[ACCEPTED] Lookism: Speed Upgrade

[WindyAttack]

Feel like that's more of a hyperbole than anything since we know CQC is a very specific card in-verse, we'd see the pop-up being used like for other martial arts

I don't think it's far fetched since we know martial arts cards can be purchased and maybe Choyun bought all cards available (except exclusive ones)

 

[Mercury009]

Apologies, I 100% lied when I said it's a card. It's not; it appears to be an "effect" of the copy card itself. Which does lead me to believe that Suhyeon can't actually load it at all. You can argue for him to load copy and ask Haru to perform CQC on him, but that's entering headcanon territory and has never really been shown.

 

[Aksh_sky]

Feel like that's more of a hyperbole than anything since we know CQC is a very specific card in-verse, we'd see the pop-up being used like for other martial arts

No. CQC comes from copy card that can be loaded with loading card.

 

[Mercury009]

Not fully correct.

The card does state that the user is required to have seen the technique at least once. Has Suhyeon personally seen someone using CQC? The only instance of said technique being used in questism that I remember is Haru using it on Uijin.

Edit: The dude was literally right next to Haru when he used it first, FML

 

[Aksh_sky]

Not fully correct.

The card does state that the user is required to have seen the technique at least once. Has Suhyeon personally seen someone using CQC? The only instance of said technique being used in questism that I remember is Haru using it on Uijin.

He doesn't need to. Loading card can use other's card and it's inner component cards aswell for example when Shooyun loaded Hajun's card and he could use it's component card too even though the overlord cards requires specific conditions for Hajun himself but if he loads that card he is loading the whole card of Hajun as basically Hajun himself. Similarly if Shooyun loads Haru's copy he is copying the whole card itself and can use every techs he copied himself and doesn't require to see them himself, he can load every card that can be used as copy card too. Therefore Shooyun can use all cards that his crew members CAN use...ALL cards they can use...UNLESS... it's specified he can't.

 

[Aksh_sky]

Apologies, I 100% lied when I said it's a card. It's not; it appears to be an "effect" of the copy card itself. Which does lead me to believe that Suhyeon can't actually load it at all. You can argue for him to load copy and ask Haru to perform CQC on him, but that's entering headcanon territory and has never really been shown.

Lol, didn't read ur msg. But yeah i did said that. Copy doesn't give access users cards themselves like Haru can use Daniel's OVT but doesn't have the card.

 

[Aksh_sky]

I don't think it's far fetched since we know martial arts cards can be purchased and maybe Choyun bought all cards available (except exclusive ones)

CQC isn't exclusive. There's literally even a forgotten ancient martial arts that Choyun used called overlord's legacy, so if he can get such cards he can get those too knowing CQC is pretty accessible.

 

[Mercury009]

I dont think that's necessarily true. The correct order would be:
1. Load the card (Copy)
2. Use a technique the user has seen once personally

The second step is a condition that's specifically implemented in the card, not tied to the user memory or experience. Though like a said: The dude watched Haru use CQC in real time and the card itself seem retro-active (Haru didn't have Copy card when he saw CQC yet managed to pull it off). So it doesn't matter that much

 

[Aksh_sky]

I dont think that's necessarily true. The correct order would be:
1. Load the card (Copy)
2. Use a technique the user has seen once personally

The second step is a condition that's specifically implemented in the card, not tied to the user memory or experience. Though like a said: The dude watched Haru use CQC in real time and the card itself seem retro-active (Haru didn't have Copy card when he saw CQC yet managed to pull it off). So it doesn't matter that much

I'm PRETTY sure Shooyun used Daniel's Aikido from Haru's copy too. I just kinda remember.

 

[Aksh_sky]

On the timeline part "after HFBD before he got kidnapped" doesn't work. After HFBD, Johan was stuck in the first affiliate for an unknown stretch of time, and it's only after he's freed that the Hunt for Gun arc takes place. So Tom's statement has to be placed post-HFBD and pre-Hunt for Gun at the earliest. If you do want to place this before HFBD, then you can't say the 5% includes CQC since Johan only learned and mastered CQC after his fight with Manager Kim in HFBD. So whichever Gun, Tom was referencing, it wasn't the weaker HFBD-era Gun.

I don't remember Gun showing any better feats after HFBD and before HFG so nothing really changes. He still scaled to his HFBD version because if you say he doesn't then that'll require evidence that he got noticably stronger, thus Ryuhei would scale to this.

