Acheron vs Yhwach

[VoidGoji]

Almighty is kinda a passive thing, and Yhwach will realize that it doesn't work almost immediately because of it

Yhwach would probably resort to anything else he has, which could 1 shot as several of his Schrifts can actually work on Acheron (Yourself, X Axis, Explode, Death-Dealing, Compulsory), or use a defensive Schrift (Miracle/Viability Mid Godly Regen, Vanishing Point Nonexistence, X Axis Intangibility (pretty sure Acheron can't deal with X-Axis, Lillie is already a soul, and he can't be touched by other souls, is this layered?)) to protect himself, as Acheron has no answers to any of these.
Although if Yhwach doesn't use his defensive stuf, Acheron just has to draw her sword, plus their ranges are similar, so ig incon?

Yourself will probably end up wih him getting turbohaxxed by connecting with IX, if he can even mimic that. Miracle Mid-Godly regen can't recover from conceptual (type 1) + informational (type 2) + history erasure. She can interact with IX, who has type 2 NEP on all aspects, intangibility and NEP aren't a problem for her.
Death Dealing might be a problem, but there is one problem: She will immediately go for her sword if she feels a threat is big enough, and Yhwach is such a threat. Both due to massive AP difference and due to his stuff destabilizing the worlds (if he has SK absorbed)

 

[Adam1396]

I see.

What's stoping yhwach from one shotting her with soul crush?
Her passives can't one shot yhwach on the other hand.

 

[Voidnether]

I see.

What's stoping yhwach from one shotting her with soul crush?
Her passives can't one shot yhwach on the other hand.

Her passives one-shots him, I don't see why wouldn't it be that. And the thing stopping soul crush is because soul in hoyoverse is 1-A+ and it's also information type 2 and concept type 1

If you're talking about physical soul crush, acheron tanks it with her regeneration I believe and this would ignore the fact that yhwach's soul crush isn't immeasurable so even if acheron loses because of soul crush.. This match wouldn't be added, no?

 

[VoidGoji]

The instant she pulls out her sword, he will get time-stopped, fate haxxed, causality haxxed, EE, voidhaxxed etc to hell and back

 

[Johner2133451]

The instant she pulls out her sword, he will get time-stopped, fate haxxed, causality haxxed, EE, voidhaxxed etc to hell and back

If Acheron's main wincon is sword pull out, Yhwach can paralysis her with passive aura

 

[helello100]

If Acheron's main wincon is sword pull out, Yhwach can paralysis her with passive aura

She resists Empathic manipulation so Fear and paralysis is out.

 

[Johner2133451]

She resists Empathic manipulation so Fear and paralysis is out.

Empathic manip doesn't counter the passive paralysis? It's not even fear based

• The Death-Dealing:
  • Regeneration (Mid-Low), Information Analysis, Enhanced Poison Manipulation, Limited Transmutation, Power Modification, Enhanced Paralysis Inducement, Sleep Manipulation, Energy Projection, Death Manipulation, Passive Reactive Evolution, Sealing, Resistance Negation, Invulnerability, Matter Manipulation (Atomic), Limited Size Manipulation, Limited Teleportation, Durability Negation & Limited Immortality (Type 2; Yhwach can control any and all 'Lethal Doses' within his range. Even oxygen, hydrogen, blood, and Reishi can be affected by The Death-Dealing. He alters the dosage of any substance he ingests or tanks, manipulating the 'poison' and either granting himself complete immunity within a single minute or lowering an opponent's resistance to kill or incapacitate them. The immunity Yhwach gains to the attack makes the attack unable to even harm him. Askin can modify the lethal dose of his opponents attack to make it ineffective. Yhwach can heal wounds dealt by an attack due to his gained immunity. Furthermore with Askin's Vollständig: Hasshein. Yhwach will automatically adapt to changes in "poison;" as long as the base of the poison remains the same, any surface layer changes will cause Yhwach's immunity to adjust in turn, rendering the poison ineffective. Yhwach can consolidate The Death-Dealing's powers on a specific part of his opponents body to instantly kill parts of their body with this Schrift, even down to killing their organs one by one. Yhwach can create a "Gift Ball" that traps characters in an inescapable ball which can trap characters with Dimensional Travel. Yhwach can even infuse oxygen and hydrogen into the Gift Ball. Yhwach can also use this ability to survive his heart being ripped out temporarily)

 

[Mudducky04]

