• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

[ACCEPTED] Lookism: Speed Upgrade

Again, my premise regarding the same happening in 1A pretty much negates it since he did knew CQC back then too.

Do you know what circular reasoning even is? And what's the difference between circular reasoning and consistency model? None of my premises assumes that it's stronger just because of the fact that it was prefered over CQC, the preferability just adds a consistency over the fact that, it was the technique that was stated to be his FP in almost all sources wether the speaker is Eugene, Zack, Yuseong or Johan himself... infact they even specifically mentioned this state to be the strongest.

Let me give another syllogism for an example:

P1: X was shown to be the strongest powerup for person P(x)

P2: X was prefered over Y in a desperate situation by P(x)

C: Therefore, X>Y (from P1 and P2)

Note: P2 is NOT an independent premise from which X > Y is inferred. Instead, it functions as a consistency model for, if P1 is true, then P2 is exactly the behavior we would expect. Using P2 alone to infer X > Y would be a non sequitur as something prefered over another doesn't automatically justifies superior of something over the other.

And if i were to write this more simply then:

S(X): X is the strongest power-up available to P.

P1: S(X)
P2: Pref(P, X, Y) [consistent with S(X)]
C: Therefore, X > Y.

I don't remember him exactly 'dodging' one attack, he was js jumping BH with the other crewheads just like how the Fist Gang boutta move the next chapter(Jumpism is real). And yes Zack>Johan but conditions were different when they fought BH, meanwhile my premises regarding BH only deals with Zack, Warren and Eli and js is there to prove that Eli>Zack(in speed), otherwise whatever happens to Johan would be conditional and would require justification from your behalf to prove that the exact conditions were met, as the burden of proof isn't on me.

This doens't 'assume' anything, i posited it as a necessity following from all my other premises. And also your negations to not lack justification, you would require for you to disprove the arguements that were pre established for this premise first as otherwise it doens't really correlates with my reasoning and justifications.

Literally not relevant with my arguements and neither it even addresses the justifications behind my C1 in which i established that UI Copy>CQC, you just proposed a possibility with seperate circumstances that says that if this happened somewhere then it could be true here, but this ignores my side of justifications and what I've posited as I've posited it as necessity(□), not possibly(◇) so your position also has the burden to justify that all conditions and circumstances in your possible countermodel matches with all the conditions with my necessity claim that I've proposed.
Anyways, allat work but can't we js agree that if not 1A then at least HFG Eli is faster than Warren as I've already proven how Jerry in HFG scales to CQC Warren and both Eli and Jake faster than Jerry and Warrrn because they have better performance against slightly serious Gun, same goes with Mandeok and Yuseong, while Vasco and Zack uhh... maybe or maybe not, I'll near towards them scaling because Vasco lwk did landed a hits on Gun and was the first one to make Gun bleed meanwhile Zack kinda impressed Gun with his speed so Zack should defferently scale to that.
 
Ts reminds me of the Mihawk agenda, lol.

Anyways, ye Zack WAS stronger than 1A Johan😭... blinded my whatever but I've already proven it in my syllogism, be was bloodlustes and was at FP.
Zack himself admitted his strongest move was just a wake up punch though that at best his speed and endurance are better no?
 
Ts reminds me of the Mihawk agenda, lol.

Anyways, ye Zack WAS stronger than 1A Johan😭... blinded my whatever but I've already proven it in my syllogism, be was bloodlustes and was at FP.
Only Drugged Johan, who had lost his reason for fighting.

We see that Base normal Johan could easily stop Basement Hulk, whereas Zack got blitzed and one-tapped. He went from being laid out asleep on the floor to dashing across the room and stopping BH from stomping on Zack with a single foot.
 
Only Drugged Johan, who had lost his reason for fighting.

We see that Base normal Johan could easily stop Basement Hulk, whereas Zack got blitzed and one-tapped. He went from being laid out asleep on the floor to dashing across the room and stopping BH from stomping on Zack with a single foot.
Nah, it was more of a stamina feat rather than him scaling higher than Zack. I mean, Johan had time to rest and recover stamina. Because Warren said none of them had any stamina when the worker's fodders showed up, and even Jake said to the others to stay out of it if they were tired, they would just be a problem.
Also, drugged Johan is Bloodlusted Johan.Even when he was using Ul, he was at his FP, by Zack's own words. So it wouldn't make sense that his base wasn't at FP in his base. So yeah Zack still scales higher than 1A base Johan
 
Again, my premise regarding the same happening in 1A pretty much negates it since he did knew CQC back then too.

