Abstract existence type 2 removal

[God243]

"Abstract Existence (Type 2): Shipgirls are the physical manifestation of human will, along with their emotions, feeling, thoughts, and imaginations. Stated to be conceptual existence"
First of all
"Type 2: Embodies an abstraction, and can be resurrected or regenerate indefinitely thanks to it. Destroying the abstraction is required to permanently kill those characters, but they can still be affected without directly altering it."
The shipgirl or the warship dont embodies anything bc of these.

Here
"No... this is impossible! Unlike a warship, which is a concept that embodies clear human emotions..."
well what she is saying is that emotions are associated with the ship but it is not that ship embodies these and the wisdom cube needs something physical to work only the associated idea is not enough to manifest being
Here the full context

As I understand it, he's saying that he can get to us via the ship or something like that, I'm not sure how but somehow he's able to read thoughts about the object in question.
the cube associates the idea of girl with the conceptual existence of warship you can't really call this AE type 2
This Is not a real embodiment
Damn without the warship you cant bring the shipgirl to life
therefore clearly not an abstract existence type 2 or how abstract being do work.
Agree :deagonx
Disagree : Everything12

 

[God243]

Bump

 

[God243]

Bump

 

[CurrySenpai]

So for immo type 8, does the wisdom cube have a single use? It seems fine to use but just want clarification on that

 

[PrinceofPein]

Aside the proof of AE, there is nothing to go on for immo type 8.

 

[God243]

So for immo type 8, does the wisdom cube have a single use? It seems fine to use but just want clarification on that

the wisdom cube may have a different use but this has nothing to do with the creation of the shipgirl

Aside the proof of AE, there is nothing to go on for immo type 8.

well, I mean the wisdom cube create the being in the image of the concept, clearly no one here is embodies anything so where the proof of abstract existence type 2? and their existence Is reliant on the wisdom cube the shipgirl is not embodying the idea but this Is their wisdom cube

 

[CurrySenpai]

you'll have to rephrase your proof a bit more cause I am a bit confused by your wording.

I think I agree with abstract existence though

 

[PrinceofPein]

As long as their reason for existence is thoughts and emotions, they should qualify for AE

 

[CurrySenpai]

The thing is you'd need proof the wisdom cube sustains their existence and as long as it exists they come back to life. DO you have that?

 

[God243]

The thing is you'd need proof the wisdom cube sustains their existence and as long as it exists they come back to life. DO you have that?

Well if you dont believe this i think a limited Immortality type 8 will be fine

 

[PrinceofPein]

It will just be AE, and the justification can have something to do with the wisdom cube

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I find it difficult to understand what you mean, OP, so I can't help much here.

The evidence quoted in the OP does not on its own suggest Immo Type 8, just that they need it to manifest as humans rather than ships. Nothing suggests they could return to life with the Wisdom Cube technology.

I don't even know if I'd support Abstract Existence. The feat seems to be that these cubes pull from the human consciousness to decide on a new form for the ship. But this doesn't make it Abstract, at the most basic interpretation it would just mean the cube can read minds and creates a form in response to that input.

 

[God243]

I find it difficult to understand what you mean, OP, so I can't help much here.

The evidence quoted in the OP does not on its own suggest Immo Type 8, just that they need it to manifest as humans rather than ships. Nothing suggests they could return to life with the Wisdom Cube technology.

I don't even know if I'd support Abstract Existence. The feat seems to be that these cubes pull from the human consciousness to decide on a new form for the ship. But this doesn't make it Abstract, at the most basic interpretation it would just mean the cube can read minds and creates a form in response to that input.

"Theoretically, even if there is no "ship history" for a proposed ship, as long as enough design drawings and human knowledge of them are collected, they can be materialized, meow!"
i.e. anyone could say "if the cube reads enough belief it will to manifest the concept.
I don't know how abstract existence was accepted tbh.