Also, you're claiming Adrenaline barely boosts Gun's stats, but that's needs its own backing. If Adrenaline actually is a meaningful boost, then Adrenaline Gun and base Gun aren't close in power at all, which means CQC losing to Adrenaline Gun and UI Copy beating base Gun still isn't a fair comparison. You'd just be comparing a form boost against a strong opponent to a different technique against a much weaker one. And even if Adrenaline turns out to be minor, that still doesn't save the comparison because CQC didn't just lose to Gun, it lost badly enough that Johan had to unlock Path to avoid getting destroyed. That's not "CQC slightly underperformed," that's "CQC failed outright in that specific fight." Whatever margin Adrenaline is or isn't providing, it doesn't change the fact that Johan was completely outmatched in that encounter

Ye but that still doens't disprove the fact that UI copy scales relative to CQC and that's just based performance and narrative wise. UI copy is also a multiplier over Johan's base like CQC easily and it'd be absolutely wrong to say that CQC Johan somehow scaled 3x over UI Copy. You'd just be objectively wrong if u said that and it'd just be lying.

Going back to "you need a separate CRT for something that's been blatantly stated to be Johan's FP", multipliers on this wiki are treated strictly, and equating one form/technique as definitively above another, requires its own CRT with direct supporting scans, not just a general "it's obviously his strongest" impression. "Blatant" is just your subjective interpretation and it's not an accepted standard until it's actually been through that process. So while I won't say you need to make a separate CRT, you need to at least have a portion on this post (and title) saying why it should be accepted, because it's not something that can just be glossed over. Especially if your CRT scaling upgrades are going to be related heavily to said multiplier. (UI Copy Mode)

Not like I'd need to because performance wise both as similar because UI Copy was stronger than crying Yuseong meanwhile when both Johan and Yuseong were equally tired, Yuseong more damaged btw, CQC got interrupted meanwhile FP Yuseong couldn't do any of these against UI Copy, thus he'd safely scale to CQC Johan. Same reason why UI Copy was used against Zack and Gun because it was bloodlusted Johan and it even narritively makes sense to use his strongest stuff first to beat Gun asap because if CQC really was stronger than UI Copy then it'd narritively make no sense because Johan had no reasons to hold back against Gun or Zack and was bloodlusted against both. So Zack would also scale to CQC Johan via his counterattack. Zack won fair and square and Johan wasn't holding back a bit and used the strongest thing he had, it's even stated multiple times by Zack just to support the author's narritive and convey it through Zack and show the that Zack won fairly and Johan WASN'T HOLDING BACK EVEN A BIT. Yes that was blind and drugged Johan but he still scales leagues above Daniel.

Again even if it's Base Gun we say who would scale to CQC Johan, even then charecters like Vasco, Zack, Eli, Jake, Daniel, Mandeok and Yuseong in HFG would scale to Gun in speed because they all were able to land hits on him and somewhat scaled to that version of Gun.

Charecters like CT Samuel, Jake and other folks would also easily scale above even Adrenaline Gun due to Ryu scaling and Samuel low diffing him.

The most thing that'd change would be very few charecters being removed from this list.

 

[Aksh_sky]

I disagree heavily on using clothes for timeline. We see that this isn't a good way to identify a timeline when Goo appears in MK with his 3A outfit, despite him coming in long before 4A even began. The same happens when Eli appears in Juvenile Law with his 3A haircut, despite JL taking place at least some years later.

YES, outfit CAN very much determine the timeline, for example Jaegyeon wearing Yugang's jacket. By the time he wore it we knew that the timeline took place before Jaeg met Goo and when Goo was around 16 or 17 meanwhile after he started wearing other outfit we know that Goo has that jacket now because Jaeg gave it to him and therefore we know that Cheonliang arc happened before Jaeg met Goo.

Goo's outfit that he wore was actually Gun's which Gun wore in early lookism, and Goo borrowed that outfit from Gun like he did in 1A so yeah that can deffinately happen that he wears such outfits before too because Gun owned that way before.

Similarly in this case, it's not just about Vasco's outfit but it's also about Vasco's hairstyle because we know Vasco changed him hairstyle right after HFG and before Busan so obviously Shooyun wouldn't meet Daniel around that time. So post HFG in the most recent time if we say then that won't work either since we never saw Vasco wear that outfit again after 1A, he instead weats a burn knuckle jacket instead. And tbh, narritively it makes no sense for Daniel to meet Shooyun right after Charles's death because Daniel and Shooyun collabed to defeat 'Great Evil' but after HFG, Daniel himself said and implied it multiple times that there's no threat anymore and everything's chill.

The whole Post-Timeskip Questism took longer than 3 weeks, easily at least a month. There's no chance a month passed between Daniel making the deal with Eugene & Daniel taking the trip to Cheonliang under Eugene's orders. Especially since it was in their plan to get Charles Choi's weakness.

No evidence for either of them, lol. You cannot prove either that 3 weeks or a month passed post TS in Quetsism as that's js headcanons and same with that, similar amount of time cannot pass after the deal.

Infact, Daniel was pretty desperate for getting strong forces at that time so it makes way more sense even.

They met in between post 1A and before HFG.

 

[Aksh_sky]

@MVMRainAngel

hey, since u liked the OP, do you agree with the crt?