Doesn’t Yhwach just Mid-Diff her to oblivion

 

[helello100]

Empathic manip doesn't counter the passive paralysis? It's not even fear based

• The Death-Dealing:
  • Regeneration (Mid-Low), Information Analysis, Enhanced Poison Manipulation, Limited Transmutation, Power Modification, Enhanced Paralysis Inducement, Sleep Manipulation, Energy Projection, Death Manipulation, Passive Reactive Evolution, Sealing, Resistance Negation, Invulnerability, Matter Manipulation (Atomic), Limited Size Manipulation, Limited Teleportation, Durability Negation & Limited Immortality (Type 2; Yhwach can control any and all 'Lethal Doses' within his range. Even oxygen, hydrogen, blood, and Reishi can be affected by The Death-Dealing. He alters the dosage of any substance he ingests or tanks, manipulating the 'poison' and either granting himself complete immunity within a single minute or lowering an opponent's resistance to kill or incapacitate them. The immunity Yhwach gains to the attack makes the attack unable to even harm him. Askin can modify the lethal dose of his opponents attack to make it ineffective. Yhwach can heal wounds dealt by an attack due to his gained immunity. Furthermore with Askin's Vollständig: Hasshein. Yhwach will automatically adapt to changes in "poison;" as long as the base of the poison remains the same, any surface layer changes will cause Yhwach's immunity to adjust in turn, rendering the poison ineffective. Yhwach can consolidate The Death-Dealing's powers on a specific part of his opponents body to instantly kill parts of their body with this Schrift, even down to killing their organs one by one. Yhwach can create a "Gift Ball" that traps characters in an inescapable ball which can trap characters with Dimensional Travel. Yhwach can even infuse oxygen and hydrogen into the Gift Ball. Yhwach can also use this ability to survive his heart being ripped out temporarily)

This is under SBA which means Characters think losing causes dire concequences to themselfs and/or the surrending. So she instantly goes for the sword. Meanwhile Yhwach has to have knowledge first to go for schrift she doesnt resists and he doesnt uses them first as without knowledge he doesnt knows she resists allmighty. Not the mention she doesnt needs to fully pull the sword out. The moment she touches Sword's handle Yhwach gets oblirated by IX.
Also weirdly the Thread says "Acheron at her peak" Which means she starts with sword out making this a stomp instantly

 

[Johner2133451]

This is under SBA which means Characters think losing causes dire concequences to themselfs and/or the surrending. So she instantly goes for the sword. Meanwhile Yhwach has to have knowledge first to go for schrift she doesnt resists and he doesnt uses them first as without knowledge he doesnt knows she resists allmighty. Not the mention she doesnt needs to fully pull the sword out. The moment she touched Swords handle Yhwach gets oblirated by IX.
Also weirdly the Thread says "Acheron at her peak" Which means she starts with sword out making this a stomp instantly

Why would Acheron pulls out her sword instantly if she can't see yhwach in the first place? Yhwach has layered invisibility

• Likely Enhanced Invisibility (Ichigo Implies that Shinigami and hollows are similarly hard to perceive)

Also the fact that Yhwach's own soul crush can paralysis her physical body

• Aura (Overwhelming, Fear Inducement, Materialized and Explosive: Reiatsu induces a plethora of different aliments/effects onto those that affected by it like Soul Manipulation, Paralysis Inducement, Fear Manipulation and many others)

And don't mention it's fear based since Aizen was able to paralysis Grimmjow without fearhaxxing him via soul crush

 

[Voidnether]

Doesn’t Yhwach just Mid-Diff her to oblivion

No, cause this might be the first matchup that I know in which case Yhwach couldn't utilize Almighty against his opponent

Why would Acheron pulls out her sword instantly if she can't see yhwach in the first place? Yhwach has layered invisibility

Enhanced Invisibility DOES NOT mean layered invisibility, what Ichigo implies there is that Shinigami and Hollows are hard to perceive (Differentiate amongst them) — And I believe this wouldn't scale to Yhwach since he's a Quincy (Quincy hates Shinigami, and Quincy cannot resist being hollowfied/hollowfication)

Also the fact that Yhwach's own soul crush can paralysis her physical body

Yhwach's passive is massively slower than Acheron since it's not an immeasurable one..
In other case, the interval of Acheron's time stop is going to be faster than this the moment she pulls out her sword even just by a little (and the Imaginary Energy passive after she pulls out her sword)

 

[helello100]