 

[Robo432343]

All OP did was just copy paste the abstract existence and immortality page without explaining why they shouldn't have AE

im going to copy paste this
There are many statements that support ships in Azur Lane being conceptual entities, although the best supporting evidence are the statements that derive from Akashi. She's one of the smartest characters in the series and as such, her words should hold a high degree of truth to them, only being surpassed by The Sirens, aka the creators of The Wisdom Cubes

The statements come from Akashi's research logs, which goes more in-depth about Ships

“

From "Fune" to "Human" ... The basis of the realization of "Mental Cube" is the set of feelings, emotions, and images of a certain thing by an unspecified number of people, that is, "thought body".

„

“

Therefore, even if there is no "Kanreki", it should be possible to realize it with a large amount of blueprints and human recognition!

„

So what this basically is telling us is that Ships in Azur Lane are the realization of feelings, emotions and images. They are formed when a number of people give form to them through these things. To put it simple, they are formed out of human cognition and thoughts

What also is told to us is that ships can also form themselves into being when a "large amount" of people recognize them. So what this means is that Ships are reliant on human cognition and thus would have Immortality (Type 8)

“

For ships to be able to manifest as humans ... the Wisdom Cube allows the collections of various feelings, emotions, and images from an unspecified number of people to take on a physical form ... in other words, a "collective body, "nya.

„

“

In theory, even if there was a ship that never existed, as long as peoples' beliefs in their form and function were strong enough, we would be able to manifest them as well, nya!

„

In the English Version of this, it's further specified that Ships are also incorporel and naturally lack a physical form. So this adds credence to them being conceptual in nature and not just born directly of concepts (by VBW standards, this would make them Type 2 abstracts). Even if a Ship never existed, such as ships that were scrapped or destroyed before they had any real history, can manifest into existence with human cognition giving them form

It should be noted that the anime goes with all three versions of Azur Lane and compiles them, so one translation of Azur Lane isn't exactly non-cannon persay and incorporates elements of all three...Speaking of the anime

The Anime also adds credence to this idea as well. It directly cites them as manifestions of human will and this aligns with what was said above. So not only does the games agree with this notion, it's a consistent thing across mediums as well.

Although let's return back to the game at hand. Outside of Akashi, we have many other statements of ships being conceptual beings. Namely from many factions such as The Sakura Empire. These statements come from Dreamwaker's Butterfly

“

Converted Yamato-class hull, armored aircraft carrier Shinano. You were built to represent the hope of the Sakura Empire, but your actual performance...

„

“

The manifestation of humanity's dreams and hopes, the Wisdom Cube... But there are special ones among them.

„

“

I am a weapon... the embodiment of humanity's thoughts, the wishes for which they fight.

„

These statements come from Shinano, whom of which is also rather reliable and also with how consistent these statements are, I doubt she'd be wrong anyways. That aside, these statements further affirm the notion that ships are representations of human cognition and form into existence through human feelings, emotions and images. Here it specified it's relative to whatever nation they originate from, so Enterprise for example, would be reliant on The United State's own cognition.
Ships in Azur Lane are conceptual in nature and they all are embodiments of humanity's feelings, hopes, dreams, emotions and images. In essence, a Ship in Azur Lane is incorporeal and manifests a physical form through human cognition being accumulated. In addition to this, Ships possess Immortality of both Type 1 & 8, as they are unable to age and are reliant on said human cognition. Akashi even elaborates and say so long there is human cognition and "blueprints" a ship can manifest and with those things truly around, a Ship can't be killed for good. So yeah, pretty neat stuff

Hard disagree with OP

 

[God243]

All OP did was just copy paste the abstract existence and immortality page without explaining why they shouldn't have AE

im going to copy paste this
There are many statements that support ships in Azur Lane being conceptual entities, although the best supporting evidence are the statements that derive from Akashi. She's one of the smartest characters in the series and as such, her words should hold a high degree of truth to them, only being surpassed by The Sirens, aka the creators of The Wisdom Cubes

The statements come from Akashi's research logs, which goes more in-depth about Ships

“

From "Fune" to "Human" ... The basis of the realization of "Mental Cube" is the set of feelings, emotions, and images of a certain thing by an unspecified number of people, that is, "thought body".