Just wanted to ask and clear things out.

 

[Pyro9278]

Can someone summarize what's happening now? I don't understand why we're switching from discussing speed to the Questism and Lookism timeline. I understand that Questism should take place after 1A since Johan has already mastered CQC by that point.

 

[WindyAttack]

YES, outfit CAN very much determine the timeline, for example Jaegyeon wearing Yugang's jacket. By the time he wore it we knew that the timeline took place before Jaeg met Goo and when Goo was around 16 or 17 meanwhile after he started wearing other outfit we know that Goo has that jacket now because Jaeg gave it to him and therefore we know that Cheonliang arc happened before Jaeg met Goo.

Goo's outfit that he wore was actually Gun's which Gun wore in early lookism, and Goo borrowed that outfit from Gun like he did in 1A so yeah that can deffinately happen that he wears such outfits before too because Gun owned that way before.

Similarly in this case, it's not just about Vasco's outfit but it's also about Vasco's hairstyle because we know Vasco changed him hairstyle right after HFG and before Busan so obviously Shooyun wouldn't meet Daniel around that time. So post HFG in the most recent time if we say then that won't work either since we never saw Vasco wear that outfit again after 1A, he instead weats a burn knuckle jacket instead. And tbh, narritively it makes no sense for Daniel to meet Shooyun right after Charles's death because Daniel and Shooyun collabed to defeat 'Great Evil' but after HFG, Daniel himself said and implied it multiple times that there's no threat anymore and everything's chill.

No evidence for either of them, lol. You cannot prove either that 3 weeks or a month passed post TS in Quetsism as that's js headcanons and same with that, similar amount of time cannot pass after the deal.

Infact, Daniel was pretty desperate for getting strong forces at that time so it makes way more sense even.

They met in between post 1A and before HFG.

Questisms ending most likely happens after HFG and when haru went to learn CQC From Johan it was already after 1A

 

[Aksh_sky]

Questisms ending most likely happens after HFG and when haru went to learn CQC From Johan it was already after 1A

I've already explained that it's not the case.

 

[Pyro9278]

Okay, while I look at some context, I'm going to comment on some concerns about the scaling that OP raises and how to resolve them:

• Yuseong FP isn't three times stronger than Johan FP. We also don't have an accurate comparison between PB Copy and CQC, starting with the fact that Zack doesn't have context on all of Johan's techniques, nor does Tom Lee know everything he knows, and he's not even referring to that; that's misinterpreting what he really means.
• Instead of scaling Yuseong FP to Johan, MK Base should scale to Johan CQC. Creating a chain scaling roughly like this: Johan CQC (Hypersonic) = Manager Kim (Base) < Manager Kim (CQC - Hypersonic+) < Tom Lee FP and comparable or superior players < Daniel UI CQC (High Hypersonic+).
• The people who scale Tom Lee should be: Gun, Goo, Jinyoung, James, Kitae, Daniel and Johan with his Path, the entire Gapryong Kim Fist Gang on his Prime, and obviously Shingen and Gapryong Kim both on and off his Prime.
• Just to clarify, Haru shouldn't scale to this feat; at most, he only "reduces" it, but he doesn't scale it completely. I believe that Haru and comparables should instead have subsonic+ speed starting from their CQC multiplier.

 

[Pyro9278]

Questisms ending most likely happens after HFG and when haru went to learn CQC From Johan it was already after 1A

We have no concrete evidence that this happened. It is purely speculation.

 

[CatLover313]

I don't remember Gun showing any better feats after HFBD and before HFG so nothing really changes. He still scaled to his HFBD version because if you say he doesn't then that'll require evidence that he got noticably stronger, thus Ryuhei would scale to this.

Gun is explicitly established as a training genius with Charles himself says Gun is always training and getting stronger, a stated trait about continuous improvement, not just an unknown time skip. So the burden is on you to prove he didn't grow stronger, not on us to prove he did. Using HFG Gun as a stand-in for HFBD Gun's performance isn't valid unless you can show they're the same power level, and "no explicit new feat shown" doesn't clear that bar for a character whose whole thing is passive, ongoing growth.

Ye but that still doens't disprove the fact that UI copy scales relative to CQC and that's just based performance and narrative wise. UI copy is also a multiplier over Johan's base like CQC easily and it'd be absolutely wrong to say that CQC Johan somehow scaled 3x over UI Copy. You'd just be objectively wrong if u said that and it'd just be lying.

This assumes the exact thing that's unproven and what we're arguing: that CQC and UI Copy are relative/comparable at all. Nobody's actually established that they sit on the same axis where one can be said to "scale over" the other. You're treating "not disproven to be relative" as equivalent to "proven to be relative." Until there's an actual scan/statement putting the two head-to-head, saying either one "scales over" the other is the real overreach and requires it's own section of the CRT to prove.