Why would Acheron pulls out her sword instantly if she can't see yhwach in the first place? Yhwach has layered invisibility

• Likely Enhanced Invisibility (Ichigo Implies that Shinigami and hollows are similarly hard to perceive)

Also the fact that Yhwach's own soul crush can paralysis her physical body

• Aura (Overwhelming, Fear Inducement, Materialized and Explosive: Reiatsu induces a plethora of different aliments/effects onto those that affected by it like Soul Manipulation, Paralysis Inducement, Fear Manipulation and many others)

And don't mention it's fear based since Aizen was able to paralysis Grimmjow without fearhaxxing him via soul crush

I looked through the profiles and still couldnt understand the mechanics of it. But she resists Mind manipulation and Biological manipulation which paralysis inducement falls into one of (except telekinesis but this aint telekinesis as far as i know) She resists it.
Also she can see and interact with souls as far as her profile says it. Not the mention she can see/sense BlackSwan who has enchanced invisibility

 

[Johner2133451]

Enhanced Invisibility DOES NOT mean layered invisibility, what Ichigo implies there is that Shinigami and Hollows are hard to perceive (Differentiate amongst them) — And I believe this wouldn't scale to Yhwach since he's a Quincy (Quincy hates Shinigami, and Quincy cannot resist being hollowfied/hollowfication)

Yhwach's passive is massively slower than Acheron since it's not an immeasurable one..
In other case, the interval of Acheron's time stop is going to be faster than this the moment she pulls out her sword even just by a little (and the Imaginary Energy passive after she pulls out her sword)

I already asked Arc who is responsible of making bleach pages and he does confirmed it is layered in the context of invisibility

Post in thread 'BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion'

Jan 14, 2025

Yes

• Arc7Kuroi

Yhwach has shinigami physiology in his profile so it doesn't matter

• Soul Physiology, Quincy Physiology & Shinigami Physiology (Soul: High-Tier/Quincy: Sternritter-Tier/Shinigami: High-Tier)

And not only that, he has hollow physiology in his Soul King absorb key after absorbing Ichigo's hollow powers

• Corruption (Type 2; which causes Death Manipulation/Poison Manipulation/Statistics Reduction - Despite Quincy normally being poisoned by Hollows, Yhwach was able to directly absorb Ichigo's Hollow power into himself with no side effect)

The idea of passives that it always active no matter what even before they meet each other in battle

 

[Johner2133451]

I looked through the profiles and still couldnt understand the mechanics of it. But she resists Mind manipulation and Biological manipulation which paralysis inducement falls into one of (except telekinesis but this aint telekinesis as far as i know) She resists it.
Also she can see and interact with souls as far as her profile says it. Not the mention she can see/sense BlackSwan who has enchanced invisibility

The paralysis is it's own effect, not bound by other ways

Not on the profile so you have to make a CRT for Acheron to have layered enhanced senses

 

[Voidnether]

Almighty hard-counters Acheron’s kit he literally sees/alters all futures, including Acheron’s attacks. Even if she pulls her sword, he rewrites the timeline where it matters. Yhwach’s passive soul hax affects her instantly. Speed equal means Acheron’s time-stop gets negated by Almighty’s auto-resurrection. Quincy invisibility disrupts spiritual perception (proven vs. Ichigo).

Acheron's Acausality Type 2 feats in where she doesn't exist in the future (Even though Elio could see infinite possibilities) and her past literally being erased by Nihility itself:

"Instantly" And Immeasurable is faster than instantaneous, in which case that's why I said it's massively slower and Acheron's time stop is 1-A+ in potency

Soul in Honkai is 1-A+, with it equated by the mind and contains stuff like Information Type 2 with it being conceptual in nature (Concept Type 1) so...

 

[helello100]

The paralysis is it's own effect, not bound by other ways

Not on the profile so you have to make a CRT for Acheron to have layered enhanced senses

Doesnt changes anything due to how paralysis inducement works. Its literally in description that either something (in this case "reitsu" i guess?) effects muscles or skeletal structure to induce paralysis one way or through mind/fear haxxing. But she resists all of them. Due to resisting mind,biological and empathic manipulation.

 

[Johner2133451]

Doesnt changes anything due to how paralysis inducement works. Its literally in description that either something (in this case "reitsu" i guess?) effects muscles or skeletal structure to induce paralysis one way or through mind/fear haxxing. But she resists all of them. Due to resisting mind,biological and empathic manipulation.