„

“

Therefore, even if there is no "Kanreki", it should be possible to realize it with a large amount of blueprints and human recognition!

„

So what this basically is telling us is that Ships in Azur Lane are the realization of feelings, emotions and images. They are formed when a number of people give form to them through these things. To put it simple, they are formed out of human cognition and thoughts

What also is told to us is that ships can also form themselves into being when a "large amount" of people recognize them. So what this means is that Ships are reliant on human cognition and thus would have Immortality (Type 8)

“

For ships to be able to manifest as humans ... the Wisdom Cube allows the collections of various feelings, emotions, and images from an unspecified number of people to take on a physical form ... in other words, a "collective body, "nya.

„

“

In theory, even if there was a ship that never existed, as long as peoples' beliefs in their form and function were strong enough, we would be able to manifest them as well, nya!

„

In the English Version of this, it's further specified that Ships are also incorporel and naturally lack a physical form. So this adds credence to them being conceptual in nature and not just born directly of concepts (by VBW standards, this would make them Type 2 abstracts). Even if a Ship never existed, such as ships that were scrapped or destroyed before they had any real history, can manifest into existence with human cognition giving them form

It should be noted that the anime goes with all three versions of Azur Lane and compiles them, so one translation of Azur Lane isn't exactly non-cannon persay and incorporates elements of all three...Speaking of the anime

The Anime also adds credence to this idea as well. It directly cites them as manifestions of human will and this aligns with what was said above. So not only does the games agree with this notion, it's a consistent thing across mediums as well.

Although let's return back to the game at hand. Outside of Akashi, we have many other statements of ships being conceptual beings. Namely from many factions such as The Sakura Empire. These statements come from Dreamwaker's Butterfly

“

Converted Yamato-class hull, armored aircraft carrier Shinano. You were built to represent the hope of the Sakura Empire, but your actual performance...

„

“

The manifestation of humanity's dreams and hopes, the Wisdom Cube... But there are special ones among them.

„

“

I am a weapon... the embodiment of humanity's thoughts, the wishes for which they fight.

„

These statements come from Shinano, whom of which is also rather reliable and also with how consistent these statements are, I doubt she'd be wrong anyways. That aside, these statements further affirm the notion that ships are representations of human cognition and form into existence through human feelings, emotions and images. Here it specified it's relative to whatever nation they originate from, so Enterprise for example, would be reliant on The United State's own cognition.
Ships in Azur Lane are conceptual in nature and they all are embodiments of humanity's feelings, hopes, dreams, emotions and images. In essence, a Ship in Azur Lane is incorporeal and manifests a physical form through human cognition being accumulated. In addition to this, Ships possess Immortality of both Type 1 & 8, as they are unable to age and are reliant on said human cognition. Akashi even elaborates and say so long there is human cognition and "blueprints" a ship can manifest and with those things truly around, a Ship can't be killed for good. So yeah, pretty neat stuff

Dont copy paste from Omniversal wiki pls 2A shipgirl abstract existence type 1 shipgirl tf? Is he trolling or what?
First part Is a big no
.
"Telling us" What that the wisdom cube is taking informations and reading what humans think of these ships and giving them a physical body? Blueprints shipgirls then? They dont have Humanity emotions but them are still manifested so my opinion Is more right than your the shipgirl Is based on history and what humans think of these ships damn this is basic logic.
Anime Is not canon no matter thing .and this is just philosophical language why the hell are you taking this so seriously?.
“ Converted Yamato-class hull, armored aircraft carrier Shinano. You were built to represent the hope of the Sakura Empire, but your actual performance... „
“ The manifestation of humanity's dreams and hopes, the Wisdom Cube... But there are special ones among them. „
“ I am a weapon... the embodiment of humanity's thoughts, the wishes for which they fight".
again simply sentimental language .
were built to represent the hope of the Sakura "Empire, but your actual performance...
were built to represent the hope of the Sakura Empire".
Do i have to debunk this seriously?