Not like I'd need to because performance wise both as similar because UI Copy was stronger than crying Yuseong meanwhile when both Johan and Yuseong were equally tired, Yuseong more damaged btw, CQC got interrupted meanwhile FP Yuseong couldn't do any of these against UI Copy, thus he'd safely scale to CQC Johan. Same reason why UI Copy was used against Zack and Gun because it was bloodlusted Johan and it even narritively makes sense to use his strongest stuff first to beat Gun asap because if CQC really was stronger than UI Copy then it'd narritively make no sense because Johan had no reasons to hold back against Gun or Zack and was bloodlusted against both. So Zack would also scale to CQC Johan via his counterattack. Zack won fair and square and Johan wasn't holding back a bit and used the strongest thing he had, it's even stated multiple times by Zack just to support the author's narritive and convey it through Zack and show the that Zack won fairly and Johan WASN'T HOLDING BACK EVEN A BIT. Yes that was blind and drugged Johan but he still scales leagues above Daniel.

The first two sentences were already addressed, you can't use interrupted CQC against Yuseong as a comparison point when both fighters were already heavily injured, had already passed out once, and Yuseong and Johan passed out again after. That's two exhausted fighters at the end of a fight, not a clean read on CQC's capability. As for the rest (the "narratively makes sense to use his strongest tool first" argument), that entire chain only works if CQC ~= UI Copy is already true, which is the exact premise in dispute. You can't use "it'd be illogical to hold back if CQC were stronger" as evidence when the logic pre-assumes UI Copy is the stronger option. It's circular.

Again even if it's Base Gun we say who would scale to CQC Johan, even then charecters like Vasco, Zack, Eli, Jake, Daniel, Mandeok and Yuseong in HFG would scale to Gun in speed because they all were able to land hits on him and somewhat scaled to that version of Gun.

Charecters like CT Samuel, Jake and other folks would also easily scale above even Adrenaline Gun due to Ryu scaling and Samuel low diffing him.

The most thing that'd change would be very few charecters being removed from this list.

No disagreement with the conclusion, since I already have Gun >= CQC Johan through my comment above. So tagging Gun naturally carries them along regardless. That just needs to be attributed to that reasoning, not folded in as support for the UI Copy > CQC argument.

 

[Pyro9278]

I'm more inclined to agree with CatLover313's arguments. I don't really think CQC and UI Copy are comparable, especially since they both start from completely different points. UI Copy stems from the fight in 3A, and as we know, UI Daniel adapts to that fighting style. This means Johan wasn't using UI Daniel's techniques because they would amplify his physical abilities too much; he was using them because they were more precise, more correct, or, in the best term, "perfect"—exactly what he needed to finish a fight quickly, like the one in Yuseong.

Meanwhile, he learned CQC during his fight with Manager Kim, and we know that CQC as a fighting style involves countless movements and variations. However, it's not necessarily the best option for him in terms of skill, because he doesn't know the best way to use CQC, and whether that would be more feasible than a more efficient fighting technique.

 

[WindyAttack]

We have no concrete evidence that this happened. It is purely speculation.

Premise 1: Johan Seong learned CQC during HFBD while fighting Manager Kim.

Premise 2: Immediately after HFBD, Johan was captured and confined by the Workers, leaving him no opportunity to teach Haru Seong CQC.

Premise 3: Haru Seong was shown already knowing CQC taught by Johan.

Premise 4: Johan was only released after the 1A Arc ended.

Premise 5: After the 1A Arc, there was a two-month timeskip in which Haru trained under Johan.

Premise 6: If Haru learned CQC from Johan, and Johan had no chance to teach him before 1A, then that training must have happened after 1A.

Conclusion: Therefore, the Johan being shown is at least two months after the 1A Arc, not HFBD Johan. Any claim that it is HFBD Johan contradicts the established canon.

 

[Scarlet_orchard]

Okay, while I look at some context, I'm going to comment on some concerns about the scaling that OP raises and how to resolve them:

• Yuseong FP isn't three times stronger than Johan FP. We also don't have an accurate comparison between PB Copy and CQC, starting with the fact that Zack doesn't have context on all of Johan's techniques, nor does Tom Lee know everything he knows, and he's not even referring to that; that's misinterpreting what he really means.
• Instead of scaling Yuseong FP to Johan, MK Base should scale to Johan CQC. Creating a chain scaling roughly like this: Johan CQC (Hypersonic) = Manager Kim (Base) < Manager Kim (CQC - Hypersonic+) < Tom Lee FP and comparable or superior players < Daniel UI CQC (High Hypersonic+).
• The people who scale Tom Lee should be: Gun, Goo, Jinyoung, James, Kitae, Daniel and Johan with his Path, the entire Gapryong Kim Fist Gang on his Prime, and obviously Shingen and Gapryong Kim both on and off his Prime.
• Just to clarify, Haru shouldn't scale to this feat; at most, he only "reduces" it, but he doesn't scale it completely. I believe that Haru and comparables should instead have subsonic+ speed starting from their CQC multiplier.