Do you know what circular reasoning even is? And what's the difference between circular reasoning and consistency model? None of my premises assumes that it's stronger just because of the fact that it was prefered over CQC, the preferability just adds a consistency over the fact that, it was the technique that was stated to be his FP in almost all sources wether the speaker is Eugene, Zack, Yuseong or Johan himself... infact they even specifically mentioned this state to be the strongest.

Let me give another syllogism for an example:

P1: X was shown to be the strongest powerup for person P(x)

P2: X was prefered over Y in a desperate situation by P(x)

C: Therefore, X>Y (from P1 and P2)

Note: P2 is NOT an independent premise from which X > Y is inferred. Instead, it functions as a consistency model for, if P1 is true, then P2 is exactly the behavior we would expect. Using P2 alone to infer X > Y would be a non sequitur as something prefered over another doesn't automatically justifies superior of something over the other.

And if i were to write this more simply then:

S(X): X is the strongest power-up available to P.

P1: S(X)
P2: Pref(P, X, Y) [consistent with S(X)]
C: Therefore, X > Y.

I don't remember him exactly 'dodging' one attack, he was js jumping BH with the other crewheads just like how the Fist Gang boutta move the next chapter(Jumpism is real). And yes Zack>Johan but conditions were different when they fought BH, meanwhile my premises regarding BH only deals with Zack, Warren and Eli and js is there to prove that Eli>Zack(in speed), otherwise whatever happens to Johan would be conditional and would require justification from your behalf to prove that the exact conditions were met, as the burden of proof isn't on me.

This doens't 'assume' anything, i posited it as a necessity following from all my other premises. And also your negations to not lack justification, you would require for you to disprove the arguements that were pre established for this premise first as otherwise it doens't really correlates with my reasoning and justifications.

Literally not relevant with my arguements and neither it even addresses the justifications behind my C1 in which i established that UI Copy>CQC, you just proposed a possibility with seperate circumstances that says that if this happened somewhere then it could be true here, but this ignores my side of justifications and what I've posited as I've posited it as necessity(□), not possibly(◇) so your position also has the burden to justify that all conditions and circumstances in your possible countermodel matches with all the conditions with my necessity claim that I've proposed.
As much as I'd like to respond to this, I'm just going to tackle the main issue causing all this problem in another CRT.
 
Is it regarding it's removal? Cuz if yes then powerscalingcat is already planning to make one regarding it.
I am just gonna add relevant information from mine as a comment on cat lover's CRT as I realised that my CRT ended up being 1/3 about removing CQC and 2/3 about establishing a concrete multiplier meta for all the signature moves lol
I am probably gonna HOPEFULLY be able to write down my full reasoning by monday, tuesday at the latest but no promises as work may come up (I have 2 meetings on monday + cleaning and cooking chores)

And I'll just make the multiplier meta its own CRT which will take much longer as it will require me to reread questism + lookism + MK multiple times to compile evidence😭
Can i know the context or som?
I believe catlover's CRT is already out so you can go check it out, I'll add a link in a second

Edit:
 
The stats themselves should be fine given the calculation is accepted, but I'll leave the chainscaling to the verse supporters.
 
So this got fried?
The supersonic+ calc still needs to be applied to the characters who scale to it. Just remove the hypersonic portions now, fix some of the reasonings, add the scans, and it's good to go

Edit: The last 3 pages are fried though
 
The supersonic+ calc still needs to be applied to the characters who scale to it. Just remove the hypersonic portions now, fix some of the reasonings, add the scans, and it's good to go

Edit: The last 3 pages are fried though
I'll still save the args in my stash js in case and will delete these from the crt and would get the chainscaling.

I did proposed that HFBD Johan scaling so after ts, everyone is scaling to that.
 
I'll still save the args in my stash js in case and will delete these from the crt and would get the chainscaling.

I did proposed that HFBD Johan scaling so after ts, everyone is scaling to that.
No arguments here, didn't really have issues with the Base HFBD Johan supersonic+ scaling
 
Btw shouldn't James with Path should have hypersonic speed? Since Death kick has 3x Multiplier and he was able intercept via Path

Actually I think we can scaling for High Tiers since James path was cancelled by Kitae's Path so they should have relative speed at least

Path Jinyoung (since he was able went toe to toe with Path Kitae)
TB UI Daniel (again same reasoning as Jinyoung)
SB UI Daniel (cause TB UI was trying to copy him)
Gapyrong Kim (Same realm as Kitae)
Shingen Yamazaki (Same realm as Kitae)
 
Last edited:
Back
Top