About versus matches regarding stomps or mismatches

[Johner2133451]

I got permission from @Theglassman12

There is a popular belief that the difference in tier like 2-c and l1c would automatically count the matchup as a stomp while ignoring abilities/haxes as wincons. I suggest to add a note in Stomp thread that difference in tiers doesn't make the matchup being invalid. As for example Sans vs Zeno and Uta vs Goku/Vegeta as both matches are counted as valid despite the sheer tier difference

Also for the term mismatch, it's popular term used when characters one shot each other (like via higher AP or hax) and the reason for many matches be closed. It shouldn't be used at all as the reasonings are poor like "the match is unfun if they just one shot each other" which purely relies on subjectivity (also that it was never mentioned at all in any vswiki website). This should also be noted in stomp thread

 

[Mr. Bambu]

We don't need to have a note saying this. This is demonstrably true based solely and entirely on what hax means as a phrase, and we have a whole page dedicated to elaborating on that. If someone is wrong we can't force them to read a note in the Stomp Thread page any more than we can force them to read the entire Hax page, I don't think this is an issue worth delving into months of bureaucratic discussion for- it just fattens a page.

 

[Johner2133451]

We don't need to have a note saying this. This is demonstrably true based solely and entirely on what hax means as a phrase, and we have a whole page dedicated to elaborating on that. If someone is wrong we can't force them to read a note in the Stomp Thread page any more than we can force them to read the entire Hax page, I don't think this is an issue worth delving into months of bureaucratic discussion for- it just fattens a page.

The problem many people are still persistent that higher tier = auto stomp despite repeated mentions that it doesn't. And what about regarding the term mismatch?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Debate them on that point, because doing so is wrong. If there's more nuance to it (a character lacks sufficient hax to realistically overcome a tier gap, or something like that), then that is indeed the Point of a discussion. It might just be a stomp.

We wouldn't close matches for being "unfun", it is against policy. Chariot's post there is inappropriate for any number of reasons but it's not grounds to create new policy to say "don't do this thing you were already not meant to do".

 

[Johner2133451]

Debate them on that point, because doing so is wrong. If there's more nuance to it (a character lacks sufficient hax to realistically overcome a tier gap, or something like that), then that is indeed the Point of a discussion. It might just be a stomp.

We wouldn't close matches for being "unfun", it is against policy. Chariot's post there is inappropriate for any number of reasons but it's not grounds to create new policy to say "don't do this thing you were already not meant to do".

Sure but if a person just repeatedly say "tier (-) vs tier (-) lol stomp" without ever looking indepth in their abilities/hax, should it warrant a warning? I have talked to @Agnaa that a case happened with a staff

Ok so should anyone who says "mismatch" like Chariot should get an informal warning then? Since closing a match where 2 characters one shotting each other is against wiki policy?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

We aren't going to punish people for using a phrase that has legitimate meaning. Chariot can't close matches.

 

[Johner2133451]

We aren't going to punish people for using a phrase that has legitimate meaning. Chariot can't close matches.

Well if the entire argument that it's a stomp because of tier, the phrasing would become nulified if they repeatedly ignore other attributes. At least we reach the conclusion regarding closing matches being "unfun" is against wiki policy

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Well if the entire argument that it's a stomp because of tier, the phrasing would become nulified if they repeatedly ignore other attributes. At least we reach the conclusion regarding closing matches being "unfun" is against wiki policy

You are misrepresenting why the match was closed, I don't know what to tell you. It wasn't closed for being "unfun". It can just... be a stomp.

 

[Johner2133451]

You are misrepresenting why the match was closed, I don't know what to tell you. It wasn't closed for being "unfun". It can just... be a stomp.

Not talking about that match specifically since I never tried to remake it

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Not talking about that match specifically since I never tried to remake it

Yes you are.

"the match is unfun if they just one shot each other"

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with Bambu. Some of this sounds better to talk about it in a private report to determine whether or not someone's actions are punishment worthy rather than propose some rewordings on are well established rules.

 

[KLOL506]

I don't think anything here is report-worthy or even warning-worthy, just a person being unaware of site standards.

Also this incident is well over 6 months old, why beat a dead horse.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Yes you are.

He is using that as an example of the type of comments he finds shouldn't justify "mismatches"

 

[Catzlaflame]

On the second point,

I think bambu’s point makes sense in that it seems repetitive to:

create new policy to say "don't do this thing you were already not meant to do".

But It does seem like the semantics of the “mismatch/stomp” dynamic are causing confusion. As op mentioned earlier, people do use it “sarcastically” a lot, and that could lead to confusion. For the record, I don’t think that occurred in the prior RVR, but I mean just in general.

My proposal would be to add First_Witch’s explanation to the Vsb Wiki Glossary.

Doesn’t congest the rules page while still establishing some form of official reference.
@LephyrTheRevanchist @Mr. Bambu

 

[Mr. Bambu]

On the second point,

I think bambu’s point makes sense in that it seems repetitive to:

But It does seem like the semantics of the “mismatch/stomp” dynamic are causing confusion. As op mentioned earlier, people do use it “sarcastically” a lot, and that could lead to confusion. For the record, I don’t think that occurred in the prior RVR, but I mean just in general.

My proposal would be to add First_Witch’s explanation to the Vsb Wiki Glossary.

Doesn’t congest the rules page while still establishing some form of official reference.
@LephyrTheRevanchist @Mr. Bambu

Yeah that seems fine.

 

[Antvasima]

My proposal would be to add First_Witch’s explanation to the Vsb Wiki Glossary.

Doesn’t congest the rules page while still establishing some form of official reference.

Please explain what you mean with "First Witch's explanation".

 

[Catzlaflame]

Please explain what you mean with "First Witch's explanation".

All-purpose request thread (New forum)

This isn't a place to argure, you are derailing. This was never a debate.

vsbattles.com

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. So the following then:

A mismatch is a match where fairness can't be established even if both characters technically have wincons. For example character A and B. A stomps B in 99% of any conceiveable way, but B has a method in which they could theoretically beat A, but its unfeasible, probably out of character and requires versus rules being bend to make it possible in the first place. Like A is planet level, B is street level but has like a oneshotting aura with the range of 5 meters that A doesn't resist. At any range beyond 5 meters, B would get stomped, but under 5 and suddenly B stomps. Technically both have wincons but its not fair regardless of how you bend the match

Its a fancy simplified way to say "Stomp match that isn't instantly obvious."

I also do not mind if a version of that with cleaned up wording is added to our glossary page.

VS Battles Glossary

This page will focus on providing some insight about commonly used terms here on the Vs Battles Wiki and on the external Vs Battles Wiki Forum. While some of these terms are exclusive to our platform, you may see some of these terms being used in other community-based discussion forums.

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[First_Witch]

My proposal would be to add First_Witch’s explanation to the Vsb Wiki Glossary.

Do I get royalties at least