So from what I’m getting
MK did react to johans cqc(via him saying Johan almost succeeded after getting hit with it and saying Johan still needs to copy all the forms/stances so it can be complete meaning that when Johan used to cqc on him he reacted and saw the stance he used and since mk was rel to or faster than Johan he should be rel or faster than cqc Johan(atleast at that time if mk uses his cqc)And MK is weaker than tom


Who is weaker than ui Daniel


So MK is Mach 24.03(via being rel to Johan in cqc mode because Johan at base form for safe reasons is equal to Daniel’s Mach 2.67 feat and add the 3X cqc multiplier should be Mach 8.01 and cqc MK should be faster)and then for safety tom is equal to MK in speed(since a holding back Tom lee is rel to or above mk) and then since tom while not burning himself isn't rel to James in speed and kitae is rel to James in speed via dodging speed mastery James and counter attacking and PB Daniel is rel to kitae(via the fight in 602) so PB Daniel in base should be equal to Mach 24.03 for safe reasons and then with 3X multiplier is Mach 72.09 and this should all be valid since this only applies to like god tiers

 

[Pyro9278]

Premise 1: Johan Seong learned CQC during HFBD while fighting Manager Kim.

Premise 2: Immediately after HFBD, Johan was captured and confined by the Workers, leaving him no opportunity to teach Haru Seong CQC.

Premise 3: Haru Seong was shown already knowing CQC taught by Johan.

Premise 4: Johan was only released after the 1A Arc ended.

Premise 5: After the 1A Arc, there was a two-month timeskip in which Haru trained under Johan.

So far, so good. Even though some time has passed, there's no indication that it will happen after or during HFG.

 

[Pyro9278]

So from what I’m getting
MK did react to johans cqc(via him saying Johan almost succeeded after getting hit with it and saying Johan still needs to copy all the forms/stances so it can be complete meaning that when Johan used to cqc on him he reacted and saw the stance he used and since mk was rel to or faster than Johan he should be rel or faster than cqc Johan(atleast at that time if mk uses his cqc)And MK is weaker than tom


Who is weaker than ui Daniel


So MK is Mach 24.03(via being rel to Johan in cqc mode because Johan at base form for safe reasons is equal to Daniel’s Mach 2.67 feat and add the 3X cqc multiplier should be Mach 8.01 and cqc MK should be faster)and then for safety tom is equal to MK in speed(since a holding back Tom lee is rel to or above mk) and then since tom while not burning himself isn't rel to James in speed and kitae is rel to James in speed via dodging speed mastery James and counter attacking and PB Daniel is rel to kitae(via the fight in 602) so PB Daniel in base should be equal to Mach 24.03 for safe reasons and then with 3X multiplier is Mach 72.09 and this should all be valid since this only applies to like god tiers

Exactly. Perhaps other god-tier are also High Hypersonic+, but due to certain issues with the multiplier, we can't assume that on this CRT. It would require another one. But yes, that's how it had to be.

 

[Aksh_sky]

Yuseong FP isn't three times stronger than Johan FP. We also don't have an accurate comparison between PB Copy and CQC, starting with the fact that Zack doesn't have context on all of Johan's techniques, nor does Tom Lee know everything he knows, and he's not even referring to that; that's misinterpreting what he really means.

Tom knows that Johan has CQC tho. He is knowledgeable about CQC.

 

[Aksh_sky]

Instead of scaling Yuseong FP to Johan, MK Base should scale to Johan CQC. Creating a chain scaling roughly like this: Johan CQC (Hypersonic) = Manager Kim (Base) < Manager Kim (CQC - Hypersonic+) < Tom Lee FP and comparable or superior players < Daniel UI CQC (High Hypersonic+).

Ya have scans for base MK scaling to CQC Johan and Tom scaling to CQC MK?

 

[WindyAttack]

So far, so good. Even though some time has passed, there's no indication that it will happen after or during HFG.

I'm pretty sure HFG Happened during those 2 months gap

 

[Kakistan]

YES, outfit CAN very much determine the timeline, for example Jaegyeon wearing Yugang's jacket. By the time he wore it we knew that the timeline took place before Jaeg met Goo and when Goo was around 16 or 17 meanwhile after he started wearing other outfit we know that Goo has that jacket now because Jaeg gave it to him and therefore we know that Cheonliang arc happened before Jaeg met Goo.

Goo's outfit that he wore was actually Gun's which Gun wore in early lookism, and Goo borrowed that outfit from Gun like he did in 1A so yeah that can deffinately happen that he wears such outfits before too because Gun owned that way before.