Look at the description of the ability

This ability may be its own power, or it may come as a result of the user having any of these abilities:

For soul crush's case, its own power since no anywhere in the profile it's specified as biological

You can ask Hellscream if you dont believe me

Just stop with the bleach threads, until the profiles are fixed, literally every bleach supporter has said this.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

bro quoted bros suggestion to stop with bleach matchups while still arguing in same vs thread

 

[helello100]

Look at the description of the ability

This ability may be its own power, or it may come as a result of the user having any of these abilities:

For soul crush's case, its own power since no anywhere in the profile it's specified as biological

You can ask Hellscream if you dont believe me

Oh i believe you thats fine but still it doesnt matters, Being its own powers doesnt changes anything as it has to effect biological organs that is responsible for locomotion as the description also says. Which through resisting biological manipulation you can resist either way.

 

[helello100]

bro quoted bros suggestion to stop with bleach matchups while still arguing in same vs thread

Meh im on my holiday anyway might as well waste time until Afternoon till i drink until i get wasted

 

[Johner2133451]

Oh i believe you thats fine but still it doesnt matters, Being its own powers doesnt changes anything as it has to effect biological organs that is responsible for locomotion as the description also says. Which through resisting biological manipulation you can resist either way.

The paralysis by default its own powers considering biological manip was mentioned in the paralysis page and not on soul physiology

This ability may be its own power, or it may come as a result of the user having any of these abilities:

• Poison Manipulation
• Disease Manipulation
• Status Effect Inducement
• Fear Manipulation
• Electricity Manipulation
• Biological Manipulation
• Telekinesis
• Pressure Points

You can ask a vsbw staff to come here if you want to clear up stuff

 

[Johner2133451]

bro quoted bros suggestion to stop with bleach matchups while still arguing in same vs thread

I'm not the one who made this matchup anyway

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Meh im on my holiday anyway might as well waste time until Afternoon till i drink until i get wasted

based, might as well drive too (dont do it)

 

[helello100]

The paralysis by default its own powers considering biological manip was mentioned in the paralysis page and not on soul physiology

This ability may be its own power, or it may come as a result of the user having any of these abilities:

• Poison Manipulation
• Disease Manipulation
• Status Effect Inducement
• Fear Manipulation
• Electricity Manipulation
• Biological Manipulation
• Telekinesis
• Pressure Points

You can ask a vsbw staff to come here if you want to clear up stuff

No i meant it has to effect you either biologically or mentally. And if you say it isnt biological then most probably mentally. The power itself has to effect you by either of those but she resists both.
Just like manipulating water is a subtext of matter manipulation but also its own power.

 

[Johner2133451]

No i meant it has to effect you either biologically or mentally. And if you say it isnt biological then most probably mentally. The power itself has to effect you by either of those but she resists both.
Just like manipulating water is a subtext of matter manipulation but also its own power.

Biological resist wont counter paralysis that's by its own. Think of it like Status effect inducement

Status Effect Inducement

Status Effect is a broad term that refers to the any number of ways one is able to hinder their opponents by inflicting a variety of ailments. This is a feature most commonly seen in video games, providing additional options by generating utility outside of sheer damage. Some examples of status...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[helello100]

Biological resist wont counter paralysis that's by its own. Think of it like Status effect inducement

Status Effect Inducement

Status Effect is a broad term that refers to the any number of ways one is able to hinder their opponents by inflicting a variety of ailments. This is a feature most commonly seen in video games, providing additional options by generating utility outside of sheer damage. Some examples of status...

vsbattles.fandom.com

I didnt said such but Paralysis itself happens either physically or mentally the mental part is out. The physical part can happen biologically which she resists.
And she also resist status effect inducement not the mention there is effects that completely imprisons/paralyse you in hsr and characters resist them but only break effect statues are on the profile it seems.
Im done btw this hsr profiles gave me autism i aint commenting more

 

[Johner2133451]

I didnt said such but Paralysis itself happens either physically or mentally the mental part is out. The physical part can happen biologically which she resists.
And she also resist status effect inducement not the mention there is effects that completely imprisons/paralyse you in hsr and characters resist them but only break effect statues are on the profile it seems.
Im done btw this hsr profiles gave me autism i aint commenting more

effecting your physical part doesn't mean it's through biological manip considering magic also exists. Her status effect doesn't include paralysis