 

[Robo432343]

Back then this scan was rejected because it kinda vague and non-specific, however now it is valid with the new information regarding shipgirl existence, as Dr.Anzeel, who is shipgirl creator, directly stated shipgirls are conceptual existence and they embodies human emotion which is abstract in nature, exactly confirm the first scan where Akashi stated about shipgirl's nature, in the same scan Dr.Aoste directly stated KAN-SEN (Shipgirl) draw information from the Wisdom Cube and are embodied as individuals with personalities based upon the concepts and emotions imprinted in their hull data. Also this scan from anime stated shipgirls are the physical manifestation of human will

Their weapon also stated to be conceptual which allow them to totally overwhelm and destroy modern conventional warship despite their rigging is just human-sized, always allow them to come out on top when it come to these confrontations. Shipgirl's attacks can damage other Shipgirls down to their Wisdom Cube which in turn damage data & informations that formed Shipgirls' existence and their hull/rigging, these damages can only be fixed by using the power of Wisdom Cube which contains data, informations and concepts composing Shipgirl existence and their hull/rigging. They themselves also an existence formed entirely and powered by he Wisdom Cube

Immo 8 and AE at the same time makes sence

• Immortality (Type 1 & 8) and abstract existence type 2: Ships never age and are reliant on the perception of humanity, with human thought sustaining the existence of ships, including across all variables. It's stated that ships can "fight forever, for all of time"

disagree FRA

 

[God243]

Back then this scan was rejected because it kinda vague and non-specific, however now it is valid with the new information regarding shipgirl existence, as Dr.Anzeel, who is shipgirl creator, directly stated shipgirls are conceptual existence and they embodies human emotion which is abstract in nature, exactly confirm the first scan where Akashi stated about shipgirl's nature, in the same scan Dr.Aoste directly stated KAN-SEN (Shipgirl) draw information from the Wisdom Cube and are embodied as individuals with personalities based upon the concepts and emotions imprinted in their hull data. Also this scan from anime stated shipgirls are the physical manifestation of human will

Their weapon also stated to be conceptual which allow them to totally overwhelm and destroy modern conventional warship despite their rigging is just human-sized, always allow them to come out on top when it come to these confrontations. Shipgirl's attacks can damage other Shipgirls down to their Wisdom Cube which in turn damage data & informations that formed Shipgirls' existence and their hull/rigging, these damages can only be fixed by using the power of Wisdom Cube which contains data, informations and concepts composing Shipgirl existence and their hull/rigging. They themselves also an existence formed entirely and powered by he Wisdom Cube

Immo 8 and AE at the same time makes sence

• Immortality (Type 1 & 8) and abstract existence type 2: Ships never age and are reliant on the perception of humanity, with human thought sustaining the existence of ships, including across all variables. It's stated that ships can "fight forever, for all of time"

disagree FRA

Never said conceptual existence in chinese translation

 

[Robo432343]

this is the real translation

disagree

your own scan even talks about how they are conceptual

 

[Everything12]

Disagree with the OP, this is just the Abstract Existence Type 2 which was previously accepted for valid reasons. Ones that no, you haven't sufficiently debunked.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

There was a discussion about this even before AE type 2 was added for them

and due to their bodies requiring human intervention to craft physical bodies of them using wisdom cubes and all
they cannot have type 8 immortality because type 8 requires one to automatically revive themselves by the object that grants them type 8

AE type 2 still works

 

[God243]

Disagree with the OP, this is just the Abstract Existence Type 2 which was previously accepted for valid reasons. Ones that no, you haven't sufficiently debunked.

if they need the wisdom cube how can it be abstract existence type 2? they were literally created artificially here no one is embodying anything if this Is this Is not enough to get abstract existence type 2
guys I honestly don't know how this can be abstract existence type 2 when they were created artificially it goes against any logic.
they are simply based on history and human cognition here Humanity cognition only serves to bring this information to life bc the shipgirl Is a living being but this Is not his soul this the reality lens that make them real or something like that.
Edit:With the power of Wisdom Cube technology, the Reality Lens can materialize the images of people in a form similar to lucid dreams."