Similarly in this case, it's not just about Vasco's outfit but it's also about Vasco's hairstyle because we know Vasco changed him hairstyle right after HFG and before Busan so obviously Shooyun wouldn't meet Daniel around that time. So post HFG in the most recent time if we say then that won't work either since we never saw Vasco wear that outfit again after 1A, he instead weats a burn knuckle jacket instead. And tbh, narritively it makes no sense for Daniel to meet Shooyun right after Charles's death because Daniel and Shooyun collabed to defeat 'Great Evil' but after HFG, Daniel himself said and implied it multiple times that there's no threat anymore and everything's chill.

No evidence for either of them, lol. You cannot prove either that 3 weeks or a month passed post TS in Quetsism as that's js headcanons and same with that, similar amount of time cannot pass after the deal.

Infact, Daniel was pretty desperate for getting strong forces at that time so it makes way more sense even.

They met in between post 1A and before HFG.

I can very easily prove a month passed. The card cooldowns, more specifically the cooldown of Miracle which was used a few days into post-timeskip against Ma Jeongdu and then again in the Choyun Fight.

"narritively it makes no sense for Daniel to meet Shooyun right after Charles's death because Daniel and Shooyun collabed to defeat 'Great Evil' but after HFG, Daniel himself said and implied it multiple times that there's no threat anymore and everything's chill."

That's the POINT. Daniel has never known who the Great Evil was. In the Epilogue though, it seems clear both he and Suhyeon know who the final boss is. Daniel didn't even know that James Lee was evil until Busan, long after HFG. He literally talks about the "Enemy intends to devour the World." This does not apply to Charles, especially since the Questism Manhwa CENSORS THE NAME OF THE VILLAIN (Charles Choi was already dead for half a year by the time this Chapter came out).

We only find out in Hunt For Workers via Chairman Hong that a "Bigger Enemy" behind the scenes exists.
Furthermore, they're literally heading out to fight the Boss in the Epilogue, yet United Gangbuk is nowhere to be seen in Lookism & Daniel talks about a shortage of allies + having no strategists (Gangbuk has at least 5 Advisors with S Intelligence or higher).

The biggest piece of evidence: Allied goes to Gangbuk right around HFW to find talent, but why would that be necessary if they already have the support of everyone in United Gangbuk? There would be zero reason to go there personally considering Suhyeon Kim could ask recruit people on his own & on a much grander scale due to his crew of 400+ people.

 

[Powerscalingcat]

So in this crt I'll be scaling the speed of lookism Mid, High and God tiers based on a recent accepted calc(913.85 m/s).

To put this simply, this feat is done by a Mid-tier in the overall ptj verse and I'll be discussing here regarding who would scale to this feat and who'll receive multipliers over this feat.

Questism:
Since the charecter, Daniel himself is also from the series, Quetsism so therefore I'll discuss regarding who would scale to this feat.

So as for Quetsism scaling, it's pretty straightforward tbh because we literally are given all stats for charecters in Quetsism so it's pretty easy to chainscale. So first of all, Daniel was doing this feat had XXX stats, so it's pretty straightforward regarding who would scale to this. That's right, anyone with XXX or higher stats would scale to this, which are: DX, EX and Immeasurable(Upper limit of the peeking card, meaning after hitting immeasurable, the card cannot quantify one's stats anymore after they've hit immeasurable stats no matter how much their stats are).

I'll basically name every charecters who would scale to this feat in Quetsism(everyone whom I remember):

• Kim Shooyun
• Choyun
• Gu Hajun
• Daniel
• Ma Jeongdu
• UI Yang Gukja

All of them have speed stats at XXX of higher in their strongest forms shown. Lets move on to the real deal, Lookism charecters:

Lookism:

Johan Seong appeared a few times i Questism, all of which times he was shown to have Immeasurable stats, which I've already stated to be higher than XXX stats.

Which means that Base Johan in and after HFBD would scale to Supersonic+(913.85 m/s) and Hypersonic(2,741.55 m/s) with CQC, which is an accepted 3x multiplier for AP and Speed, already accepted in a crt.

Now anyone who scales to CQC Johan would scale to Hypersonic. Everyone who directly scales to CQC Johan are:

• FP Yuseong (Was able to save Eugene from and Injured Johan's CQC while being injured himself and was able to save him from all last of his strength)

• Gun Park - Adrenaline Mode (counterattacked CQC Johan from a VERY close distance)

• Johan Seong - Path (Was overwhelming Adrenaline Gun badly in terms of speed)

Hence other high tiers would also scale to this, there are just too many to name here but yeah...Anyone above HFBD CQC Johan would scale to Hypersonic. This would include: most guys from pre-generation, top tiers of 1st generation and top tiers of 2nd generation.

I'll try to include as many people as i can because this scaling applies to many.

Pre-generation:

• Almost everyone scales above HFBD Yuseong or CQC Johan. That's like pretty obvious ngl since almost everyone has masteries.