Also dont forget that Yhwach has passive death manip via his hollow physiology

• Corruption (Type 2: which causes Poison Manipulation/Power Reduction/Death Manipulation) (Hollow's passive existence/Reiryoku is innately poisonous to those without antibodies against them, just being around them causes these people's souls to erode away and die, as well as causing their spiritual powers to decrease)

 

[helello100]

effecting your physical part doesn't mean it's through biological manip considering magic also exists. Her status effect doesn't include paralysis

Also dont forget that Yhwach has passive death manip via his hollow physiology

• Corruption (Type 2: which causes Poison Manipulation/Power Reduction/Death Manipulation) (Hollow's passive existence/Reiryoku is innately poisonous to those without antibodies against them, just being around them causes these people's souls to erode away and die, as well as causing their spiritual powers to decrease)

" just being around them causes these people's souls to erode away and die" Good luck with that to a person with 1-A+ soul.
i mean i can argue imaginary imprisonment is paralysis on stereoids...but its gonna make the thread more complicated and im too lazy to make CRT about it
If there is anyway willing,it would be nice

 

[Johner2133451]

" just being around them causes these people's souls to erode away and die" Good luck with that to a person with 1-A+ soul.
i mean i can argue imaginary imprisonment is paralysis on stereoids...but its gonna make the thread more complicated and im too lazy to make CRT about it

It doesn't just effect your soul, but also the physical body

 

[helello100]

It doesn't just effect your soul, but also the physical body

The attached imagine says poisons them no physical body is mentioned only erodes souls and reduces spiritiul powers but even if thats true (doubtful) again as she resist biological manipulation,she does resists poison too.

 

[Johner2133451]

The attached imagine says poisons them no physical body is mentioned only erodes souls and reduces spiritiul powers but even if thats true (doubtful) again as she resist biological manipulation,she does resists poison too.

How does resisting biological manip makes you resist body corruption induced by death manip?

 

[helello100]

How does resisting biological manip makes you resist body corruption induced by death manip?

Because it isnt death manipulation they radiate what seems to be something that poisons them that erodes souls and kills them. By resisting the poison and soul manipulation she doesnt dies. It itself isnt death manipulation. Not the mention she also resist corruption anyway

 

[Johner2133451]

Because it isnt death manipulation they radiate what seems to be something that poisons them that erodes souls and kills them. By resisting the poison and soul manipulation she doesnt dies. It itself isnt death manipulation. Not the mention she also resist corruption anyway

It's listed in the profile that it's both poison and death manip. If you want to remove it, you can make a CRT about it

Secondly, she has no resists to corruption in her profile

 

[helello100]

It's listed in the profile that it's both poison and death manip. If you want to remove it, you can make a CRT about it

Secondly, she has no resists to corruption in her profile

Thats not how powers works in the wiki if the a certain power cause another effect in this case "death" by resisting the primary effect that is the poison/erodes soul etc you resist the secondary effect too.
I guess it got removed because i remember Fragmentum causing corruption,but my point still stands

 

[Johner2133451]

Thats not how powers works in the wiki if the a certain power cause another effect in this case "death" by resisting the primary effect that is the poison/erodes soul etc you resist the secondary effect too.
I guess it got removed because i remember Fragmentum causing corruption,but my point still stands

The corruption is the primary effect which Acheron has no resists to

 

[helello100]

Corruption through poison falls into poison manipulation.

 

[Johner2133451]

yhwach doesn't even use corruption

The corruption is passive via his hollow physiology

Corruption through poison falls into poison manipulation.

The corruption does both poison and death manip

 

[Johner2133451]

no its not passive
i mean its passive but it it does not passively win the fight, it takes time

Well not like Acheron can do much anyway because of Yhwach's layered invisibility and passive paralysis

 

[helello100]

The corruption is passive via his hollow physiology

The corruption does both poison and death manip

The Corruption itself isnt a "hax" by itself here(even though it can be but it isnt due how this corruption works). There is no "death manip" here. Just poison that erodes souls and thus it has the "death manip" subtexts to it and If corruptions only powers is to poison/erode soul she resists it.
What i meant was if a character resists reality manipulation and if its opponent uses casuality manipulation through reality manip it will resist the that casuality manip even if they dont resist the casuality manip themselfs

 

[helello100]

no enhanced invisibility does not mean layered invisibility and you have to make a CRT for layers

paralysis is a useless ability that can be bypassed/resisted very easily

I believe you can resist it by sheer willpower alone too I just didnt wrote it because i really dont wanna create another front to argue about