 

[Robo432343]

where is the scan that says, "shipgirls are created artificially"

you are trying to trick us by using a bunch of scans that talks about something else entirely to people who have no knowledge of the verse

 

[God243]

where is the scan that says, "shipgirls are created artificially"

you are trying to trick us by using a bunch of scans that talks about something else entirely to people who have no knowledge of the verse

Read what Mr. Bambu said to see what I mean

 

[GarrixianXD]

Disagree FRA

 

[Polandballczechball]

didn't this guy already try to get rid of Azur Lane's ae2 once and miserably failed or am I thinking of someone else

Damn I can't view this guy's profile

 

[Polandballczechball]

I swear this feels familiar to another post yet I can't find it

 

[Deagonx]

So what this basically is telling us is that Ships in Azur Lane are the realization of feelings, emotions and images. They are formed when a number of people give form to them through these things. To put it simple, they are formed out of human cognition and thoughts

I can't say that I agree based on these scans, but the OP didn't do a great job communicating this.

I've combed over the information in Azur Lane about shipgirls and wisdom cubes, and it seems more that wisdom cubes are energy sources that contain data for the shipgirls that acts as a kind of "blueprint" based on mankind's collective thoughts and memories of a ship. I understand why this is being thought of as AE2 but I don't think it holds up based on our requirements.

You don't need to destroy the abstract collection of memories of mankind to destroy a shipgirl, they quite literally are physical ships. The Wisdom Cubes that create them are also physical and store data, and seem to be capable of being destroyed physically.

| [S:Constellation] Wisdom Cubes are a scientific miracle, developed with all of humanity's scientific knowledge sometime after the Azur Lane was established.
| [S:Constellation] In our war against the Sirens, they also were the tipping point for things to swing in humanity's favor.
| [S:Constellation] We KAN-SEN are born from Cubes, and we use their power to fight the Sirens.
| [S:Constellation] I believe our world's governments possess the knowledge of how to make Cubes, but their production requires an exceedingly rare mineral.
| [S:Constellation] As a result, only a small limited number of them have been made.

| [S:Akashi] For ships to be able to manifest as humans... the Wisdom Cube allows the collections of various feelings, emotions, and images from an unspecified number of people to take on a physical form... in other words, a "collective body," nya.

| [S:Arkhangelsk] Don't you think it's astonishing how things once thought impossible were made possible thanks to Cube technology? Including warming the waters around an entire port.
| [S:Arkhangelsk] All that energy, generated by a device small enough to fit in the palm of your hand. I can't even imagine a world without Cubes.

[] The prevailing view of Wisdom Cubes, the very core of the shipgirls' existence, is that they can give form to the thoughts and feelings of humans.
| [] However, the exact nature of this process is not well understood. Research into this matter is shrouded in mystery, and almost always kept strictly confidential.
| [] I was quite surprised when TB invited me to be a part of this experiment. Apparently, my resonance with Wisdom Cubes made me an ideal candidate.