1st Generation:

• Someone like Jichang Kwak (Was able fight OG UI Daniel and Charles Choi)

• Kim Kitae (A God tier of the verse)

• Lee Jihoon (Same as Kitae)

• Jinrang (Overpowered Kitae for a while before his body gave up due to the overcome. He already was tired and fatigued before. Base Jinrang should also scale to it by simply being a menace as he overpowered few 2nd gens, Gong and Taeso)

• Seongji Yuk (Was able to outspeed 2T James)

• Changsu Oh (Was able to fight Jinyoung Park, who is a pre gen top tier)

• Jaegyeon Na (Easily overpowered Sang Baek and Baekjin while holding back and dodged James's kick)

• Yujae Seon (Overpowered Jaegyeon Na and outperformed him)

• Sang Baek (Was matching Zack in speed)

• Baekjin (Was able to blitz AI Eli)

• UF Taeso Ma (Blitzed Busan no 5)

• 1S1K Gongseop (Blitzed Busan no 6)

• Ja-un Ryu (made Paecheon go FP)

• Mugak Wang (Both Ryu and Mugak and similar in stats)

That's pretty much everyone i could remember.

1.5 gen and others:

• Basement Hulk (Made Johan, Eli, Jake and Samuel struggle badly. All 4 majot crewheads could barely do much)

• Kim Joongoo (Self explanatory. Currently probably t1 in the verse and a God tier because be low diffed Paecheon with only 8 moonlight swords while having 42 more, each increasing his speed significantly but unquanfiably. Paecheon was implied to be Shingen level by Shintaro, and Shintaro should be authoritative enough to be knowledgeable about Shingen's power.)

2nd Generation:

• Kim Gimyoung (Destroyed Mugak)

• Seo Seong-Eun (Low different Ja-un Ryu)

• Mandeok Bang (Narratively shown to be around Yuseong level)

• Park Hyungseok - OG Body (Self explanatory, is a top tier in the verse currently and all his modes including base would scale to this)

• Park Hyungseok - SB Body (would scale to this speed in Heat Mode as he managed to give Jaegyeon a fight.)

• Jang Hyeung (deflected BH's attacks and fought well against him and Gun)

• Lee Jin-Sung (defeated killing intent Johan)

• Kuroda Ryuhei (gave Gun a good fight in HFBD and grew wayy stronger and faster later in the series with his ninja techs)

That's pretty much everyone i could remember.

Now moving on to another multiplier.

UI PB Daniel, specifically would scale to Hypersonic+ (8,224.65 m/s) with CQC because PB Daniel in his UI mode already scales above CQC Johan in base because he went toe to toe with TUI Gun park who is already wayy faster than Adrenaline Gun, UI Daniel was even overpowering TUI Gun is all factors for a while(ch-515) before Gun exploited UI Daniel's weakness. UI Daniel himself can also use CQC, which would give him a 3x speed multiplier over his base which already scales to 2,741 m/s and with CQC, he'd scale to 8,224 m/s.

Now there's nobody in the verse currently who concretely scales to CQC UI Daniel or FP UI Daniel in general, so therefore nobody really scales to him since Daniel is just as strong, fast and durable as his opponent gets so it makes it even harder to chainscale him to charecters especially if we're testing his upper limit because that just makes it impossible for anyone to scale to UI Daniel's upper limit.

Ik this crt kinda looks bad but that's the first time me making an upgrade crt so...yeah.

Agree: @Aksh_sky, @Sigmagoon14, @WindyAttack, @Pyro9278, @Scarlet_orchard, @Mriiicydragon, @MVMRainAngel

Neutral:

Disagree:

Agree with everything except HFBD Johan getting a 3x multiplier to his speed, since he copied regular CQC and the CRT you linked it was accepted that only special CQC (Warren's jeet kune do CQC, War mode, knife CQC, Gun CQC etc should have the 3x multiplier since special CQC is the only CQC that has a stated multiplier, catlover has already explained the results of the CRT in multiple other threads multiple times)

Otherwise everything else makes sense

 

[Powerscalingcat]

I wouldn't use Yuseong as a reference point, since that would imply Yuseong is at least three times faster than Johan. It also doesn't help that Johan was quite fatigued by that point.

True. There is also the fact that jumping in front of someone to shield them with your body when you are already next to them and the person trying to hit them is quite a distance away wouldn't really count as conventional reaction, since if Yuseong fully scaled to Johan's speed he could have pushed Eugene out of the way instead of having to jump in front of him to shield him lol

 

[Aksh_sky]

Agree with everything except HFBD Johan getting a 3x multiplier to his speed, since he copied regular CQC and the CRT you linked it was accepted that only special CQC (Warren's jeet kune do CQC, War mode, knife CQC, Gun CQC etc should have the 3x multiplier since special CQC is the only CQC that has a stated multiplier, catlover has already explained the results of the CRT in multiple other threads multiple times)

Otherwise everything else makes sense

No in the crt, normal CQC also recives the 3x. But tbh, Johan also has special CQC because he copied MK's. And even if we say he doesn't, base Warren scaled above Daniel do CQC Warren would either ways have the 2741 m/s scaling and since Jerry scales to CQC Warren and UI Daniel scales leagues above both, there's UI Daniel with Warren's CQC would scale to there nly.

