acasuality type 4 with just 2 scans

It doesn't do anything for him tho like Viet said

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

I mean...

Toji has acasuality type 4 with just 2 scans

It doesn't do anything for him tho like Viet said

I don't know who this is and I am unsure as to how this relates to my thread in any capacity. At the end of the day if the thread is too long you're not required to read it nor evaluate it. I didn't hold a knife to anyone's throat nor did I point a gun to anyone's crotch.

 

[BoastJr]

I think the issue is some of your points are becoming circular when people (mostly moderators) have contention with it.

I am not saying you should quit but its best to re-examine your points instead of accusing others of not reading or try to highlight which points they did not agree with