| [S:Kirov] I've been thinking about this, Comrade. What kind of existence is a blueprint ship supposed to be?
| [S:Kirov] We have always thought that a ship's foundational hull is inseparable from its history. In essence, this history is supposed to be a sum of humanity's perceptions and notions about the ship.
| [S:Kirov] A hull is widely considered a prerequisite to a ship's construction, even for mass-produced ships. By extension, a history is a prerequisite.
| [S:Kirov] All this is to say, a shipgirl's history is her proof of existence. Even if she was only dreamed up in blueprints.
| [S:Sovetskaya Belorussiya] ...That's an interesting point. Soyuz, Rossiya, and I all fall under this category. We were just never given forms.
| [S:Sovetskaya Belorussiya] This is hardly a unique occurence and yet we've never been referred to as blueprint ships, whereas Freidrich has.
| [] Based on how rarely the term comes up, I think there are a small number of blueprint ships in existence.
| [S:Kirov] Yes, and this raises another question: What makes one a blueprint ship? Is it not something determined by the Wisdom Cubes that constitute our foundational hull?
| [S:Kirov] Through whatever means, the Wisdom Cubes already contain the data that makes us who we are. To build a ship, you must extract this information.
| [S:Kirov] But what if there is not enough information within the Wisdom Cubes to give form to a ship? What would happen if you "edited" another reality into the Wisdom Cubes?
| [] It's a lot to take in. If I understanding this right, Wisdom Cubes contain the "essence" of a shipgirl, and building them is the process of giving this essence a physical form, right? In contrast, blueprint ships...
| [] Are you saying that someone is capable of inserting their own "history" into Wisdom Cubes and manifesting them...?
| [S:Kirov] Who knows? This is just a theory of mine, but if it is true, what restrictions are there on the kinds of history you are able to edit into a Wisdom Cube?

| [S:Mikasa] Allow me to explain. Shinano, as you already may know, us shipgirls are born from the powers of the Wisdom Cube.
| [S:Mikasa] Humanity has been researching the Wisdom Cube since the previous war, but to little avail.
| [S:Mikasa] ...As for our rigging and gear, those are essentially byproducts made from the energy given off by Wisdom Cubes.
| [S:Nagato] Much of the military use of Wisdom Cubes followed the same process.
| [S:Mikasa] Indeed. In actuality... Us shipgirls are only a small part of the Wisdom Cubes' saga.
| [S:Nagato] What?! I've been kept in the dark on this entire matter?!
| [S:Mikasa] Don't be so shocked. There's much I haven't even talked about yet.
| [S:Mikasa] It is often said that Wisdom Cubes "embody the wishes of humanity," but nobody actually knows what that means.

| [S:Sovetsky Soyuz] It's... a new rigging...
| [S:Sovetsky Soyuz] This output, this ability... It's stronger than even cutting-edge riggings!
| [S:Sovetsky Soyuz] Did the crystal do this? That can't be. It's still there; it wasn't consumed... just like a Wisdom Cube.
| [S:Sovetsky Soyuz] If it didn't materialize it by converting energy and mass like a Wisdom Cube, then my rigging must've been created through that power alone.

So, the impression I get is that Wisdom Cubes are physical objects that contain massive amounts of energy, and they also contain data about ships that they can use to materialize shipgirls. However, I do not believe this literally represents an abstraction or AE Type 2 for a couple of reasons. First, this appears to be literally data stored in the cubes, and it can be edited by altering the cubes information or even made up when the cube doesn't have enough data. Second, this process involves physically converting them to energy and mass. Both the cube and the ship can be destroyed physically and are made up of physical objects.

I'd agree with the removal, on this basis.

 

[Robo432343]

didn't this guy already try to get rid of Azur Lane's ae2 once and miserably failed or am I thinking of someone else

yes you're right

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I disagree FRA

 

[God243]

I disagree FRA

why do you disagree after Deagonx debunked everything?just asking pretty sure this not ae type 2

 

[Dereck03]

why do you disagree after Deagonx debunked everything?just asking pretty sure this not ae type 2

You literally do not have the right to question the vote of the staff and much less in that way, no matter if their opinion does not agree with yours. Btw disagree with the OP, I find the counter arguments more feasible.

 

[God243]

You literally do not have the right to question the vote of the staff and much less in that way, no matter if their opinion does not agree with yours. Btw disagree with the OP, I find the counter arguments more feasible.

Ok bro

 

[Mr. Bambu]

He has the right to post "Why do you disagree". He doesn't have the right to not count the vote, for sure, but he can definitely question it. Blue names aren't barred from discussing or asking or whatever.