 

[Aksh_sky]

True. There is also the fact that jumping in front of someone to shield them with your body when you are already next to them and the person trying to hit them is quite a distance away wouldn't really count as conventional reaction, since if Yuseong fully scaled to Johan's speed he could have pushed Eugene out of the way instead of having to jump in front of him to shield him lol

Ye makes sense tbh but I've already explained that UI Copy Johan scales to CQC Johan and Yuseong scaled to him and similarly, CQC Johan scales below base Gun and Ryuhei scales to HFBD base Gun in speed.

 

[Powerscalingcat]

No in the crt, normal CQC also recives the 3x. But tbh, Johan also has special CQC because he copied MK's. And even if we say he doesn't, base Warren scaled above Daniel do CQC Warren would either ways have the 2741 m/s scaling and since Jerry scales to CQC Warren and UI Daniel scales leagues above both, there's UI Daniel with Warren's CQC would scale to there nly.

That does check out logically
and it would circle back to Johan scaling to that as well so Fair enough ig

 

[Aksh_sky]

Actually...uk what. Since HFBD Base Johan also has immeasurable stats and Yuseong scales to Mandeok via narritive and Mandeok scales to Jerry in speed in HFBD and Warren scaled to Jerry in base so using 1A scaling, Warren should receive a 3x and UI Daniel should receive a 3x over that.

I'll not change the arg but js add it in for consistency and safety.

 

[WindyAttack]

Actually...uk what. Since HFBD Base Johan also has immeasurable stats and Yuseong scales to Mandeok via narritive and Mandeok scales to Jerry in speed in HFBD and Warren scaled to Jerry in base so using 1A scaling, Warren should receive a 3x and UI Daniel should receive a 3x over that.

I'll not change the arg but js add it in for consistency and safety.

HFBD Base Johan is nowhere stated have that

 

[Aksh_sky]

HFBD Base Johan is nowhere stated have that

FYI that peeking card got upgraded after Shooyun first met Daniel and in here it's clearly showing immeasurable while in Daniel's case it was just 'too high' because of low level peeking card. Cuz there's a card that upgraded all Shootun's card after meeting Daniel for the first time and before Johan was first shown.

This Johan was before HFBD and he didn't knew CQC yet + his eyesight is relatively better so it's basically the Johan from the summit meeting arc.

 

[Aksh_sky]

Gun is explicitly established as a training genius with Charles himself says Gun is always training and getting stronger, a stated trait about continuous improvement, not just an unknown time skip. So the burden is on you to prove he didn't grow stronger, not on us to prove he did. Using HFG Gun as a stand-in for HFBD Gun's performance isn't valid unless you can show they're the same power level, and "no explicit new feat shown" doesn't clear that bar for a character whose whole thing is passive, ongoing growth.

The amount he got stronger is unquanfiable so the burden is on you that he got noticably stronger than his HFBD version.

No disagreement with the conclusion, since I already have Gun >= CQC Johan through my comment above. So tagging Gun naturally carries them along regardless. That just needs to be attributed to that reasoning, not folded in as support for the UI Copy > CQC argument

Ic

 

[CatLover313]

The amount he got stronger is unquanfiable so the burden is on you that he got noticably stronger than his HFBD version.

No… that’s why we have different keys for versions of characters even if they’re the same tier. If a character is stated to continuously be stronger and shows something they haven’t done, then we’d add an ability to that key (though the training genius and continuously training thing wasn’t said till HFG so there was no reason to split the keys till then). We just don’t do that with Guns profile because indexing each instance of his would be a pain, without much difference in terms of indexing, and hope people have enough thinking to not attribute past showings to present versions.

 

[WindyAttack]

FYI that peeking card got upgraded after Shooyun first met Daniel and in here it's clearly showing immeasurable while in Daniel's case it was just 'too high' because of low level peeking card. Cuz there's a card that upgraded all Shootun's card after meeting Daniel for the first time and before Johan was first shown.

This Johan was before HFBD and he didn't knew CQC yet + his eyesight is relatively better so it's basically the Johan from the summit meeting arc.

A better translation would be evaluation unsuccessful and that can mean many different things

And even in this case it can be argued that Pee at You card was not under cards chapters boost here that's why it was shown like this

 

[Aksh_sky]

A better translation would be evaluation unsuccessful and that can mean many different things

Literally written immeasurable in webtoons

 

[Aksh_sky]

And even in this case it can be argued that Pee at You card was not under cards chapters boost here that's why it was shown like this

"Pee at you"